National Security and Investment Bill

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Committee stage
Tuesday 9th March 2021 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Bates) (Con)]

I have received one request to speak after the Minister from the noble Lord, Lord Fox.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

I am probably being extremely stupid here, so please forgive me. In the first example of a foreign business supplying a critical operation in this country, I understand that that would be a problem were it taken over by a hostile nation. Let us imagine that a Belgian company, or perhaps a Canadian one, is being taken over by a company or a regime that we consider hostile. What is the Secretary of State’s next move in stopping it happening? I do not understand what the Secretary of State’s remit is over that Belgian or Canadian company, other than to suggest to the recipient of the supplies in this country that they have to change their supplier.

Trade Bill

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Monday 4th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I listened very carefully to the final words that the noble Lord used when he talked about “equal access”, and I draw back from that a little. But on the broad principle, when we talk about the scheme of preferences and economic partnership agreements that we have with Commonwealth countries, if we have an independent trade policy, of course we will be able to take that into account. We would be free to do that. Similarly, if we are not part of free movement within the EU and have our independent immigration policy, we are in a position to set out the terms on which we want to admit people to work in this country. I hope that is helpful to the noble Lord.

[Lord Fox]

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the minimal debate that we have had around this. I will look closely at Hansard, but I did not hear the Minister refer to the £30,000 threshold issue and the false dichotomy between skilled and unskilled. Between now and Report, I would like the Minister to come back to that, and I apologise if he did indeed raise it.

[Lord Bates]

Before the noble Lord sits down—I have always wanted to say that—I did have some notes on that. Perhaps I could intrude on the noble Lord’s wind-up to say that the Government are committed to ensuring that the future immigration system works in the international interests of all the UK. The Migration Advisory Committee advised that the £30,000 salary threshold should still apply. The Home Office is undertaking an extensive programme of engagement on its White Paper proposals and will discuss with business and a variety of other sectors, including the creative industries, what a suitable threshold should be. If a skilled job is considered to be in shortage in the UK, a lower threshold is likely apply. I hope that helps the Committee and the noble Lord.

[Lord Fox]

It helps somewhat, and I urge the Government to consult extensively with the care and food service sectors. Hygiene skills, for example, benefit the food sector a lot. I am sure most employees there earn less than the scheduled threshold. There is also the issue of freelancers and self-employed people. I will not get the Minister up again but I will be looking for a response on that. I also did not hear from Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition anything other than what I would call a very weak response. It was, frankly, disappointing. With that proviso, I beg leave to withdraw.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Bates]

That is the noble Lord’s position on this: the reality is that the Prime Minister is seeking an agreement that can command a majority in the other place and that requires compromise. That is what the agreement represents. The House made its view on the withdrawal agreement clear; she is now seeing whether that can be addressed with the Commission. Personally, I wish her well and every possible success, as opposed to my own mis-speaking. Lest it be on the record, I am sure that Sigmund Freud would have observed that perhaps I had momentarily let slip an inner feeling, which, of course, has nothing to do with the position of Her Majesty’s Government, which I consistently seek to put forward from this Dispatch Box and proudly support.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about support for government amendments that preclude the facilitated customs arrangements. We would argue that there is nothing about the amendments made to the Taxation (Cross-border Trade) Act in the other place that is inconsistent with the draft political declaration that will inform the future relationship. On the point made by the noble Lords, Lord Hannay and Lord Stevenson, about insufficient focus on VAT implications, the Government have been clear that we are aware of the potential impact on businesses of any move away from the concept of acquisition VAT, but we have also set out that in any scenario we are seeking to avoid any adverse effects. Amendment 80 does not affect that in our view.

[Lord Fox]

On that last point, we keep talking about 29 March, but of course sales are already being made and shipping has already been arranged that may well arrive in this country or continental Europe after 29 March. The business decisions to invest, to make things and try to sell them have already been made, so minimising the impact is not possible. The impact has already started.

[Lord Bates]

Yes, there is a reason why we have brought back the agreement—to resolve the situation.

As for whether the amendments have been considered in the other place, the other place voted for two of the original amendments and had the opportunity to vote on another two but decided not to do so, so the other place made its view clear on that point.

Trade Bill

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Committee: 3rd sitting (Hansard - continued): House of Lords
Wednesday 30th January 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I reassure my noble friend the Chief Whip that I have no problem in keeping it going for as long as he indicates is necessary—such has been the quality of the debate.

I have had a note passed to me which might be important. On Amendment 39, on mutual recognition of professional qualifications, I may have said “Ireland” but I meant to say “Iceland”. I thank the officials for being so attentive.

[Lord Fox]

The Ireland/Iceland point is actually very important. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, made a point earlier about cross-border activity—of midwives who live in the north of Ireland and practise in the Republic, for example—which is now in jeopardy. I am less excited about Iceland, with all due respect, given that the island of Ireland’s economy is driven on the ability to have the mutual recognition of all these skills. I enjoin the Government to work quickly on that one.

[Lord Bates]

The Government are very happy to give that undertaking.

On legal services, raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady McIntosh and Lady Hooper, the outcome of the negotiations of course lies ahead of us, but I assure noble Lords that the Government will push very much for a strong relationship in this area. As EU and EFTA lawyers will be subject to domestic rules in the UK, UK lawyers in the EU and EFTA will be subject to the national rules and regulations of individual EU and EFTA member states, if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. This will vary between member states and within member states, where there will be multiple regulators.

The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked specifically about close participation in the European Medicines Agency. I think I have already dealt with that one and I do not want to tempt further interventions at this point. However, I am pleased that the Government have been clear that we want to remain part of the EMA, which will include remaining part of the falsified medicines directive.

Let me turn to horses—galloping into the final straight with Amendment 48. I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper, who spoke particularly about polo, and the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh. I also thank the noble Lord, Lord Risby, who talked about his connections with Newmarket, and the noble Lord, Lord McNicol, who asked about this as well. Amendment 48 dealt with the tripartite agreement on the movement of horses. As part of our ongoing preparations for EU exit, the Government aim to ensure that the movement of horses will continue with minimal delay and bureaucracy, while safeguarding biosecurity and animal welfare. Let me reassure noble Lords that we are already working closely with the equine industry to retain the benefits of the tripartite agreement after the UK leaves the EU. The Government actively support a long-term industry-led proposal to allow horses of high health status from third countries to travel to the EU under the TPA arrangements.

I had a note on the pet travel service. As part of the ongoing preparations for EU exit, the Government aim to ensure that the movement of pets will continue with minimal inconvenience to pet owners while safeguarding the UK’s biosecurity and the welfare of travelling animals. We are already working closely with stakeholders in the veterinary and pet travel industries to ensure that the benefits of the EU pet travel scheme are retained after the UK leaves the EU. The Government will submit their application for listed status within the EU pet travel scheme imminently. The UK is seeking technical discussions with the European Commission on its application. Should the UK become a part 1 listed country, there would be little change to current pet travel arrangements. Only minor changes to documentation would be needed.

I hope that noble Lords will feel that in the time available I have dealt with as many issues as possible, and that the noble Lord will therefore consider withdrawing his amendment at this stage.

Brexit: Economic Analysis of Various Scenarios

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

I do not have specific information on that. I know that, when we leave the European Union, the intention is to establish a fund to seek to address the points that the structural funds dealt with. On whether Wales will continue to benefit from or be eligible for the structural funds, I am very happy to write to the noble Lord on that and what is covered in the analysis.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the tabulation clearly links the importance of migration to future GDP. In fact, going from free movement to zero migration reduces GDP by a further 2%. In that case, does the Minister share my frustration that his colleague in the other place is still delaying publishing the immigration Bill? When will it be published? It is extremely important to this country’s future.

[Lord Bates]

The answer is, very soon.

Mortgages: Cerberus

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Wednesday 28th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, I will not go into the technical detail, but one of the conditions for Cerberus to operate in this country was that it operate under a regulated body, so it operates under Landmark Mortgages. It is not active in the lending market, so the people who can move to get the better deals are those who are up to date with their payments, have equity in their property and can meet the new affordability test. That is the conundrum that we are seeking to find a way through.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, my colleagues, in two different ways, have asked the same question, which is what lessons have the Government learned, and how will they avoid this happening again? Will the Minister please answer that question?

[Lord Bates]

Yes: I think that lessons have been learned. I am very happy to make available to the noble Lord the response that the Economic Secretary to the Treasury gave to the chairman of the Treasury Select Committee on 12 November this year—which sets out many of the details of what we can learn—as well as the response from the Financial Conduct Authority to the noble Lord, Lord Sharkey. I am happy to make both available.

Economy: Productivity

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Thursday 28th June 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

If that criticism were true, we would not see that the UK is regarded as the number one location for foreign direct investment and we would not see companies coming here in the numbers that they are. We have a great strength in our economy. We have an historic weakness in productivity and we need to look at all the possible contributions to that and address them; that is what this review is all about.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, I remind the noble Lord that foreign investment has halved over the course of the last year, so perhaps that is not the best statistic to choose. Meanwhile, manufacturing output has fallen for three successive months, construction output is 3% down year on year and the trade deficit is widening. We are pleased to hear that the industrial strategy does not have dust on it, but when do the Government think that some of their measures might actually take effect?

[Lord Bates]

On the point about foreign direct investment, just look over the past couple of weeks: we have seen Amazon announce 3,000 jobs in the east Midlands; a major biomass investment in Cheshire that will bring 3,000 jobs; and Vauxhall has announced the investment of 1,400 jobs in Luton. We are seeing record investment levels and a doubling of tech investment in the UK. This is all part of a strong, vibrant British economy that we are absolutely confident will continue to progress and improve beyond Brexit.

Sterling: Euro Exchange Rate

Debate between Lord Fox and Lord Bates

Monday 9th October 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Bates]

Since 2010, the economy has grown by 15.3%. That is 1.5 times the level of France. I do not necessarily want to remind the noble Lord, who was standing on this side of the Dispatch Box during 2008-09, that the economy contracted by 6.3% during that period. The fact that we have record levels of employment and are seeing sustained growth should be welcomed and built upon.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, a fall in the relative value of the pound was advanced by some of the most enthusiastic Brexiteers as the antidote to future potential export tariffs. Can the Minister tell this House whether that is also Her Majesty’s Government’s policy? If the answer is yes, what evidence has been amassed over the last 12 months of a phenomenally low pound to support that view?

[Lord Bates]

As I have said, the Government have not said exchange rates are their responsibility. Those matters are driven by the markets and sentiment. We have to make sure we have a strong, competitive economy. That is why we have lowered taxation rates, why we have high employment levels and why the Chancellor has announced a new national productivity investment fund of £23 billion. We have to do everything in our power; the markets will respond as the markets respond.