Civil Aviation Bill
Lord Empey Excerpts(11 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, it will come as no surprise that I am sympathetic to the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Stephen, albeit that I accept that it may not be in the right place today, as the noble Lord, Lord Soley, said. However, it chimes with what I have been trying to do over the past 18 months. As I said earlier to the noble Earl and the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, we will have the pleasure, on the graveyard shift on Friday afternoon, of discussing my Private Member’s Bill, the Airports (Amendment) Bill, which is designed to deal with this issue, but in a different way.
Things in my region are fine right now—there are 10 or 11 flights a day to Heathrow—but the airline sector is very volatile. Already, Mr O’Leary of Ryanair is trying to buy out Aer Lingus, while Etihad has taken a small stake and is looking to increase it; they are not known for their interest in the regions. The point made by the noble Lord, Lord Soley, is that there is a key economic driver here. I have spent quite a lot of time over the years in politics and economic development. One thing is absolutely clear: if you cannot get businesspeople quickly to and from a region, the opportunities to develop economically are severely restricted. People will not go all round the countryside for hours, waiting to get flights. They need to come to a hub and get quickly to a region. Any other route is just a huge obstacle in their way. That is just common sense.
I have attempted to deal with this at two levels, both within the UK and at a European level, because there is a major European component to this. I know that I will have the opportunity to share this with the noble Earl on Friday, but a major piece of work has been undertaken in Europe; by sheer coincidence, it happens to be working in parallel on reviewing its whole slot activity and related matters. I am pleased that the European Parliament, because it accepts the Europe of the regions, understands and is sympathetic to a lot of these issues. We are gradually moving in a positive direction in Europe, to the extent that the Government will not ultimately be in the position of saying, “Well, we may be sympathetic to what you need, but we cannot do it because it is against European law, and we will have to get that law changed in parallel”.
As the noble Lord, Lord Soley, said, in quoting the letter from the Minister, the connectivity issue is at the core of regional development policy and has been for donkey’s years. That is why we have regional policy in the UK. For years, Europe has been putting large amounts of money into the regions, to improve their connectivity and their infrastructure. There is not much point in doing that if we cannot then fly from a region to a major hub; all the investment is wasted. At least in Scotland, and to some extent in the south-west, there are alternatives, albeit slow ones—that is, road or rail. In our part of the country, we do not have the luxury of that option. In practice, it is basically air or nothing. That is the dilemma that we are faced with. So while I have a lot of sympathy with what the noble Lord, Lord Stephen, is trying to do, I suspect that he will probably suffer a technical knockout this afternoon. Nevertheless, his heart and his aspirations are in the right place and I hope that the sentiments expressed in the Minister’s letter will be followed up positively.
Lord Rosser
My Lords, this amendment is fairly wide-ranging in calling for the CAA to,
“have regard to the economic and social impact of services, provided by airport operators and users of airport facilities, on the UK as a whole”.
In moving his amendment, the noble Lord, Lord Stephen, referred in particular to services between London and Aberdeen. That is presumably the issue that has primarily prompted this amendment. We are aware of the concerns about the present arrangements for determining slots and charges at airports and about the operation of routes in such a way that cities such as Aberdeen may lose out, which would not be to the economic advantage of the UK either, bearing in mind the importance of Aberdeen and north-east Scotland in the global oil and gas market.
Reference has already been made to the letter from the Minister in which he expressed some sympathy with the concerns that have been raised. However, he went on to say that he did not think that this Bill was the appropriate vehicle to address them. Interestingly, he also said that he did not believe that air services between London and Aberdeen were under threat since it was a commercially attractive route for airlines. I will not go through the other points made in the Minister’s recent letter. However, as he said that he had some sympathy with the concerns raised, I am sure that he will want to put on the public record through his response to this debate what action the Government feel should be taken by others and by them to address the issue that has been drawn to the attention of your Lordships’ House through the amendment.
Britain’s Industrial Base
Lord Empey Excerpts(11 years, 9 months ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, like other Members I welcome the Minister to his new role. He comes to the Department at a very critical time. I also thank Lord Adonis for securing this debate, because if we listen to even today’s trade figures, we realise what a mountain this country has to climb.
Lord Adonis opened his remarks by telling a story about wind turbines. May I inform him that in my own home city of Belfast, Harland and Wolff shipyard now assembles wind turbines and works very closely with Siemens in building the transformers and power distribution systems that have to be at sea. We hope that that will be a source of considerable economic growth.
This country took a wrong turning in the 1960s and 1970s, when contempt began to emerge for our manufacturing sector. It was true that British industry was disfigured by widespread strikes and became a byword for how not to do things. Motor vehicles were the most obvious example of where things began to go wrong, poor quality being the most obvious flaw. But in Whitehall a view began to emerge that we could no longer make things that the world wanted to buy, so we should move over to the service side. Finance, insurance, tourism and, later, IT were among the growth sectors. It was believed that the service sector could make up the losses in manufacturing jobs that people would no longer need. Therefore they would no longer require apprenticeships but could be trained for the white-collar jobs emerging, including a big surge in the public sector. A by-product of this thinking was the redistribution of jobs from the north of the UK to the south-east, something which still haunts us today.
The massive increase in interest rates in the early 1980s extinguished large swathes of our manufacturing sector. People were paying up to 22.5%. While much of the sector was clearly uncompetitive, the rapid and uncontrolled demise of such a large part of industry was regrettable and we still live with many of the consequences. The belief that we could survive in the modern world without making things that people here and in other parts of the world wanted to buy has been shown to be wrong.
Traditionally, as an island nation, we have always been traders of manufactures. This was our lifeblood and we turn our back on this part of our history at our peril. The strength of any country’s industrial base comes from either the possession of large quantities of natural resources or from a highly skilled and motivated workforce with access to capital—or from a combination of both. There is a growing realisation that we have ignored manufacturing for too long and that our ability to pay for our public services is inextricably linked to our ability to export more goods and tradable services. Our trade deficit is running at about £40 billion a year—of which half is with China—and urgent action is necessary. We cannot permanently rely on borrowing to sustain our lifestyles.
People glibly say that the way out of our financial difficulties is to “grow the economy”. Who says that we are guaranteed a growing economy? What happens if the natural growth in world demand is met by emerging economies? What happens if we have to rely long-term on the current level of economic activity? The first thing that we must do is to ensure that we hold on to what we have and ensure that it is fit for purpose.
Ironically, as we speak, the future of our major defence company is on the line with the proposed merger between BAE Systems and EADS, as a number of noble Lords have mentioned. The UK is number two in the world in the aerospace sector, with approximately 17% of world markets. I fully understand that defence spending is under great pressure here, in the rest of Europe and in the United States, and the temptation to spread the load and the risk with this merger must be great, but this is one decision that we must get right. Like many, I feel most concerned that any defence supplier to Her Majesty’s forces should not be subject to any political pressure from any other Government, whether French, German or American.
We have seen examples in recent years of how Governments differ. In Libya last year, the German Government did not fire a shot in anger, and we recall that it was a French Exocet missile that created havoc for the Royal Navy during the Falklands dispute. What would happen if HMG took a different stance on a future conflict from either or both of those partners? How could we be sure that supplies of parts and spares would flow if those shareholders and HMG were on opposite camps? The Americans may have concerns over security of supply, but they also have commercial fish to fry; if they can find a way of pushing BAE out of the US market, there will be more to go around for US contractors. This is a very difficult decision, and I hope that we get an early chance to debate these issues before irrevocable decisions are taken.
As a nation, we must refocus on getting business the skills to train internationally, and I hope that the Chancellor will see to it that there are fiscal incentives to favour those companies and individuals that create wealth, rather than seeing them penalised for their entrepreneurship.
Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2012
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, the bulk of these proposals are, I understand, tidying up and technical in their nature. Therefore, some pieces of legislation were in process through this place at the time that devolution was implemented, and consequently missed the deadline for inclusion in the legislation at that stage. However, I want to ask the Minister about one area: Clause 9 of the Immigration and Asylum Act 1999.
Before the Minister answers, I make the general point that people have short memories. It is not that long ago that we would have been talking about significant numbers of disturbances in July. This year, most of the cameras were fixed on an area that hardly stretches the distance from where the Deputy Chairman of Committees is sitting to the end of this Room. Consequently, we have to take into account the fact that there has been dramatic change and progress, something which is frequently forgotten.
Parading has been an issue for centuries. This is not new. I think that it has moved on significantly, because there is a greater acceptance of people’s different cultures and the way in which they celebrate their cultures. Of course, the country as a whole is having to come to terms with that. There has been progress.
The issue of the Parades Commission is particular and has come in for a lot of criticism over the past few weeks. This, again, is not a new phenomenon, but if people want to find a solution to these issues, the only way that it will be found is through engagement with all political parties in a meaningful way and wider sections of the community at local level. An attempt was made two years ago to bring forward proposals but, sadly, not all parties were fully involved in that. That can easily be corrected. The particular proposals I would have had great difficulty with. Some of them were not thought through properly. Neither do I believe that it is beyond our collective ability to find a solution. Over time, we found solutions to things that people thought were absolutely impossible.
Yes, it can be resolved but it will require everybody to be engaged at a political level. That is the only way we were ever able to get agreement on the Northern Ireland Act 1998: because everybody was engaged. That could be repeated on the parades issue, and of course other contentious issues like how we treat the past. The whole issue of inquiries is very contentious. There is clearly a hierarchy of victims. We are coming up to the 40th anniversary of Bloody Friday in Belfast, which was a terrible event. There has been no inquiry into that. There are no prosecutions pending or investigations going on into that event. Nine people were killed that day; I remember it very well.
There is still work to be done. This is going to take a generation. People need to stand back, look at where we were and look at where we are. No matter how you measure it, it is a good story to tell. We should take comfort from that. The story coming out of Northern Ireland is predominantly a good news story, and I hope that other parts of the world that are still struggling can perhaps learn a little, and that perhaps we can help a little. I recently met some people from the Middle East and I am sure other noble Lords have done the same.
I specifically want to ask the Minister about Section 9 of the Immigration and Asylum Act as I am a little confused. I am not fully conversant with all sections of the Act but can the Minister explain it a bit more? Will he also tell us whether this legislation is applicable to Scotland? Policing and other functions are devolved to the Scottish Parliament, so is there consistency throughout the United Kingdom in the treatment and implementation of the Immigration and Asylum Act? There is an issue because, unfortunately, Northern Ireland is being used by some people as a back door into the United Kingdom. They are coming into the Irish Republic and are getting into the United Kingdom via Northern Ireland. There have been some cases recently of arrests being made, and I believe some people either have been, or are about to be, before the courts for immigration offences. Can the Minister expand a bit in his final answers on that question?
Lord Kilclooney
My Lords, I apologise as I have to be brief due to other commitments this afternoon. I want to refer to some of the comments made by the noble Lords, Lord McAvoy, Lord Alderdice and Lord Empey. This order of course has my personal support and, as a former Minister of Home Affairs dealing with the police in the middle of the last century, it is clearly of great interest to me. However, I am not going to talk about the past, I am going to talk about one or two present-day problems in Northern Ireland.
First, I note my entry in the register of interests, as I am going to talk about the media. The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, mentioned contentious parades, and the noble Lords, Lord Alderdice and Lord Empey, emphasised what a great improvement there has been in Northern Ireland in that context. Incidentally, is it not a sign of the improvement in circumstances in Northern Ireland that 100 members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland incorporating the former Royal Ulster Constabulary, are coming to rescue London from its problems next week? That represents a change in what is happening within the United Kingdom.
One of the things that worried me during the past week, watching the media here in Great Britain, especially Sky and the BBC, was that they concentrated on one parade only, near the Ardoyne. There were hundreds of parades last week in Northern Ireland, all of which were peaceful and orderly—but not one reference was made to that by the media here in Great Britain. Worse still, they misrepresented what did happen. They reported—not simply alleged—that an Orange parade went through the Ardoyne. It did not go through the Ardoyne, it went down the main road past the Ardoyne. To walk through the Ardoyne would have been absolutely criminal, and madness. They do not get the terminology correct and give the impression of provocation. There was no riot immediately after that Orange walk—it was after a parade by supporters of the Real IRA, who went down that road a few hours later. Once again, the media did not make that clear here in London and there were terribly misleading reports.
The second point—bringing us right up to date as we are talking about the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland and the devolution of powers from here to Stormont—regards a report recently in the Tyrone Constitution. It is a paper with which I am personally connected but I had no involvement in the report. It was a local report of an Omagh District Council meeting. Councillors from all parties, Sinn Fein, Ulster Unionists and the DUP, were reported as complaining about departments of government—I think the Department of Justice was mentioned—discriminating against the people outside greater Belfast. This is something now taking place under the terms of consultation. Who are these government departments, including the Department of Justice, consulting with and who are they offering jobs to? They are restricting the advertising of jobs and consultation documents to press within the greater Belfast area and no longer using the media outside Belfast. The result is that there is now a bias in favour of the people living within the greater Belfast area. As one who lives west of the Bann myself, I am getting complaints now from people—and the report in the Tyrone Constitution is typical of what I am hearing— that people in Londonderry, Tyrone and Fermanagh and Counties Down, Armagh and Antrim are no longer getting the same opportunities as people in the greater Belfast area.
To be personal and specific about one newspaper, the Belfast Telegraph, 55% of its readers now are restricted to the greater Belfast area. There are only about 700 copies of the Belfast Telegraph sold in each of the main towns in Northern Ireland, yet the weekly papers there, many of which are owned by companies with no connection to me, sell 10,000-12,000 copies. However, the Department of Justice advertises in the Belfast Telegraph restricting most of the readers to the greater Belfast area, thereby ignoring the people in the other parts of Northern Ireland. I want to place that on the record today because, as we consider devolving more powers to departments in Belfast, they must treat all sections of the community in Northern Ireland fairly and not continue this discrimination against people living outside greater Belfast.
Civil Aviation Bill
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Lord Rotherwick
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Countess, Lady Mar, and the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, on tabling the amendment. It is most important, and the compelling evidence that we have heard is evidence I have heard about for a long time and, indeed, read in books. If I am right, the aircraft referred to is the one that the royal flight uses and is mainly used for Ministers. If someone said to me that a Minister has faded or gone bonkers, the next question should be: how many times have they flown on the royal flight? We all get into the commercial aeroplanes that we are talking about, so this is something that affects us. Of the Cranfield test, it was suggested—alleged—to me that it was suspect because the aircraft that they had on test were ones given to them by the airlines, not picked at random but, it was alleged, safe aircraft given for tests. One of the unofficial research teams referred to in some books found that, of its swab tests on a range of aircraft, the majority had contamination when the swab tests came off seats.
We have all had the awareness when we come off a plane that we frequently travel on: “Gosh, I was tired on that flight. I’m not normally that tired”. That is a real problem. If the Minister does not accept the amendment, my only advice for noble Lords about planes that take their cabin air, their bleed air, off the engines, off the compressor, is to fly on a Boeing 787, the Dreamliner. It is the first aircraft that does not use the ghastly system that causes the problem; it uses a specialist air system totally independent of the engine.
I hope that the Government will come forward to address this elephant in the room; it affects us all when we go on aircraft.
Lord Empey
My Lords, I do not know whether the amendments before us will be the right vehicle, but they draw attention to a problem that definitely exists. As someone with a family member who is a commercial airline pilot, I am very conscious of the risks involved. It is often pointed out that pilots and air crew are at greater risk of receiving higher levels of radiation because they fly without any protection at very high levels for prolonged periods—indeed, throughout their working lives—and that that makes a difference. Here, there is undoubtedly a problem but the solution is not as immediately obvious. For instance, on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Rotherwick, about the Dreamliner and its new system, many of the huge fleets of existing aircraft have the basic bleed air system so this is not easy to resolve. Mention has been made of the BAe 146, which is a very nice aircraft to fly in and, in particular, to land in, but there have been incidents where aircraft have suffered a large ingress of vapour to the cabin, visible to the passengers. This is not a figment of someone’s imagination; it actually happens. Although it is true to say that pilots on flight decks generally have an independent air supply from that of the people in the main cabin, it is sourced from the same place.
The question is: do we need international action? Let us face it, there are a very small number of aircraft manufacturers in the world and probably an even smaller number of aircraft engine manufacturers. Basically, there needs to be international action by Governments to deal with this issue, whether through an action in this Bill, through action by the Government taken via international organisations or through discussions with the industry. As the Minister pointed out, we are still number two in the world on aerospace, which is a very important industry to this country. I would think that adequate information is bound to be available within the United Kingdom from the manufacturers of engines and aircraft or parts of aircraft generally, and I cannot see any reason why we cannot pursue this issue through that route.
We are in a worldwide competitive market, and no individual airline will be in a position to put its head above the parapet without putting itself out of business. Therefore, we need not only national or European action but international action to deal with this. I guess that we all fly in aircraft that are differently flagged. We could be in an American aircraft, a British aircraft or an aircraft from Abu Dhabi. This is an international issue that needs international action. I do not think that we will resolve it simply by domestic means alone, albeit that we can set an example, and I have no doubt that that is the purpose behind the amendments. I think that the proposers would accept, though, that this needs an international response.
I hope that the Minister will allude to that and say whether he would be prepared to undertake on behalf of the Government to contact our European partners and some of our major manufacturers. We have medical expertise in this country that should be able to identify the significance of the problem. I think that the noble Countess said that you will not find if you do not look, which is a very telling point. Yes, I do not want to see our industry crippled competitively against others but, at the same time, if long-term damage is done to pilots and other air crew as a result of this contamination, that is a matter where we as a Parliament have a duty of care to people in the community who work in that environment, just as the noble Countess identified those people who worked in our agricultural sector and were exposed to vast quantities of contamination.
I recall the time years ago when people said that Sellafield was not a threat in the Irish Sea. We were told that the levels of contamination were perfectly safe. The levels of what people think is safe are now about one-thousandth of what they were 30 years ago. We are all in territory where we know that something is not right but we are not necessarily sure of the solution. There are many examples where substances entering our systems can do long-term damage if people are exposed to them for long periods of time.
I have an open mind on whether this is the right route but I hope that the Minister, on behalf of the Government, at least will address the fundamental and underlying point behind the amendments.
Lord Davies of Oldham
We all understand that point. The noble Countess referred to macho jobs. There are lots of tasks that are extremely dangerous and people are prepared to take them on, but a risk to their health of what is involved is a long-running dimension that this manifestation represents.
My point is obvious enough: I was assured several years ago that there was not sufficient substance in the position as established at that stage for action to be taken. The action, of course, will be dramatic. Reference has been made to the fact that the Dreamliner does not use this air system. The Dreamliner is rather an expensive aircraft to produce, as we all know, and it is in open competition with the A380, which uses the old system. We are talking about massive resources being involved. There is no easy switch. If anyone had thought at any stage that everyone’s health could have been safeguarded just with an easy technological change, that would have been done, but we are talking about something so much bigger.
Lord Empey
Does the noble Lord accept that maintenance is an issue here? The 146’s oil seals were partly responsible when they corroded, largely due to the chemicals to which they were exposed. Maintenance may not be the solution but it is certainly an issue.
Lord Davies of Oldham
It certainly is; the 146 illustrated that in graphic terms and that is why changes were made. I hope that the Minister is able today to build on experience. After all, the issue has been before the department, thanks to the work of the noble Countess, over a number of years now. I hope that he is able to give the Committee reassurances about this question of health and how it is being monitored. I do not have the slightest doubt that if we are wrong, we would all feel dreadfully culpable because significant warning signals have been sent out, and that is why the issue has to be treated with the utmost seriousness.
Civil Aviation Bill
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Lord Soley
I am broadly sympathetic to this group of amendments tabled by my noble friend Lord Davies, and to the recommendations of the Transport Select Committee. It is always dangerous to put too much in a Bill, but on this we need to start with the recognition that when a person comes into an airport, particularly to a major airport such as Heathrow, it is their first impression of the United Kingdom. If they are coming here from any of the emerging countries—especially China, India or Brazil—the image for someone who is thinking of setting up a business and investing here is not good. It has got a lot better since Terminal 5 opened at Heathrow. I readily accept that there is a much greater desire to do things about this. I also accept that, as my noble friend Lord Davies has pointed out, a lot of the recent problems were not caused by things that the Bill will cover; they were caused by immigration control and so on. The image of vast queues moving very slowly—which is what were seen, even if that issue will not be covered by these amendments—is very bad for Britain. It is less true for other airports but it is still true; so we need to get our act together and do rather better on this.
I was trying to envisage someone who had just emerged from one of these long queues taking part in one of these surveys, whether for immigration purposes or anything else. They might give some short, sharp answers to the questions. We have to do better. That is the thrust of these amendments and of what the Transport Select Committee was saying. I urge the Minister to look at this matter sympathetically and see whether he can come up with some way of constantly emphasising the importance of the passenger having a good experience. It does not do our business or general tourist travel any good at all to have the images we have had.
I dread to think of what will happen if we have problems of runway availability at Heathrow during the Olympics. You can see what will happen if there is a severe weather event that causes a back-up because there is no alternative runway space. You then have the inevitable position of all the other problems at the airport, and you will have some very disappointed people coming into Britain. This is rather important and the airports and the Government need to look at this whole area.
Lord Empey
My Lords, I am sure that most of us travelling through airports have been approached at one time or another by the person with the dreaded clipboard. No doubt all noble Lords here were free and giving of their time and answers to help these people establish their true feelings.
Whether the particular methodology contained in these amendments is right, I am not sure. No one wants to add to the difficulties of getting a licence or to the bureaucracy involved. Nevertheless, underneath all that, the noble Lord, Lord Davies, is making a fundamental point that we all share. There have been a number of cases in recent years where the whole image of this country and the welfare of many thousands of passengers have undoubtedly been put to the test. Unfortunately, on some occasions, the relevant airports have failed that test. One constantly hears that there is an absence of information being fed back to the passenger.
Of course, these emergencies obviously come out of the blue in many cases. Sometimes the airports are not properly prepared, they do not have enough staff or facilities and one understands that this is not easy to cure. Nevertheless, it should be at the core of what we are trying to do. We are trying to make aviation more efficient but, in parallel with that, we have to make it a more pleasurable experience.
In so many walks of life—we are talking mostly about finance—consumer welfare and consumer benefits are put at the core of many of the things that we do in this country. That is right and there is therefore some merit in these amendments. Whether this methodology is the right one is not necessarily the issue today. The point is that there is a fundamental issue, and I hope that the Minister will refer to it in his reply. Should there be a broadly understood standard that would apply to all airport operators in the event that an emergency will arise, as it inevitably will; and how are people to be treated? Are we to continue to see our television screens covered with images of passengers complaining about their treatment, delays and lack of information?
In order to raise standards, which is our general objective, there should surely be some methodology. I have an open mind as to whether or not it should be this precise mechanism but I hope the Minister will at least acknowledge that this must be at the core of what we do.
Lord Berkeley
My Lords, following the comment of my noble friend Lord Soley about immigration, by coincidence I have in the Crime and Courts Bill an amendment about the immigration service which may be discussed later tonight. The service is woefully inadequate, as my noble friend said. The delays are reflecting very badly on the country.
Passenger satisfaction should be measured in respect of immigration delays as well as many other things, because they are quite significant. My suggestion that I shall probably put tonight is that the immigration service should be given targets. I am not sure that this Government like targets but there might be a target for people with EU passports to wait for not more than 10 minutes, and for those from third countries to wait for not more than half an hour. We can debate what the targets should be. The crucial thing is that the immigration service should be required to pay some kind of compensation to the airlines if they exceed those targets, unless there is an emergency or something like that.
As several noble Lords have said, the key is to have this information. I would much rather see it come from the licence holder than from the immigration service, which might be tempted to massage the figures slightly. My noble friend Lord Davies can think about whether it should go in as a further amendment on Report, but we ought to measure this matter along with some of these other issues to get independent information on passenger satisfaction regarding everything they see when they arrive at or leave an airport.
Lord Empey
“Directions to airport operators in the interests of national air infrastructure
(1) The CAA may give to any airport operator a direction requiring him (according to the circumstances of the case) to do, or not to do, a particular thing specified in the direction, if the CAA considers it necessary to give such a direction in the interests of modifying competition to ensure sufficient national air infrastructure between hub and regional airports.
(2) The Airports Act 1986 is amended as follows.
(3) In section 34 (matters to be taken into account by CAA), after subsection (3)(a) insert—
“(aa) the need to ensure adequate services between hub and regional airports;”.(4) In section 82 (general interpretation), after the definition of “functions” insert—
““hub airport” means an airport used as a transfer point for passengers from one flight to another in order to complete a route”.”
Lord Empey
My Lords, I shall speak also to Amendment 74. Members will, I am sure, recall that we had a debate in this Room in November last year on transport links between the regions and London. Subsequently, in December last year, I tabled a Private Member’s Bill, the Airports (Amendment) Bill, which was given a Second Reading in the House on 16 March.
The amendment’s fundamental aim is to deal with the situation whereby the regions of the United Kingdom do not have guaranteed air access to our principal airport at Heathrow. As your Lordships are aware, the issue of landing slots is controversial, with their ownership in some cases disputed. What is not disputed is that, particularly as far as Heathrow is concerned, airlines have the use of the slots and even put the value attached to them on their balance sheets.
There is no doubt that there has been a significant improvement in air access between the Greater London area and many of the regions, which is to be welcomed. However, the reality is that, while a number of airports have tried to expand their portfolio of destinations, Heathrow is currently the principal hub airport for the United Kingdom. As a consequence, when we consider the amount of money that the Government have put into regional policy, as well as the considerable resources which continue to be put in by the European Union—indeed, in many cases providing funds for infrastructure at airports to promote links between the regions and our national hub airport—it seems an anomaly that the Government have no powers to intervene to ensure that air access exists between the national hub airport and the regions.
That is a serious weakness. Things are changing that quickly in the airline industry. To take an example from my own city, Belfast, Members will be aware that British Airways took over British Midland Airways Ltd recently. A lot of controversy was created because people said that that could theoretically put the principal route between Belfast City Airport and Heathrow under threat. People argued that, as the slots are more valuable to airlines for international routes than domestic routes, there would be a long-term temptation to switch to those sorts of routes.
There was a second development a few weeks ago when Aer Lingus, which runs three flights per day between Belfast International Airport and Heathrow, decided to move to Belfast City Airport. That means that all the Heathrow to Belfast routes are now going from the one airport. If that was not enough, Etihad Airways put in a bid for a percentage of Aer Lingus and only two weeks ago Michael O’Leary said that he wanted to buy the whole of Aer Lingus. When we look at the profile of Etihad Airways and of Mr O’Leary, I am not confident that we could see a guarantee of our air access to Heathrow.
There is a major European Union dimension to this. As the Minister knows, I have been to Brussels twice in the past few months pursuing issues there because, by coincidence, they are looking at the same issue. In December of last year, the Commission produced draft regulations of the Parliament and the Council on common rules for the allocation of slots at European Union airports. They are looking at this and a number of issues at the same time.
If that were not sufficient, the European Parliament has produced an own-initiative report which was passed by the Parliament in May of this year, paragraph 23 of which says that it,
“considers it essential for regional airports to have access to hubs”.
That is exactly what I am trying to achieve through these amendments, because there is a serious weakness. It cannot be right that, as a nation, we invest heavily in trying to develop the commerce and tourism of our regions and at the same time leave in question one of the principal points of access, particularly for an area like mine where there is not the alternative of a train or of road. There is only travel by ferry or air. If you are trying to develop a region to be commercially attractive, it needs air access to the main hub.
Air access is entirely at the mercy of the airlines. The Minister has repeatedly said that the Government are not able to intervene. That is not satisfactory. It puts regions at risk. I have quoted one example of the significant changes in my own region in the past few weeks. That fills people with concern and creates doubt. Doubt creates a potential obstacle to investment, which we do not want to see.
I understand that the Minister has to have regard to the European dimension, which is critical. I visited the European Union two weeks ago and went to the office of Commissioner Kallas, who is responsible for transport, and discussed issues there, and on a number of occasions with Members of the European Parliament because they are engaged in a co-decision process. We happen to have a legislative vehicle passing through at the moment and they, by coincidence, are doing the same thing and looking at slots. There seems to be a unique opportunity to do something to ensure that the regions will not be left out in the cold.
I know that these are difficult issues. You are effectively interfering in the natural competition process, in so far as these slots are attributed by value and if you interfere with them you affect their value. That is why I met with people in Brussels who have specific responsibility for competition issues as well. All of these things we have to deal with. While there are perfectly good connections, and under EU Council Regulation 95/93 a public service obligation can be given to assist transport between one region and another should there be market failure, there is no provision to link a specific city to a specific airport, which is precisely what we need in our case. While there is no market failure at the moment, and I hope that no market failure will ever occur, the fact remains that a principal instrument of government policy—the promotion and economic welfare of the regions, which is also held as a common view by the European Union—is now entirely at the whim of whatever commercial operation happens to be going on within or between airlines. That is not a satisfactory situation, which is why I tabled Amendment 46.
Amendment 74 deals with the point that introducing my proposals would be against European Union regulations. Amendment 74 merely points out that the powers would reside with the Secretary of State but could not be implemented until they became compliant with European Union regulations. That, in essence, is what I am trying to achieve: that the regions are guaranteed access to the principal hub airport at Heathrow, and that we become compliant with European Union regulations, where Parliament has already expressed that it is essential for regions to have access to hubs. As for its part in the co-decision process, I hope that over the next year or so in Brussels we will be able to make the arguments that will make us compliant with European Union regulations. I beg to move.
Lord Davies of Oldham
Briefly, I have considerable sympathy with the case put forward by the noble Lord, Lord Empey. We appreciate that Belfast and Northern Ireland have a particular interest in air travel. I also draw the attention of the Committee to the fact that Scotland, and Edinburgh in particular, is also concerned about the reduction in services that may be attendant on commercial transactions on slots.
I recognise that this is a difficult issue for the Minister, particularly as we are divided on much of the guidance on what government aviation policy is in the round. This dimension of it therefore explores an area on which the Government are likely to say that we could come back next month, or perhaps the month after. Unfortunately, time and tide wait for no man and neither does legislation, because the Minister has to try to get his legislation through. Here is a clear case of where it would be helpful to have a clear view on government policy.
I am sure that the Minister will do his best on this amendment. I have no doubt that it is quite critical in the development of aviation policy. I therefore very much look forward to hearing what the Minister has to say.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I could paraphrase what I have just said by saying that we cannot do what the noble Lord wants because of EU regulations but the EU is working on it.
Lord Empey
I am grateful that I needed no wet towel for that answer. I thank the Minister for his response. It is a very convoluted issue with all these parallel processes taking place. However, at the end of the day, there is a problem that could exist in the future, although it does not exist right now, and we should not be in the position of being entirely at the mercy of a particular airline or of being involved in some kind of commercial tug of war that can isolate a region. This is deliberately not a Northern Ireland-only issue.
To sum up, I thank the Minister. I shall continue to work on this and I believe that there is an appetite to do something about it. I will take the advice of the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, and read Hansard, and I will keep open my option of returning to this matter on Report. However, in response to the Minister, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.
Civil Aviation Bill
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years ago)
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Lord Clinton-Davis
On the face of it, paragraph (b) is otiose. I have dealt with several cases in the sub-committee investigating legislation, of which I am a member. It is incumbent upon the Minister to say why this provision is included.
Lord Empey
Does the Minister feel that these two paragraphs could leave the CAA open to judicial review by disgruntled operators? They are adding something unclear with the definition of what is and is not needed. It may be intended to prevent overzealous application of restrictions on operators, but these days, one always has to look at the potential for judicial review, and I suspect that the way this is drafted might leave the CAA open. It might be possible to amend the first paragraph to meet the needs of the Government, but I hope the Minister will address the legal issue.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I must admit that I am puzzled by these amendments. I take it that they are merely probing amendments, but they are certainly not mundane. They seek to weaken the principles that the CAA and the Secretary of State must have regard to when discharging their economic regulation functions. Specifically, they seek to remove the need to have regard to the principle that regulatory activities should be targeted only at cases in which action is needed. To this extent, the amendment may inadvertently facilitate or encourage excessive regulation, and I am sure that the Committee will agree that that is clearly not desirable. I ask noble Lords to oppose these amendments today because they would remove provisions in the Bill that strengthen the adherence of the CAA and the Secretary of State to good economic regulation practice.
This first amendment seeks to delete one of the principles that the CAA must have regard to in performing its duties under subsections (1) and (2) of Clause 1, which sets out the CAA’s general duty. That principle is that,
“regulatory activities should be targeted only at cases in which action is needed”.
The second amendment makes the same provision for the Secretary of State’s duties.
The principles set out in Clause 1(4) and Clause 2(5) are those that the Better Regulation Task Force defined in 1997 as in keeping with good regulation. They were that good regulation should be transparent, accountable, proportionate, consistent, and targeted.
These principles are not in the Bill by accident. They are a well recognised starting point and one looks to encourage those responsible for economic regulation to apply them appropriately. Having provisions in legislation that reflect these principles is sensible and makes clear what is expected of regulators. It is not only desirable but good practice to have these provisions to encourage the CAA to discharge its Clause 1 functions in a manner that discourages unnecessary regulation.
It is known that economic regulation is an imperfect intervention. It should be used only where an unregulated market fails to deliver competitive outcomes. However, used appropriately, it can be an effective tool. The provisions in Clauses 1(4) and 2(5) ensure that this is the case in the Civil Aviation Bill. Furthermore, as an experienced regulator, the CAA is not troubled by having regard to the principles set out in Clause 1(4)(b). Indeed, it considers it sound regulatory practice, as do the Government.
Civil Aviation Bill
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, I will say a few words in the gap. I apologise to the Minister and to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, for my absence at the beginning of the debate. I was in a Select Committee of the House.
I will take the opportunity to pick up on a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Soley, who pointed out that our aviation sector is still number two in the world and a very important provider of high-quality jobs in the United Kingdom. I take this opportunity to congratulate Bombardier, which secured a massive order yesterday for more than 100 Challenger business aircraft. The fuselages, nacelles and other component parts are made in Belfast. It is excellent news that has done a lot to lift some of the economic gloom that there is around. It proves the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Soley, that this is one of our key sectors in which we are still a world leader and able to bring home orders. The sector deserves significant support.
Like many noble Lords, I support the broad thrust—
The Countess of Mar
I am sorry to interrupt the noble Lord. The rules are very strict. One should be present at the beginning of the debate when the Minister opens, and if one is not able to be there one should not speak. I am sorry to stop the noble Lord at this stage, but perhaps the Front Bench will agree with me.
Airports (Amendment) Bill [HL]
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years, 4 months ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, successive Governments have, for many years, implemented regional policies. These policies have been designed to prevent, or at least reduce, economic decline in those areas of the country that have seen their economic strength eroded as traditional industries contracted. These regional policies have been augmented by the European Union through the regional development fund. It is no surprise, therefore, that those of us who represent regions will, from time to time, look at government policy through the prism of regionalism to see whether our interests are being protected.
Early last year, I put down a Question for Short Debate which was eventually debated in Grand Committee on 15 November 2011. That debate covered the question of transport links between the regions and London. A number of noble Lords drew attention to the problems faced in different areas of the United Kingdom because of poor road or rail infrastructure. Aviation matters were also mentioned, as is pointed out in the briefing note prepared by the Library for this Bill today.
One of the principal requirements of a regional policy is to improve the competitiveness of a region. In order to do so, access is critical. This requires investment in infrastructure, which means having good communications by road, rail, air, sea and, in today’s world, broadband. The recently proposed acquisition of BMI airlines by BA has undoubtedly provoked interest in the matters we are about to debate. This has raised the wider question of the absence of any government powers to intervene in the trading of landing slots at Heathrow. This is a critical issue as far as I am concerned, as, unlike other European countries, the United Kingdom has only one hub airport. While I am not anticipating any immediate threat to important regional-to-Heathrow services, the fact remains that nobody can predict events. If a difficulty were to arise, the Government are powerless to act. I am entirely agnostic about the commercial take-over of BMI by the International Airlines Group, but I am concerned that the Government have no power to intervene.
As is the case in many policy areas, there is a significant European Union dimension to our deliberations. Aviation is a matter where we have ceded a competence to Brussels that is highly relevant to this Bill. Currently, EU Council Regulation EEC 95/93, as amended by Regulation EC 793/2004, provides a policy umbrella for the conduct of air connections between major hub airports and regions within member states. The preamble to the regulation states:
“Whereas it is necessary to make special provisions, under limited circumstances, for the maintenance of adequate domestic air services to regions of the Member State concerned”.
In practice, this means that if a national government believe that one of their regions is becoming isolated from another, they may apply to provide a public service obligation so that a subsidy can be paid to an airline to provide a connection between regions. This provision, however, does not allow for a PSO to be applied to a connection between two specific cities or between a region and a specific airport.
In the past few months, Brussels has been addressing a number of aviation issues. On 1 December 2011, the Commission produced an “airport package”, COM (2011) 827 final, which deals with a number of policy areas, landing and take-off slots being among them. On 19 December 2011, the European Parliament’s Committee on Transport and Tourism produced an own opinion draft report on the future of regional airports and air services in the EU, written by rapporteur Philip Bradbourn MEP. Paragraph 8 of that report states:
“considers it essential for regional airports to have access to hubs”.
That quotation from Mr Bradbourn’s draft report is the core rationale for this Bill.
On 29 February, I travelled to Brussels to have a series of meetings with members of the Transport and Tourism Committee of the European Parliament. I had a meeting with Philip Bradbourn, with other members of the committee, with our permanent representation in UKRep and, lastly, with the chairman of the committee, Brian Simpson MEP. During all my meetings there was great understanding of the UK’s specific issue and also considerable support for the proposals contained in this Bill.
What is our unique problem? Our specific problem in the UK is that we have only one major hub airport, Heathrow. Heathrow is operating at 98 to 99 per cent capacity. In other EU member states, where there is a connectivity problem with a hub airport, most of our continental partners have the opportunity to use spare capacity to add take-off and landing slots to accommodate connectivity between regions and hub airports but because of the lack of capacity at Heathrow that option is not open to the United Kingdom.
Furthermore, the slots at Heathrow are owned by individual airlines and if airlines should decide to sell their slots or use them for more profitable international routes, that, at present, is entirely a matter for them. The implications for UK regions of this could be profound. Our regions depend heavily on connectivity as a selling point and an incentive for inward investment and tourism, and adequate access to the national hub airport is essential. What a particular airline may say about its intentions is utterly irrelevant to this legislation, but even if an airline said it will keep a particular route open, it has the opportunity to reduce cycles and still maintain that it has kept its word.
As the landing and take-off slots in the UK are in private hands, any attempt to interfere in their free sale or transfer will lead to an interest being taken by the competition authorities in Brussels. To work effectively and to protect the regions’ access to Heathrow, the Bill gives the Secretary of State power to direct airport operators as well as requiring the Civil Aviation Authority to take these connectivity issues into account when exercising its functions. This may be deemed a power to ring-fence slots at Heathrow and that would have a knock on effect on their value. However, given the fact that Heathrow is operating at full capacity, there is simply no other way in the UK of guaranteeing adequate access from the regions to the hub.
I believe that our European partners will see the logic of this argument. It is, after all, consistent with the thrust of EU policy for many years to protect and promote the regions. As a former member of the EU Committee of the Regions, I know this to be a fact. Currently, the EU Committee on Transport and Tourism member Mr Giommaria Uggias of Italy is drafting a legislative report specifically on the slots issue and it is likely to be brought forward later this year.
This Bill is not region specific; it is a Bill that applies to the whole of the United Kingdom. Although I may come from Northern Ireland where the effects of inadequate air links to Heathrow would be felt most acutely, I am very aware that other regions could be badly affected as well. I have corresponded and spoken with a number of interested groups in Northern Ireland. I know that the Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive with responsibility for airports, Mr Danny Kennedy MLA, is supportive of ensuring adequate access. I believe that the relevant Assembly committee in Belfast takes a similar view. The Consumer Council for Northern Ireland approached me to offer support, and I have received letters from the local tourist board, the IoD, the CBI, Belfast City Airport and others.
Certainly a number of Scottish destinations, including Edinburgh, Glasgow, Aberdeen and Inverness, come to mind as well as cities in the north of England, such as Newcastle, Leeds and Manchester. Birmingham will eventually have the advantage of fast rail, and I know that plans are afoot to improve rail services to Cardiff. However, this still leaves the south-west somewhat isolated. In last week's edition of the Western Morning News, it said:
“Communications are the key to growth in the West Country”.
Some air links have been established with London City Airport, and Exeter is now a key gateway for the area connecting the West Country with Manchester. But the point remains that communications are the key to growth in the regions, and leaving the Government as a spectator, unable to intervene in the future if things go wrong with landing slots at Heathrow, is, I submit, unacceptable.
In conclusion, this Bill aims to amend the Airports Act 1986 to confer upon the Secretary of State the power to direct airport operators in the interests of ensuring sufficient national air infrastructure between hub and regional airports, and further, will ensure that the Civil Aviation Authority would also have to take into account the need to ensure adequate services between hub and regional airports when exercising its functions. I believe that these proposals are entirely consistent with current and previous government policies and are consistent with the intentions of the European Union’s policy, albeit that such policy would have to be modified to avoid a legal conflict with Brussels. The timing of this Bill sits neatly with the likely introduction of a UK aviation Bill later this year and, as previously stated, the European Commission already has proposals on the table for consultation.
The Minister, who I must thank for his assistance and that of his officials over recent weeks, knows that I fully realise that we have to act in concert with our European partners. He also acknowledges that currently HMG have no powers to address the specific problem of adequate access to Heathrow from the regions. Given these facts, and the proximity of our own domestic legislation coming through shortly, there is, I believe, a unique opportunity to deal with this issue in the immediate future. I trust that the Minister will give these proposals a fair hearing and a fair wind. I beg to move.
Lord Empey
My Lords, I can see the noble Lord, Lord Howell, in his place, hoping that I am going to go through a very detailed response to every speaker who has contributed this morning. I thank all who have contributed, because the debate has raised the fact that aviation issues in general are of great concern to many Members of the House. I hope that Members will forgive me for not dealing specifically with every contribution, but I want to raise a few points.
The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, as a former Aviation Minister, made a number of points about the commercial issues. Of course regional policy, which all Governments have followed since the 1950s, is by definition to some extent interfering with the market. If we did not interfere with the market to some extent, areas of this country would be laid waste. That is the practical reality. Why do we have the European regional development fund? Why do we have regional growth funds? All these things deliberately address a market failure. Aviation is no different. Although it would be nice to say, “Let us leave things and the market will fix it”, I assure noble Lords that the market will not fix it. At present, if you look at Heathrow, you see small regional aircraft parked that have a capacity of, may be, 34 passengers. They occupy one slot, whereas you have an A380 that may take 500 or 600 passengers for the same slot. Common sense dictates that it will not be long before someone in an airline somewhere works out that it is cheaper per head to land 600 people than 34 people.
The big issue economically, for me, is not specifically a Northern Ireland issue. I have tried to go out of my way not to make it a Northern Ireland issue. The issue is that at present, our Government, as they have conceded, have no power to intervene should the market decide to push the slots somewhere else; I got a very strong clue when the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie of Luton, got to his feet. Of course we welcome and enjoy the links with Luton, Stansted and so on, but we are talking about the narrower issue; my colleague, my noble friend Lord Rogan, made it very clear as a businessman himself that, if you do not have the international connections, businesspeople are not going to travel for hours between airports at great inconvenience to themselves to get to a region. It is a disincentive which goes against the grain of all the millions of pounds we pour into regional policy in this country year after year.
Given the time, I will perhaps not address the wider issues that the noble Lord, Lord Soley, and a number of other noble Lords addressed, although I have to say that we must have an answer to those questions. I come to the point about the European dimension to this. We have a unique opportunity because, by sheer coincidence, the European Union is addressing these matters in parallel with us. I fully understand what the Minister said. I have been out there. I believe we have the opportunity to make a strong case to the European Union. I believe we will have support out there—I know we have, certainly in the Parliament of the European Union. Although the Parliament is not the final decider in this case, I assure noble Lords that the growing influence of the Parliament over the Commission and in codecision-making in a number of areas will give us an opportunity in the coming months, as the year progresses, to negotiate with the European Union so that, ultimately, something like the Bill will be compatible with our European obligations. I understand the Minister’s position at present, and I do not seek to put us in conflict with our European partners. To coin a phrase that is a bit colloquial, I do not intend to go away on this issue, you know. The fact is that we have local interests to protect at home, but this is a UK issue.
I have to tell your Lordships about the destinations that are available. You can fly from Amsterdam to Belfast and, as the noble Lord, Lord Soley, made clear, to far more cities than you can from Heathrow. The commercial value of those slots is, I think, between £20 million and £30 million each. Common sense dictates that, unless Heathrow has extra capacity, ultimately the only way to protect access to it from the regions will be through some form of intervention. We do not have the power to do that at the moment and we would be in conflict with Europe if we did, but I think that there may be an opportunity to do so, particularly this year, as reports are being drafted in Brussels right now. I believe that we have the ear of the Parliament and many of the people associated with it, because they are working through the same process themselves.
I strongly believe that we are doing the right thing at the right time. It may not be perfect—I fully understand that it needs a lot more work—but, if we pull together and work with our European partners, I believe very strongly that we will be able to bring forward a series of proposals that will provide a guarantee for the future. Let us not get too hung up about the commercial deals before us today. It is the long term that we are trying to protect, and this will give us an opportunity to protect regional connectivity for the long term. All regional policy will fail if we do not have adequate connections.
Aviation: UK Civil Aviation
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Lord Empey
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Gibson, on securing this debate this evening. It is very timely.
First, I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Monks, about pilot fatigue. I have a son who is in that sector and his schedule over the past month frightened me. I have been in contact with the department on this issue for some months and I hope that when the EASA is considering this, it will not only follow much more closely the CAA guidelines but take into account the representations of the people who actually do this job, not the people who simply treat it as theory.
With regard to what the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, said, I would say to her that it will be the Thames estuary or Heathrow. We are not going to get both because airlines are not going to split their bases, their engineering, their back-up and so on. I suspect that they will be either at one or the other.
Following on from my introducing the Airports (Amendment) Bill to this House in December 2011, I want to draw the attention of your Lordships to the connectivity issues that exist in the United Kingdom, and to ensure efficient communications between our major regions and cities. We debated this issue in Grand Committee on 15 November, and I believe that there is a lot of support in this House to draw attention to the fact that, if you do not have adequate connectivity, it is not going to be possible significantly to build up your business efficiency and attract investment to the regions.
It is no use saying, “We can fly you to an airport in the basic region of the south-east or in London”, which under European directions you can give a public service obligation to do. It has to be between the major cities in the region and the hub airport, wherever that may be. The issue for me at the moment is that my Bill would give the Government a power which they currently do not have: to ensure that the CAA can pass judgment. I hope to go to Brussels next month to see the chairman of the transport committee of the European Parliament and to lobby there, because there is a significant European dimension to this.
Like the noble Lord, Lord Soley, I had a hub airport in what was my constituency and I have had issues with it over its opening hours and various other things, but we all use it. The fact is that the issue is not only the airport itself; it is how that airport is connected to the major centres of population. Unless you can get from the regions to the major hub airport, which for the foreseeable future is Heathrow, then we are doing a disservice to our country. We put large amounts of money, as does the European Union, into regional development. One of the key issues there is aviation connectivity. In Northern Ireland, for instance, we do not have a realistic alternative. We do not have rail connections. Yes, we have a ferry, but, realistically, that is not going to do the job.
As we move forward, I hope that the Minister will give us some guidance as to whether the Government will seriously consider the regional connectivity issue in the forthcoming consultation and the legislation that will be before both Houses later this year.
Transport: London and the Regions
Lord Empey Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Lord Empey
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have for improving transport links between London and the regions.
Lord Empey
My Lords, by coincidence a Question was asked in the Chamber earlier today which brought the issue of links between the regions and London very much to the fore. Perhaps I will take the opportunity to refer to that later. It is the case that for decades Governments have had regional development policies in place. Since the Second World War I believe that successive Governments have made it part of their policy to carry out works and to spend money on the development of the regions and their economies in order to bring prosperity to the entire country. One of the ways this was done—Europe did the same thing—was by putting into place meaningful infrastructure so that it was possible to get to and from particular regions. This is how our country has developed since the Industrial Revolution. We can go back to the canals and all sorts of developments; they were all about creating access to all sorts of centres of population from centres of production. The United Kingdom developed in this way over many decades.
We know that there are many proposals on the board for developing rail, the most obvious of which is the proposal to put in a high-speed rail link between Birmingham and London. There are other proposals for road development and for the east and west coast railways to be upgraded. All these things are part of the general infrastructure of our country. Indeed, the European Union through its regional development funds has provided significant amounts of money to improve infrastructure throughout the United Kingdom.
The debate I want to have now is on whether we are going to continue to ensure that the investment that successive Governments have made in trying to improve the economies of the regions is going to be sustained in these difficult times. It was clear from the Question this afternoon—and I found this from my experience in government as well—that when a business makes a decision about whether to expand, or an inward investor decides whether to come into a particular area, a key issue and one of the first things that they look for, after whether the relevant labour is there, is the infrastructure. Can they get goods, services and people in and out of a region quickly and effectively so that they can get worldwide access for their goods and services? Can they get executives, and of course the population in general, in and out? Now that we travel much more, one of the key considerations is whether, if you are in one of the regions, you have access to the major hubs, particularly air hubs. That way you can go on holiday or conduct your business as efficiently and effectively as possible.
There has been an enormous debate, particularly in the London area, over airports. We have things like Boris island being talked about and the proposal from Norman Foster for the Isle of Grain. There have been decisions from the Government and the Opposition not to proceed with the third runway at Heathrow. Therefore, air travel and traffic in general is the subject of extremely significant debate in this country at the present time. When the noble Earl replied earlier in the Chamber, he made the point, which I fully understand, that if you are looking at air route access from the regions for instance, there is potential for a public service obligation to get people from a region to the London area. However, from the evidence of the comments made around the Chamber this afternoon, we all know that that is not quite the issue.
The issue is very specific. Heathrow is the principal air hub in the United Kingdom and if you do not have meaningful access to Heathrow, you do not have meaningful access to other routes in and out of the UK. It is as simple as that. If you are going to market remote regions as places where people can do business, one of the first things they will look for is whether they can get to that place reasonably quickly, efficiently and cost-effectively. If you do not have access to your principal airport, that is likely to be a negative factor when an investment decision is being made.
My anxiety is this: as we know, in recent days British Midland International has come on the market and Lufthansa wants to sell it. There has been a bid from BA and we know that Virgin Atlantic is also interested. This has significance, not only for Northern Ireland, but for all our regions. I believe that earlier this year BMI removed its Glasgow service. I have no doubt that air routes, particularly for the Scottish Islands, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Newcastle, Manchester and Cardiff, are all vital. Therefore, how can we ensure that our regions will retain appropriate access to our principal airport at Heathrow, as long as it remains the principal hub?
It is not clear to me—and I would ask the Minister to respond to this at the end of this debate—how the Government can ensure that this access exists. I am afraid that it is not enough to leave it purely to commercial decisions, because everybody knows that landing slots at Heathrow and at other key airports are worth enormous sums of money. We are talking about hundreds of millions of pounds. It is also the case that airlines tend to make much more profit out of long-haul flights than from regional flights. It does not take a lot of imagination to see this. Indeed, the chief executive of the IAG group, Willie Walsh, has already indicated publicly that he would be looking at some of these slots for international use. Of course, Virgin Atlantic is an international carrier and not a domestic carrier. It therefore seems highly unlikely that, if it should become the owner of BMI, it would suddenly wish to take on and start producing a domestic service, when even its very name indicates that it is an international carrier.
It would seem that there is a genuine, clear and present threat to access of the key slots at Heathrow for the regions in general, and not simply for Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland’s case is more acute because we cannot get into our cars and drive directly to the south-east, nor can we get on a train to the south-east. We have either a ferry and a very long drive, or air access. To all intents and purposes, for meaningful business to be done, you need air access.
As was made clear in the House earlier, in many cases flights are exceptionally expensive if you want to get to the key hubs. I would say to the noble Earl that access to some of the peripheral airports in the London area might be fine for leisure customers and so on, but it is not suitable in all cases for the business customer. Anyone with anything to do with economic development will learn that access has to be as quick and as accessible as possible. It is therefore my intention to draw your Lordships’ attention to the critical importance of access as we move forward, and I would ask the noble Earl to address that in his response. I intend to take this matter further, if necessary through the route of a Private Member’s Bill, if the law is insufficient to allow the Secretary of State for Transport to have adequate direction powers over this matter. I feel strongly that we cannot sit back and simply wait until a crisis arises. We have to anticipate it and prevent it.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I understand what the noble Lord is saying, but BMI has not been sold, and no services have been stopped yet. I think he is going ahead of himself slightly.
The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, asked about the Greater Anglia (Short) franchise and customer satisfaction. Although this is a relatively short franchise, she will recognise that Abellio has offered commitments that will improve customer experience. She also asked several other very detailed questions, and I fear that I will have to write to her on those points.
Abellio plans to continue to run all those services that are crowded today or are likely to become crowded in the next five years in the formation planned by NXEA. In almost all cases where crowding occurs today, the trains concerned are being operated at the maximum formation allowed by the infrastructure, so it is an infrastructure limitation, not a rolling stock limitation.
Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Empey, touched on the Thames estuary airport. We welcome the input from the mayor and Lord Foster, and their suggestions will be considered alongside the many other contributions about our future aviation policy. However, such a project would be hugely complex. Detailed consideration would be needed on a range of issues, including airspace capacity, safety and access to the airport as well as costs and funding.
Lord Empey
I know that my colleague in Northern Ireland, the Transport Minister Danny Kennedy, has been to the European Parliament and spoken to the chair of its transport committee, who in turn has spoken to Lufthansa about the slot issue. This is a pertinent issue. I understand the legal difficulties the Minister is in, but perhaps it is something that with co-operation between Brussels and ourselves we have in our own hands to resolve.
Earl Attlee
I am sure that noble Lords will keep a very close eye on this issue.
The noble Lord, Lord Empey, suggested that he would return to this matter on a future occasion, and I look forward to all such debates. In conclusion, I thank him for this short debate and for all his efforts in encouraging improved transport links between London, the regions and Northern Ireland.