European Union (Withdrawal Agreement) Bill

Lord Smith of Finsbury Excerpts

Report stage & Report stage (Hansard): House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting: House of Lords & Report: 1st sitting
Monday 20th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wigley]

My Lords, I will not repeat what I said in Committee, but I support the amendment. More than that, I want to ask the Minister whether he can give a firm assurance that if a reasonable deal can be reached in the negotiations—I realise that no Government can give the ultimate commitment until the ink is dry—it would be the Government’s ambition to make the maximum possible part of Erasmus+ available to young people in the United Kingdom and to welcome young people from other parts of Europe and the rest of the world to the United Kingdom under the auspices of Erasmus+. It would reassure the House if a fairly firm indicator could be given tonight, and it would give us some comfort as we move ahead.

[Lord Smith of Finsbury (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as Master of Pembroke College, Cambridge. I support the amendment for the principal reason that parliamentary oversight will be a constant reminder to the Government of the importance of participation in the Erasmus programme. Over its 30 years, Erasmus has helped some 3 million students across Europe in all. It is enormously valuable. For our students who have the opportunity to take part in exchanges across Europe, it enriches their education and fulfils their desire to have the best possible experience of life and the world.

One of the things that distresses me most about the Brexit process we have embarked upon is that it fundamentally undermines what I thought our country was all about: having an international spirit and opening our arms to the rest of the world. We are abandoning that. If our politics abandon it, please do not remove that spirit from our students—who are, after all, the hope for a better future than the one we are currently imposing on them.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, I want to address a few of the things said by the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, in his reply to last week’s debate on Erasmus in Committee.

First, he spent some time talking about the UK’s global programme. Great; let us have more such partnerships. But those partnerships are irrelevant to this debate for the simple reason that Erasmus does not affect those independent programmes in any way. Erasmus does not stop us having such partnerships, so I hope that the Minister does not go down that route again in his reply.

Secondly, perhaps the most worrying thing that the Minister said was that

“it is not realistic for the Government to commit ahead to participation in a programme yet to be defined.”

I agree with what my noble friend Lady Coussins and the noble Lord, Lord Smith, said: just on the basis of its proven record over 33 years, we can be 100% sure that the next iteration of Erasmus will also provide immense opportunities for British students. So why the doubt? Perhaps the Minister can tell us. He said:

“We do not need just an EU university scheme but a much wider one.”—[Official Report, 16/1/20; col. 872.]


That is fine, but does the Minister not believe that that is what we already have—and, indeed, that it can continue to expand on a global basis without losing Erasmus? Erasmus should be part of that global network.

Lastly, I stress again that it is the misconception of some that Erasmus is for richer students. As I said in the debate last week, former participants in the programme testify to how important Erasmus was for them as students from poorer backgrounds. It is clearly a great privilege to be an Erasmus student, but you do not have to be from a privileged background to be one.

In last week’s debate, the noble Duke, the Duke of Somerset, summed up perfectly what the loss of the programme would mean, saying that it would be a

“kick in the teeth for so many aspiring young people.”—[Official Report, 16/1/20; col. 870.]

I hope that the Minister can assure us that negotiations on Erasmus will be backed on our part by a serious intent to stay a member of a programme that opens up horizons for so many of our young people.