UK Terrorism Threat Level

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 10th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

My Lords, our definition of extremism, as I know my noble friend knows, is

“vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs.”

I think my noble friend was asking whether there are any specific forms of extremism that are not covered. We have a government definition but not a legal definition of extremism, as she knows. However, in broad-brush terms, it covers a working definition of extremism.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

I join noble Lords in expressing sympathy for the victims of the recent terrorist atrocities and pay tribute to the resilience, bravery and courage of our security forces, intelligence services and those involved in counterterrorism.

The Intelligence and Security Committee’s recent report on Northern Ireland-related terrorism said that the threat from that quarter

“remains resilient, despite significant … pressure from MI5”

and the PSNI. Of course, the alert level for Northern Ireland-related terrorism in Northern Ireland remains at “severe”. One of the key challenges identified by that report was poor criminal justice outcomes. Will the Minister work with the devolved Government in Northern Ireland to ensure that the criminal justice system is fit for purpose and sends the right deterrent? Can she confirm that every possible resource will be made available as necessary to combat threats both from abroad and domestically?

[Baroness Williams of Trafford (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for that question. He will agree that we have consistently provided the PSNI with additional resources to tackle the terrorism threat. In addition to funding for the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland, the UK Government have invested significantly in the PSNI, with more than £160 million invested in the 2015 Parliament.

European Union (Withdrawal) Act

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2018 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Sajid Javid)]

It is a great pleasure for me to open this debate. I cannot think of a better way to celebrate my 49th birthday.

The coming weeks will be one of the most defining political periods not just of this Parliament or of our time as MPs, but since the second world war. I know that all hon. and right hon. Members will have the national interest at the very forefront of their minds. Next Tuesday, we will be asked whether we will support the Brexit deal of my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister. Each one of us will have to make that decision. It is my belief that the deal on the table is the best option available in ensuring a smooth exit from the European Union. It will ensure that we leave the EU, as planned, on 29 March next year, that we take back control of our borders, that we end the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice in the UK and that we stop sending vast sums of money to Brussels. The deal will have a significant impact on two major areas of Home Office policy—security and immigration.

[Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

rose—

[Sajid Javid]

I will very happily take an intervention from the right hon. Gentleman.

[Nigel Dodds]

I am very grateful to the Home Secretary. He has just mentioned taking back control and ending the jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice. I presume that he has seen the legal advice, published today, from the Attorney General, which makes it clear that, in fact, that is not the case in terms of the backstop, which he also says is indefinite. The advice says:

“NI remains in the EU’s Customs Union”—

not in some kind of customs arrangement—

“and will apply the whole of the EU’s customs acquis, and the Commission and CJEU will continue to have jurisdiction over its compliance with those rules”.

Northern Ireland will treat Great Britain as a third country. How can he possibly stand here and recommend this deal and say that it brings to an end the jurisdiction of the Court of Justice and takes back control?

[Sajid Javid]

I very much respect what the right hon. Gentleman has just said. He has shared it with the House on a few occasions, and I absolutely understand what he says. Let me just say from the outset: no one can pretend that this deal is perfect in every sense. Inevitably, there will be some compromises with this deal and with a number of objectives, including, as we have just heard from the Prime Minister in Prime Minister’s questions, a need to ensure that the commitments in the Good Friday agreement are upheld. What he is referring to is if—and it is an if—the backstop arrangement kicks in. He is right to point to the legal advice, but it is worth keeping in mind the fact that that situation does not necessarily arise, even if there is no final deal on the future arrangement by December 2020, because there is an opportunity for alternative arrangements, including extending the implementation period. Even if the backstop arrangement kicked in, he referred to, it is, at a minimum—legally from the European Union’s perspective—not sustainable because it is done under article 50 of the European Union’s own rules.

Counter-Terrorism and Border Security Bill

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons
Monday 11th June 2018 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

Yes, I can confirm that. The powers in the Bill are designed to better protect us against all types of terrorist threats, including those from overseas, and against hostile state activity.

The other provisions in the Bill are about ensuring that we can respond more effectively to the changing terrorist threat. Part of that is arresting, prosecuting and convicting terrorists and imprisoning them for longer, as well as more rigorous management of those terrorists following their release from custody to prevent reoffending. The Bill will enable us to do all those things, in part by closing gaps in a number of existing terrorism offences.

[Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Before the Home Secretary moves on, I just want to take him back to the issue of hostile states and checks on UK borders, including the border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic. Can he confirm what discussions he has had with the Police Service of Northern Ireland? We talk about no border and it being as frictionless as possible, but some checks do need to be carried out for national security and safety.

[Sajid Javid]

I have not had a discussion directly with the PSNI on this, but the Department has had discussions with our Northern Ireland counterparts, and I believe there have been discussions with the PSNI, to ensure that the measures we are taking, on the borders in particular, take into account the needs of Northern Ireland.

In particular, the Bill will help to stop terrorists exploiting the internet. We know that terrorists are using the internet and social media to spew out vile propaganda and to call on others to follow their murderous lead. We know that online platforms are being used to spread hate and to try to recruit more people to join the ranks, and we know that people are being rapidly radicalised via the web. That is why the Bill includes measures to combat what is happening online as well as offline. For instance, the Bill will make it a criminal offence to display a terrorist flag online, in the same way that it is already a criminal offence to march down the high street waving one to show support for a terrorist organisation.

Provisions in the Bill will also make it easier to tackle those who stream or repeatedly view extremist material online. At the moment, if someone downloads a bomb-making video from the internet, they are committing a criminal offence. However, if they watch the same video by streaming it, they could escape prosecution. That is not right. The Bill criminalises the repeated viewing or streaming of terrorist material online, which will close the loophole that allows some people to watch gruesome propaganda without any fear of prosecution. The Bill will mean that people who repeatedly view terrorist content online could face up to 15 years behind bars.

Football Fan Violence: Euro 2016

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 14th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

I can give my hon. Friend that assurance. When people are identified, consideration will be given to taking action through banning orders. It is possible to give banning orders for violence that has occurred outside the UK.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The appalling violence must be condemned, whoever perpetrates it and wherever it comes from. I am sure that the Home Secretary will agree that fans from England, Wales, Northern Ireland and indeed the Irish Republic who have behaved in an exemplary way deserve praise, and that they are the vast bulk of fans. Our thoughts are with the family of a fan from Northern Ireland, Darren Rodgers, who was killed in an accident in Nice, and I am sure that the good wishes of the whole House go to his family at this sad time. Will the Home Secretary impress on the French authorities and UEFA the lessons that they need to learn about the events of last week?

Resettlement of Vulnerable Syrian Refugees

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Commons Chamber

[James Brokenshire]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend for highlighting the incredible work of so many charities and non-governmental organisations. I pay tribute to the work of the organisation in her constituency. We should remember the incredible risks that so many people take to provide such help and assistance. It is important to underline that, as well as to recognise their supportive work with DFID and other partners.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

We know that the Minister has the scheme that he has outlined—it is the subject of this urgent question—and that Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey are doing an enormous amount to help in the refugee crisis, but what more can the Government do to put pressure on other Governments in the region, such as the Gulf states, to open their doors to more refugees from Syria?

[James Brokenshire]

I understand from the Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth East (Mr Ellwood), that that matter is being raised at international bodies and in international discussions. The right hon. Gentleman is right to emphasise the work done by countries such as Jordan and others. We are providing more than £300 million in aid assistance outside Syria to some of the countries on which the displacement of people is most directly having an impact.

Domestic Violence

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 29th October 2014 Westminster Hall

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) on securing the debate. There is no doubt that those of us in the Chamber are well aware of the issue in our constituencies and the importance of highlighting it.

Domestic violence affects men and women, but people are sometimes under the impression that only women are subjected to it. That is not always so, and my hon. Friend made it clear that men may suffer, as do children. Hon. Members probably have varying statistics on domestic violence, but the fact is that a colossal number of people are directly involved. People are not aware of the frequency of domestic violence and who is affected. Many perceptions of domestic violence are simply not true, such as that men are never the ones abused, that the behaviour is due to the abuser’s problematic childhood, that someone can always leave their abuser, and—this is the one that really winds me up—that the abuse happens because it is deserved. No one ever deserves abuse and no one should be subject to it.

Domestic violence may be described as any incident of threatening behaviour, violence or abuse, whether psychological, physical, sexual, financial or emotional, between adults who have been intimate partners or family members. A relationship that was based on love may change completely, with violence becoming a key part of it. Figures show that one in four women and one in six men will experience domestic abuse. On average, a woman will experience violence 35 times before her first call to the police, which indicates that many women are long suffering, with a long time passing before they decide that they must take action. It might be helpful if they did so earlier, but they first must acknowledge that they need help.

Two women in England and Wales die each week because of domestic abuse, which is too many. Domestic abuse is never justifiable but it is on the rise. In Northern Ireland, between 1 April 2013 and 31 March 2014, there were 27,628 domestic abuse incidents, which represented a 1.6% increase on the previous year. The situation is not regional, as the problem covers the whole United Kingdom: Scotland, Wales, England and Northern Ireland.

The British crime survey showed that, in 2003, there were around 12.9 million incidents of domestic violence against women and 2.5 million incidents against men. Since then, the figures have increased. Most people are aware to some degree of what domestic violence is, and most agree that it is completely wrong, yet the number of incidents continues to rise. Is there a problem of acceptability within society? If so, we must address that.

Domestic abuse is often not reported, yet a call is made to the police specifically about domestic abuse every minute. It is estimated that they receive more than 1,300 calls every day, and more than 570,000 every year, yet according to the British crime survey, which is specific to England, less than 40% of domestic violence crime is reported to the police. It is difficult to know why that is the case, but several factors play a part. Many sufferers love their partner or spouse and, despite the abuse, simply do not want to leave. Others have children and do not want to split the family up. Unfortunately, some have convinced themselves that they are simply getting what they deserve, but we should be quite clear that they are not. Some feel threatened and are afraid to contact the police, or to leave, because they have been told, “I will find you,” or “I will come after you.” There are many cases throughout the United Kingdom in which such threats have, unfortunately, become a reality, with the result of violence against a partner—more often the woman. There is no safety for any person; in cases of domestic abuse, threats are very real and can be vital in ensuring that the man or woman remains at home and stays quiet.

Some—often women—feel a sense of shame. Many know their abusers, and some may even be married to them, so they do not see what is happening as abuse, as my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann said. We need to change that aspect of the British mindset. I am British, as are you, Dr McCrea, and the other Members in the room—and we are proud to be so—but people sometimes have a British mindset when responding to things, so we need to address that.

There is also an idea that abuse is real only if it comes from a stranger. Men and women who are being abused by their partners often feel a sense of shame and are embarrassed to tell people that their husband or wife is abusing them. That is something that grieves me greatly, and it is particularly true of women who are raped by their husbands.

The crime survey research found that women are most commonly sexually assaulted by men they know. When the researchers asked women about the last incident of rape they had experienced since the age of 16, they found that 45% of respondents were raped by current husbands or partners, and 9% by former partners, while 29% of perpetrators were otherwise known to the victim. Only 17% of women were raped by strangers. Let us be clear: sexual abuse in some relationships is distinct, violent, real and brutal, and we need to address that.

The figures also show that 30% of domestic abuse starts or intensifies during pregnancy. It is hard to imagine that someone would violently abuse or beat up a lady who is pregnant, sometimes to try to abort the baby, but that is the extent of the violence to which some ladies are subjected.

The hon. Member for Inverclyde (Mr McKenzie) referred specifically to children. For 90% of domestic violence incidents in family households, children were in the same room or the next room, and in more than 50% of known domestic violence cases, they were also directly abused, either because they heard what took place, or because they were physically assaulted. In Northern Ireland, the PSNI domestic abuse crime statistics show that from 1 April 2013 to 31 March 2014, 11,000 children were living in homes in which domestic abuse was a daily reality. If a child experiences direct violence against their mother in their home, that will have a detrimental effect on them as they grow up. We cannot ignore that, and we must be aware of how it will shape the children of today and the adults of tomorrow.

In Northern Ireland, the Rowan sexual assault referral centre was established last year to meet the needs of those who have suffered sexual assaults by providing physical, emotional and psychological care. During its first 11 months of operation, from May 2013 to March 2014, the Rowan received 442 referrals. Of those, 182, or 41%, were children; 86% were female and 14% were male. The centre has been able to help in some way, but there is a greater need across the whole of Northern Ireland, as there is across the United Kingdom. Undoubtedly, as the figures show, domestic violence is very much a reality for men, women and children throughout the UK, and we must ensure that it stops.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I, too, congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson) on his sterling work in bringing the matter to the attention of the House and his work on human trafficking back home in Northern Ireland. He is to be commended on his tremendous work in those areas.

On the effects on children, is not one problem that, while a couple may be affected by domestic abuse—the victim is often the female—the damaging psychological effects on children, even if they are not directly assaulted or abused, but indirectly affected by what they hear or witness, will last for years or even a lifetime? However, children brought up in such an environment are not given a great deal of support, often because people are not aware of their background as they move on through education. More really needs to be done to help those children.

[Jim Shannon]

My right hon. Friend is right that we need to focus on the children of these broken relationships to help and mould them so that they are not seriously psychologically affected by what they see and experience in their homes over the years. We need better provision to do that, and I look forward to the Minister’s response, because I am keen to hear what the Government are doing collectively and what interaction there has been with other regions.

I want to mention some of the things that we have done in Northern Ireland. We have already had two strategies to defeat domestic violence—one in 2005 and one in 2008—and we are working on a new strategy for 2015. That is fantastic news, because we have made great progress as a result of those strategies, even though we have witnessed a 1.6% increase in domestic violence. It will take time for the strategies to filter through and for people to take on board the issues my right hon. Friend mentioned.

We cannot congratulate ourselves yet, because the figures for domestic abuse are still rising. We need to ensure that we change people’s mindsets towards domestic violence, and ensure that men, women and children have someone to speak to and are not afraid to contact the police. We also need to work on setting up a refuge facility—this is an issue we cannot ignore—for men who have been abused. Unfortunately, there is nothing for them at the moment. Just because they are fewer in number, that does not mean they should be ignored. Furthermore, evidence shows that the number of men subject to domestic abuse is much higher than we think. However, as a result of their pride and embarrassment, it often remains unknown.

We must do all that we can to guarantee the safety of men, women and children. When their safety, well-being and security are in jeopardy, we must make sure they have a safe place to turn to, where they need not feel shame, embarrassment or fear.

National Crime Agency

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Campbell]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for that question. I agree that the Government have a responsibility because, while the delay and failure to fully implement the NCA continues, our young people—not just in Northern Ireland; I will come in a moment to how far this penetrates—are suffering as a result of criminal operations.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Further to the point raised by the Opposition spokesman, the right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson), does my hon. Friend share my frustration that when the Government here are asked to comment on these issues, their view often seems to be, “Oh, the parties in Northern Ireland can’t get this matter sorted out”? The Library briefing paper notes that the Secretary of State has referred on a number of occasions to problems within the Northern Ireland Executive if they cannot agree. We should put the truth out there: the fact of the matter is that the vast majority of parties want to make progress, except for the two nationalist parties.

[Mr Campbell]

I thank my right hon. Friend for that intervention. Virtually every party in Northern Ireland, with the exception of the SDLP and Sinn Fein, is in favour of the full implementation of the NCA.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I am very pleased to follow the right hon. Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan), and I appreciate his plain speaking on this and, indeed, other issues. I have no doubt that we shall hear more plain speaking from the Back Benches.

This is an important debate about an issue that our party raised in the Northern Ireland Assembly just a couple of weeks ago. Like our debate, it has focused on the prevalence of organised crime gangs—particularly in border areas, but throughout Northern Ireland—and has stressed the need for it to be dealt with. That need arose a long time ago. The right hon. Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) called for the setting of a deadline. I should be interested to hear, perhaps during the Opposition wind-up, what he thinks should happen if that deadline is not met.

The right hon. Gentleman seemed to be suggesting that the Government should deal with the issue themselves, because the NCA is a national agency. He rightly pointed out that this is not just a matter for Northern Ireland, but a matter that affects constituents and citizens throughout the United Kingdom. We cannot afford a situation in which Northern Ireland is the one part of the United Kingdom that is seen as a safe haven or bolthole for criminals and their illegal criminal assets and activities. It is an outrage, in the 21st century, that that should even be considered.

Given what the Chief Constable has said, given the overwhelming weight of opinion among ordinary people on all sides of the community in Northern Ireland and in all the Northern Ireland political parties apart from Sinn Fein and the SDLP, and given the views that have been expressed in the House, it is time to act. I am all in favour of appeals to common sense and appeals for people to sit down together and go through the arguments, but that has been going on for a long time, and there comes a point at which, in the absence of agreement, action must be taken. As we have heard again today, it has been reported that the SDLP has been engaging in talks with the aim of making the NCA more accountable. I should be interested to hear what issue is still outstanding, because it seems to me that all the issues have been addressed, and more than addressed. As we have heard, the current proposals go far beyond anything else that exists in the United Kingdom.

Even if the SDLP signs up to the proposals, I understand that Sinn Fein is not engaging in the discussions. The Minister of Justice made it clear in the Assembly that it had not even responded to invitations to speak about the matter. When Sinn Fein was challenged in the Assembly a couple of weeks ago on what should be done about criminal assets—and the figures are startling: some £12 million, £13 million or £14 million of criminal assets apparently cannot be seized because the NCA is not operating in Northern Ireland—its answer was that we should set up a bespoke system to deal with them. Another of its suggestions is that, at a time when we are facing massive budgetary deficits and welfare penalties are being imposed, more money should be spent. It has not said where the money will come from. It is an impossible demand, unfunded—we have no idea where the money will come from—but rather than actually introduce the NCA, it wants the Northern Ireland Assembly to have these bespoke arrangements. In terms of making arrangements to fill the gaps if the NCA does not operate in Northern Ireland soon, Minister Ford was asked about the cost implications of doing it ourselves and he replied:

“I think the technical term is ‘quite horrific.’”

What the costs to Northern Ireland would be if we had to go down this road are unimaginable, and the Sinn Fein attitude is reckless, irresponsible, bizarre and totally obnoxious. Its attitude is, “We’re not going to do it, we’re not going to speak about it, and we just do it ourselves whatever the costs may be, and we do not know where the money is coming from.”

[Bob Stewart]

This is the National Crime Agency, and I know policing has been devolved to the Northern Ireland Assembly, but if we do not get resolution on this, which is in the interests of everyone, surely we ought to start thinking of imposing it in these circumstances, for the good of everyone in Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom?

[Mr Dodds]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, which I was coming on to. Whatever happens in the interminable discussions between the SDLP and the Government, I have to repeat to the SDLP the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for East Antrim (Sammy Wilson). By putting the preference, and the emphasis, on implementing Patten and all of that rather than protecting children from online abuse, the NCA, with every day that passes, is unable to bring its expertise, help and assistance to bear. The UN has already criticised Northern Ireland in that regard. We have criminal assets being smuggled and used in a terrible way, benefiting paramilitary and other gangs, and every day we have this wittering on—dancing on the head of a pin—from the SDLP about accountability issues, which have already been addressed, yet people are suffering.

Even if the SDLP overcomes its objections—whatever they may be, and it is a matter for it to explain to the people how it can justify all of this—we will still be left with the problem that without Sinn Fein’s agreement, we cannot make this work in Northern Ireland. Sinn Fein shows no signs whatsoever of being prepared to sign up—maybe for some of the reasons mentioned by some Members already about the gains it gets from some of this. Because this is a national matter that affects not just Northern Ireland but the entirety of the United Kingdom—it is about our ability to combat criminal gangsterism across the entire United Kingdom—there comes a point at which the Government at Westminster have to face up to the issue. For the sake of the children and for the sake of the citizens who are being victimised and denied the protection and defence other people throughout the United Kingdom are being given, there comes a point when we cannot simply keep appealing to the better nature—if there is one—of Sinn Fein to recognise reality, and instead we must take action.

I simply want to make that point very strongly and leave it with the Government. I look forward to hearing their response and to getting a very definite answer on that issue.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr McCrea]

I have to say to the hon. Lady that I am still trying to work that out. I listened very carefully to the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie), but there is no genuine reason whatsoever that she can give her constituents—she certainly did not give one today—for why she and her party are standing in the way of introducing the NCA in Northern Ireland.

[Mr Dodds]

On that point, was my hon. Friend as disturbed as I was that one of the arguments that the hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) seemed to advance was that the NCA, in her view, had not performed as well as it should have and needed to step up to the plate? In fact, one of the reasons it cannot do what it wants to do is that the SDLP will not allow it to operate. It was a bizarre argument and, along with the other stuff about accountability, lays bare the total vacuity of the arguments advanced by the SDLP.

[Dr McCrea]

I agree with my right hon. Friend. In fact, it lays bare the bankruptcy of the SDLP’s argument on the matter. There certainly has to be some other reason—a hidden reason—why it is unwilling to take forward the NCA in Northern Ireland.

Northern Ireland’s Justice Minister has highlighted that the NCA’s limited powers in Northern Ireland place an extra burden on the PSNI. While the other constituent parts of the United Kingdom—England, Scotland and Wales—have the expertise of the NCA, as a result of the Belfast agreement the people of Northern Ireland are held to ransom, because concessions to nationalists meant that policing was subject to a far higher degree of community oversight and monitoring than in any other part of the United Kingdom. Therefore, in Northern Ireland we are left with a shadow form of the NCA that can carry out only its border and customs functions, but not its other crime-fighting roles.

In her sixth statement to this House on the security situation in Northern Ireland, the Secretary of State said that the terrorist threat in Northern Ireland remains severe, compared with the threat in Great Britain, which is moderate. The Northern Ireland Justice Minister has warned that the PSNI is already facing pressure with the threat from dissident republicans and loyalist street violence and therefore does not need extra burdens placed on it when there is a fully equipped national agency able to deal with those duties.

The inability of the NCA to operate to its full extent in Northern Ireland means that a back door is open to organised criminal gangs in areas of drug enforcement, human trafficking and other forms of serious criminality. However, the nationalist parties in Northern Ireland do not seem to care about the most vulnerable in our society. This House should be aware, however, of the duplicitous nature of the nationalist parties, as this week in the Northern Ireland Assembly they voted for the Human Trafficking and Exploitation (Further Provisions and Support for Victims) Bill, introduced by my party colleague Lord Morrow, which would ensure that the perpetrators of the crimes of human trafficking and slavery are caught and appropriately punished for the suffering they have inflicted, yet they carelessly oppose the NCA having the ability to administer those powers. Furthermore, the House should note that a number of years ago the nationalists approved the devolution of justice, with SOCA in place, without any caveats.

Even though there is more accountability in Northern Ireland than in any other region of the United Kingdom, it appears that the nationalist parties simply do not like the NCA, and here is the reason: it is a UK-wide agency and they are on a crusade to block anything that is British and remove it from Northern Ireland. It is high time nationalists and republicans stopped using excuses and faced up to the reality of the world we live in and the necessity of such an agency to keep the people of Northern Ireland—their constituents as well as mine—and particularly the most vulnerable, safe.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sammy Wilson]

If I had got to my next sentence, that is exactly the point I was going to make. The Chief Constable goes along to the Policing Board on a monthly basis and can be questioned on all the issues that the board is concerned about and all the issues that concern him.

The last point that the hon. Member for South Down made is that all this has to be wrapped up in statute. An assurance has already been given; I have heard the Justice Minister give it. Indeed, when I was a Member of the Northern Ireland Executive, the assurance was given not only that there would be a legislative consent motion here establishing the powers of the NCA, but that any additional statutory changes that were needed in law would go through the Northern Ireland Assembly.

It is not the case that the conditions of accountability are not being met. The hon. Member for Vauxhall (Kate Hoey) asked for an explanation of what is happening. I do not want to take the worst possible explanation, but there are only two interpretations I can think of: first, that the SDLP is so scared of Sinn Fein that it will not take a courageous step on an essential element of policing; or secondly—this is even more petty and childish—that because the term “national” is in the name, the SDLP cannot accept it. We could either batter SDLP Members into submission in this debate or persuade them, but even if we did persuade them by the end of the debate, the situation would not be resolved: given the way the Northern Ireland Assembly works, Sinn Fein has a veto on any legislation because it holds a certain percentage of seats on the Executive.

I have a challenge for the Government. If, even after all the safeguards that the nationalists have said they want have been put in place, there is still a refusal, do the Government have the courage to say, “If you’re going to put the security of people in the whole of the United Kingdom in jeopardy, if you’re going to allow Northern Ireland to be used as a back door for international criminal gangs, and if Northern Ireland is to be the bank for criminal gangs, we are going to put an end to that by putting through legislation—we will take it out of your hands.” That would be a real step of courage, and that is the test.

[Mr Dodds]

My hon. Friend is making an extremely important point which follows the earlier point that, whatever the SDLP says, the critical issue is the attitude of Sinn Fein, which is not even prepared to engage on the issue. The Government here at Westminster cannot avoid this issue and, as with a number of issues in Northern Ireland, they are going to have to step up to the plate in the interests of the people of Northern Ireland on both sides.

[Sammy Wilson]

It is, of course, in the interests of not only the people of Northern Ireland, but the people of the whole of the United Kingdom. That is the challenge. If Sinn Fein are dancing on the head of a pin, the Government must stop pussy-footing around them and make a decision.

--- Later in debate ---

[Karen Bradley]

No, please forgive me.

David Ford has also been clear that this cannot go on indefinitely. He said we are now at the end of the road. His proposed package is comprehensive and gives clear, transparent and significant local accountability, which we fully support, but if agreement is not reached we will have to draw a line under it for the foreseeable future and we will need to assess how that affects law enforcement here.

Policing is devolved in Northern Ireland and we respect that. We have been, and are, fully supportive of the discussions being led by the Justice Secretary to address the concerns around accountability. These discussions remain ongoing—David Ford is trying to meet Sinn Fein and Keith Bristow, the director general of the NCA, has met the parties to address their concerns and offer assurances. If agreement is not reached, we will have to accept that the NCA will not be fully operational for the foreseeable future. I therefore urge all parties—

[Mr Dodds]

Will the Minister give way?

[Karen Bradley]

No, I will not, given the time we have left.

My right hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan), who apologised for having to leave before the end of the debate—

Historical Child Abuse Allegations

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd October 2014 Commons Chamber

[Norman Baker]

My hon. Friend raised that issue at Home Office questions last week and I undertook to write to her, which I will do very shortly, and my officials are in touch with MOD officials to make sure the best possible response is given to her on that matter.

The terms of reference for the Home Office inquiry—if I can call the Fiona Woolf inquiry that—have been drafted to ensure that this strong and balanced panel of independent experts can have full access to all the material it seeks, unless there is a statutory impediment to it doing so. The panel will consider matters from 1970 to the present day, although this can be extended if evidence is provided that supports this, and I believe that the Child Migrants Trust, for example, may submit evidence to that effect, including about Northern Ireland matters. It is for the panel to decide how and where to focus its efforts in order to complete its work and to make recommendations within a reasonable time scale. The terms of reference have been finalised and a copy has been placed in the House Library. The panel has committed to provide an update to Parliament before May next year.

As set out in its terms of reference, and as referred to by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East, the independent panel inquiry will extend to England and Wales only, and there are very good and powerful reasons for that. I know how concerned hon. Members are about the horrible offences that took place at Kincora and about the perception that justice for the victims of those terrible crimes has not been properly served. I entirely understand those concerns. I am also aware of the concern expressed in the debate in the Northern Ireland Assembly, and know that that deep concern is shared by all the people of Northern Ireland.

The coalition Government is determined that everything possible is done to uncover the truth about what happened and that appropriate action is taken. If there is any difference of view, it is only on the way in which this should be done.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The Minister referred to the debate in the Assembly. There was a great degree of cross-community consensus that this should be done as part of a national inquiry. Normally the Government’s response to Northern Ireland issues is, “Well, if you can get a consensus among the parties in the Assembly, we will do that.” Why is that not the response in this case?

[Norman Baker]

Let me move on with my remarks, which I hope will respond to that important question.

The issues relating to Kincora are being examined by the historical institutional abuse inquiry under Sir Anthony Hart’s chairmanship. Currently, the view of Ministers across government is that this is the most appropriate place where all allegations related to Kincora should be examined.

Because the protection of children is a devolved matter—I accept the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Belfast East that she feels certain matters have been dealt with fully—it would clearly be less appropriate for the inquiry panel chaired by Fiona Woolf to make recommendations for Northern Ireland concerning the running of the current child protection system there. Indeed, legislation was enacted in Northern Ireland specifically to enable Sir Anthony’s examination to take place.

Data Retention and Investigatory Powers Bill

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 15th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mrs May]

The European Court of Justice did not say that a 12-month retention period was unlawful. It said that it recognised the need for access to and retention of the data, and it questioned the periods that were set aside. In fact, the data retention directive said that data could be retained for up to 24 months—we had previously used 12 months, rather than 24—but one of the issues was that it was said that requiring the retention of every type of data for the same period of time was not right and proportionate, and that it was necessary to be able to differentiate. We are introducing that differentiation by setting our data retention period at a maximum of 12 months, so that notices issued to CSPs for certain types of data can, if it is felt to be right, ask for retention to be for a shorter period.

As I have said, communications data are used in 95% of serious and organised crime investigations handled by the Crown Prosecution Service and have played a significant role in every Security Service counter-terrorism operation over the last decade. Clauses 1 and 2 will ensure that we can maintain the status quo by replicating our existing data retention regulations. As I have indicated, the Bill gives the Secretary of State the power to issue a notice to a communications service provider only if he or she considers the retention to be necessary and proportionate. As I said in response to my hon. Friend the Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) and other hon. Members, the data retention notice will specify the duration for which data are to be retained, for up to a maximum of 12 months. If it is not proportionate to retain certain data for a full 12 months, a shorter period can be chosen. The data types that can be retained will be limited to the strict list of data types that are currently specified in the 2009 data retention regulations, and there will be a clear requirement for the Secretary of State to keep any data retention notice under review.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

When it comes to the battle against terrorism, there is an ongoing, daily issue with the threat and carrying out of attacks in Northern Ireland, never mind all the other threats to national security. Does the Home Secretary agree that if this legislation were not passed, we would face an extraordinary situation, in that data retention powers would exist in the Irish Republic, because there they are in primary legislation, whereas in Northern Ireland, where the main threat exists, the Police Service of Northern Ireland and others would be deprived of a massive tool in the battle against terrorism and in co-operating with their neighbours down south?

[Mrs May]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an extremely important point. He highlights one of the reasons why it is important to pass this Bill and retain this capability in relation to communications data and lawful intercept. He is absolutely right: because the Republic of Ireland brought its communications data regulations into primary legislation, it does not have to respond to the ECJ judgment. It is because ours were in secondary legislation that we have to respond to the judgment.

Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Thursday 8th May 2014 Ministerial Corrections

The following is the response given by the Minister for Security and Immigration, the hon. Member for Old Bexley and Sidcup (James Brokenshire), to a question from the right hon. Member for Belfast North (Mr Dodds), during a debate on Prevention and Suppression of Terrorism on 2 April 2014.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Paragraph 12 of the explanatory memorandum states:

“If a proscribed organisation…applies to the Secretary of State for deproscription, the proscription of the organisation will be reviewed.”

How does that work in practice? If an organisation and its members are illegal—proscribed—how do they have the locus to apply to be have the proscription reviewed?

[James Brokenshire]

Under the current regime, the organisation or person affected by a proscription can submit a written application to the Home Secretary requesting that she considers whether they or a specified organisation can be removed from the list of proscribed organisations. There is a process for this. The application should also state the grounds on which it is made, and the Home Secretary is required to determine the application within 90 days.

If the Secretary of State agrees to de-proscribe that organisation, she has to lay an order before Parliament removing it from the list of proscribed organisations. In practice, all the evidence and intelligence have to be considered across Whitehall. The order is then subject to the affirmative resolution process. In other words, it is a similar process to a proscription application. I have to say to the House that no de-proscription applications have been received since June 2009.

[Official Report, 2 April 2014, Vol. 578, c. 951.]

Letter of correction from James Brokenshire:

An error has been identified in the response given on 2 April 2014.

The correct response should have been: