Armed Forces

Lord Robathan Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

The hon. Gentleman said that those comments came from the Treasury, but I gently point out to him that the person who actually made them is a member of his part of the coalition.

[Sir Bob Russell]

The Minister is absolutely right, but of course the briefing was given by Treasury officials. I do not think that the Defence Minister is saying that he is never briefed by his officials. If that is the case, it is a very worrying situation.

With regard to the armed forces covenant, the Defence Committee, of which I am a member, recently conducted an inquiry into education for the children of service personnel. There is a conflict between the armed forces covenant and the Education Act, both of which are laws of this country, and that conflict needs to be addressed. Other conflicts are emerging already between the armed forces covenant and the definition of social housing for single former military personnel. I think that there has to be a ruling on that, because some local authorities are interpreting it differently from what the armed forces covenant means. I am concerned that the community covenant might, in some cases, be paying lip service, rather than being a reality. We need to look at that.

We also need to look again at serving Commonwealth soldiers being obliged to leave compulsorily on health grounds and then not being treated by the armed forces covenant. Again, the covenant is not being fair in the way the financial packages for voluntary redundancies are being looked at. I have a constituent who accepted the terms of redundancy based on his years of service, only to have the financial package withdrawn after he agreed to leave. I think that case might end up in the courts, so I will leave it there.

The armed forces covenant has a long way to go with regard to the condition of Army family housing. The Government have been able to find money to upgrade former military housing for use by civilian families, which I support, but they claim that they do not have the money to upgrade Army housing. I recognise that every pound of public money spent on those houses boosts their value for Annington Homes—in a shameful act, the last Conservative Government privatised the houses and in 13 years the last Labour Government failed to deal with the issue, although I raised it on many occasions.

Will the Ministry of Defence look at how the pay and dine operation works in practice? A car will run only if it has petrol in the tank; our soldiers can operate at full capacity only if they eat the right amount of food at the right times and in the right quantities.

Having praised those in uniform, I want also to praise the civilian work force, without whom our armed forces could not operate. I include the Defence Support Group, the MOD police who under successive Governments have taken a massive cut; in my constituency, 33 MOD police officers have been reduced to zero. I should also mention other guard services, the MOD fire service and all the support staff—not forgetting Garrison FM, which operates in the principal garrison towns of this country. I wish to broaden the wider military family and include the cadet forces.

The reduction in the size of the Army is not good news. I repeat what I said to the Prime Minister:

“On the Prime Minister’s watch, the Army will reduce to its smallest size since 1750 and will be half the size it was at the time of the Falklands war. Does he accept that history is not kind to Prime Ministers who are perceived to have left our country without a strong defence capability?”—[Official Report, 11 July 2012; Vol. 548, c. 309.]

I do not think that trying to plug the gaps of a smaller regular force with reservists is the way forward. I support reservists, of course I do—we have fantastic Territorial Army people in my constituency. However, cutting the Regular Army and trying to plug the gap with Army reservists is not the solution. The move is being driven by the Treasury. Those at Treasury questions today will know the response to my question about how many civilian employees at HM Treasury had volunteered to join the Army reservists since requests for civilians were made in January this year: zero.

Armed Forces day in my constituency was launched yesterday in the town hall, with the mayor and garrison commander in attendance. The town and garrison have excellent joint facilities, including the athletics track and the Phoenix club house, which I opened earlier this month.

I end by praising the last Government for providing the new Merville barracks, the best in the country, and welcoming the current Government’s proposals for the first world war commemorations, which will commence in August next year.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister for the Armed Forces (Mr Andrew Robathan)]

I am pretty sure that I do not have to, but I will anyway, declare that I am in receipt of a service pension so I have an interest in this debate.

I will not be able to respond to all the points that have been raised today, but I will try. I know that hon. Members on both sides of the House will not be hesitant in sending me letters if they want a particular point answered to which I have not been able to respond.

Today’s debate has been remarkably consensual, which I welcome. It has demonstrated that Members of the House care passionately about supporting our service personnel. We are fortunate to be able to rely on the men and women of our armed forces, for whom as Minister for the Armed Forces I have some responsibility. It is a much over-used word, but it is a real privilege to have that responsibility and to work with members of our armed forces. I know that the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) has done that, as well as others in the House.

The dedication of our armed forces to maintaining our security and protecting our interests and values means that Britain is able to act as a force for good in the world, defending our national interests and our international obligations. We are all proud of what they do.

I was in Scotland this morning visiting one of our deterrent submarines and the submarine service on the Clyde, and it was extremely impressive and very professional. I know that other hon. Members will have seen that as well. The role of the armed forces both in the deterrent and elsewhere is difficult and sometimes dangerous. I pay tribute to their bravery and professionalism, which represent the very best qualities our nation has to offer. We owe them and the families who support them an enormous debt of gratitude. That is why the Government are committed to supporting the success of Armed Forces day, which was indeed introduced by the previous Government. It allows the public to express their appreciation of those who have served their country.

I was going to say that the right hon. Member for East Ranfrewshire, sorry Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy)—

[Mr Murphy]

It is not that hard to say.

[Mr Robathan]

Sorry, it is for me. I was going to say that he was better at running a marathon than—but then he was very consensual, so I won’t. I pay tribute to his time for the marathon. As he knows, I set him a target, which he beat very easily. Well done.

I am afraid that the hon. Member for Sheffield, Heeley (Meg Munn) will have to wait for the White Paper for a decision about moving 38 Signal Regiment from Sheffield. I would like to have heard more discussion from my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Sir Gerald Howarth) about the Supreme Court judgment last week on extending human rights to the battlefield. It is a subject on which Members from both sides of the House may wish to comment. I know that we will be looking carefully at that judgment, and that we have some concerns.

I was sorry to hear about the constituent of the hon. Member for Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland (Tom Blenkinsop). I understand that my right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Ministry of Defence, the right hon. Member for Rayleigh and Wickford (Mr Francois), wrote to him only yesterday and we do not believe that this is a general problem. Leaving aside the armed forces and reservists, I thought that the Opposition had accepted that we need to make serious savings, as we have been doing over the past three years, for all the reasons that he understands. On this day the newspapers have published the letter from the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne) which says that there is no money.

[Tom Blenkinsop]

The Government’s policy clearly states that armed forces personnel families are supposed to be exempt but, after three months, it is clear that they are not and that councils throughout the country are interpreting the policy in such a way that only reservists count, not permanent members of the armed forces.

[Mr Robathan]

As I said, my right hon. Friend the Minister has written to the hon. Gentleman. They should have further discussions, because my right hon. Friend knows the details, but I fear that I do not.

My hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell) made a wide-ranging speech in which he stood up for Colly, as soldiers used to call Colchester, although I think that they were referring particularly to the military corrective training centre. He also talked about bands. From the Government’s point of view, bands are an integral part of the Army, and indeed of the Royal Marines and the Royal Air Force. Anyone who has ever marched to a band knows how stirring that is. I remember Academy Sergeant Major Huggins at the Royal Military Academy Sandhurst saying, “If the hairs on the back of your neck don’t prickle when you hear a military band, you are in the wrong business.” On the Ministry of Defence police, I saw them yesterday at Coulport. They do a good job there and I pay tribute to them on my hon. Friend’s behalf.

The hon. Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) talked about the Royal Mercian and Lancastrian Yeomanry. I fear that I cannot pre-empt the White Paper, but I certainly would not want any damage to be done to the recruitment of reservists in Dudley.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) talked about the proud and close relationship between the Navy and her constituency. Indeed, my undistinguished service career began at the admiralty interview board in Gosport. I thought that “Up something or other creek without a paddle” was from Falstaff, but my excellent officials tell me that I am wrong, although I am still going to check it all the same.

The hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) does excellent work with the RAF all-party group. It will astonish many to know that I got on so well with Bomber Command that I was made an honorary member of it, so I might just drop in for a quick chat later. My right hon. Friend the Minister tells me that she will certainly receive a reply to her specific question before the summer recess.

My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) talked about the service complaints commissioner. I am afraid that she will have to discuss that further with my right hon. Friend, but I understand that we are looking at the matter closely.

I was glad to hear the support of the hon. Member for Stalybridge and Hyde (Jonathan Reynolds) for the armed forces. My hon. and gallant Friend the Member for Basildon and Billericay (Mr Baron) and I have not dissimilar backgrounds. No Defence Minister wishes to see cuts to the armed forces or defence spending, but I pay tribute to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for coherently explaining the continued need to maintain defence spending throughout the current review. I think that he has done a pretty good job, and the story has been in the newspapers. On my hon. and gallant Friend’s point about reservists, he will also have to wait for the White Paper.

I pay tribute to the hon. and gallant Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) for his service in the Ulster Defence Regiment during difficult times in the Province. He stood up for Northern Ireland, and he was absolutely right that Northern Ireland makes a great contribution—indeed, a disproportionate contribution—to our armed forces.

I share the respect of my hon. Friend the Member for Nuneaton (Mr Jones) for service charities, which do fantastic work. We will ensure that someone gets up to see them, but that might be my right hon. Friend the Minister of State. My advice to my hon. Friend is that a good start would be to set up a military wives’ choir, and I am sure that military husbands and the non-military could be involved.

The hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) was rather cut off in full flow, but I agree with him about the ARRC. I shall shortly be visiting it and its commander, James Bucknall, who is also colonel of the Coldstream Guards, as I am sure that that hon. Members know. On hearing about Charles Irving, I feared that the lieutenant-general whom he speared with a bayonet was British, rather than German. The hon. Member for North Durham and I have sparred across the Dispatch Box for more than three years, but his speech was the most consensual that I have ever heard him make.

I am extremely proud of our armed forces, as I know that we all are, but I am also proud of the work that the Government have done to help to improve the support that we give them. In a consensual manner, let me say that we have built somewhat on work that was done previously. We owe our armed forces our very best efforts, because that is what they give us day in, day out, wherever they are stationed and whatever the conditions. As my right hon. Friend the Minister said in his opening speech, the first duty of Government is the defence of the realm, and we must never forget, and we must thank our armed forces for, the service that they provide in fulfilling that duty on behalf of everyone in the House and the country.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House celebrates and commemorates the contribution of Her Majesty’s Armed Forces and their families, in particular those currently serving overseas; recognises the important introduction of Armed Forces Day in 2006 and urges the nation to come together and champion the Services’ achievements throughout the decades; pays tribute to the UK’s Forces, their families and the charities who do so much to support them; recognises the enormous contribution of the staff who support the UK’s Forces from within Government and the workforces in industry who supply them with world-class equipment; urges all those in public life to seek additional ways to support the Armed Forces Covenant; urges the Government, local authorities, business and charities to deliver the best possible post-service support; and considers the principles of the Armed Forces Covenant essential to uphold, through public policy, the provision of welfare and frontline support.