ECO4 and Insulation Schemes

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Wednesday 29th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I gather from looking at the press release more than the original Statement that 65,000 applications will be checked through Ofgem procedures. Today I met someone who is affected by this, and I want to emphasise just the worry that the 65,000 or whatever will have over the future of their houses, their saleability, their onward renting or the damages to landlords. This is a real concern.

How many of the 39 companies that the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, mentioned, were part of the TrustMark scheme? That scheme, which I believe all those contractors should have been a part of, is described as “Government Endorsed Quality”. What really worries me regarding future schemes—I know there is a big ambition on the part of this Government to carry on retrofitting—is that there will be a loss of confidence.

The one question I would really like an answer from the Minister on is about what I think is wishful thinking: namely, the Government’s view that all these issues will be replaced or rectified by the original installers. I do not wish to accuse the department of being naive, but let us be clear: the majority building business model is that when you get into trouble, you go into liquidation. I and, I think, other people really want to understand who will then bear the cost of those rectifications where that happens, as I suspect it will quite regularly.

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath) (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord. The noble Baroness has taken time out from Nuclear Week, which we have both been spending a very enjoyable three days on. She is absolutely right to stress the importance of the scheme. Clearly, there is consensus across the House on dealing with this big problem, as both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness suggested.

I make it clear that we have the evidence of an audit of about 1,100 of those 65,000, and there will now be a massive piece of work to follow up with further audits, which will be overseen by Ofgem. Some of those will be desk based and others will be in-person site visits. There will be a proportionality test to decide how the audits will be undertaken.

The sampling that has been done was geared towards the installers that were thought to be most risky, but the fact is that a significant proportion of that sample showed that there were major issues, which is why we needed to take swift action to conduct further checks and initiate a further programme of remediation. We think it is 38 installers, not 39—a correction has been made by TrustMark. To answer the noble Lord, of course they were all under the auspices of TrustMark, and we are working very hard through certification bodies and TrustMark to require them to remediate the work.

As the noble Lord pointed out, it is a requirement for those schemes to be registered with TrustMark. In the case of those already audited, this is happening. I believe most installers want to do the right thing and do a good job. My understanding is that where issues are being flagged, they are repairing the work, but clearly we are having mechanisms put in place to make sure that the installers deliver on their obligations, and the guarantee system we have acts as a backstop. Clearly, the current system is not working. There is a combination of TrustMark, the companies involved, the certification process and the UK accreditation system—there are a lot of bodies involved and there is not sufficient co-ordination or tight oversight of this. We need to focus on remediation, but then we must move on to establish a better system in future.

On whether remediation will be carried out effectively, we are going to put additional spot checks in across the system to make sure that where insulation faults have been remediated, that work has been done to the required standard. Suppliers have committed to additional checks and monitoring future installations of solid-wall insulation so that householders can be confident that it is done to a better standard. I very much agree that any householder who has learned about this issue will be concerned. They will be concerned about the impact on their home, but also about whether the remediation work will be done effectively.

In terms of information to those households, Ofgem has begun writing to all households that have had solid-wall installation installed under energy company obligation 4 or the Great British Insulation Scheme. As I said, we will be reviewing the quality of all 65,000 solid-wall insulations, and we hope that the vast majority will not have any issues or that any issues found will be minor, but if we see major concerns, we will want action to take place immediately. It is clearly important that we carry out a quality check across all solid-wall insulation under these schemes.

I want to pick up the issue of saleability raised by the noble Lord, Lord Teverson. Clearly, this will be a concern. Householders seeking to sell or perhaps remortgage their home will be worried about lenders’ approach. Our expectation is that the firms that have done this shoddy work must pay for the remediation. Clearly, that must be the principle under which we operate. There is a moral hazard in my saying anything different from the Dispatch Box on that issue.

Looking further ahead, it is clear that the whole system of consumer protection is fragmented and in need of reform. In terms of our overall goal towards net zero and the massive challenge of heating efficiency in our homes, it is essential that in all these programmes the public have confidence in the quality of the installation. That is why what has been discovered has been very disappointing, but we have to take it, look at the whole system and improve it.

Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme (Amendment) Order 2025

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Monday 27th January 2025 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath) (Lab)]

My Lords, this order was laid before Parliament on 3 December 2024. Noble Lords will know that the UK Emissions Trading Scheme, UK ETS, was established under the Climate Change Act 2008 by the Greenhouse Gas Emissions Trading Scheme Order 2020 as a UK-wide greenhouse gas emissions trading scheme, contributing to the UK’s emissions-reduction targets and net-zero goal. The scheme is run by the UK ETS authority, a joint body comprising the UK Government and the devolved Governments. Our aim is to be predictable and responsible guardians of the scheme and its markets.

Under the UK ETS, operators are required to monitor, report on and surrender allowances in respect of their greenhouse gas emissions. Most allowances are purchased at regularly held auctions. However, operators in certain sectors at risk of carbon leakage are given a number of allowances for free in order to manage both their exposure to the carbon price and the risk that businesses’ decarbonisation efforts could be undermined by higher-carbon imports.

Under the UK ETS, an operator is the person who has control over an installation. Installations are stationary units at which regulated activities take place. Sub-installations represent operations carried out at an installation in respect of which free allocation operators are required to report activity levels for the purposes of the ETS.

I now turn to what this statutory instrument does. We have brought forward this SI to enable important changes and improvements to the scheme to be made. Under previous UK ETS policy, where a sub-installation ceased operation, free allowances were no longer distributed in respect of that sub-installation in the year after the year in which the relevant sub-installation ceased operation.

However, the operator was entitled to retain the full amount of free allowances made available in respect of the sub-installation without recalculation to account for the permanent cessation of the sub-installation within the scheme year. Noble Lords will readily see that this had the potential to result in the overallocation of free allowances beyond the volume required for carbon leakage mitigation, as well as the distribution of free allowances that were no longer associated with an activity that resulted in emissions.

This instrument ensures that the volume of free allocation to which an operator is entitled in the final year in which operations are carried out at one or more sub-installations is calculated by reference to the level of activity at the relevant sub-installation in that year. To facilitate this change, this statutory instrument will require that operators prepare an activity level report in respect of the final year in which operations are carried out at a sub-installation. That report will be used to recalculate the volume of free allocation to which the operator is entitled in the final year in which operations are carried out at a sub-installation, and any overallocation will be recoverable in accordance with existing scheme rules.

This instrument includes an exception to the final-year rule in circumstances in which the permanent cessation of operations at a sub-installation is part of a series of changes that has resulted in a material reduction in the specified emissions per unit of production of those pre-cessation products that continue to be produced at the installation. This exception to the final-year rule will incentivise decarbonisation, as operators that can demonstrate that the relevant requirements are met will continue to be entitled to the free allocation calculated in accordance with existing UK ETS rules, which is calculated in advance on the basis of historic activity levels.

This instrument also amends the circumstances in which an installation or sub-installation has ceased operation for the purposes of the UK ETS legislation. The previous definition of the circumstances in which an installation or sub-installation had ceased operations was at the point in time when it became technically impossible to resume operation. This definition was difficult to apply consistently in practice. The updated definitions provide that an installation has ceased operation when all regulated activities, in the case of an installation, or the relevant operation, in the case of a sub-installation, have permanently ceased to be carried out at the installation. This amendment increases certainty for both the scheme regulators and operators.

This instrument also introduces a requirement for operators to notify the relevant scheme regulator of circumstances in which all regulated activities cease to be carried out at an installation by the end of the scheme year in which the cessation occurs or within one month of the date of cessation—whichever is later—and to confirm whether the operator intends for one or more regulated activities to resume at the installation. Operators are similarly required to provide details of a cessation of operations in respect of a sub-installation in annual activity level reports prepared in relation to the 2025 scheme year and thereafter. Requiring these reports will facilitate the application of the new final-year rule.

The statutory instrument introduces a new power for regulators to issue a notice to an operator which determines that an installation or sub-installation has ceased operation for the purposes of UK ETS legislation. The new power is available in circumstances where the regulator is not satisfied that the operator intends regulated activities to resume at the installation or intends for regulated operations to resume at the sub-installation level. The change will increase certainty for operators and facilitate equivalent treatment for all installations undergoing a cessation.

The changes follow comprehensive engagement and consultation with stakeholders. Between 18 December 2023 and 11 March 2024, the UK and devolved Governments ran a consultation, seeking views on proposals to alter the free-allocation methodology for the UK ETS statutory sectors to better target those most at risk of carbon leakage and ensure that free allocations are fairly distributed. The UK Emissions Trading Scheme: Free Allocation Review covered the provisions included in this statutory instrument on permanent cessations. The responses to this consultation were in broad support of the proposed technical changes to the treatment of permanent cessations. The authority response to this consultation will be delivered in two parts; an early response to proposals on permanent cessations was published last November.

In conclusion, I have spoken at considerable length on what seems to me a perfectly sensible order that builds on the work of the last Government. It seems to me absolutely sensible and proportionate. I beg to move.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I do not think I have ever known something so simple be made to sound so complicated, if I am honest. Basically, this will stop people having a free ride after they have closed down a particular part of their business; I think that describes it. Therefore, it makes sense and is right to do.

Perhaps I may come back to a slightly broader canvas, because this is a really important area for the UK ETS. Free allocations come primarily from grandfather rights and work through. I presume that all free permits will cease as the UK introduces the carbon border adjustment mechanism, which I think is coming in 2027, as planned by the previous Government. Free allocations are all about carbon leakage and, when we have a carbon border mechanism, clearly, carbon leakage is solved by that instrument rather than by free issue. So will they be phased out in that time?

The Minister will also be aware that, under the trade and co-operation agreement negotiated by the previous Government, there was a strong inference that the UK ETS and the EU ETS should recombine in a single scheme. In fact, one of the issues at the moment is that the UK ETS carbon price is significantly less than the European one. This is due to what I would probably see as an overallocation of free permits.

So my question is: are this Government still considering bringing those two schemes together? This is particularly important at present because, in one year’s time, the EU will introduce its carbon border adjustment mechanism for heavy industry, but, in particular, energy exports will be taken into account by the first phase. If we do not have an equivalent scheme or are not part of a joint scheme, effectively we will be subject to tariffs in terms of those effective carbon charges.

A particular problem with the carbon border adjustment mechanism is the GB-Northern Ireland issue, because there will effectively be a tariff for carbon costs and energy between Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I visited Energy UK one or two weeks ago, and it was particularly concerned about these aspects of the UK ETS into the near future and when the EU moves forward with its well-planned carbon border adjustment mechanism. It is really important to make decisions here and get on with them, because there will be very difficult issues if we do not resolve this over the next 12 months.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords who spoke in this short debate. I will first respond to the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, on international co-operation on carbon pricing. I certainly accept that, as we transition to net zero, it is important that we work across international borders to drive climate ambition. Under the terms of the trade and co-operation agreement, the UK Government and the EU agreed to consider linking our respective carbon pricing schemes and to co-operate on carbon pricing. The noble Lord will know that we are working to reset our relationship with the EU and strengthen ties and improve trade and investment relationships with it, including promoting climate, energy and economic security, while recognising that there will be no return to the single market or customs union.

The Prime Minister visited Brussels on 12 December 2024, and the joint statement with President von der Leyen illustrated that the UK and the EU would take forward this agenda of strengthening co-operation at pace over the coming months. As set out in the TCA, carbon pricing remains an area where we will continue to co-operate, and it is right that we will continue to develop the UK ETS to support our climate goals and support sectors in the transition to net zero.

The carbon price within the EU emissions trading scheme is determined by the market, and it is designed this way because competitive markets are likely to deliver the most efficient transition to net zero across the economy. This will give emitters the flexibility as to how they abate their emissions, thereby allowing businesses to cut carbon where it is cheaper for them to do so.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Offord, that, as I said earlier, we are here simply building on the work of his Government in just making a sensible adjustment to make sure that there is no free ride in removing the excess allocation of free allocations, as the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, suggested. When the production has been ended as part of a decarbonisation programme, allowing them those free allocations recognises that. We do not think that these rules will lead to disproportionate regulation or that there will be potential manipulation of the market.

On oil and gas, I will write to the noble Lord with further details on his specific question.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

I am afraid I do have to come back to the Minister. Is it the Government’s intention to integrate, if they can, the two emissions trading systems? Is that a government goal or not? Also, do the Government still intend to do what the previous Government suggested—to introduce a carbon border mechanism for the UK at the beginning of 2027? This is pretty fundamental stuff that industry and the whole economy need to understand. If the Government do neither of those, how will they solve the problem of the EU carbon border mechanism from the beginning of next year?

Environmental Permitting (Electricity Generating Stations) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Monday 27th January 2025 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath) (Lab)]

My Lords, these regulations were laid in draft before the House on 30 October 2024. The Government believe that the answer to the challenges around energy security, affordability and sustainability point not in different directions but in the same direction: clean power. Investing in clean power at speed and scale can help tackle the climate crisis and create good jobs. We believe that it is the only route to protect bill payers and ensure energy security; this is why making Britain a clean energy superpower by 2030 is one of the five central missions of this Government.

To deliver that mission, we will rely increasingly on a renewables-led system as the foundation for a decarbonised grid. We have set ambitious but deliverable targets to double onshore wind, treble solar and quadruple offshore wind by 2030. Although renewable energy is at the heart of our plan to deliver clean power, we also know that we must bring forward low-carbon generation sources, providing added security for when the sun does not shine and the wind does not blow. This includes flexible supply sources that can scale up or down instantaneously to meet peak demand.

Some of this flexibility can be provided by short-duration technologies such as batteries, which can help balance the system within each day, but we know that we will also need long-duration technologies, which can run for extended periods of low renewable production. To meet this challenge, the Government are investing in low-carbon flexible technologies, such as carbon capture and storage at existing power stations, hydrogen and long-duration electricity storage. This flexibility is critical to maintaining a constant supply of electricity in the UK, keeping the lights on for millions of homes and businesses.

However, as these new low-carbon technologies scale up, we will continue to need reliable mature technologies, including gas, to provide energy security. The National Energy System Operator’s report on delivering clean power by 2030 showed that maintaining gas capacity in the system is in line with the mission to deliver clean power. We have been clear from the outset that gas is expected to be used less in our future energy system, moving to an important strategic reserve role in order to ensure security of supply. Although gas will continue to play an important role in the system, it is only right that we should expect any new or substantially refurbished combustion plants to be built “net zero-ready”. This is why we are uplifting the existing regime and introducing the new decarbonisation readiness requirements.

Before I turn to detail of the decarbonisation readiness requirements, let me first set out the current regime. Since 2009, all new-build combustion power plants in Great Britain sized over 300 megawatts have been subject to the carbon capture readiness requirements. These regulations require plant operators to demonstrate that it is technically and economically feasible to retrofit carbon capture and storage technology. Due to the threshold of 300 megawatts, the policy has seen limited application since 2009. The reality is that it has contributed to a costly market distortion by incentivising the building of smaller, less efficient plants and inadvertently creating an unacceptable loophole. This has resulted in a significant number of plants being built at 299 megawatts in order to avoid the carbon capture readiness requirements.

The policy landscape has changed significantly since the carbon capture readiness requirements were introduced. Plant operators now have an alternative pathway to decarbonise, through hydrogen-fired generation, as well as the introduction of the UK’s legal obligation to meet carbon budgets and reach net zero by 2050. In March 2023, a final consultation on the decarbonisation readiness proposals was published alongside the publication of two technical studies for hydrogen and carbon capture and storage. The consultation received positive feedback from industry. Some 28 organisations and one individual responded—representing plant operators, original equipment manufacturers and trade associations—with broad support for the proposed changes and implementation of the decarbonisation readiness requirements. We published a response in mid-October, giving the go-ahead to proposals set out in the consultation.

On the details of the regulations, this statutory instrument will amend the Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) Regulations 2016 by inserting new Schedule 25C. It will remove the minimum capacity threshold of 300 megawatts, which will remove any existing market distortion and support rapid decarbonisation by ensuring that nearly all new and substantially refurbishing combustion power plants must have a credible plan to decarbonise. The regulations will also move the requirements from the planning consent process, where they currently sit for carbon capture readiness, to environmental permitting. This will ensure that the responsibility for regulating the requirements falls to the Environment Agency rather than to local planning authorities and my own department. Unlike local planning authorities, the Environment Agency is already involved in the assessment of carbon capture readiness and has the technical expertise to assess the requirements. As I mentioned a moment ago, that will also include hydrogen readiness.

The new requirements will now enable combustion plants to demonstrate decarbonisation readiness through conversion to hydrogen firing, as well as carbon capture. In doing so, the instrument introduces hydrogen conversion readiness and carbon capture readiness assessments, which are proportionate to the developing nature of hydrogen to power and carbon capture and storage. The requirements will also expand the generation technologies in scope of the requirements to include biomass, energy from waste and combined heat and power plants. This will ensure that a higher number of carbon-intensive plants are now captured.

These updated requirements are intended to strike a balance. They ensure that new-build plants and the refurbishment of old sites are conducted ready to take full advantage of future decarbonisation opportunities, while acknowledging the emerging state of hydrogen and carbon capture technologies and their enabling infrastructure. We expect that the requirements will be strengthened over time as the generation technology improves and clarity on enabling infrastructure availability increases. To ensure that we regularly assess the impact of the policy and the case for strengthening the requirements, we have included a statutory requirement for the Government to carry out a review of the policy in periods not exceeding five years.

In summary, these regulations will ensure that the gas capacity we need for security of supply is future-proofed and has a credible plan to transition to low-carbon operation. In doing so, it will help deliver our aim to become a clean energy superpower and deliver net zero by 2050. I beg to move.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

When one is first appointed to Parliament, one worries about addressing a huge crowd of parliamentarians and being on the telly as well. I am not feeling too nervous today.

I found the Minister’s explanation excellent; I did not understand it particularly from the legislation or the Explanatory Memorandum. I presume that the whole area around potential new gas, in particular combustion power stations, is about aiming for 95% decarbonisation by 2030 rather than 100%, which I understand in terms of pragmatism.

On the areas that I do not really understand, the one that I had not really realised is the hydrogen aspect of these regulations. I find it difficult to understand how one would ever convert a gas power station to a hydrogen power station in a way that would make any economic sense whatever in terms of gas storage coming in and perhaps being used as part of the capacity mechanism. The hydrogen would have to be green hydrogen, which means that it is probably generated by electricity in the first place—so why would one de-convert it through various inefficiency mechanisms for it then to go through a degassed power station? That just does not seem logical to me.

On that, the other risk seems to be that—I am not a technical expert on this, obviously—the conversion from a gas-fired power station to a hydrogen-fired power station is probably not that different, and therefore the cost of conversion, or of being hydrogen-ready, is not very great. Carbon capture and storage, however, is a major conversion and, presumably, it has to be near facilities that can store carbon: either a carbon pipeline, which we went through all the legislation for in the last Energy Act, or something on the coast, so it can go undersea. So I ask the Minister: is this effectively another loophole like the one that already exists, in that new combustion stations just say that they are hydrogen-ready? In terms of carbon capture and storage, does that very much restrict where they are?

I have another concern, although I fully accept what the Government are trying to do here. The Minister mentioned energy from waste plants. We all know that, as part of their planning permission, the plants often have to be ready to have heat networks—but this hardly ever happens. Occasionally it does; there are examples of energy from waste being tapped into heat networks. I just feel that there is a risk that these things can be built in a certain way—I do not know how much they have to be ready or near a connection—but in reality they will never happen. Certainly, that tends to be the track record in this area.

I will be interested to hear the Minister’s comments, but, generally, I welcome what the Government are trying to do.

[Lord Offord of Garvel (Con)]

My Lords, in speaking to these regulations, I will concentrate on a major area where I feel the Government must provide some clarity: regulatory burden. In doing so, I am of course mindful that it was the previous Government who introduced the initial consultation to expand and update carbon capture readiness requirements, now rebranded as decarbonisation readiness requirements. The immediate effect of these regulations will be felt across electricity generating stations in England, particularly those now required to meet the expanded decarbonisation readiness criteria. Operators will be required to submit a decarbonisation readiness report as part of their environmental permit applications, which must include technical details on the feasibility of carbon capture or hydrogen conversion during electricity generation.

A significant provision in this statutory instrument is the removal of the 300 megawatt minimum capacity threshold, which currently dictates when carbon capture readiness requirements apply. In this amendment, the requirements will apply to both new and substantially refurbished combustion power plants, as well as voluntary applications for existing plants. Additionally, the SI introduces assessments for hydrogen conversion readiness and carbon capture, usage and storage.

It is incumbent on the Government to outline comprehensively what specific support will be available to businesses as they are required to adjust to these new requirements. Can the Minister assure me that his officials in the department recognise that the onus must be on helping operators achieve compliance rather than face an undue burden? Will he outline whether exemptions have been considered—for example, for smaller or older power plants that may face specific challenges in meeting the requirements on day 1? There is a fine line to be walked between regulation and innovation, and, to use a familiar proverb, there is a real need here to make sure that we are not cutting off our nose to spite our face.

This instrument hands the Environment Agency direct assessment powers over compliance. Again, can the Minister provide the necessary detail on the actions that the agency will take to facilitate a smooth transition before the implementation date of February 2026? Additionally, will there be any further consultations, or will any additional guidance be issued, before the regulations come into effect?

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Committee stage
Wednesday 15th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

We certainly got the noble Lord’s point.

This has been an interesting debate with which to finish today’s proceedings. I start with Amendments 106, 107 and 115. The debate between the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Hamilton, on the benefits of oil rigs and other structures for fish populations allows me to say that other energy infrastructure can also have a positive impact on nature. We know, for instance, that wind farms can coexist with farmland easily. We have examples of solar meadows, which is a practice of growing wildflower meadows on solar farms. I have heard talk of green corridors, where beautiful new pylons are built to extend the grid. I am not being facetious here, as we need to look at ways in which energy can contribute to nature recovery. It is an important point to make.

I agree on the importance of our coastal communities and commercial fishing, as reflected in Amendments 106 and 107. Amendment 115 would require GBE to consult annually with the commercial shipping sector and fishing industry. I would expect GBE to provide regular updates on its work on such issues through its annual reports and accounts. We know that the projects that Great British Energy is likely to be involved in will all be subject to relevant regulations, including environmental impact assessments. There will be statutory stakeholder engagement to understand the potential impact of development. In line with other energy developers, GBE will consider the impact and risk of its activity on the commercial shipping sector and fishing industry, as it will other affected stakeholders. I will draw these remarks to the attention of the chair of GBE, so he can understand the importance of the issue that the noble Lord, Lord Offord, has raised.

In relation to coastal communities, there will be many opportunities in the energy sector in the future. We talked about the challenge of the North Sea transition. We obviously hope that, as jobs reduce in the oil and gas sector, the people involved can take up other jobs, some of which I hope will be in the wider energy sector. But overall, GBE has an important contribution to make in this area.

On Amendment 114, the noble Lord, Lord Teverson, raised an important point on the Ministry of Defence and security agencies. Clearly, to ensure resilience, GBE will have to consider the impact and risk of its activity on offshore installation, including its pipeline and cable connections, within the context of relevant security regulations and hostile state action. It is a very important and serious matter. All nationally significant infrastructure projects, which include projects in the energy sector over 50 megawatts, undergo rigorous scrutiny to monitor and mitigate security risks. In the end, these decisions fall to Ministers to make in relation to development consent orders.

There was an interesting debate on air defence issues between the noble Lords, Lord Teverson and Lord Hamilton. I have to say that my department is working very closely with the Ministry of Defence on these issues. We are talking closely and working to ensure that our own offshore wind ambitions can coexist alongside air defence. MoD programme NJORD will deliver an enduring radar mitigation solution, which will prevent turbines from interfering with MoD radar systems. In the context of our more general working relationship with the Ministry of Defence, it will be a responsibility of GBE to consider and consult relevant stakeholders. My department will of course ensure that that happens appropriately.

Amendment 118, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Bloomfield, would place a nature recovery duty on Great British Energy. Let me say at once that we are absolutely committed to restoring and protecting nature and meeting our Environment Act targets. We want GBE to focus on its core mission to drive clean energy deployment, but I assure the noble Baroness that the projects that GBE invests in and encourages will be subject to all environmental and climate regulations, in the same way that every other company is.

I draw her attention to our recently published Clean Power 2030 Action Plan, which dedicates an entire section to

“Integrating clean power and the natural environment”.


I was going to quote from it, but I do not think I need to do now. We are launching an engagement exercise in 2025 to invite communities, civil society and wider stakeholders to submit their ideas on how we can best encourage nature-positive best practice into energy infrastructure and development. Feedback from this exercise will allow the Government to better understand how we can integrate nature restoration through the clean power 2030 mission. We very much agree with the substance of what the noble Baroness said.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

As the Minister will know, terrestrially, there is now biodiversity net gain, which came through the Environment Act and is applied to terrestrial developments. I do not think this is for the largest of them yet, but that is due to happen. I understand it is the Government’s intention to introduce marine biodiversity net gain regulations. I presume GBE will be subject to those.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am going to have to take advice on that as I do not have the information. However, if there are regulations which apply to companies, GBE will be expected to comply, and to act consistently with general government policy towards biodiversity. I will write to him about that in some detail.

On community benefits, I take the point of the noble Earl, Lord Russell, and other noble Lords. In our manifesto, we committed to ensuring that communities which live near new clean energy infrastructure projects can directly benefit from them. We are considering at the moment how to effectively deliver community benefits for those who live near new energy infrastructure, which includes new energy generation and transmission technology. We are developing guidance on community benefits for electricity transmission network infrastructure and onshore wind, which we will be publishing in due course. We are also reviewing our overall approach to community benefits, both to ensure consistency and quality and to ensure that communities are properly recognised and are able to come with us on our net zero and clean power journey. This includes looking to existing examples in Europe and further afield to see what has worked elsewhere. I look forward to updating the House on our approach to community benefits shortly.

The role of Great British Energy has been set out in its founding statement, and our commitment to putting local communities at the heart of the energy transition is a very strong component of what we are doing. The local power plan will support local communities to take a stake in the shift to net zero, as owners and partners in clean energy projects. They are important in themselves, as there is a huge appetite in many localities for community power, engagement and involvement. I agree that seeing a tangible benefit for local communities is important in itself, but it is also growing general support for the move to clean power and net zero, which is very important indeed.

We take the noble Lord’s point. It is clearly important, we are working on the details and will be publishing further information in due course. In my first week as a Minister in the department, I visited Biggleswade onshore windfarm, a small windfarm with 12 turbines. The company there is voluntary and there is a good practice trade guideline of paying £40,000 a year to the local community for such things as the local parish church, the community hall and other things. It was really good to see and is an example of what can happen.

Great British Energy Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Committee stage
Monday 13th January 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, can I make a comment on that? I am a trustee of the green share in the Green Investment Bank, which was privatised by the Tories after it was set up by the coalition Government. It was a very profitable operation, although it was fully publicly owned. The issue was that it was almost too conservative in terms of making money under Treasury rules, so it did not make as much of a difference—it did make a difference—as it should have done. One of the risks is that GB Energy could be too conservative because the Treasury is too close to it and will not let it do the innovation that needs to happen for decarbonisation to take place by 2030.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to make just two points. The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, made a very interesting and wise contribution. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Hamilton, that of course I have heard the expression that Governments are not very good at picking winners. That is why we have set up GBE. We will have a company with people with expertise to enable investments to take place within the context we set under Clause 3 and Clause 5 as strategic priorities. None the less, it will have operational independence.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, is right; noble Lords in their various amendments are seeking to pin down GBE through excessive reporting requirements. The risk is that GBE, far from being allowed to flourish and develop, will be inhibited and micromanaged. That is why these amendments are wholly inappropriate in relation to Clause 6. The power of direction is not to be used in the way that noble Lords are suggesting; it is a backstop power. What is the point of setting up GBE if we are to undermine its independence in the way these amendments suggest?

Energy Costs for Businesses

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Tuesday 17th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, we are putting some resources into the fusion programme. The years that I have in mind are the 2040s, which are a little less than 20 years away. This reflects our belief that there is very much potential now, and that the UK is in a very strong leadership position on it.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, one of the ways that large businesses reduce their energy costs is by signing up to power purchase agreements, or PPAs. That is only possible for large businesses. Is there a way that Government could make sure that those benefits of more competitive pricing could come down to medium or small businesses, maybe by clustering or some other method, so they can get the advantage as well?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very happy to give that consideration. The noble Lord will have noted that we are looking at whether we should introduce a regulatory regime for the third-party intermediaries, because some businesses are affected both by mis-selling and other problems with the current system. The other point I would make is that the Energy Ombudsman’s remit is being extended to small businesses within the next few days, and I hope that will also be of advantage to those companies that he mentioned.

Private Low-carbon Investment: Green Finance Institute Report

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Monday 9th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to respond to the Green Finance Institute’s report A Greenprint for Property Linked Finance in the UK, published in November, to accelerate private low-carbon investment into existing homes.

[The Minister of State, Department for Energy Security and Net Zero (Lord Hunt of Kings Heath) (Lab)]

My Lords, we recognise the important role that private finance can play in helping us to achieve our decarbonisation ambitions. My officials have met the Green Finance Institute several times to discuss the potential for property-linked finance in a UK context. We will continue to work with industry stakeholders to explore options for working with the private sector, including banks and building societies, to scale up private finance to accelerate efforts in this area.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, I very much welcome those conversations that the Minister has had. As he knows, the way to bring down energy bills for families is to insulate their homes. Indeed, homes account for almost a quarter of carbon emissions. Perhaps the Minister could be a little more precise. These discussions can take a long time. The £6 billion, which I welcome, in the Government’s warm homes plan is just a small amount of the money that is needed to refurbish UK buildings. Given that legislation is often required to implement these schemes, can he give some sort of timetable of when bringing such private finance into this sector will happen?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right that this is an important area of policy. We reckon that buildings account for 31% of total UK emissions, and heating is 75% of that proportion of emissions, so I very much take his point that there is an urgent need to make progress. I cannot give him an exact time. Looking at international experience of these kinds of schemes, it is not altogether positive. In the US experience, for instance, it may have worked for multi-occupational commercial properties but, for individuals, it does not seem to have made much progress.

COP 29

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Thursday 28th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, it is always interesting to have the noble Lord’s perspective, given his long-standing interest in energy. He enjoyed being Energy Secretary, and it is good that we have a department focused very much on energy issues. I think the target is consistent: 2030 is the aim for clean power; the 2035 goal we have agreed on the reduction in greenhouse gases is the UK offer that we have made. The actual target we have set is an 81% reduction in emissions by 2035, against a 1990 baseline. I am clear that this is consistent with 2030—in other words, the 2030 target takes us on to the 2035 target we have now agreed. The noble Lord asked that question on Monday, and we are clear that we are being consistent; and obviously, we are taking the advice of the Committee on Climate Change on this.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, one of the things that has improved hugely is satellite monitoring of emissions, particularly of methane. According to a recent report, some 1,000 major methane escapes have been identified and notified to the nations which caused them, but there has been very little reaction or implementation of measures. The UK has shown leadership here as part of the global methane pledge. How can we much better ensure that we implement the solution to emissions of this most concentrated of greenhouse gases, as doing so is really important?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord, who raises a very important issue. In fact, during or around the time of the COP 29 discussions, we announced £5 million to help developing countries tackle methane emissions from their fossil fuels. This is supporting delivery of the global methane pledge launched at COP 26. However, I am very happy to take a further look at this and to respond to the noble Lord in some detail about what further actions we might take on this important matter.

Drax Power Limited: Ofgem Investigation

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Monday 11th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord. I have seen the media reports, but I have to say to the House that it is the responsibility of Ofgem to make judgments as to whether a company is applying the sustainability criteria. The issue before us today is data information. Clearly, Ofgem found that Drax was not complying with the requirements—hence the redress payment. However, it did not find that Drax was not complying with sustainability criteria.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, given the amount of private money that has been spent in this area, is it not important for Ofgem to be rather more ahead of the curve on these issues? I notice in the report that Drax is now going to have external audit. Why did it not have this before? More importantly, why does not Ofgem get off its backside and go to the United States and Canada to check these items out for itself? Is it about to do that?

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, first, it is not for Ministers to tell Ofgem how to regulate; we have to rely on its rigorous approach. Secondly, in the US and Canada, we depend on the rigorousness of the regulators locally. Ofgem’s job is to ensure that, as a whole, sustainability criteria are correct. I do not believe that it would be fair to say that Ofgem is not doing a thorough job. That is not my experience.

European Union (Withdrawal) Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Committee: 8th sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, that was a mischievous intervention by my noble friend, which the noble and learned Lord has dealt with eloquently from his place.

It seems to me that this is a very important question and the noble and learned Lord is surely right: obviously, this country developed the first peacetime nuclear plant at Sellafield—or Windscale, or Calder Hall, even—and we blew that. We blew our leadership completely. We have though, with nuclear fusion, still great potential and we are at risk of throwing that away as well. That is why this is such an important amendment and discussion. It would be a tragedy if we lost the current expertise that we have, and I hope the noble Baroness will be able to say something about that.

I echo what my noble friend Lord Liddle said: we have had a number of debates about Euratom now, but there has never been a straight explanation as to why the Government decided they had to leave Euratom even though we were members of Euratom and Euratom existed before the EU. The noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, is critical of Euratom, but the fact is that the Government—his Government—are saying that we want to maintain nuclear safeguards in consistency with Euratom, but we cannot do so at the beginning so all we can promise to do is to maintain the standards of the IAEA, which as the Office for Nuclear Regulation told the Public Bill Committee in the other place will mean fewer inspections at lower intensity. So we have this remarkable situation where the Government have decided, for no reason that anyone can understand, that we are going to leave Euratom, but because we think Euratom is such a good institution our aspiration is to keep to Euratom standards. However, we cannot do it: because the UK cannot get the number of inspectors in place to maintain those standards, we are going to keep to the reduced standards of the IAEA. We find ourselves in a quite extraordinary position.

I turn to the speech given by the Prime Minister at the Mansion House just a couple of weeks ago. She differentiates between some EU agencies and others. So, in her speech, she says:

“We will also want to explore with the EU, the terms on which the UK could remain part of EU agencies such as those that are critical for the chemicals, medicines and aerospace industries: the European Medicines Agency, the European Chemicals Agency, and the European Aviation Safety Agency”.


However, when she talks about energy, she simply talks about having “a close association” with Euratom. I ask the noble Baroness why, when is it is quite clear that the Government are going for associate membership of a number of agencies, such as the EMA, which means accepting their rules but having no influence over those rules, in the case of Euratom, which I would have thought, frankly is as crucial as the European Medicines Agency or the European Chemicals Agency, all we are seeking to do is to have a close association. It would be very helpful if the noble Baroness would explain what is it about Euratom that the Government seem so determined to leave and not seek associate membership, when it is an agency whose standards we aspire to keep. It is a puzzle that, despite the help of Ministers on this Bill and the Nuclear Safeguards Bill, we still do not understand.

[Lord Teverson]

Before the Minister stands up, perhaps I might ask for some clarification. The draft transition agreement was published today. I read through what it says on Euratom—it is in green, meaning that it is completely agreed apart from any legal, bureaucratic changes that might be made, yet I am still unclear from that document whether during the transitional period the ONR is responsible to the International Atomic Energy Agency for safeguarding in the UK or Euratom continues to be responsible under the acquis. I ask the Minister to clarify that tonight—it must have been agreed because it is in green—so that we are clear for the debate tomorrow.

Energy Bill

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Wednesday 6th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I support the noble Baroness. I speak as president of CO-Gas Safety. Like the noble Baroness, for many years I have been concerned about the lack of action in relation to carbon monoxide poisoning. As she said, the official figures disguise the true extent of the problem. Because the official figures have not really reflected the size of the problem, various agencies, particularly the Health and Safety Commission, have never really been prepared to take this issue seriously. The noble Baroness has found an ingenious way to bring this to your Lordships’ attention within the Energy Bill.

This afternoon, the Minister gave a very welcome announcement in relation to a government review. However, we would like to see this issue go further. All that my noble friend is doing is setting a framework within which the Government can take action following such a review. I think it particularly important that it gives the Government a regulation-making power. As the noble Baroness has said, not only are the figures just the tip of the iceberg but there is a real concern at the moment about the cost of servicing appliances. If people put that off, particularly because of concerns about the cost of living at the moment, the risk to many people will be greater. For that reason, I hope that the Government might be sympathetic. If not, perhaps the noble Baroness will decide to press this at some point. I hope that she does.

[Lord Teverson]

Regrettably, my Lords, as has already been mentioned, my noble friend Lady Maddock is in Berlin on an EU Select Committee. It seems to be the place to be this afternoon. I know that she is very keen to support this amendment.

We hear of many tragedies that have happened because of this silent killer, often, but not exclusively, within rented accommodation. It is perhaps worth reminding those of us who are landlords in any way that we are already under an obligation to have our gas installations checked. I think it would make sense for a way to be found, without requiring more bureaucracy or a lot of extra work, to include carbon monoxide indicators through a clause of this sort.

I had a new wood-burner fitted in my house recently. Although carbon monoxide is often thought about in connection to traditional gas boilers, I was reminded by my installer that wood-burning stoves can be far more dangerous than gas boilers in this area. They took it upon themselves to install a carbon monoxide indicator and alarm in that room before they left. I thought that that was excellent; the industry was starting to get ahead of the problem. However, I hope that the Government will pursue this agenda in whatever way they feel is appropriate in order to ensure that more of the tragedies which have happened in the past do not happen in the future.

Scottish Parliament (Constituencies and Regions) Order 2010

Debate between Lord Hunt of Kings Heath and Lord Teverson

Tuesday 26th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Teverson]

My Lords, I will make a short intervention. I was born in Dagenham—made in Dagenham, effectively—which was then part of Essex and is now in occupied Essex, since it is occupied by the London Borough of Havering. I am interested in the debate on this order. I say to noble colleagues from Scotland: be thankful that, whatever this order and the Bill in the other House say, at the moment there is no question of boundaries crossing the Scottish-English border. I ask you to keep that in mind when it comes to other nations in the United Kingdom. Cornwall is a Celtic nation. I ask for noble Lords’ support when the other Bill comes to this House. There is a possibility of boundaries crossing the Tamar river. I ask the Government to take that into consideration as they think about the Bill before it crosses to this House.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble and learned Lord the Advocate-General for Scotland for his introduction to this order, and for his explanation. I am also grateful to his officials for the helpful information that I received this morning. It has certainly been a wide-ranging debate. I am sure the noble and learned Lord is looking forward to responding to all the pithy questions put to him.

I would particularly encourage him to respond to the noble Lord, Lord St John of Fawsley. It is quite remarkable, given the current size of the House, that the Government are proposing to bring dozens of new Peers into the House. I am a member of the Leader’s Group, which is looking at retirement options because of concern about the size of the House. I find it remarkable, given that the Government now have a notional majority which we are seeing as the votes come through, that they seem determined to pack this House. It is difficult to see how this House can perform as a revising Chamber if the Government are determined to win every vote. What is the point of the second Chamber in that respect? I hope the Minister will respond to that.

As he said, the orders follow the submission of the Report on the First Periodic Review of Scottish Parliament Boundaries by the Scottish Boundary Commission. The intention is that they will apply to the Scottish Parliament elections in May 2011. I start by paying tribute to the Boundary Commission for Scotland. Clearly, not all noble Lords agree with the entire outcome of the commission’s work. However, I do not think that any noble Lord has criticised the thoroughness with which it embarked on this exercise.