Brexit: Environmental Regulation

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the arrangements for environmental protection and upholding environmental standards between the date of the United Kingdom leaving the European Union and the establishment of any new environmental regulation regime.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and secondary legislation will bring existing EU environmental law into domestic law so that it continues to operate after exit. We will enhance standards through the world-leading Environment Bill and the office for environmental protection, the OEP. Our intention is for the OEP to be operational from 1 January 2021. Before that, we will remain subject to EU oversight during the transitional period in the withdrawal agreement until 31 December 2020.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am most grateful to my noble friend for that Answer. There is concern that the level of “appropriate” standards has been reduced to “adequate” standards in the revised EU withdrawal legislation. Can my noble friend put my mind—and the minds of environmentalists at large—at rest that that will not mean a reduction of standards and that the Government are committed to keeping the highest possible level of environmental standards and protection? What will the compliance mechanism be in the interim period before the OEP is legally given effect?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said, the interim arrangements would not apply under the description of events that I have, which is that we bring forward a deal, that deal is agreed and there is a withdrawal Act. As my noble friend said, that legislation is very important, and I am sure that during its passage it will be made absolutely clear that we intend to champion the environment. We want the highest possible standards and understand that the situation is grave. As to “adequate” and other measures, I am not a lawyer but I can only assure your Lordships that we are very determined to enhance the environment.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why the Boris Johnson version of the withdrawal Bill specifically left out the clause—known as the non-regression clause—which guaranteed that we would not fall below current environmental standards? Can he clarify what plans are now in place to reverse that decision and introduce legislation to give legal certainty on that issue? I know that the Environment Bill is coming our way, but will the precise issue of non-regression be in it?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, perhaps the easiest thing is to read out the Prime Minister’s text, in reply to a question precisely on non-regression:

“The crucial thing that will reassure her is that in the event of the EU bringing forward new legislation, we in this Government will bring forward an amendable motion so that the House may choose to match those standards”.—[Official Report, Commons, 22/10/19; col. 831.]


We are very clear. We are in the market not of non-regression but of moving forward. We need to enhance the environment. That is the predication of the OEP and the work of the Environment Bill whenever it comes forward.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, on the carbon side of environmental standards, is it worth noting that the EU has not done well at all, what with the banning of nuclear power and rising emissions in Germany and a vastly greater intake of Russian gas? Does he not agree that, once we are outside the European Union—provided that we are successful in our replacement of nuclear power—we can go for much higher standards than those that prevail within the European Union?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, my noble friend has hit on something absolutely crucial. We need to ensure that we lead. That is indeed why this country was the first in the world to introduce legally binding greenhouse gas emission targets. We were the first country to set a legally binding target to achieve net zero greenhouse gas emissions. All this is the direction of travel in which we wish to go. We should be ambitious about that; I agree with my noble friend.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend the Minister agree that all this works only if we do not undermine those things by agreeing international trading arrangements that allow other people to export into this country goods and services that do not reach the same standards? Is it not true that those in charge of international trade in this Government have not been as committed to our environmental standards as other members of the Government?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Well, this member of the Government is delighted to say that the United Kingdom is a world leader on animal welfare and environmental standards. We will not water down our standards as part of trade negotiations; I have said that before. We are committed to making sure that any future trade agreements work for consumers, farmers and businesses across the United Kingdom.

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD)]

My Lords, what would happen to complaints already with the Commission? Are any arrangements in place for them to be received and acted on during the interregnum?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Yes, during the period up to 31 December, under the relevant clause—I cannot remember which—of the withdrawal Bill, there would be EU oversight of all the arrangements. The point, as I mentioned, is that the OEP is due to come in on 1 January 2021. It would then take over the oversight.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Government confirm that there would be nothing to prevent them adopting the European standards and going further if they wished?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I hope I used the word “ambition”. This country has been world-leading and we have an ambition to continue to be world-leading. Yes, we want to enhance the environment and do better than the rest of the EU.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, we have heard a lot of promises from the Minister, which I am sure he will keep. One was about the office for environmental protection. We have had three Brexit extensions and it is well over a year since we were first promised that it would exist. Why has this been so slow? There is no way of enforcing any of the challenges to what is happening.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

We have the ability to challenge through the Commission’s oversight. The point is that the OEP is designed precisely to replace that Commission oversight. There is a lot of ambition about the OEP. We will obviously consider it during the Environment Bill. It will be a very powerful independent body, which will hold public authorities to account. I think that is what we all want.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the withdrawal agreement is only the end of the beginning? If the Government are already talking about diverging from EU regulations and standards, what are the chances of a free trade agreement with our biggest trading partner, which makes up 50% of our trade?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I said, we are very clear that we will not compromise any of the standards I have described, whether on animal welfare, the environment or food safety. We have a reputation for those things in this country and we want to build on it.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Why are noble Lords so negative about this great country?

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I can perhaps give you an idea of why we might be negative. Those of us who worked on the Trade Bill very much addressed the issues that the noble Lord, Lord Deben, just spoke of, on enshrining in law the security of regulation going forward. That Bill was scrapped. Does the Minister understand why some people might be somewhat sceptical when they hear the things they are hearing now, given the evidence of that Bill being scrapped?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, the truth is that the Bill was not scrapped; with the passage of time and where we are—having a general election—we will have to start again with the Environment Bill, too. The noble Lord is pushing the language a bit. On the Trade Bill, I think I said that we will reflect on what your Lordships said on those matters. What happened in this House was very important. I have put it on the record once and will do so again: your Lordships were extremely helpful and constructive in considering those matters.

Common Fisheries Policy and Animals (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Monday 4th November 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 7 October be approved.

Relevant document: 2nd Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 30 October.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I have a question for the Minister in relation to this, whether or not it came up in the Grand Committee. How will this be dealt with in the period now? We are dissolving tomorrow. Is this the final approval of it? How will it be affected by whether the proposals put forward by the various parties go ahead—if the Conservative Party were to win the election, if the Labour Party were to win, or if, as Ms Swinson keeps telling us, the Liberal Democrats were to win and we were to have an immediate revocation of Article 50? What would be the effect on these and the other, similar regulations?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

If the noble Lord had joined us in the Moses Room, he would have understood that these regulations are to ensure that our statute book is up to date on leaving. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, was in the Moses Room. This instrument was to ensure that a number of changes coming from the EU are incorporated. Our purpose is to ensure that we have the most up-to-date statute book, and we are using the opportunity of every scenario. The noble Baroness and other Members of your Lordships’ House have been engaged in considering these statutory instruments precisely to ensure—in this case on common fisheries, but also on animals and transportation—that any changes that had taken place up to the current time from the EU, the Commission, were incorporated. That was the matter at hand.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I apologise for not having been able to be there in October. I was looking after the interests of the Minister and other Members of this House at the meeting of the Council for Democratic Elections in Venice. As it happens, we were discussing very interesting things such as foreign interference in our elections—the kind of matter we were talking about in the PNQ earlier. I can tell noble Lords from that meeting in Venice that there is increasing concern about foreign—not just Russian, but particularly Russian —interference in our elections. That is why I was not here; we cannot be in two places at once.

I do not think the Minister has answered the question about how we are going to deal with a plethora of regulations—and there is a plethora; I am not sure what the latest figure is for how many hundreds of regulations we have considered—in the three different scenarios. I understand that the Government’s proposal is to leave the European Union one way or another—do or die, in a ditch, or whatever—by the end of January; I think that is the latest date. A Labour Government will look again at renegotiation and put it back to the people. If the Liberal Democrats were to win the election, Ms Swinson were to become Prime Minister and Article 50 were to be revoked, what happens to these regulations? How do we deal with them? What are the prospects for further consideration when we come back?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Speaking on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government, obviously I hope there will be the return of a Conservative Government, but the noble Lord is absolutely right that all sorts of different scenarios are possible. Our task with this statutory instrument was to have reassurance on our statute book and certainty that, whenever we left, the statute book was complete with everything that the European Commission and the Union had changed.

As much as I would enjoy having a discussion about would happen if the noble Lord’s party or the Liberal Democrats win the general election, all I can say is that we did a useful piece of work in the Moses Room to ensure that the correct statutory instruments were in place. The changes were all technical and on operability points, so there are no policy changes at all. It has the consent of the devolved Administrations. They are technical, but they went through all the required prisms.

Unless your Lordships wish it, I do not think there is a great deal of purpose in discussing the “might be” scenarios of what will come out of the general election. The truth is that none of us has a vote. It will be for the electorate to decide what they want in taking the matter forward. I am delighted that this statutory instrument has had this embellishment, because it is a very technical instrument, which we dealt with in the Moses Room. All I can say is that, yes, the result of the general election will have an impact on all these matters and legislation, and on the Queen’s Speech for the new Parliament.

This afternoon, I cannot gaze into a crystal ball to help the noble Lord. All I know is that, if there is a return of the Conservative Government, we have a deal and we will put it to Parliament. All the legislation discussed earlier will come forward, so we will have proper oversight. Most importantly, the discussions that we had on, I have to say, probably over 180 statutory instruments in the Defra family, were precisely so that we had certainty about keeping up with up-to-date changes from the EU—and yes, we made one or two amendments because of typographical errors and so on, which I always regret.

I think that is where I have to leave it. The noble Lord is going into a much wider political discussion about what will happen to the statute book after a general election. The electorate might help us with that.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

I have just one further point to raise. I thank the Minister; as always, he is really helpful. He is a Minister who knows his brief extremely well and answers questions. As he pointed out, none of us has a vote in the upcoming election—something that, by the way, needs to be sorted as quickly as possible. It cannot be done by the next election, but it had better be done by the one after that.

The Minister has very helpfully answered a question for me: there were 180 instruments from Defra alone, and hundreds more from all the other departments. The cost of these hundreds and hundreds of regulations —using the time of these wonderful civil servants and everyone else involved, and our own time—has to be added to the hundreds of millions of pounds spent on “Get Ready for Brexit: a total waste of money preparing for 31 October—“do or die”, “die in a ditch”, or whatever other phrases were used by the Prime Minister. Hundreds of millions of pounds was spent hiring ferries, twice; once from a ferry company that did not have any ferries and, more recently, very cleverly, from a ferry company that did have ferries. But now they have to be paid, and we do not need the ferries any more. Hundreds of millions of pounds have been wasted by the Government. That is the legacy we face.

The sooner that the British people realise what the Tories are up to, the more likely it is that—with no disrespect to the Minister, who I praised earlier as being an exceptional Minister—this will be, if not his last, his second-last day at the government Dispatch Box.

Farm Subsidies

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their policy on farm subsidies after 2020.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests, as set out in the register. Continuity for farmers is important and 2020 direct payments will be paid in the same way as they are now. From 2021, there will be a seven-year transition to our new policy supporting farmers for the public goods they provide, in particular through their stewardship of the farmed environment. We will phase out direct payments, with the reduction starting in 2021. Financial support for farmers to increase their productivity and enhanced animal welfare will also be available.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that reply. I am sure he agrees that farming has a huge potential to reverse declines in biodiversity and to take carbon out of the atmosphere. But farmers are not clear about what will be expected of them and how a new payment system will work after 2020. The Government had previously pledged the same cash total in funds for farm support until the end of this Parliament, which was originally expected to be 2022. Given that the end of the Parliament is being brought forward, does that guarantee still stand? Is the operative date for full continuation of the payments now 2022 or 2025?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, clearly there will be a new Parliament. It will be for whoever is successful in the election to take this forward. This Government are very clear that farmers deserve support. The noble Baroness is right: with 70% of the land in this country farmed, the farming community is essential if we are to enhance the environment. Our intention is clearly to continue with the transition period. There will be tests and trials, and—this is important—we will be working with farmers to ensure a scheme that is straightforward and creates results.

[Lord Cunningham of Felling (Lab)]

My Lords, if what the Minister has just said is true, why do the Government intend to allow the import of eggs produced to lower husbandry and hygiene standards and likely to undermine the massive advances we have made in this country thanks to egg producers the length and breadth of the United Kingdom? The very future of the industry will be put at risk if the Government allow that to happen.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I have said from this Dispatch Box, with what I hope noble Lords will understand is every sincerity, that we have no intention of changing environmental and animal welfare standards. It is absolutely the case that we have taken on to our statute book every single protection there is already through our membership of the EU and that is where we are going to proceed from. I have also said that under the new arrangements, we will support farmers to enhance animal welfare. We do not propose to preside over a reduction in animal welfare.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend rule out any importation of battery hens or eggs that are produced in battery cages? Will he also consider extremely carefully the implications for pig farmers of banning farrowing crates, bearing in mind that many of them went out of business in the 1990s when a previous Conservative Government introduced the sow stall and tether ban? Further, will he make a commitment to livestock producers that we will keep under close review the future of the live trade in farm animals?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, there has always been a tradition of transporting live animals for breeding and other matters that we have done with our great stock over many years, but we are concerned about transport arrangements and about moving animals for slaughter away from our shores. These are matters that we will be attending to. We will be working with the Farm Animal Welfare Committee, as well as industry, retailers and welfare groups, to develop proposals on enhancing farm welfare standards because we think that the British farmer has a very good reputation that we wish to enhance.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, while it is extremely important for British farmers to help restore the balance between the use of the land and introducing wildflower meadows to ensure the return of insects and birds, this must be balanced with food production. There will be a cut to direct payments, which the Minister has already referred to, that is to come in in 2021, and the payments will have been eradicated by 2027. Farmers previously receiving £30,000 will see a 5% cut in the first year, while those receiving payments of up to £150,000 will see a 25% cut. Does the Minister agree that those who nurture the land for biodiversity as well as for producing food should be rewarded for doing so?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, as I have said, we will be testing and trialling the environmental land management scheme that is to come in in 2024. We will also bring forward a countryside stewardship agreement between now and 2024. We believe that in the future, farmers will be well placed through their participation in the new ELM scheme. However, the noble Baroness is right to say that there is a balance to be struck; we require our excellent food to be grown for home consumption and for export, and we need to do that within the prism of enhancing the environment.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, will the totality of the net payments to the whole of the agricultural industry be maintained during the transition period and afterwards?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, that is clearly for the Treasury and whoever is in the new Government, so at this stage I cannot say that to the noble and learned Lord. It will be for whichever Government are in office to decide on their spending commitments. What I am absolutely clear on is that this Government continue to support farmers in the way I have described and, if re-elected, that is the system which we will bring forward.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, what support will there be for hill farmers, who I believe will suffer a 25% duty on lamb that is exported to the continent? Is the reimbursement of that 25%, or whatever it is, part of this support package?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

We think that there is a great future for British livestock farming. We will support the work of hill farmers, because of the enhancement to the environment in beautiful areas where pastoral farming has been so essential. We will support that sector, as I have said. As for the point about a loss, in securing the deal that we have, we will also then embark on a free trade arrangement with our EU friends and partners. I do not think that what the noble Lord has described will obtain.

Plastics Recycling

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to introduce a single national system for recycling plastics in England to maximise efficiency and encourage participation.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to increasing recycling rates. The Environment Bill introduces legislation that will allow us to ensure that local authorities collect a core set of recyclable materials, including plastics, from households from 2023. We will also introduce measures to encourage producers to use plastic packaging that can be recycled. Together with the plastic packaging tax, these measures will reduce difficult to recycle packaging and promote the use of recyclable plastic.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe (Con)]

My Lords, while I am delighted that the establishment of an England-wide recycling system is now government policy, I am dismayed by the proposed delay until 2023. Does the Minister agree that, as soon as the powers in the Environment Bill are through, we should make an order setting out a single new system that could apply more or less immediately to most local authorities? That could include everything from plastic bottles to plastic pots, tubs and trays, as in the White Paper. Does he also agree that we need clear labelling of what can be recycled and, I suggest, an imaginative information campaign, so that frustrated housewives like myself, businesses and children in our schools know what to recycle?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am as keen for action as my noble friend is and have asked similar questions myself. However, waste managers and local authorities will need time to install the necessary facilities and infrastructure, hence the start date, in its totality, of 2023. Currently, 100% of local authorities in England collect plastic bottles, and 78% collect plastic pots, tubs and trays. We can make progress already. We also agree that clear labelling is essential, and we will consult next year on final proposals because clearly, we must help to inform consumers better.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, may I push the Minister on this? The year 2023 seems a very long way away. It is not as though this is a new idea; it has been trialled and talked about considerably over the last couple of years. We need action on this now. There is huge public demand for action on tackling plastics, so why are the Government not able to move this agenda along more quickly? This is a really important issue that the Great British public care about.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I absolutely agree with the noble Baroness that we need to make progress on this issue. We have been stalling on recycling and need to do much better. But think of the materials that will be in this core set: plastics, glass, metal, paper, food waste and garden waste. For certain local authorities—one thinks of Newham, which, at 14%, has the lowest recycling rate in the country—we will have to ensure that they change their systems absolutely. I said that this will be comprehensive in 2023, but many local authorities are already undertaking good work on this.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the initiative to introduce plastic parks, which will use revolutionary British technology to convert unrecyclable plastics into hydrogen, as a fuel source, as well as to generate electricity?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The noble Lord refers to the really important work that needs to proceed: research into how we move from a wasteful economy to a circular one. I absolutely endorse that we need to be working more on research. For instance, we are undertaking work on biodegradable and bio-based plastics and BEIS is considering those proposals. There are issues, however, and we do not want unintended consequences.

[Baroness Parminter (LD)]

My Lords, given the vast amount of plastic film used in food packaging, what are the Government doing to increase the amount available for recycling?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Again, here, industry has a number of pressure points. One is the packaging tax—a new tax on plastic packaging—which will take effect from April 2022 and will apply to plastic packaging with less than 30% recycled content. There are a number of others, such as extending producer responsibility. We must not always knock industry because there are many examples of it seeking an alternative, such as plastic-free aisles and different sorts of packaging. I agree that one of the most frustrating things is that we cannot currently put plastic film in our recycling bins.

[Viscount Trenchard (Con)]

I declare an interest as a director of Lotte Chemical UK, which is the principal manufacturer of polyethylene terephthalate or PET. I was surprised to hear the Minister say that many councils are now collecting used material and providing it for recycling, because Lotte Chemical is able to obtain only enough recycled material to form 10% of our finished products. We wish to increase that to about 28%. Does the Minister agree that the Government should concentrate on establishing a standardised recycling policy across the whole country rather than encourage the use of substitute materials, which can have more negative consequences?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

We sometimes need to be careful about unintended consequences, which is why we have considered biodegradable and bio-based plastics. Some 13.5 billion plastic bottles are used in the UK each year; the current household recycling rate for them is 70%. Thirty per cent is not good, but I will take back what my noble friend has said because that is quite a lot of bottles to recycle.

[Lord Swinfen (Con)]

What is being done to clear up the large number of plastic bottles and other containers that are discarded alongside rural roads?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it is a question of education and awareness. How do we discourage the one in five people in our great country who actually admit that they drop litter? I understand the pressures on local authorities and volunteers who, like me, pick up litter, but this situation is unacceptable. The truth is that we will crack this thoroughly only when everyone in the country, starting from the next generation, thinks that it is not acceptable to drop litter.

Common Fisheries Policy and Animals (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2019 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Common Fisheries Policy and Animals (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

Relevant document: 2nd Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, this instrument makes technical amendments to ensure that retained EU law is effective and enforceable while also providing continuity to businesses and protection for the environment. No policy changes are being made and no change is expected in the way that the fishing industry conducts its activities as a result of this instrument.

The principal purpose of these regulations is to amend EU legislation that has come into effect since the previous fisheries EU exit SIs were made. This instrument will ensure that existing technical conservation measures continue to apply as part of UK law and will maintain the effective operation in UK waters of long-term plans for the sustainable management of fish stocks in the North Sea and the western waters. Where provisions confer powers to exercise legislative functions on the EU Commission or member states, those references are, generally speaking, changed to “a fisheries administration”.

The SI before your Lordships makes a number of adjustments to three pieces of retained EU legislation, but they make no changes to policy. First, it makes updates to the technical conservation regulation, which outlines technical rules that fishing vessels must adhere to for conservation purposes. This regulation is essential for the management of the fisheries activities of UK vessels wherever they are, and non-UK vessels in UK waters. The technical conservation regulation was previously made operable in retained UK law through an EU exit statutory instrument made in March 2019. However, the EU subsequently introduced revisions to that regulation in July. The UK was fully engaged in the process of revising the regulation which makes important changes, such as introducing a ban on pulse fishing from July 2021 and measures to support implementation of the landing obligation. UK fishermen are currently bound by the EU regulation, which is important to protect the marine environment, and the changes we are discussing today will ensure that they continue to fish to the latest standards by making the regulation operate in UK law.

Secondly, this SI completes the transfer of the North Sea multiannual plan into retained EU law. This establishes long-term plans for the recovery and sustainable management of mixed fisheries in the North Sea. The bulk of the legislation has previously been made operable in UK law. This SI completes the process by bringing across legislative powers necessary to introduce or amend the details of the plan. These powers to make legislation were previously conferred upon the European Commission, whereas they will now be exercisable by UK Administrations, and parliamentarians will be able to scrutinise them in a way that has not been possible hitherto.

Thirdly, this SI makes necessary amendments to the western waters multiannual plan. Almost identical to the North Sea multiannual plan, this establishes a long-term plan for the recovery and sustainable management of mixed fisheries in the western waters, of which UK waters form a part. The instrument makes minor technical changes such as amending references from “Union waters” to “United Kingdom waters” and removing references to “common fisheries policy” or “the Council” to ensure that the legislation operates correctly as part of retained EU law. We are making these amendments to this plan now as it was published only in March 2019, and we were therefore unable to include it in previous instruments.

This instrument also amends previous marine and fisheries EU exit statutory instruments—the Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, the Common Fisheries Policy and Aquaculture (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and the Common Fisheries Policy (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019—as a consequence of changes made to the EU regulations since those previous instruments were passed by this House. Such minor changes include: the revocation of certain regulations relating to regional fisheries management organisations and a Community Fisheries Control Agency, which have been revoked at EU level and which will therefore no longer form part of retained EU law, and a minor change to the amendments to the North Sea discard plan, which has since been amended by the Commission. This ensures that our amendments to retained EU law are up to date with the legislation which will be transferred on to the UK statute book by the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 on exit day.

I am afraid that there were a number of typographical errors in these previous instruments which we have taken the opportunity to correct: for instance, replacing a reference to the singular “member state” with the plural, “member states”. We have also changed a handful of amendments to the annual EU TAC and quotas regulation, made by a previous instrument. In particular, we have amended provisions relating to commercial and recreational bass fishing to ensure continuity of approach after we leave the EU.

Finally, we have taken the opportunity to amend the Animals (Legislative Functions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 to prevent duplicate amendments to the retained EU law version of Council Regulation (EC) No. 1/2005 on the protection of animals during transport and related operations. In particular, it removes an unnecessary power to make regulations about animals not covered by the regulation’s annexes. This power, which was originally conferred on member states, is not necessary because we are rolling forward a power—originally conferred on the European Council—to amend the annexes themselves. Similarly, a second amendment to a technical rule for transporting horses has been removed because it duplicated an amendment made by a different instrument: the Animal Welfare (Amendment) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. Both of these minor changes ensure that we have the tidiest—the word used here—possible statute book before exit.

I reiterate that, although I have raised some substantial matters, particularly on fisheries, these are purely technical changes that are intended to simplify the statute book. They will in no way dilute or alter the ability of the Government to maintain current standards of protection, for instance of animals.

While there is no statutory duty to consult on this instrument, as is customary we have liaised with stakeholders about future fisheries policy as well as the approach taken by this instrument and other instruments made under the EU withdrawal Act. We have worked to ensure that stakeholders understand that this SI makes necessary technical amendments to retained EU law, which will ensure that we maintain a fully functioning and up-to-date statute book. Indeed, stakeholders have expressed gratitude for our engagement with them on this and earlier instruments.

Given that this instrument relates to devolved matters, all four Administrations have given their consent to Defra laying it on their behalf. This means that the powers will be made operable for England, Wales, Scotland, and Northern Ireland after exit. As with our approach to previous fisheries instruments made under the withdrawal Act, we have worked to develop and draft the instrument in close co-operation with each Administration.

This instrument makes retained EU law effective as part of UK law in these important areas. I beg to move.

[The Duke of Montrose (Con)]

My Lords, I have a couple of questions for the Minister, whom I thank for the extensive explanation of this fairly long bit of modification to an existing statutory instrument. As the Minister mentioned, fishing is all devolved, and this will take care of converting EU legislation so that it can be used by the various Administrations. Is any consideration required, or has any taken place, on having a framework for fishing in the UK? So many of the EU powers that are being devolved could do with a UK framework as a background to allowing all these things. However, the various devolved Administrations are very protective of their powers and I realise that it must be difficult to find a framework that will fit. When my noble friend the Minister mentions tidying up the statute book, I wonder whether the Government are relying on individual businesses that are interested in this legislation to correct their own copies. There is a massive amount of alteration in this instrument and if the Government could produce an amalgamated version, that would help.

--- Later in debate ---

Michel Barnier has said that a free-trade agreement could take around three years to negotiate. The Northern Ireland protocol would therefore be in effect until that agreement came into force—or, if there is no deal at the end of the transition period, it would remain in place until 2024 at the earliest. So I would be grateful if the Minister could clarify the status of the catch of Northern Ireland fishers in the different circumstances that may arise over the next four years. I know that this is a specific question, but it is important and goes to the heart of the EU withdrawal arrangements that we are discussing. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I am most grateful to all noble Lords for their rightly penetrating questions. I stress that the purpose of this instrument is overwhelmingly to ensure that we have the most up-to-date statute book. As I say, there are no policy changes in it.

My noble friend the Duke of Montrose and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, asked about devolution. The UK Government and the devolved Administrations have agreed that it is essential to maintain common approaches in a number of areas after we leave. We are therefore working together to develop a new UK framework made up of legislative and non-legislative elements. Clearly, the Fisheries Bill—which sets out shared objectives as a key legislative element—includes a requirement to publish a joint fisheries statement, which will be drafted jointly by the four Administrations and will contain policies that address these shared objectives. The policies in the joint fisheries statement will be binding. Non-legislative elements include a memorandum of understanding, which would build on the existing fisheries concordat and UK-wide quota management rules. We know that Parliament will be dissolved, so it is absurd for me to try to say when the Fisheries Bill will come back. This is another piece of primary legislation that, whatever the outcome of the general election, will no doubt have to be addressed.

My noble friend the Duke of Montrose and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, raised the issue of amalgamation consolidation. We all understand that EU law comprises a large number of regulations dealing with different areas. The purpose of the withdrawal Act SIs is to ensure continuity by making retained EU law operate correctly on exit. That is why—I choose these words carefully—no consolidation of the SIs themselves is planned. However, importantly, the National Archives has launched two new services. The first is a new EU exit website archive; the second is the addition of EU legislation to the Government’s legislation website, LEGISLATION.GOV.UK. This brings together the text of EU legislation and details of the UK corrections, as well as some additional features, including a timeline of the changes so far. We believe that these two services will help to aid legal certainty and support research in preparation for leaving. After we leave, the National Archives will maintain the EU legislation on LEGISLATION. GOV.UK, incorporating amendments made by the UK into the texts.

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

Can I clarify something? When we had the briefing earlier, we talked about there being almost a master version that people could access, even if it was not widely published. The Minister implied that this is not what the National Archives is doing. Can he clarify that there will be a master document that brings all this together and which is easily accessible for all stakeholders and businesses who want to access it?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

Yes, I can. My purpose in reading out, “This brings together the texts of EU legislation and details of the UK corrections”, is precisely this: I think that we discussed it at earlier meetings and it makes common sense. The only way that I can understand any of this—my goodness me, we have done more than 180 of these—is to read the Explanatory Memorandum rather than the SI. Unless one has that amalgamation or consolidation, the SIs alone are very difficult to decipher. That is precisely why I read out what I did about the work that is going on: so that there will be clarity and understanding.

My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe asked about the all-important issue of enforcement. In England, our enforcement system is delivered by a number of agencies working in partnership—in particular, the Marine Management Organisation, or MMO, the Inshore Fisheries and Conservation Authority and the Royal Navy. Patrols are undertaken by the Royal Navy’s offshore patrols vessels, and physical checks and surveillance by the MMO, using a combination of monitoring systems including vessel monitoring, electronic reporting and data systems and remote electronic monitoring. Although the noble Lord, Lord West of Spithead, is not in his place, he and I went up to the MMO at Newcastle and had an interesting look at this. The noble Lord was particularly pleased because many of the officials were originally from the Royal Navy. There is a recognition that there will be an increase in control and enforcement capability, including increased personnel to train as warranted marine enforcement officers and act in support roles at the MMO, and greater levels of aerial and surface surveillance.

I should probably say that control and enforcement is a devolved matter. Nevertheless, Defra, the Scottish Government, the Welsh Government and the Northern Ireland Executive are working closely together to share information and ensure a robust approach to monitoring, compliance and enforcement across UK waters.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

I am not sure that I am allowed to comment, but I was rather reassured by the list that that my noble friend read out and the fact that the Navy will now be more involved—as indeed it used to be historically, before Defra experienced cuts. It feels as though fisheries, if we get Brexit, will become a more important national asset, which will therefore justify the expenditure. I hope that that will be respected by Ministers when they come to look at these budgets.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

The interventions by the noble Lord and my noble friend have inspired me to say a little more. Currently, we have two Royal Navy Batch One offshore patrol vessels assigned to fisheries protection duty. Over time these will be replaced by five, more capable, Batch Two OPVs. In addition, the MMO has appointed three commercial operators to be on standby to provide extra boats for enforcement duties, should additional support be required. The point which the noble Lord made is of course a challenge to whoever has those responsibilities, but my noble friend is absolutely right. On sustainable fisheries and ensuring that those principles are adhered to, my guess is that there will be a strong public feeling—a strong desire—given the responsibility in UK waters for that. A Government would be brave to start trimming that when there could be that potential pressure.

[Baroness Neville-Rolfe]

My noble friend can rely on us to make it clear if we feel that not enough is being done in this important area of sustainability and its enforcement.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I have no doubt that that will be the case with all your Lordships—noble friends and noble Lords—and rightly so. Clearly, if we do not have sustainable fisheries in the end, we will have no fish, and that cannot be good for the ecosystem or for food production.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, again asked for reassurances on dates. If the EU introduces new fisheries measures between now and whenever, obviously we will want to make them operable so that everyone concerned in this world would have an up-to-date statute book.

My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, mentioned errors. I am conscious of that and I take responsibility—and of course, it drives me mad. There is a normal checking process, which includes second and third-eyes checks by Defra and other government lawyers. They are also checked by policy officials and lawyers in the devolved Administrations, as well as being scrutinised by the JCSI. All government departments have rigorous checking procedures for EU exit SIs, and indeed any SI. All I can say is—I do not mean this glibly—is that I very much regret even a single one, let alone the number that I have had to explain to your Lordships. We are distinguished to have the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s chairman, my noble friend Lord Hodgson, observing our deliberations. I know that the department replied to all the points made by the committee.

On the question of governance, the oversight function that the Commission currently holds over member states could, for example in England, definitely be taken on by the OEP, as detailed in the Environment Bill. Yes, we have had a Second Reading, but we know that this will have to come back. The OEP will be capable of holding the Government to account on their compliance with environmental laws. It will be able to take enforcement action and be required to monitor our progress on improving the natural environment. It will produce its own annual reports on its activities.

My noble friend Lord Hodgson and the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, referred to oversights. The issue of the power in Article 15 also requires the Secretary of State to obtain scientific evidence to support any measures contained in regulations made under that power, as well as to consult,

“such bodies or persons as appear to the fisheries administration to be representative of the interests likely to be substantially affected by the regulations”.

In addition, I should say to my noble friend Lord Hodgson that we are working with industry and NGOs to establish a replacement fisheries advisory infrastructure for the United Kingdom that can be put in place after we leave. We have a number of established models for consultation with stakeholders, work closely with fisheries science partnerships around the country and have a multi-stakeholder expert advisory group to consider EU exit issues.

I will go through some other points. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, that it is not ideal to have a fisheries SI in which there is a section on animals, but I will seek to explain why things have happened in this way. These amendments are included in the instrument because they required an affirmative SI—since the amendments deal with transfers of powers—as well as being in an instrument that we wanted to be in force for exit day. I do not want to go into the history of this but all the work was done on the basis of a certain exit date and we, as a responsible Government, felt that we had to cover all eventualities. We have all worked together, extremely collaboratively, to ensure that no one can say we have not done our work in getting the statute book where we might have needed it to be. As I say, the instrument is to ensure the law is absolutely clear from exit day. There have been other SIs related to animal health but those had already been laid in Parliament, meaning that, at the time, this SI was the best available vehicle for these changes. I agree that us securing an SI containing this subject would have been preferable but, on this occasion, given that the amendments simply remove inadvertent duplications, I plead with your Lordships to understand that we thought that this was the most appropriate instrument available.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, mentioned the discard ban, which the Government obviously need to address. We recognise the importance of the effective monitoring, control and enforcement of the landing obligation. For this reason, work has been undertaken this year to enhance our control and enforcement approach. For example, to complement measures to ensure that fishers have the right resources and information to be able to comply with the landing obligation, the MMO has focused its efforts on identifying non-compliance and improving the accuracy of catch recording, particularly in high-risk fisheries. Between 2018 and 2019, the MMO more than doubled the number of inspections of landings, and also nearly doubled the number of inspections at sea. The noble Lord also asked about the regional fisheries management organisations. We have applied to join the North East Atlantic Fisheries Commission but, as I think he will know better than me, we cannot join until we have ceased to be a member state.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, asked about fisheries administration and the MMO, and how all that comes about. The powers of the MMO are set out in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. It has a number of its own fisheries management functions, such as the licensing of fishing vessels. The MMO is also responsible for fisheries enforcement and has functions relating to protecting the marine environment. The MMO is included in the definition of “fisheries administration” in the statutory instruments made under the EU withdrawal Act 2018 because it carries out these key fisheries functions. She also asked about the definition of “other sensitive areas”. Article 12 is intended to protect sensitive habitats, which are defined in Regulation (EU) 2019/1241 as,

“a habitat whose conservation status, including its extent and the condition (structure and function) of its biotic and abiotic components, is adversely affected by pressures arising from human activities, including fishing activities”.

I think that answers that point.

The intriguing term “innovative fishing gear” is used in the EU measure being amended. It is generally understood as fishing gear that: improves fishing selectivity for an intended target species, or reduces or eliminates by-catch or incidental catches of sensitive species, for example marine mammals, seabirds, and marine reptiles; and reduces the impact of fishing activity on the habitat, protecting vulnerable marine ecosystems and generally reducing the impact of bottom fishing methods on the seabed. The arrangements for introducing innovative gear require scientific assessment to ensure that the standards achieved are at least equivalent to existing methods, and certainly do not have a negative impact on sensitive habitats or non-target species.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, asked about regional co-operation. We fully intend, of course, to continue to work with other countries that share our waters. Indeed, under the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea—UNCLOS—the UK is obliged to co-operate on the management of shared stocks through appropriate regional and sub-regional organisations, such as the regional fisheries management organisations. This obligation will continue to apply to the UK when we leave. Formal co-operation will also continue through the Ospar Convention, where contracting parties agree policies and strategies on environmental management across the north-east Atlantic. She also raised the process of agreeing our participation in the multiannual plans. The EU regulations already apply to our fishers, as they do to other member states. We are simply making the minimum necessary changes to the wording to ensure that the plans operate correctly as part of the UK’s statute book when we are an independent coastal state. The terms and requirements of the plans, within our waters, have not changed.

The noble Baroness also asked about our devolution arrangements, which I have already mentioned. The Northern Ireland protocol in the withdrawal agreement applies EU customs legislation in Northern Ireland but excludes territorial waters extending between zero and 12 nautical miles. The protocol sets out that the Joint Committee will consider means to ensure that tariffs are not applied to direct landings of fish and aquaculture products by Northern Ireland-registered fishing vessels. This will bring these products in line with others that are of Northern Irish origin.

There was also a query about Northern Ireland fisheries fishing in UK waters rather than in Northern Ireland waters. The designation of their catches will depend on where they are landed. The implications from the tariff perspective will be determined by the destination of those landings and exports. These important matters of detail will be considered by the Joint Committee, which is chaired by both the UK and the EU.

I will look at Hansard, because I think there may have been some other technical points, but I hope that I have covered most of them. On that basis, I recommend these regulations to your Lordships.

Motion agreed.

Plant Health (Amendment etc.) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 22 July be approved.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, the regulations amend earlier EU exit regulations relating to plant health, to update the Plant Health (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 and ensure that recent EU-derived protective measures against the introduction and spread of harmful plant pests continue to remain effective and operable on leaving the EU. The Plant Health (EU Exit) Regulations 2019, which were debated in this House on 25 March, are an important element of the EU exit legislation that we have put in place for maintaining plant biosecurity. They set out the list of harmful pests and plant material that will continue to be regulated.

It is our responsibility—particularly mine, in my role as Minister for Biosecurity—to protect biosecurity across plant and animal health and the wider ecosystem. It is also important that we have a robust process of ongoing review to strengthen biosecurity protections, where this is possible and necessary after we leave. The regulations are specifically about protecting plant biosecurity. The amendments address technical deficiencies and inoperability issues relating to retained EU law on plant health that could arise when we leave.

I should make it clear that all the amendments introduced by the instrument are simply technical operability amendments and do not introduce any policy changes. They ensure that existing measures set out in EU legislation and national measures introduced under the EU’s plant health directive will continue to apply to the UK after we leave. The majority of the changes update the list of regulated plant pests and plant material and associated import and movement requirements relating to host material in the Plant Health (EU Exit) Regulations. They reflect recent amendments to the plant health directive made by Commission implementing directive 2019/523, as a result of technical changes in the assessment of risks presented by particular pests and diseases.

I would like to explain what all that means by way of a number of examples. The lemon tree borer is native to New Zealand. Despite its name, the larvae are generalist feeders, boring into the wood of a wide variety of trees. When Captain Cook first arrived in New Zealand, his naturalists collected a lemon tree borer in their first collection made between 1769 and 1771. This oldest collected specimen can be found in the British Museum and our aim is to ensure that it remains the only specimen in the United Kingdom. Adding the lemon tree borer to the list of regulated pests will mean that countries where it is present must ensure that consignments of plants for export are free of it and officially certify that that is the case. The UK pressed for this change to be made to EU legislation following occasional interceptions of the pest on imported plants, and this instrument will ensure that the new requirements will remain operable after exit.

The tobacco whitefly is one of the most economically important agricultural and horticultural pests in the world, due in part to its adaptability, wide host plant range and capacity to vector more than 110 plant pathogenic viruses. Despite its establishment in the EU, the UK remains free of the pest and has protected zone status. The changes included will further strengthen our protections against this damaging pest. In particular, they broaden the list of plant species that are subject to official control as well as the scope of those controls, requiring greater official oversight and pre-export inspections of those pathways which have most frequently been the cause of interceptions in the UK. I should add that this is a glasshouse pest and not a threat to the UK’s wider environment. As such, interceptions can be dealt with effectively, without the likelihood of longer term establishment of the pest. Nevertheless, we will continue to ensure that our import requirements are as robust as needed to mitigate the threat of infested plants being imported, which is why we will continue to review the effectiveness of these strengthened measures to check that they are achieving the desired outcome. If not, we will not hesitate to take further action.

The pine processionary moth is another pest for which the UK currently has protected zone status due to its establishment elsewhere in the EU. Its caterpillars are a threat to the health of pine and some other conifer tree species as well as a hazard to human and animal health. The caterpillars feed on the needles of pine trees and some other conifer tree species, and in large numbers they can severely defoliate trees. Like the oak processionary moth, pine processionary caterpillars have thousands of tiny hairs containing an irritating protein, which, if they come into contact with people and animals, can cause painful skin, eye and throat irritations and rashes and, in rare cases, allergic reactions. That is why it is so important that we continue to exclude this pest and keep our protections up to date. There is new information to confirm that cedar is a host of the pine processionary moth, so we have taken early action to ensure that this host is added to the scope of EU legislation on this pest, maintaining the robustness of our import protections. There have been no findings of pine processionary moth since the UK was designated a protected zone and we aim to keep it that way. These are some examples from directive 2019/523 which we intend to and must keep operable after exit.

The instrument also covers other recent EU decisions, most importantly from the UK perspective, to better protect against the emerald ash borer. Decision 2018/1959 suspends an option for the import of ash wood originating in Canada and the United States, which has been assessed as not being complied with reliably. In addition to these changes in EU legislation, the list is being updated to incorporate specific national measures that have been introduced under EU provisions to protect against the rose rosette virus and the oak processionary moth. These national measures reflect our proactive approach to plant health. We are taking timely, robust and technically proportionate actions in response to new risks.

Rose rosette virus is an extremely damaging disease of roses, widespread in the United States and part of Canada—where it has caused devastating impacts—and was found for the first time in India in 2017. The virus affects all roses, and it and its mite vector may be present in both plants and plant parts. Current EU regulations restrict the import of plants for planting from non-European countries to plants that are dormant and free from leaves, flowers and fruit, but this is not sufficient to prevent the entry of this virus.

--- Later in debate ---

I thank the noble Lord for taking us through so many of the examples in the regulations today and, with appropriate assurances and explanations, I am happy to approve them.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, it may answer some of the general points that the noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, raised if I start by saying that protecting biosecurity is of supreme importance, not only to the Government but to the arrangements in this country. We are still free of very damaging pests, and we wish to remain so. We are undertaking research, which is the perhaps for another time, but some of the research on tree health and so forth will be tremendously important to us.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, spoke about trade. Clearly it is important to facilitate the importation and movement of plant material, but it must be done in a biosecure way. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, referred to material that is homegrown, and to seasonality. These are areas which we should think of more as consumers. I think that growing trees, shrubs, plants or flowers in Britain for environmental reasons, and for seasonality in the case of cut flowers, is the best and I actively encourage it.

My noble friend the Duke of Montrose referred to UK measures and the protections we have. We have had very good relationships with our European friends and partners. The Chief Plant Health Officer often gives a lead on these matters. On the real worry of Xylella fastidiosa, which has decimated the olive groves in southern Italy and is in other places, this country has been instrumental in driving stronger legislation which now applies across the EU for certain high-risk hosts. We are working very closely with the Horticultural Trades Association and the National Farmers’ Union to ensure there is guidance on Xylella to encourage good practice when sourcing plants. Work is going on in the Horticultural Trades Association on assurance schemes and on ensuring that when people buy British plants and trees they come with a high provenance. These are areas which we should work on.

Like the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, I read the SI and came across squarings and roundings. Many of the pests that we have reflected on in this debate, and others, are in the bark. That is why we need to have wood square for inspection so that there is no bark, which is one of the major sources and pathways for disease. Like her, I sometimes find statutory instruments impenetrable, so I always go to the Explanatory Memorandum first. I assure her that the regulations may be convoluted to us but they are very well understood by those who need to ensure that they are compliant.

The noble Baroness also mentioned oak. We have set up Action Oak and are doing research work with great institutions and universities to see what we can do to counter the travails of our wonderful, iconic national tree. If we are to import, we clearly must ensure that imports are pest-free.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, referred to cut flowers. I spent a day working with the inspectors at Heathrow, because a lot of our cut flowers come through it. If I have any further detail about other sources—I am mindful of her reference to Bristol—I will let her know. There is strong inspection of flowers coming in from non-EU sources, and there is the facility at Heathrow which I visited. However, she is right about cut flowers. We are taking these measures because of the rose rosette virus, of which we need to be very mindful. We have a specific risk and horizon-scanning team in Defra that monitors evidence and information, which, along with intelligence from the APHA inspectors on the ground, is fed through monthly in an attempt to identify and respond to new threats. She is also right about vertical salad food production and that whole area of innovation. Clearly, we need to be extremely vigorous in stopping the arrival of the tobacco whitefly.

On the regulation of pests and diseases and their impact on food production, we already have measures in place to protect important food crops such as potatoes and cereals. This instrument includes provisions that strengthen protection against certain pests that affect important food crops. As we have mentioned, the tobacco whitefly can spread viruses to salad crops, and the potato psyllid can spread a bacterium that causes zebra chip disease in potatoes. That, again, is an area where we have been instrumental in pressing for strengthened measures to protect our food crops.

The noble Baroness is absolutely right about peak dates such as Christmas, Valentine’s Day, Easter and Mother’s Day. The Netherlands is a prime source of flowers from the EU. East Africa is another source, and that is where most of the non-EU flowers and plants that are inspected as they are flown in come from. I have seen the inspections and can report that they are very effective. Timber inspection is carried out at many arrival points, and Heathrow, London Gateway, Felixstowe, Dover, Southampton, Liverpool, Humber and Teesport are all areas where we receive goods of which we need to be watchful.

The protected zone is an EU concept, and the UK is the most prolific user of the protected zone scheme. When we leave, these designations will no longer apply but we will maintain the same protections through our list of regulated pests and import and movement requirements. We will redesignate protected zones that apply only to certain parts of the UK as pest-free areas, in line with international standards. This applies mainly to protected zones currently in force in Northern Ireland. We will of course keep under review the need to introduce new pest-free areas in the future. I have a list of them and it might facilitate better understanding if I circulate a map and a list—that might help to bring the picture alive.

We obviously hope that we will be able to negotiate successfully with the EU on third-country access to the EU notification system, not only because that would be in our interests but because, candidly, as I hope I have outlined, this is an area where the UK has made a major contribution in seeking to enhance biosecurity both here and within the EU. I very much hope that this will be an area where mutual working can continue, as pests and diseases do not respect borders or even the 22 miles of the channel. All EU systems have publicly available elements that we will be able to access, although we have of course developed fallback positions should we lose access. As I said, this is an area where it is common sense for us to collaborate.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, referred to the importance of recruiting inspectors. At the end of October, APHA will have recruited a further 107 full-time equivalents as PHSI inspectors and administrative staff. APHA is reviewing operational procedures to mitigate any resourcing and ensure that all services are delivered as and when required, as I said.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked about our overall protection from plant pest threats. One of the great things that I have discovered as Biosecurity Minister is that we have a monthly biosecurity meeting with all the top officials, experts and scientists. One of the key features of that is horizon scanning all around the world. I have a list of every conceivable animal and plant disease along with their profiles and information on whether they are increasing, holding their own or reducing. This is an important element of our ensuring that the threats are kept at bay.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, referred, for example, to woodchip particles. The regulations apply whether the material is intended for manufacturing, amenity use or industrial power. That is why it is important to regulate all possible pathways by which a pest can be introduced, whether via plants, timber, woodchips or bark.

Another issue mentioned by the noble Lord brings me to my final point. I have outlined, adequately I hope, that the Government are absolutely staunch on the issues of plant and tree health, investment and research, at both commercial and public level. Our policies on plant health EU exit instruments are risk-based and proportionate; that is clearly how we want to do things from day one but we will be considering anything that comes forward from the EU. It is important, since we have often been a leader, that we continue this collaboration. If, indeed, there were any new decisions from the EU on things that we had not already done and need to do—although I hope that we would already have done them—I can assure your Lordships that this is an area where, through Defra, the Food Standards Agency, APHA, and all the agencies, we have a prime responsibility to keep our country safe.

I will look at Hansard because there may be other distinctions, but I hope that I have explained why this instrument is important for us as part of our biosecurity regime.

Motion agreed.

Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products and Common Agricultural Policy (Miscellaneous Amendments etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 23, 24 and 25 July be approved. Considered in Grand Committee on 16 October.

Motions agreed.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure and privilege to conclude today’s debate on Her Majesty’s gracious Speech. First, I declare my farming interests, as set out in the register. I am most grateful to my noble friend Lady Vere for opening the debate so comprehensively and with panache. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this diverse debate on critical issues. I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara, that we have discussed some of the most critical issues, not only for this country but across the world. So many important points have been raised today. The generous noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, has already raised this. I fear I will not be in a position to respond to every question put by every noble Lord. I do promise that there will be a substantial letter with a detailed response. Your Lordships should be prepared for many pages. I want to ensure that points are covered fully either with my reply or with the letter.

From the outset I acknowledge and congratulate the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Bristol and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, on their maiden speeches. They raised issues of profound importance and I look forward to their future contributions. I think it is fair to say that discussions on all the matters the noble Baronesses raise will be lively.

On economic affairs, I was interested in what my noble friend Lord Leigh of Hurley said in comparison with what the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, opened with. Our view is that the fundamentals of the UK economy are strong. The measures in the Queen’s Speech are built on economic progress over the last decade, a period during which our economy has grown by almost one-fifth and 3.6 million more people are in work. I am very glad that my noble friend Lady Redfern referred to the rural economy, where so many small and medium enterprises are established.

Wage growth has outstripped inflation for over a year and unemployment is down by 1.2 million since 2010. Youth unemployment has fallen by 47% and borrowing has been cut by over four-fifths as a share of GDP since 2010. I acknowledge, and in acknowledging I look at noble Lords on the Liberal Democrat Benches, that success would not have been possible if we had not taken difficult decisions from 2010. I believe it was in the national interest and responsibility that the public finances were restored. The noble Lord, Lord Macpherson of Earl’s Court, was probably very much in the front line of some of those thoughts.

I picked up the words on austerity from a number of noble Lords. I think of the noble Lord, Lord Darling, then Chancellor, recognising that there had to be a retrenchment. When we cut through all this, the piece of legislation the Labour Government passed in 2010 was a recognition that matters had to be taken in hand. I am particularly mindful of what the noble Lord, Lord Livermore, said about fiscal caution.

I also think we are right to begin a new decade of investment and renewal. My noble friend Lady Neville-Rolfe set that out strongly. When I look at noble Lords on the Labour Benches, I do not dream for one minute that this is associated with them, but I and the Government would say that the current views of the present Labour leadership do not seem to chime with enterprise, private ownership or, indeed, success. I am mindful of what the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, said on these matters. It is, after all, that economic engine that will always do all the things that noble Lords across the House have sought today.

I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, for raising the tips Bill. I am afraid I do not have the answer on Northern Ireland yet, but that will be part of my letter.

On the issue that the noble Lord, Lord Fox, raised about fiscal rules, the 2019 spending round continues to meet existing fiscal targets. The Government will review the rules alongside updated forecasts at the Budget.

On the question about regulation from the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, financial services will not see diluted regulation. We remain committed to world-leading regulation standards. Furthermore, the UK remains committed to equivalence with the EU in any scenario. But as my noble friend Lord Leigh said, it is essential that our regulation is reformed and responds to changes in the market to make sure that there is an appropriate balance—I emphasise “appropriate”—between investor freedoms and protections. Indeed, I understand that my noble friend is due to meet the Economic Secretary to the Treasury shortly, and I am sure some of those points will be outlined.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, mentioned that there was nothing in the financial services Bill on fintech. The Government already launched the fintech sector strategy in March 2018 to show how the UK could remain the best place in the world for fintech. All announcements in that strategy have already been delivered. The UK has been independently ranked as the best place in the world to start a fintech business.

I am not sure the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, was in his place at the time, but he and the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, take contrary views on corporation tax cuts. The rate of corporation tax has been cut from 28% in 2010 to 19% now—the lowest in the G20—benefiting businesses large and small, we believe. I am afraid these are the words I must say: as normal, the Chancellor will set out the rates for all major taxes at the Budget, now due in November.

A number of your Lordships—particularly the noble Baronesses, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, Lady Parminter and Lady Mallalieu, and my noble friend Lady Browning —asked about standards and future trade agreements. Any future trade agreements must work for consumers, farmers, businesses and the UK. We will not water down our standards on food safety, animal welfare or environmental protection as part of any future deals. Yes, we want to negotiate an ambitious and comprehensive free trade deal with the United States, but any new products wishing to enter the UK market must comply with our high standards on animal welfare and food safety, for instance. We will not—I underline not—compromise on these standards. Indeed, WTO rules allow WTO members to adopt and maintain trade-restrictive measures on specified public policy grounds.

The noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Stevenson, asked about the trade Bill. Again, final decisions are still to be taken, but I have these words: we welcome your Lordships’ work and it will certainly be taken into account. Legislation will ensure that we deliver certainty to business, seek continuity of existing EU trade agreements and establish an independent trade remedies authority.

The noble Lord, Lord Haskel, mentioned productivity. Funding of the national productivity investment fund has increased from £23 billion to £37 billion. We are determined to tackle the, I think, serious issue that this great country does not have the strongest productivity figures, and I believe it should. We need to work on that.

I turn to business and energy. Climate change is one of the most urgent and pressing challenges we face, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch. I say to your Lordships’ walking legend, my noble friend Lord Bates, that he is right—as we sometimes should be prepared to say—in speaking of our country’s strong record on these matters, even when we need to do much more. It is fair and right that this Government wish to deliver their ambition to be the greenest Government ever. We also need to ensure that economic and environmental success go hand in hand. That is surely the major challenge.

[Lord Bilimoria]

My Lords—

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I have very little time; if I take this intervention, I cannot answer any questions.

[Lord Bilimoria]

I am sorry. I apologise. I need to make a correction to the House. In my speech, I said that energy from renewable sources over the last three months was more than from conventional, but that was only for electricity. Electricity makes up only 18% of our energy, so we still have a lot to do. This was pointed out by a professor at Cambridge University.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I will cover the Environment Bill in more detail, but it is important, in signifying the bona fides of the Government, that today the Prime Minister announced that he will chair a new Cabinet committee on climate change. This will drive further action across government to protect our environment, reduce emissions and improve air quality, and it shows the importance of climate change to this Government. We clearly need to do a great deal on this, although I am going to cut in here to applaud the tree speech of the noble Lord, Lord Stone. We need more detail on this area. The noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, raised National Tree Week—23 November to 1 December. I am going to plant some trees, and I am sure every noble Lord here will too.

I move on quickly to broadband. My noble friends Lady Byford and Lady Redfern, and the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, raised this and the importance of digital connectivity everywhere. As the Rural Affairs Minister, I stress its importance in the countryside. The Chancellor has already announced that £5 billion will be spent on gigabit connectivity to underpin the outside-in approach. I am also pleased with our ambition on mobile for the majority of the population to have access to a 5G signal by 2027, with much more coming in to improve the situation in rural areas. I will write more fully on that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, and the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, mentioned our carbon budgets. We outperformed our first and second carbon budgets. We are on track to exceed the third. The latest projections suggest that we are on track to deliver over 90% of our required performance for the fourth and fifth carbon budgets, but that is before taking into account many of the measures and proposals of our green growth strategy.

The noble Lord, Lord Fox, raised a point about the industrial strategy. The industrial strategy is a cross-government programme focusing on strengthening the foundations of productivity, encouraging innovation, supporting UK businesses and fostering growth in all parts of the United Kingdom. I am again speaking as the Rural Affairs Minister; the shared rural prosperity fund means across the nation. I agree with the noble Lords, Lord Fox and Lord Bilimoria, that we need to invest more in science and research. The UK has an ambition to spend 2.4% of GDP on R&D by 2027 and 3% in the longer term. This autumn, the Government will set out plans to boost significantly public R&D funding, providing greater certainty for our great scientific community.

Nuclear was raised by the noble Viscount, Lord Hanworth, and the noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Broers. We are working to deliver an ambitious energy White Paper that addresses the transformation of the energy system, consistent with delivering net zero emissions. The Government continue to believe that nuclear has an important role. Our commitment to it has been clearly demonstrated by giving the go-ahead for the first new nuclear power station in a generation at Hinkley Point. We have the largest installed offshore wind capacity in the world, and annual support for renewables will be over £10 billion by 2021. The noble Duke, the Duke of Somerset, referred to hydrogen. We are investing up to £108 million in hydrogen innovation.

My noble friend Lord Arran spoke of the Appledore shipyard and UK shipbuilding. He made a very powerful speech and I appreciate all that he said about the closure. I hope that there is a positive story on this matter. As has been said, the Prime Minister has appointed the Defence Secretary as the new shipbuilding tsar. He will be tasked with looking at how a longer-term skill base can be achieved, and this will ensure that British shipyards can compete fairly across all UK contracts. I am most grateful to my noble friend for raising that.

Transport is clearly the lifeblood of our economy. We wish to invest record sums in our railways and start the vital process of modernising our airspace. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, the Oakervee review on HS2 is under way.

I would like to say very much more on ultra-low emission vehicles. The Road to Zero strategy sets out a clear pathway to zero emissions. We are working extremely hard and are investing £3.5 billion to reduce transport emissions, improve air quality and protect wildlife and habitats.

Having spoken to my noble friend Lady Vere, I know that she will be delighted to facilitate a meeting for my noble friend Lord Bates with Chris Heaton-Harris at the Department for Transport to discuss the issues raised. The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, spoke about cycling and walking. Almost £2 billion is being invested through the cycling and walking investment strategy. My noble friend Lord Bates does not appear to need any of that sum.

The noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, spoke about buses and I want to talk in particular about electric buses. The Government recognise that electric buses play a hugely important part in decarbonisation and in bringing about improvements in air quality. Since 2015, the Government have provided £90 million of funding for electric buses, and on 30 September this year we announced £220 million for a bus package.

I do not want to be remiss on agriculture and the environment. A great deal is promised in the legislation, with a commitment to tackle climate change, biodiversity loss and environmental risks to public health. All our efforts are guided by our pledge to bequeath a better natural inheritance than was left to us, bound by our commitment to reach net zero emissions by 2050. The noble Lord, Lord St John of Bletso, is absolutely right: we aspire to be a global leader, and indeed, when I go around many countries, it is clear to me that on climate change we are deemed to be such.

There were many questions on the Environment Bill. The first was from my noble friend Lady Byford and the noble Baronesses, Lady Parminter and Lady Young of Old Scone. The OEP will be operationally independent from government. It will be governed by non-executive members appointed through a regulated public appointments process. Ministers will not be able to set its programme of activity or improperly influence its decisions. The office will come into effect from January 2021, subject to the passage of the Environment Bill. The new independent office will ensure that when we leave the EU, its environmental standards will be upheld and improved. On resources and funding, the Secretary of State is required under the Bill to provide sufficient funding to enable the office to perform its function. On the non-regressive clause to which the noble Baroness, Lady Young of Old Scone, referred, we have no intention of weakening our current environmental protections.

I am not going to forget the importance of my noble friends Lord Shrewsbury and Lord Caithness, their visit to Allerton and the important research and practical work that we need to do in working with land managers. My noble friend Lord Inglewood asked what we thought the countryside was for. It is for the production of clean air; clean and plentiful water; thriving plants and wildlife; protection from and mitigation of environmental hazards; beauty, heritage and engagement; mitigation of and adaptation to climate change and—as the noble Baroness, Lady Mallalieu, would want me to say—very good food.

I also want to outline the importance of planting trees. Yes, I will, of course, arrange a meeting with the Minister and the tree champion for the noble Lord, Lord Stone. The tree strategy, which is so important, is coming forward. We need to work on tree pests; we have invested £37 million on tree health.

My noble friend Lord Caithness spoke about health issues. The chief executive of Public Health England has written to the House of Commons Science and Technology Select Committee on this issue. Overall exposure is expected to remain low and, as such, there should be no consequences for public health. My noble friend Lord Caithness is absolutely right about rural crime, and my visits to farms just last week show not only the seriousness but the fearfulness of it.

On agriculture and fisheries, we need to work extremely effectively. On the agriculture Bill, a number of points have been raised. We plan to make a number of improvements to the Bill, including making clear the importance of food production. That reflects carefully on the scrutiny in the other place and, I am sure, the scrutiny there would have been in your Lordships’ House as well.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Morris of Aberavon, is not in his place, so I think I will write to him fully on what we are doing in Wales, but we are working very effectively with the devolved Administrations on that.

So far as support for farmers is concerned—and I declare my own interest—it is very clear that we need to work particularly hard and effectively with farmers to ensure stability and certainty. That is why any projects we are funding that we have agreed before the end of 2020 will be funded for their full lifetime. Of course, as we said, we will retain the cash funds for the lifetime of this Parliament. I will write to my noble friends on labelling.

My noble friends Lady Byford, Lady Browning and Lord Caithness raised the food strategy. Henry Dimbleby is leading an independent review on this; a final report will be published in the summer of 2020 and a government White Paper will follow six months later. It is very important work. On food safety—again raised by my noble friend Lady Browning—I must be allowed, if the Chief Whip will ever speak to me again, to say again that this is really important. All food safety and public health import requirements will be maintained after exit. This is absolutely essential. The noble Lord, Lord Browne of Ladyton, spoke about plant security and biosecurity. Again, it is important that we have allocated resources to recruit additional inspectors. There are already more than 107 extra APHA inspectors, for instance. Invasive species are also my responsibility. The new Invasive and Alien Species (Enforcement and Permitting) Order 2019 is going to be a very important tool for us. On trophy hunting, I am also pleased to say that we will be consulting to restrict further the import and export of hunting trophies. The noble Baroness, Lady O’Neill, spoke about electoral campaigning. I must write to her on that.

At this point, I would have liked to have said many kind things to many noble Lords. I will ensure that the points raised by my noble friend Lord Shinkwin are answered. There is much more that I can write about and that is exactly what I will do. I apologise to the Chief Whip that I spoke for so long, but surely your Lordships’ contributions deserve that.

Debate adjourned until Monday 21 October.

Agriculture (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Agriculture (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Gardiner of Kimble) (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my farming interests as set out in the register. I hope it will be helpful to your Lordships if I speak to the instruments together, given the close connection between them.

These statutory instruments primarily amend retained EU law relating to the common organisation of markets in agricultural products. They also make minor amendments to cross-cutting common agricultural policy legislation and legislation governing rural development programmes and maritime and fisheries funds. The CMO sits in Pillar 1 of the common agricultural policy and was set up as a means to meet the objectives of the CAP. Over time, it has broadened to provide a mechanism that enables the EU to incentivise collaboration between, and improve the competitiveness of, agricultural producers and to facilitate trade.

The framework legislation of the CMO, which contains the basic rules for the schemes therein, was debated in this House earlier this year. The legislation considered today is technical in nature and limited in scope, as it primarily amends legislation setting up the finer details of the CMO to ensure that its provisions can continue to work after we leave.

Bearing in mind previous discussion, I assure your Lordships that we are adamant in upholding standards and maintaining process and are keeping as close to the current system as possible. The legislation makes appropriate corrections to ensure that the current system and its processes are operable after exit.

The Agriculture (Miscellaneous Amendments) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 primarily make operable functions contained in EU legislation relating to the CAP and the CMO currently carried out by the European Commission or member states in the reserved areas of import and export controls, international trade and regulation of anti-competitive practices and agreements. Under the amendments, those reserved functions will instead be carried out by the Secretary of State or, in one instance, in relation to contractual negotiations in the dairy sector, by the Competition and Markets Authority. Some of these functions are administrative; for instance, to recognise hop producer groups. Others are powers to make regulations to amend rules relating to particular schemes; for example, conditions for recognition. The powers conferred are limited to those of reserved competence. They include powers such as setting conditions for when an export licence may or may not be required, fixing amounts payable on exports where they are subject to an international agreement, updating standard terms for sugar sector contracts and making additional requirements with respect to customs procedures where it is necessary to do so for the purposes of CAP checks. The instrument also makes operable retained EU law concerning producer organisations, import of eggs and contractual negotiations in the dairy sector.

Examples of the amendments made are: omitting obligations to report information on producer organisations to the Commission; conferring on the Secretary of State the power to recognise producer organisations, which currently lies with member states; a requirement that the Secretary of State must make a determination of equivalence in relation to the marketing standards of eggs from a third country before eggs from that country may be imported; and providing for notifications on volumes of milk covered by contractual negotiations, which are currently provided to member states, to be provided to the Secretary of State.

--- Later in debate ---

Finally, as the Minister knows, Scotland chose not to be part of the agriculture Bill, which will lay the foundations for agriculture policy outside the EU. Does that have any implications for powers that have been conferred on the Secretary of State that need to be exercised uniformly across the UK? I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I have every sympathy with the noble Lord, Lord Jones, because I always go to the Explanatory Memorandum first. I congratulate colleagues and officials who have given us a comprehensive understanding of the background of these technical changes. In seeking to address these points, it is important to understand the context, which is that we are having to fine-tune systems that we are going to have across the UK in one way or another and it is very important that there is certainty. I understand this involves noble Lords, particularly the noble Baronesses on the Front Bench and some of my noble friends, in considerable scrutiny, but we must get this right. I was struck by the words of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell: “We must get this right”. That means that when we make typographical errors or whatever, they should be attended to as soon as possible.

I shall run through the commentary. My noble friend Lady McIntosh and the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, referred to the exchange rate matter. The 2018 exchange rate was used to convert euro amounts in the retained EU regulations into sterling amounts. This is a one-off amendment. In future, we will take licensed securities in sterling. There is therefore no reason to peg these figures to the euro exchange rate. As I say, this is a one-off amendment and the figures will now be dealt with in sterling.

My noble friend Lady McIntosh asked about cost recovery. We take securities in the area of import and export licences. The only payment required to obtain an import or export licence is a security which is taken and held by the RPA. The RPA releases the security when it receives proof that the obligations specified on the licence have been fulfilled. As a result, there is no cost to an operator who uses the licence as intended. I understood that anyway. My noble friend also spoke about export refunds. In line with our WTO obligations, we have committed to the phasing out of export refunds from 2020. The EU has not used export refunds for quite a number of years.

The noble Lord, Lord Jones, made a powerful speech. He is a champion of upland farmers across the kingdom, but particularly those in Wales. Having walked parts of Powys—the beacons—and Snowdonia in my time, I recognise the beauty of that landscape. Let us not forget why it is so glorious. It is because of that particular brand of pastoral farming, the custodianship of the upland farming community and the culture that goes with it. We should treasure that. That is why the noble Lord is right to refer to tourism. They are places people want to go to because of the culture that those great families have produced over the generations. I would be failing if I did not also mention the high-quality Welsh lamb and Welsh beef they have produced, as well as Anglesey sea salt. All these are products of which we should be proud.

It is not just the uplands of Wales. There are the lowlands as well, which my noble friend Lady Byford mentioned. Farming communities across this country are essential not only because of their glorious food but because of what they do and will do as we take ourselves through the environmental enhancement. It is essential that we work collaboratively with the farming community. With over 70% of the land in the UK farmed, and the figure is probably much higher in Wales, this is the route by which environmental enhancement—habitat recovery, nature recovery and wildlife recovery—will happen.

On the question of devolution, agriculture is devolved. Yes, there are elements relating to Wales in the Agriculture Bill. I am looking forward very much to opportunities for further discussions, perhaps tomorrow but also on agriculture legislation. In championing devolution, I should say—and I am going on to talk about common frameworks, which are hugely important—that the Welsh Government launched their new consultation, Sustainable Farming and our Land, on 9 July, which will be open to responses until 30 October. In England there is the environmental land management proposal, as a way of recognising what farmers do by way of public benefits.

I turn to the issue of divergence, and I thank the noble Baronesses, Lady Bakewell and Lady Jones of Whitchurch. In respecting the areas of devolved competence, my feeling is that at both official and ministerial level there is a strong recognition of what I would call common sense prevailing. UK government officials have been working closely with officials from all devolved Administrations to design future common frameworks where they are necessary and desirable. The Scottish and Welsh Governments continue to commit not to diverge in ways that would cut across future frameworks where it is agreed that they are necessary, or indeed where discussions continue. And not forgetting Northern Ireland: the Government remain committed to restoring devolution in Northern Ireland, but also acknowledge the engagement that has continued with the Northern Ireland Civil Service on common frameworks.

I have here a note on the discussions. The Secretary of State and the Minister of State, Mr Eustice, meet Lesley Griffiths from Wales, with whom I have a good connection; they meet Fergus Ewing from Scotland, with whom I have worked on a number of issues; and of course they meet DAERA officials, who have been most helpful to all of our Lordships on the SIs relating to Northern Ireland. All the Administrations are taking the issue of divergence forward in a very sensible and professional way. We respect the devolution arrangements, but common sense clearly suggests that there are ways in which we can work forward to the common good for businesses, consumers and indeed well-being.

The noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Whitchurch, specifically mentioned Wales and the issue with certain elements of the statutory instruments. There are some circumstances where the mechanism does not apply to Wales. That is because certain provisions are specific to the Welsh devolution settlement. That said, the Welsh Government have carefully considered whether the Secretary of State should be able to act on their behalf in respect of each of the functions concerned, and the drafting reflects that. Again, certain elements of the settlement relating specifically to Wales mean that it will be bringing forward its own statutory instruments, but that is within the mechanism of co-operation and understanding. To conclude on the divergence/common framework position, we are absolutely clear—if I might say this on behalf of all the devolved Administrations—that we are working together, I think successfully, at ministerial and official level because that absolutely makes common sense and is right for the United Kingdom.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, referred to poultry stakeholders. We have engaged with poultry breeders through the UK Livestock Brexit Group, which is made up of representatives from the livestock sector including the British Poultry Council, which itself represents all parts of the poultry sector—breeding, hatching, growing and processing. On amendments made to provisions concerning poultry and poultry meat, we have engaged with the British Poultry Council directly. The noble Baroness also referred to crisis payment examples. I must say that these have never been applied in the EU since the introduction of that provision in January 2014. There are no examples of such crises in EU law. I do not know whether that requires further consideration but my understanding is that there is no reference.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Jones]

The Minister is very persuasive. He persuades me to request that he writes, when he considers the debate, with as many assurances as he dares.

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

I think I have given the Committee assurances that these statutory instruments are technical and operable. We have gone into a wider debate about the Government’s support for agriculture and agricultural communities. We want agriculture to prosper in all parts of the kingdom. We obviously look to the farmer for many things, and we will continue to do so. This is an opportunity for me, in declaring my farming interests, to say that we must work very productively with farmers across the United Kingdom, for all the reasons I have outlined. I give that assurance to the noble Lord and to the Committee.

Motion agreed.

Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products and Common Agricultural Policy (Miscellaneous Amendments etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019

Lord Gardiner of Kimble Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2019 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Common Organisation of the Markets in Agricultural Products and Common Agricultural Policy (Miscellaneous Amendments etc.) (EU Exit) (No. 2) Regulations 2019.

Motion agreed.