Defence: 2.5% GDP Spending Commitment

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 14th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. As he knows, we can say to the President of the United States that we will meet the cast-iron 2.5% commitment and will set that out in due course. We understand that European countries need to increase their defence spending; 23 of the NATO nations are now spending 2.5%, so that is a very real commitment. The American President will also be pleased to hear that this country is leading a carrier strike group into the Indo-Pacific—as we know, China is of particular interest to the incoming President as well as the current one. We will work with them to deliver that capability.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, there is already a bloody war being waged on the continent of Europe. Putin is waging war on us through cyberattacks and Litvinenko, the Skripals, et cetera. Does the Minister, for whom I have a great deal of respect, agree that 2.5% is not enough?

[Lord Coaker (Lab)]

The Government have made a commitment to 2.5%; the previous Government made a commitment to 2.5% by 2030. We will see what happens, but we commit to look at the 2.5% at a future fiscal event in the spring. We also want to ensure that we have the capability to meet the threats we face. Let us be clear about this: the UK is the leading nation in Europe, along with the United States and our European allies, standing up against Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. The message needs to come from this Chamber that this country will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes to deter Russian aggression.

Ukraine

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Friday 25th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I apologise to the House because it is very difficult to say anything original after about 20 speeches. What is nice about this debate is that there is nothing party political about it. I congratulate the Minister, who is currently not in his place, because I agree with almost everything, if not everything, he said. It was an excellent and very robust speech. I also congratulate my friend and former pupil, the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, on his speech, which covered much of what I wanted to say, and the noble Lord, Lord Spellar, on his excellent maiden speech, with which I also agreed on almost everything.

I will make several points that are not necessarily entirely related. We in the West need to realise that this is the most dangerous time of our lives since the 1962 Cuban missile crisis. There is a real danger of all-out war, which we must avoid if at all possible. We need to prepare the population, however, by warning the nation and getting everyone onside with this danger, as mentioned by the noble and gallant Lord, Lord Stirrup, the noble Lord, Lord Spellar, and my noble friend Lady Helic. We must prepare ourselves as a nation. We must fill our munition bunkers, which were emptied because we gave all the munitions to the Ukrainians; the noble Lord, Lord Spellar, mentioned that in relation to our industrial needs. We must allow Ukraine to fight, as Russia does, an all-out war, which includes letting them use any munitions we give them, including Storm Shadow, to attack Russia.

We must spend a huge amount more on defence and not pussyfoot around on 2.5%. We face a war situation, and the only way to deter war is to be prepared for it. I suggest that we probably need to double defence spending. Yesterday, the Defence Secretary, the right honourable John Healey, said that we are not prepared to fight a war at the moment. We of course do not want a shooting war between NATO and Russia—I have a personal, family reason for not wanting to see British soldiers killed in Ukraine—but Putin threatens a nuclear war. The aggressor threatens us, saying: if we escalate, we will have nuclear war. I am afraid that we need to call his bluff. He is the aggressor. Luckily, China will constrain him from using any nuclear weapons.

From another angle entirely, it worries me that the Americans do not seem to study history. Do they not know what happened with isolationism in the 1930s and where that led?

There was the BRICS meeting in Kazan only this week. South Africa and India, two nations that should have been at CHOGM, were there listening to Putin rather than listening to the Commonwealth meeting.

There is a so-called axis of evil, with Iran, North Korea, China and Russia. Iran and North Korea are already helping Russia in its fight. Luckily, China is now the senior member of this partnership. Previously, as those with knowledge of history will know, under Stalin, China got very miffed because Stalin used to try to bully the communist Chinese in the early 1950s.

The noble Lord, Lord Spellar, said that this is a 10-year war. However, I was sanctioned in 2015, as I think he was, because I said that Putin had an aggrand-isement policy in Crimea. I suggest that Putin has been attacking the West for more than 10 years. Litvinenko was murdered not two miles from here 18 years ago. Then, 16 years ago, Putin invaded Georgia, South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Last week, we had the warning —we should remember this—from Ken McCallum of MI5 that Putin intends to disrupt, and cause chaos in, our nation. This is war.

This is the most dangerous time of our lives, not just for us but for NATO and the West. The situation is getting worse. There is an urgency here. The noble Lord, Lord Robertson, for whom I have a great regard, is conducting a defence review—incidentally, I do not defend the defence policies of the previous Government. I wish him well, but we cannot wait very long; the West needs to act. If you go to Poland, the Baltic states or Finland, they will tell you that we need to act now, not in a year or two. If we want to keep peace, prosperity and security in Europe, we must see the West defeat Putin.

King’s Speech

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Thursday 25th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, five minutes is too a short a time to develop a proper argument, but I will abide by the Chief Whip’s strictures and keep to it.

I say to the Government Front Bench—I am sure they know it—that if participation becomes a criterion for staying in the House of Lords, I fear they will hear more people like me wittering on pointlessly, because that is what will have to happen.

I want to make three points in my brief time. I visited Gaza in 2007 and we had lunch at UNRWA. Since then, we have had another 17 years of Hamas terrorist control of Gaza. It is impossible in Gaza to be an independent voice; you will not survive. Now that we have established that we are giving money again to UNRWA, can the Government tell us how they will ensure that the aid is delivered to the needy and the injured in Gaza and not stolen by Hamas fighters, like the aid that was sent in the past and which has built a tunnel system larger than the London Underground?

I was delighted to hear the noble Baroness, Lady Anderson, reaffirm support for Israel. It is essential. Israel is certainly not perfect; we know that. The situation in Gaza is absolutely ghastly, but Hamas can end the conflict tomorrow by releasing the hostages and laying down its weapons, with the guilty personnel from 7 October going off to join their leadership in luxury hotels in the Gulf. We must also always be aware, as was mentioned in the Labour manifesto, of the malign influence of Iran.

My second point is about Ukraine. Again, support is not negotiable, as the Minister said in her introduction, but there is huge uncertainty around the US elections—the noble Lord, Lord Moore, spoke of that much better than I can. The war in Ukraine is existential for western values and prosperity. I say to the Government that we should allow—I know that the previous Government did not—Storm Shadow to be used at any target in Russia and pay attention to Putin’s threats. If Putin wins, his victory will be much more expensive for us than giving further Storm Shadow missiles to Ukraine.

That brings me to my third point, on the defence review, which I welcome. I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, for whom I have great respect, as I do John Healey and the Ministers on the Front Bench. They are all respected. As noble Lords may know, I was always a critic of Conservative defence policy, so I see a ray of hope in the catastrophe that took place on 4 July in this defence review. We need new weaponry. We need to use new technology; we need drones and AI—the vital helpers to help us punch above our weight against superior numbers, as was mentioned by the Chief of the General Staff only this week.

However, numbers still matter, as Ukraine and Russia will testify, with the ghastly, dirty war going on in eastern Ukraine. Older weapon systems, such as tanks, also still matter. In 1991, I spoke to the then Defence Secretary and said, “The tank will be seen as the horse of the late 20th century”, which I still stand by. Horses also have utility—okay, not that much perhaps—but tanks certainly do if you are standing on the ground with just a rifle.

The Chief of the General Staff, General Sir Roly Walker, said that we need to be ready to fight a major war in three years, and that is supported by the Chief of the Defence Staff. Of course, it all comes back to money. I say now that 2.5% of GDP is not nearly enough. During the Cold War, which was a war but was cold—we are now seeing a hot war in Ukraine—generally when we faced a threat we spent 5% or 6% of GDP. All our interests, values and prosperity are at risk. If the Labour Government really believe that defence of the realm is the first duty of government, which in essence is what they say in the manifesto, we need to prioritise spending on defence. More spending now will be less expensive than not spending money now, as we will discover, because we must deter our enemies.

I congratulate the new Ministers in the House of Lords, although I am not terribly pleased to see them there, and I wish the noble Lord, Lord Robertson, who has just come into his place, John Healey and the Ministers here well in their task of the defence review. Their task is vital. We must prioritise defence of the realm.