Data Strategy

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 24th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I do not think the Government would accept that we have compromised our data security standards. We keep them under review at all times and this is obviously a fast-moving area. We remain confident that we can obtain a full agreement on data adequacy by the year end and are optimistic that that will be the case.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) [V]]

My Lords, since the Government have unilaterally ended the daily media briefing, how do they now intend to publicise regularly, preferably daily, all the essential data about the pandemic?

Covid-19: Television Licences

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Tuesday 2nd June 2020 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the restrictions in place to address the COVID-19 pandemic, what plans they have to reconsider the decision on the provision of free TV licences for people aged over 75.

The Question was considered in a Virtual Proceeding via video call.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the BBC is responsible for the over-75 licence concession—not the Government. The Government are disappointed with the BBC’s decision to restrict the concession to those in receipt of pension credit. Recognising the exceptional circumstances posed by Covid-19, the BBC board has decided to delay the new start date of its policy on over-75s until 1 August; the BBC will keep his issue under review.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Does the Minister accept that it is the Government who are forcing many hundreds of thousands of old people to stay at home for many more months and that, by agreeing to delay the implementation to the beginning of August, they have already accepted the principle that the TV is vital for many old people for information about Covid-19 and other things as well for entertainment? Since August is less than two months away, will the Minister and the Government get around the table with the BBC and decide to continue this delay indefinitely, or are they willing to condemn many hundreds of thousands of old people to even greater isolation and misery?

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord seeks to protect the health of our nation and that particularly includes old people. As I understand it, they are especially vulnerable to the impacts of Covid-19, so staying at home is a health issue. The Government are regularly around the table with the BBC and the other public service broadcasters; my right honourable friend the Secretary of State said recently that, should we be in a similar situation at the beginning of August, she very much hoped that the BBC would show the same flexibility on this issue as it has shown already.

Premier League: Project Restart

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Tuesday 19th May 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Speaker]

We will go on just for a minute. I call the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes of Cumnock.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I know that sport is devolved but international relations are reserved to the UK Government, so will they make representations to UEFA to investigate why the Scottish Premier League is not carrying out its clear instructions to complete the top-tier domestic competition? It is flouting what UEFA has recommended.

[Baroness Barran]

My understanding is that it is up to the Scottish Premier League to agree with its member clubs the way forward, taking into account the particular opportunities and challenges that they face.

BBC and Public Service Broadcasting

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 5th March 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am grateful to speak in this debate and I join in the justifiably effusive congratulations to my noble friend Lord Young. This has been one of the most impressive and informed debates I have sat through in this Chamber, and we have many impressive ones—it has been really tremendous.

The role of public service broadcasting is a crucial issue. I highlighted it recently in a report I was privileged to prepare for the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe on threats to media freedom throughout Europe. As I reported, public service broadcasters are under increasing threat from the growing number of authoritarian Governments in Europe today, and now, sadly, we see it happening here in the United Kingdom, as my noble friends Lady Liddell and Lord Puttnam said. As was made clear to me by MPs from all over Europe at the parliamentary assembly, the BBC is seen as the gold standard in public service broadcasting.

As my noble friends have said, the BBC is under attack in different ways: the principle of funding through the licence fee, in particular; but also, as others have said, in the despicable way of passing the buck for free TV licences for the over-75s, which is and ought to be the responsibility of the Government, and the Department for Work and Pensions in particular. It is disgraceful that that buck should be passed to the BBC. It will have a huge impact on vulnerable pensioners up and down the country, particularly those who fall just short of qualifying for pension credit but are by no means well off. It is those people who will be hardest hit by the changes, contrary to what was in Tory manifesto, which promises older people

“the security and dignity they deserve”.

Loneliness is a critical issue facing older people. It is an issue I have raised previously, in this Chamber and in my work as chair of Age Scotland, and it is one that the Government pretend to be concerned about. Research by Age UK found that more than 1 million people say that TV is their main source of company, yet the lack of responsibility from the Government to honour their promise to support older people who rely heavily on TV has been rightly met with overwhelming dismay and disappointment. That 2019 manifesto said:

“We recognise the value of free TV licences for over-75s”,


yet the Government still continue with the nonsense that their licences should be funded by the BBC, despite the widespread opposition.

Another worrying aspect of this approach is that asking the BBC to take on this responsibility must be incompatible with data protection laws, as well as being a time-consuming and costly exercise. Above all, I fear that some pensioners who will, in fact, remain entitled to free TV licences will nevertheless pay the fee for fear of prosecution, the resultant fines and even the threat of imprisonment if this remains a criminal offence. It is outrageous that the Government should put the most vulnerable people in our society in this position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

We are now into March. This scheme is supposed to come into operation in a couple of months, yet we do not know how it is going to operate, who is eligible or whether the data protection laws will come into it. The last time I raised this, the noble Baroness said that she was disappointed that the BBC had not taken the funding on board. What is happening in relation to sorting this out?

[Baroness Barran]

If he will forgive me, in the interests of time I will write to the noble Lord with some of the detail. He raised a point about data sharing and the over-75s concession. The BBC’s decision document sets out that the BBC will operate a self-verification model. Therefore, the issues that he has raised should not arise but I am happy to write to him in detail about this.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Judd, Lord Hennessy and Lord West, raised soft power—a matter that I have already touched on. The Government strongly support the BBC’s mission to bring high-quality and impartial news to audiences across the world. The noble Lord, Lord West, had done some clever maths on expenditure.

BBC: TV Licence Evasion

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 5th February 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The last thing that this Government want to do is weaken or abandon an asset as strong and important as the BBC. My noble friend the Secretary of State set out the process earlier today and it might be helpful to repeat that. She said, “What we are talking about today is the consultation on decriminalisation. The licence fee for the 2022 to 2027 period will be the next stage in terms of setting that and then there is the mid-charter review confirming that the obligations in the charter have been met”. The full charter review needs to be thought through and everything will be included within that, including the funding model, making sure that the BBC remains the asset that we all cherish, but in a very changed world.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Will the Minister tell the House whether, under the cover of this consultation, the Government intend to renege on their promise to continue free TV licences for those over 75?

[Baroness Barran]

The Government remain disappointed with the BBC’s decision to restrict the over-75 licence fee concession to those in receipt of pension credit.

TV Licence Fee Enforcement

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes]

I thank the noble Lord. I know that these issues were also considered briefly by this House yesterday during a Question responded to by my noble friend. Like the noble Lord, I will take the opportunity to pay tribute to the leadership of the BBC that the outgoing director-general has shown over the last seven years. It will undoubtedly be a challenging act for the board to find somebody to replace him.

I take what the noble Lord said about the way that TV licence evasion prosecutions are handled. However, it is correct that, in 2018, 121,203 people were prosecuted and sentenced for non-payment of a licence and, as I think came up yesterday, the broadcasting landscape is changing, people across the country are concerned about the payment of the licence fee, and it is right that the Government should look at the system overall, with lots of consultation.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, but what are the Government doing to ensure the continuation of free TV licences for all people over 75?

[Baroness Morgan of Cotes]

Well, I discuss this issue regularly with senior management of the BBC. The Government of course remain disappointed that, despite the settlement agreed with the BBC over the licence fee in 2015, which was welcomed by the BBC at the time, this step has been taken. Discussions continue, but we think that the BBC should be funding free TV licences for the over-75s.

Birmingham Commonwealth Games Bill [HL]

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend. Of course, we will continue to have discussions with advertising stakeholders. As I think I have made clear throughout the passage of this Bill, we and the organising committee are very willing to talk to people about any concerns they have on it. I have made that point before and I repeat it now.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

Could the Minister help me? He mentioned the Commonwealth Games in Glasgow and the Commonwealth Games London. I had the great privilege of attending the Commonwealth Games in Edinburgh in 1970, which were very different from the Games in Glasgow and London. I know the noble Lord, Lord Campbell of Pittenweem, did not participate in the Edinburgh Games, but it was not long after he had participated. Has the Minister taken account of anything that happened with the Edinburgh Games?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I ought to correct the noble Lord for the record. Glasgow certainly hosted the Commonwealth Games, but London had the Olympic Games. I am not trying to show him up; it is important because they are very different. One of the interesting things about this proposal, and one of the reasons why we are dealing with it in a shortened timescale, is that the costs of putting on the Commonwealth Games are considerable, as has been mentioned. The Commonwealth Games Federation had to look at how to make it possible for them to be put on around the world, not just in the richest nations of the Commonwealth.

On lessons from previous Games, we have looked at financing and the other issues we discussed earlier. We can learn lessons from Glasgow and Edinburgh, and I hope the noble Lord enjoys watching the Games in Birmingham—I assume he is not participating—as much as he did those in Edinburgh.

Free Television Licences

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Monday 15th July 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

My noble friend makes the point that we are where we are. This was debated by Parliament and agreed. I know that some people, some noble Lords included, did not agree with the decision to pass responsibility to the BBC in the Digital Economy Act; nevertheless, that was done and the BBC is living up to the responsibility it was given. Dealing with the change in the structure of fees is a very difficult job, and television is changing dramatically, so I sympathise with the BBC; it has a difficult job to do. Nevertheless, we gave it a lot of warning—this was agreed in 2015—and that is why we are disappointed with what it has decided.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the chair of Age Scotland. This is not a matter for the BBC: it is a government responsibility. The Minister says that the Bill that my noble friend on the Front Bench referred to is not appropriate, but there is an appropriate Bill: I have a Private Member’s Bill, which has had its First Reading and will transfer responsibility back from the BBC to the Government. It will enable the Government to implement the promise that they made in their election manifesto. Will the Government support that Bill? If not, why not?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord repeats his mantra that it is not the BBC’s responsibility. We decided in 2015, and the BBC agreed, that it would be its responsibility. After that, Parliament agreed in the Digital Economy Act that it would be the BBC’s responsibility.

Older Persons: Provision of Public Services

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Thursday 13th June 2019 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

That this House takes note of the case for the provision of free public transport and television licences for older persons as a means to alleviate loneliness and isolation and of the case for maintaining well-funded public services to support care for the elderly.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am particularly grateful to my noble friends in the Labour group in the Lords for agreeing to bring this topic forward and for asking me to speak to it. It is a really important issue, as is indicated by both the number of Peers wishing to speak and indeed by the distinguished nature of those who have put their names down for the debate—I said that to ensure their support.

The subject is one I care very deeply about. I have had a long-standing interest, as some colleagues know, in age-related issues, dating back to the 1970s, when I was director of Age Concern Scotland. I should also declare an interest, not because I have manifestly got more of a vested interest in age-related issues, but because I am the current chair of Age Scotland, an office of which I am particularly proud.

The scourge of loneliness throughout society is widespread and until relatively recently was not often talked about. There is now an increasing awareness, however, illustrated by the fact that next week marks the third annual Loneliness Awareness Week. Older people are especially vulnerable to loneliness and social isolation. People can become socially isolated for a variety of reasons, such as decreased social mobility, families moving on, leaving the security of the workplace, the deaths of spouses and friends, or simply through disability or illness. Whatever the cause, feeling alone and vulnerable can lead to other, more serious issues, such as depression and a serious decline in physical as well as mental health and well-being.

According to research carried out by the Office for National Statistics, more than half of all 75 year-olds live alone and 10% of 65 year-olds say that they are always or often lonely. That equates to more than a million people saying that they are always or often lonely. The research also found that older people are far less likely to let it be known that that they suffer from loneliness. A particular urgency and immediacy have been given to this debate by the frankly appalling news that the universal right of over-75s to a free television licence is to be ended. This has been greeted with widespread dismay. Indeed, the Age UK petition calling on the Government to reverse this decision was sitting at 433,000 this afternoon, after just a few days. If this policy is carried through, it will add substantially to the problem we are discussing today, that of loneliness among elderly people.

Since 2000, anyone aged 75 and over has been entitled to a concessionary TV licence. This was a progressive Labour policy, introduced by then Chancellor, Gordon Brown, which has increasingly become a vital benefit for older people, particularly poorer older people. However, in 2015 this Government, opposed by Labour, decided to transfer the costs of the concessionary licence to the BBC as part of a wider agreement regarding the licence fee. On Monday, following what it says was its largest ever consultation, the BBC decided to end this benefit unless the person was receiving pension credit. I doubt that any of those directly affected supported this outcome. Indeed, 48% of those consulted supported the status quo—nearly half did not want any change at all and the rest put forward various forms of change.

For those living alone, the TV is often their main companion—their window to the outside world. Research by Age UK sadly found that over a million people say that the TV is their main source of company. One in four over-75s views the TV as their main source of companionship.

The Conservative Party agreed and pledged to protect free TV licences for over-75s in its 2017 election manifesto—on page 66 to be precise, if the Minister wants to double-check that. The corporation has estimated that over 3 million people will lose the free TV licence under these proposals. Those who receive pension credit equate to only a little more than 800,000, or 15% of those currently eligible. The people who will be hardest hit are those who just fall short of qualifying for pension credit, but who can by no stretch of the imagination be described as wealthy. Indeed, by being over that limit, they are already no longer entitled to help with spectacles, teeth and extra heating, so they will be quadrupally disadvantaged by this proposal. The £154.50 which to noble Lords in this place may not seem a lot is absolutely crucial to the survival of these pensioners. It is the difference, in some cases, between heating and eating. They are counting every penny, and now have this additional blow.

Let us be clear—and I am glad that my noble friend Lord Bragg is speaking in this debate—that the Government cannot blame the betrayal of that commitment on the BBC. It was not the BBC that published the manifesto; it was the Conservative Party. It now has an absolute moral obligation to ensure that the promise is fulfilled. On Tuesday I asked the Minister who is replying to the debate today, since the legislation transferring responsibility to the BBC was passed before the 2017 election, how the Conservatives, when they decided to include in their manifesto that they would maintain free TV licences for those aged 75 and over, expected to be able to implement that promise. I look forward to hearing that in the reply; I will jump up if I do not get it. He was not able to give a satisfactory answer on Tuesday, so I look forward to it this evening.

No. 10 issued an astonishing, hypocritical statement, saying that it, the head of the Government, expected the BBC to continue the concession and pointed towards the large salaries of senior BBC staff. These are two separate issues. Whatever one thinks about BBC salaries, they are a drop in the ocean compared to the £745 million—a fifth of the BBC’s budget—that this would cost. This is a social welfare issue. The BBC is not the Department for Work and Pensions, and the Government must answer the straightforward question of why they are breaking their manifesto commitment to more than 3 million older people.

I will return to the general theme of this debate. The work carried out by many charities to mitigate government policies is absolutely crucial. A key part of the strategy of charities has been to focus on loneliness—we have had that in Age Scotland and Age UK in the past year. A number of essential services have been set up: friendship groups which bring people together, allowing them to socialise; and women have been getting together more, but now through Men’s Sheds men are getting together to use their skills to help society as a whole. There are also helplines that provide free and confidential help, as well as benefit and other advice, specifically for the elderly. One helpline, getting around 10,500 calls every week from lonely and isolated older people, says that 53% of the callers say they have no one else to speak to. That is why they are phoning. It should also be said that the handling of these calls is often carried out by great volunteers, some of whom I have seen at Age Scotland.

While every such initiative is crucial and should be encouraged, they do not address the scale of the issue. The Jo Cox Commission on Loneliness, set up following the death of the wonderful former MP who campaigned tirelessly on this issue, found that while government cannot solve loneliness alone—of course it cannot—it could bring together the key actors and develop a clear strategy. That led to £20 million in extra funding to address the issue—which, frankly, is a drop in the ocean—as well as widening the role of a DCMS Minister to include this area and lead cross-government strategy. But it was not the creation of a Minister for Loneliness, as some in government and the media have claimed.

These are all welcome steps, but they take place before the backdrop of massive government cuts in social care for older people. The LGA has estimated that there will be a £1.5 billion funding gap by 2019-20 for local authorities, rising to £3.5 billion by 2024-25. How can we expect there to be any chance of those concerned with the welfare of older people overcoming all these challenges?

This brings me to free and concessionary bus passes, which are also of great importance. They allow for accessible travel and interaction with other people, making loneliness less likely. I have been really keen on this, as I know the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, was when she worked with Age Concern England. They get all the people out and about, to mix, keep active and become less reliant on health and social services, and save money as a result. In rural areas especially, they are also crucial for getting older people to medical appointments, banks and post offices. In 2017-18, there were 8.5 million passes in England for older people. It is estimated that 71% of eligible women and 67% of eligible men have a pass.

But the LGA estimates that there is a £652 million funding gap, with local authorities having to fund the costs out of their hard-pressed resources. The SNP cutbacks are affecting local government in Scotland as well. There have been suggestions, including, regrettably, by some Peers, of means testing for free bus passes. However, research by Age UK has pointed to the dangers of this. Better-off people are far less likely to obtain and use a bus pass, so the savings through means testing would be modest and the administration costs great. Take-up is higher among those from lower-income groups, and it is they who will be deterred from applying if means testing is introduced. However, the free and concessionary travel on buses for older people also helps keep these vital bus services viable to be used by the rest of the population. They would not exist if they did not have older people using their passes on them.

This brings me to the recent report by the Select Committee on Intergenerational Fairness and Provision. It has made some positive recommendations on intergenerational provision, which are welcome, but I disagree with its specific recommendations 33, 34, 35 and 36. These relate to age-related benefits, removing the triple lock on the state pension, phasing out free TV licences and raising the age that you start receiving certain benefits. It made these recommendations on the basis that younger households are sadly now relatively poorer than older households. However, that is not an argument for reducing the hard-earned entitlements of older people. Nor does it represent a general truth. There are millions of older people struggling to make ends meet and suffering from loneliness at the same time.

What is important is the inequality between the richest and the poorest in society, as we heard in my noble friend Lord Dubs’s debate earlier today. Surely that is the division in society we should seek to address, rather than playing off poorer younger households against poorer older households. Some 21% of wealth in the UK is held by 1% of the population. Over 40% is held by 5% of the population. It is they who should help the poor of every generation.

The first aim of this debate is to emphasise the sheer scale of the problem we are dealing with. Loneliness may be out of sight and out of mind, almost by definition, but it is the daily experience of millions and poor reward for the contributions they have made to society through their active lifetimes. Those noble Lords who watched, as I did, the D-day celebrations will have seen those veterans. Were they not fantastic? Were their statements not great? When you think of the contributions that they have made, why should they and others of their generation suffer?

We need to support and encourage the many admirable initiatives which exist. However, the role of government cannot be overstated. Even if a particular measure does not include the word “loneliness”, it may well have a huge negative impact on those who are already enduring that condition and seeing their few lifelines of human contact under threat.

Free travel and free TV licences are two particularly powerful examples of how we can help—there are many others. An awareness of this issue and the unhappiness it creates must run through government as a whole to influence policies to ensure no further damage, but instead an enhancement of essential services and the quality of life that they underpin.

Sadly, the threat to TV licences shows how quickly progress can be reversed and the promises from Ministers rendered meaningless. An immediate reversal of this disgraceful decision would be the best illustration that the Government understand the problem and are listening.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for giving me a couple of minutes. It has been an exceptional debate. My only regret is that it has not been at prime time, when more Members would have been here to hear the wonderful eloquence of the noble Baroness, Lady Redfern; the plea for art and culture from my noble friend Lord Howarth; the speech of my noble friend Lord O’Neill, who I welcome back from his hospital bed; and the contributions of all those noble Lords I have not mentioned. It has been a tremendous debate.

However, the Minister answered many questions on loneliness—he was helpful on that and other matters—but he has not answered the crucial question even though my noble friend Lord Browne put him under tremendous pressure. There were questions about the practicability of the BBC running this scheme—it will be impractical—and, on enforceability, whether the Government have the ability to make the BBC do what it apparently promised. I can assure the Minister that, as far as the TV licence issue is concerned, we will return to it again and again until we get a proper answer and action.

These older people, who have given so much to society, depend on TV for contact, news, entertainment and information. They deserve more from us and more from the Government, and we will return to this issue again and again until we get proper answers from the Government.

Motion agreed.

Free TV Licences for Over-75s

Lord Foulkes of Cumnock Excerpts

Tuesday 11th June 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The public’s money is what the Government spend. Everything that the Government do is with taxpayers’ money, so I do not really understand the noble Baroness’s point. I should mention, as the noble Lord mentioned the Liberal Democrats, that the Liberal Democrat 2015 manifesto committed to remove the concession for higher-rate taxed pensioners. We have to be careful about what we said when. As for the point about social welfare, the agreement made in 2015 was not about tax policy; it was simply about whether the BBC should have the responsibility for the concession, and that is what it was given.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as chair of Age Scotland. This sorry affair is wholly the responsibility of Her Majesty’s Government, not the BBC. Perhaps the Minister could explain one simple thing. Since the legislation was passed before the 2017 election, when the Conservatives included in their manifesto that they would maintain free TV licences for those aged 75-plus, how did they expect to be able to implement that promise?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

Of course the noble Lord is right that, before that promise was made, everyone knew that Parliament had agreed that responsibility for the concession fell to the BBC. It was in the BBC’s hands. That is why the Secretary of State has frequently said that he expected the BBC to continue that concession. Do not forget that the BBC has had since 2015 to accept that. This is not some small SME; this is a £5 billion company which has substantial revenues not only from the taxpayer but from its own resources. It could do that. It knew exactly what deal it had gone into. That was not only agreed but promoted by the director-general as being a good deal for the BBC.