Health and Social Care (Safety and Quality) Bill

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Excerpts

Friday 13th March 2015 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB)]

I agree that there should be a culture of openness, honesty and transparency. When things go wrong, most people say, “I don’t want this to happen to anyone else”. There should be lessons learnt from mistakes, not cover-ups. This should be made as clear as possible.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, as noble Lords know, the Opposition support the Bill. However, issues have been raised which I hope the noble Earl, Lord Howe, will help to clarify.

I should like to pick up my noble friend’s point about whether this issue is raised at institutional or individual level. It looks as though the Bill focuses on individuals. Will the noble Earl confirm that it is his view that responsibility ultimately lies with the corporate boards which are responsible for the activities taking place in the National Health Service? If that is so, why does the Bill not list those bodies which it covers so that it would be clear who should take corporate responsibility?

Secondly, I take the noble Earl back to the Statement he made last week about Morecambe Bay. It was very telling when he talked about the concerns raised by Dr Bill Kirkup about the lack of a culture of openness and transparency. He said that,

“this report makes clear that there is a long way to go. It seems medical notes were destroyed and mistakes covered up at Morecambe Bay, quite possibly because of a defensive culture where the individuals involved thought they would lose their jobs if they were discovered to have been responsible for a death. However, within sensible professional boundaries, no one should lose their job for an honest mistake made with the best of intentions. The only cardinal offence is not to report that mistake openly so that the correct lessons can be learnt”.—[Official Report, 3/3/15; col. 160.]

Will the noble Earl say very clearly that that point, which I agree with, is not in conflict with the Bill, and in particular with Clause 1? It is very important—the last thing we want to do is discourage people from being open about mistakes. We do not want that to be an unintended consequence of the Bill.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health (Earl Howe) (Con)]

My Lords, I shall first address a concern that several noble Lords have flagged up most prominently: that the regulations are not sufficiently clear that the duties that we are talking about here are duties on providers rather than individuals. The regulations apply to registered persons. Schedule 1 to the Interpretation Act 1978 makes it clear that in legislation “person” includes not only natural persons but legal persons, such as companies. Under the Health and Social Care Act 2008, the registered persons are providers, not individual members of staff.

The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, asked why the clause does not list the bodies covered by the Bill. The clause amends Section 20 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008. It is the 2008 Act which sets out who the regulations apply to. They apply to registered persons who, under the Act, are the providers, not individual staff, as I said. He also asked whether almost all providers would be likely to be in breach of the regulations for one reason or another. The clause amends the Secretary of State’s regulation-making powers. It would not by itself impose requirements on providers. Those requirements will be as laid down in the fundamental standards regulations, to which I shall come in a moment. On the specific example that the noble Lord gave, where a surgeon did not engage meaningfully with the WHO checklist prior to an operation, my answer is that that would be a disciplinary issue for the employer and/or the professional regulator, if it became known.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

That is an extremely helpful answer, but will it be made absolutely clear to employers in the guidelines to be issued alongside the regulations that they have not only a right to take disciplinary action but a duty to do so? If that is set from the centre, that will give a lot of authority to boards, which they sometimes feel that they do not have at the moment.

[Earl Howe]

That is a very important point, which I shall be happy to take away.

Amendment 1, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Turnberg and Lord Warner, would replace the reference to “no avoidable harm” with “take steps to reduce” avoidable harm. I accept that in some settings regulated by the CQC, including the NHS, that phrase may better reflect the scale of what can be achieved. However, regulation by the CQC is not just about the NHS. In the case of some health and adult social care services, I believe that it is reasonable to strive to eradicate all avoidable harm. It is for that reason that I prefer the current wording. Yes, it is more ambitious, but its ambition contains an incentive to strive towards a continuous reduction of avoidable harm across all settings regulated by the CQC.

The amendment would also result in requirements on providers to monitor the steps they take to reduce avoidable harm and to train staff in the reduction of avoidable harm. That is clearly desirable, but I must question whether it needs to be a duty set out in primary legislation. The training of staff in reducing avoidable harm is important, and Section 20(3)(d) of the Health and Social Care Act 2008 already expressly provides for regulations to include requirements on the training of staff.

The fundamental standards regulations, to which I referred a minute ago, which were passed by this House in November and come into force in April, already meet the test of the Bill, and no change to regulations is required. The fundamental standards require that care and treatment is provided in a safe way for service users. They give the CQC power to take action against providers where a failure to take steps to provide care in a safe way results in avoidable harm.

The regulations are breached not whenever avoidable harm occurs, but where there has been a significant failure effectively to manage the risks of harm. They are clear that that involves assessing the risks and taking steps to mitigate them. They ensure that staff have the right skills and qualifications, that premises and equipment are safe and that medicines are properly managed. They also require providers to have systems in place to assess, monitor and improve the quality and safety of services.

Noble Lords have cautioned that the clause might lead to staff taking a risk-averse approach. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, expressed the concern that it could encourage staff to lose sight of the patient and instead focus on covering up mistakes. I firmly believe that the reverse is the case. What it does is to underpin our efforts to strive for the very thing so strongly advocated by the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg: an open reporting culture where identifying errors helps organisations to improve the safety of care. Where providers take the steps to manage the risk to safety, front-line staff can focus on the needs of patients and service users, content in the knowledge that the environment in which they work promotes safety and quality.

Our debate up to now has perhaps given the erroneous impression that the fundamental standards are just about the systems and processes. They are not. They focus on the outcomes of care and treatment. The new regulations, which come into force in less than three weeks, place patients and service users at the heart of service provision. They require that treatment and care meet the needs of service users and reflect their preferences. They prohibit providers from providing care without consent. They also put in place a new duty of candour that requires providers to inform service users where there have been failings in their care.

In those ways, patients and service users are central to the fundamental standards. Clause 1 rightly ensures that safety and the reduction of avoidable harm will always be the foundation of the regulatory system operated by the CQC.

I turn to Amendment 4, in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. I am confident that all noble Lords share the same objective as that of Clause 1, which is to place patient safety at the heart of the delivery of services. The Committee will be aware of the importance that the Government place on improving safety. The recent report of the Morecambe Bay investigation has re-emphasised that that is the right approach. Moving towards the reduction of avoidable harm requires action across the health and social care system.

I agree with those who say that the main way to reduce avoidable harm is through changes in culture. None the less, there is also a role for legislation. The role of the law in this area is straightforward: it can define minimum acceptable standards and introduce ways to protect patients who are put at risk when those standards are not met. It provides a safety net that protects people from harm.

I stress that the regulations issued under Section 20 of the Health and Social Care Act 2008, which Clause 1 amends, apply to registered providers of health and adult social care in England. There are two important points here. First, the regulations do not apply to individual members of staff but to the providers of care. In that respect, they offer protection to staff as well as to patients and service users. Secondly, the scope of the regulations is not restricted to the health service but applies also to adult social care. In that respect, the scope of the clause is broader than that of the noble Baroness’s amendment. For that reason, I prefer the current wording, which offers the same protection to patients and service users wherever they receive care, not just in the NHS.

The noble Baroness asked whether the clause applies to all care organisations, including those in the voluntary sector. All providers of regulated activities must register with the CQC and meet the registration requirements, including voluntary sector and independent sector providers. She also asked whether the regulations will be consulted on and subject to affirmative resolution. The answer to both questions is yes, but having said that, the fundamental standards regulations are consistent with the objective of Clause 1. Those regulations were consulted on and were subject to affirmative resolution. Any future regulations amending or replacing those regulations would also be consulted on and, unless the changes are minor, would be subject to affirmative resolution.

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[Lord Turnberg]

My Lords, I listened extremely carefully to what the noble Earl has just said and I am grateful to him for clarifying what a registered person is—I think that it is the word “person” that gets very personal here. I remain somewhat concerned about whether legislation to stop avoidable harm is a feasible proposition.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

Perhaps I may say to my noble friend that I think that the noble Lord, Lord Ribeiro, should wind up first and then he should come back.

[Lord Ribeiro (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that intervention, and I thank my noble friend the Minister for his succinct answers in respect of Clause 1 and the four amendments that have been tabled. Before I respond to the amendments in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Turnberg and Lord Warner, and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, I would point out that I have heard reference in the Chamber again today to zero harm. Clause 1 is not about zero harm but rather about reducing harm. It is very important that we make that clear right at the beginning as well as right at the end.

The noble Lords, Lord Turnberg and Lord Warner, do not object in their amendments to placing a clear duty on the Secretary of State, as defined in the Bill, and they recognise that the clause places an obligation on the Secretary of State to include steps to reduce avoidable harm in the requirements for registration with the CQC. However, they argue against including the term “no avoidable harm” and would prefer it to be replaced by “reducible harm”. We will get there. It is important to note that it is the providers of health and adult social care services in England that are required to register with the CQC, not individual members of staff. Again, the concerns that the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, expressed at the beginning were about the perception that this obligation would fall to individual practitioners or health and care workers. It does not. It is very much defined as being on those who are registered with the CQC. That cannot be clarified enough. I think that my noble friend the Minister made that point.

At Second Reading, the noble Lord, Lord Willis of Knaresborough—he is unfortunately not here today, but has been supportive of the Bill—and I attempted to blow away the myth of zero harm, which implies something negative that will impact adversely on healthcare professionals when something goes wrong. The fundamental standards, which have been referred to, become law on 1 April. They will not be changed by the Bill, which places a duty on providers to ensure that safe systems are in place for the care of patients. It is about putting safe systems into place, just as in the airline industry you need safe systems in place to ensure that disasters do not occur.

Clause 1 is in no way critical of the new fundamental standards, which meet the demands of the clause. As the noble Lord, Lord Warner, said, NHS providers have sought assurances on this point, and I think they have been given. In their report, they also asked how the Government will avoid the clause creating a clinical culture with staff fearful of taking controlled risks and reporting mistakes. I think that education and training of the workforce will be used to ensure that that does not happen.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, was also concerned about some aspects of Clause 1 and the effect that the Bill will have on the Secretary of State’s position. The Bill removes the Secretary of State’s discretion in determining whether the legal minimum standards for providers of health and adult social care cover the requirement to move towards no avoidable harm. This is so central to the quality and safety of services that it is right that there is no possibility of future Secretaries of State electing not to cover this area in the registration requirements. That is one of the principal reasons why it is important to have Clause 1 in the Bill and not just rely on the fundamental standards.

I mentioned training and education. The noble Lord, Lord Turnberg, expressed his considerable concerns about the culture, fear and frustration that the Bill will create, rather than openness and willingness. I will address his Amendments 2 and 3 by referring to the Department of Health’s response to the Francis report in its document Culture Change in the NHS, which recognises the importance of health education and safety. The Berwick advisory group has been mentioned a lot during our discussions, along with the health foundation. The Berwick review recommended that,

“all healthcare professionals receive initial and ongoing education on the principles and practices of patient safety, on measurement of quality and patient safety, and on skills for engaging patients actively”.

Health Education England’s commission on education and training for patient safety, chaired by Sir Norman Williams, a past president of the Royal College of Surgeons, and Sir Keith Pearson, the current president of NHS England, set out proposals for enhancing safety training for all health and care professionals covering four themes: how to raise concerns about patient safety; human factors, which are increasingly important for patient safety, particularly in surgery; mandatory training to improve patient safety; and service improvement for patient-centred outcome and patient safety.

The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, expressed concern that the Bill might stifle the reporting of errors. Berwick recommended a number of measures to ensure the effective reporting of serious incidents and prompt action in response. Many such measures, such as the new national patient safety alerting system, are already in place, and 17 alerts have been issued in the past year. I believe that the learning and training tools are in place, and NHS England is working with the Health Foundation to implement Berwick’s recommendations. Where a provider takes the necessary steps to mitigate the safety risks, this will allow front-line staff to focus on the treatment and care needs of patients and service users. Far too often we have heard it said that practitioners are looking up to managers rather than looking down at their patients. This Bill, if implemented, will provide them with the knowledge and comfort that safety systems are in place and that, if they fail, it will be the provider who stands accused, not the professional. I hope that that will give some reassurance to the noble Lord, Lord Turnberg.

I was heartened to see the heading of Amendment 4, which was tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay. Although I do not agree with the substance of the amendment, it does make the point that “reducing harm in care” is what this Bill is about. Many speakers in our earlier debate, including my noble friend the Minister, referred to reducing avoidable harm. The noble Lord, Lord Hunt, also talked about the checklist. At Second Reading, in response to the point about checklists, I said that colleges and speciality associations totally support the proposal. As the Minister pointed out, the checklists are mandatory and disciplinary action will be taken if they are not followed.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

Does the noble Lord agree that there is a problem at the moment in that organisations feel somewhat inhibited in taking action against consultants? There are two things—the checklist itself, and then the consultant’s approach and attitude to the checklist. It would be very helpful to have support from the Royal College of Surgeons and other bodies alongside that of the Government to put a bit of backbone into the boards of organisations.

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In concluding, I reiterate that there is an opportunity here to improve the experience of disabled people in hospital and care settings through a greater understanding among professionals of their needs. I hope that the Minister can provide reassurances today and that guidance will reflect this. I hope also that the noble Earl will commit to an ongoing dialogue with the charities that I referred to earlier, the professionals with expertise in this area, and, of course, disabled people and their families.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, this has been an interesting debate. I thought that the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, raised some important points in relation to the definition of “best interests”. Because she referred to a number of identification streams within the health service, I ought to declare my interest as president of GS1 UK, the barcode association. Barcoding is, of course, another indicator that can be used.

I recently had an interesting discussion in Solihull with people who are helping the integration board that is aiming to bring health and social care together to provide integrated services. It was interesting to get an insight from a company that is helping the statutory providers to do this by confronting situations in which individuals are provided with services from a number of different statutory agencies but where there is, seemingly, no co-ordination at all between them. One often gets professionals arriving at the same time but not communicating with each other. This is partly due to the problem over information systems.

I should like to ask whether the noble Earl considers that the passage of the Bill will help the integration of that information, provided that the public have confidence in the process under which information is shared. There is clearly a balance to be drawn between the benefit of information sharing between statutory bodies in terms of integrating provision, alongside the safeguards necessary to the public. One should be in no doubt that this is quite a tension. Yesterday, the parliamentary Intelligence and Security Committee published a report on the holding of information by the security services. Reading it gives some cause for concern, in many cases, about the amount of information available about individuals. Although, as I understand it, the committee report says that that information is often never referred to or used, it none the less could be. The whole issue regarding the integrity of confidential information is important. On the other hand, we know that we have considerable failures in service because there is no sharing of information. The point that the noble Baroness raised about what we mean by “best interests” and the issue of how we can ensure public confidence is extremely important.

I support the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, which offers an opportunity to debate the importance of including people’s communication needs in the information shared between health and care professionals. I have received helpful briefing from Mencap, the RNIB, the National Autistic Society and Sense. It has become abundantly clear that failure to understand the best way in which to talk to individuals can result in misunderstandings, misdiagnosis and, ultimately, poor care. Accessible and easy-to-read information, perhaps with pictures, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Hollins, referred, and the presence of family, advocates or interpreters, can make the difference between diagnosis and misdiagnosis.

It would be very helpful if the noble Earl could clarify that the communication needs of disabled people and the reasonable adjustments that they might need will be an important part of the health information that should be shared between professionals. I certainly hope that he is willing to place on record that guidance associated with the Bill will reflect this and that it will reach the relevant professionals.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, let me turn first to Amendment 5. I understand the noble Baroness’s concern that there should be no confusion over the “best interests” wording in the Bill and the more technical and prescribed “best interests” checklist test in the Mental Capacity Act 2005. The key point for me to emphasise straightaway is that in this Bill the phrase “best interests” is ascribed its ordinary meaning: the consideration of a range of factors, including the wishes of the individual. Nothing in the Bill detracts from patient autonomy or the importance of supportive partnership working between clinicians and patients. This is in marked contrast to the “best interests” test checklist found in the Mental Capacity Act, which the noble Baroness was instrumental in shaping. In that Act, which concerns individuals who lack capacity, the term is not defined. A checklist of considerations helps professionals to determine what a patient’s best interests are.

The information-sharing provisions of the Bill respond to concerns expressed by the National Data Guardian. Dame Fiona Caldicott, in her 2013 review of information sharing, identified a risk-averse culture and concluded that the duty to share information for a person’s own direct care should be considered as equally important as the duty of confidentiality. I quote from her review:

“Health and social care professionals should have the confidence to share information in the best interests of their patients”.

These provisions seek to establish that sentiment in law.

The presence of the phrase “best interests” in this Bill ensures that it complies with the central principle of the Data Protection Act and the Caldicott review: to share information only where necessary and relevant. The term “best interests” is used elsewhere in primary legislation, including in the Human Fertilisation and Embryology Act 1990 and Section 38 of the Medical Act 1983. It was also used more recently in the Charities Act 2011, the Legal Services Act 2007, and in the Pensions Schemes Act 2015, which received Royal Assent last week—all are without reference to the checklist in Section 4 of the Mental Capacity Act. It is a term used across a wide-ranging legislative landscape with its ordinary meaning.

The “best interests” test in this Bill is no different from that in the pensions Act or the Legal Services Act. It requires a professional to apply a common-sense approach. I appreciate the noble Baroness’s concern that the use of the word “best” could herald a return to a “doctor knows best” kind of paternalism and to disempowering patients in the process. I sincerely hope that I can convince her that this is neither the intent nor the effect of this Bill. I am sure that the whole House will agree that the focus of information sharing should be on the needs of the individual, rather than defensive, risk-adverse behaviour of the type we have sometimes seen in the past.

I can confirm that the Department of Health will provide guidance to support the interpretation of these new duties. This will include a clarification that the term “best interests” is ascribed its ordinary meaning. The Government will also amend the Explanatory Notes to that effect.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, that was a very helpful response. May I just ask the noble Earl whether explicit examples will be given in the guidance? The issue of professional defensiveness is very important. He will know that, out in the field, people often have a different view about data protection. Sometimes it gets in the way of sensible, professional working together. I urge that the guidance should be as practical as possible and that it should be aimed at field workers, rather than just the organisations they work for. Let us take as examples care workers, health service workers, health visitors and nurses, in regard to whom it is clearly in an individual’s best interests that information is shared about visits, and that sometimes responsibilities are shared, and that they are not inhibited because of some myth about their inability to share information.

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[Lord Elton]

My Lords, given the undertaking that we are not going to divide on this, I am tempted on to my feet to remind your Lordships that, although we have talked about the Climbié case, this goes back to the case of Maria Colwell in 1975, when Lord Goronwy-Roberts, the Labour Minister for Health in this House, was successful in beginning the setting up of at-risk registers. That was a long time ago and yet we still have not solved the issue of the breakdown of information sharing between agencies, voluntary and otherwise. I encourage my noble friend to leave a note on his desk, to which we all hope he will return after the election, reminding himself to get on with this.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, I am not sure about the noble Lord’s latter point. I think my noble friend has done us a great service in raising this issue. Since we are talking about unique personal identifiers again, perhaps I may first remind the House of my presidency of the bar-coding association, GS1.

As a resident of Birmingham, I thank my noble friend for his work as the Children’s Commissioner, which has been invaluable. Your Lordships will have a great opportunity to discuss these matters further on Monday night after we debate standardised packaging of cigarettes, because I have a Motion to Take Note on the Birmingham electoral order, which changes the electoral cycle in Birmingham following the work of the three commissions and the Permanent Secretary at the DCLG.

On the substantive point, my noble friend raised the case of Victoria Climbié, on which I well remember making the Statement to this House a long time ago now. What was so striking in that report was that she went through, I think, at least eight or nine public agencies. If any one of them had talked to another, it is likely that she would still be alive today. It was a shocking report, because there were so many failures by so many different organisations. Although, inevitably, the local authority always tends to be the focus of concern, neither the health service nor the police covered themselves in glory. I am not really in a position to commit the Opposition in exactly the way that my noble friend wants, but if the noble Earl would like to institute some urgent cross-party discussions with my noble friend, we would certainly be very happy to take part.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, to start with a given, I am sure I speak for the whole Committee when I say that we are all committed to taking whatever steps are necessary to protect children from abuse and neglect. Clauses 2 and 3 are, as they stand, based on long-standing policy intentions. They have real buy-in and support from those who will need to deliver them.

As regards children’s social care and wider children’s services, the difficulty with proceeding without delay in the direction that the noble Lord, Lord Warner, is advocating is that we do not yet have robust evidence on the impact of the potential burdens and risks of an extension of these duties. Moving to the use of a common identifier for the education and children’s social care sector would represent a substantial change. In the discussions that I have had on this, I have been persuaded that it is only right that we fully understand and assess the impact before considering legislation.

However, I can give the noble Lord, Lord Warner, some hopeful news. I am pleased to inform him that the Department for Education has committed to undertake an evidence-gathering exercise to understand fully the impact of adopting a consistent identifier for these types of provision. That exercise is expected to report before the end of the year. I hope the noble Lord will understand that we would not want to pre-empt the outcome of that or make decisions now on behalf of Ministers in the next Government, who will wish to consider the evidence once it is available.

The amendment would also have the effect of creating a power to extend Clauses 2 and 3 to other public bodies where there was evidence that this would benefit the health and well-being or protection of children. I recognise and welcome the sentiment and reasoning behind the desire to extend the information-sharing duty under this Bill to encompass child protection issues. As I have already assured the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, there are clear requirements on professionals to share information to protect children. I hope that reassurance is helpful.

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[Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, for tabling these amendments to Clause 5 and for her characteristically clear introduction. As noble Lords may remember from Second Reading, I too have concerns about Clause 5 in my role as chair of the Professional Standards Authority. I said then that there had been a misunderstanding of the role of the authority and that I was afraid that the Bill would make our objectives unclear and narrow the scope of our work. I was also concerned lest the Bill would in any way make it less clear that the primary and overarching role of the Professional Standards Authority is public protection. The Minister said then that his officials were happy to continue discussions, and I am pleased to say that there have been helpful conversations and meetings with the noble Lord promoting the Bill, the Minister and his officials. I am grateful for the care and attention that have been given to our concerns.

None the less, I take the opportunity that the noble Baroness’s amendment gives me to ask the Minister again to clarify that the Professional Standards Authority will never be required to prioritise the objective of promoting public confidence in the professions over its primary purpose of protecting and promoting the health, safety and well-being of patients, service users and other members of the public. In other words, could there ever be circumstances in which public confidence might conflict with public health, safety and well-being? Such circumstances might be where the authority identified a poorly performing regulator. If the Minister could give me this clarification, it would help the authority address any arguments that might in future be raised that it should conceal a regulator’s poor performance or otherwise prioritise the objective in new paragraph (b) over that in new paragraph (a).

The confusion about the hierarchy between the objectives in new paragraphs (a) and (b) may have arisen because of the conflation of the PSA’s role with that of the regulators which it oversees. It may have arisen also because Clause 5 does not follow the Law Commission’s recommendation, which proposed a clear main objective for the authority followed by two general objectives. Although the Minister has acknowledged the role of the authority as an overseer of the regulators, it would be helpful if he could provide an assurance that under Clause 5 the main and primary aim and focus of the authority will continue to be to promote the health, safety and well-being of patients, service users and other members of the public.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, some very important points have been raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, and my noble friend Lady Pitkeathley. My regret is that we are dealing with these regulatory matters in this Bill. A number of statutory instruments will also come through your Lordships’ House, one from the GMC, in the next few days.

We had a Law Commission draft Bill which should have been a fifth Session Bill and would have enabled your Lordships to look at the statutory regulation provisions in the round. However, because of the Government’s decision not to proceed with that Bill, not even in pre-legislative scrutiny, we now have to look at this matter in a piecemeal way. It is wholly unsatisfactory. I am very sorry that we are having to deal with these issues in this way without enough time to focus on them properly. I am worried about Clause 5; I think that we are going to let it through without understanding its implications. We would be very grateful for anything that the noble Earl can do to clear this up.

[Earl Howe]

My Lords, I very much hope that I can allay the concerns of both noble Baronesses and the noble Lord. In its report, the Law Commission recommended a consistent main objective for professional regulators and the PSA around patient safety. It also recommended two subsidiary objectives: maintaining confidence in the profession and proper professional standards and conduct. The Law Commission’s report describes this proposal as restating the existing legislative position that public protection is the regulators’ main objective. The Government’s view is that public protection is sufficiently important that it should be expressly adopted in the legislation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Pitkeathley, asked whether public confidence might conflict with public health, safety and well-being. In the example of the Professional Standards Authority identifying a poorly performing regulator, it is clear that the interests of public protection and public health, safety and well-being would require the PSA to take action. In this example, any argument that the objective of promoting and maintaining public confidence in the professions would require the PSA to conceal poor performance would clearly run counter to public protection. The objective of promoting and maintaining public confidence in the professions does not mean that the PSA or the regulatory bodies should be promoting the reputation of the professions generally. Rather, it is about taking action where there is a risk that confidence in the profession as a whole is undermined to the extent that it may deter people from seeking the treatment or care that they need and impact on public protection. This example highlights the fact that while the objectives are all linked to public protection, in practice they may not always necessarily be relevant, or relevant to the same extent in particular cases. It is not a case of one objective overriding another or preventing it being considered but ensuring that they are pursued only where they are relevant to public protection.

The Bill does not prioritise or weight one element of public protection over another. It is for the PSA to determine how it applies those elements in carrying out its functions in relation to the regulators and considering the issues of the case. My view is that health, safety and well-being will always be relevant to public protection when the PSA is carrying out its functions in relation to the regulators. It will be for the PSA to determine how to apply the objectives appropriately.

The noble Baroness asked whether the objective to promote and maintain public confidence might inadvertently lead the regulators to be less transparent in highlighting bad practice. Equally, that might lead to regulatory committees and panels punishing professionals who do not pose any threat to the public. If the actions of a doctor appear likely to reduce confidence in the medical profession and influence the decision of individuals as to whether to seek medical help at all, it may be right to take action. However, panels and committees will be asked to reach their own objective judgment as to whether particular acts or omissions would affect public confidence if no action were taken. A subjective view, uncritically influenced by public opinion or the media, would be an unacceptable basis for a decision.

Turning to the term “well-being”, the BMA has raised concerns with my ministerial colleague Dr Dan Poulter about how it would be interpreted by fitness to practise panels and committees. Well-being has been a long-standing and established feature of the legislation for three of the regulators. It encompasses those aspects of a professional’s role that may have an impact on individual patients but not directly impact on their health or safety. Dignity, compassion and respect are all important in delivering care, and it would not be right to disregard them.

It will be for the regulators to formulate and issue guidance for fitness to practise panels on interpreting and applying the objectives in practice, including the term well-being. The legislation makes clear that those objectives are considered only under the umbrella of public protection.

My officials will draw the regulators’ attention to those concerns should the overarching objective become law. That is in order to inform any guidance that will be needed to implement both this Bill and the secondary legislation for the GMC.

The noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, also asked about how we view the definition of “public” in the Bill. It of course includes patients and service users, as well as other parts of the collective public. I hope that that reassures the noble Baroness that the objectives in relation to well-being and public confidence will not be pursued outside the regulators’ objective to protect the public.