Scottish Football (Tax Liabilities)

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 29th February 2012 Westminster Hall

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure, Mr Betts, to serve under your chairmanship for the second time during this Session. I have been asked to give the apologies of some hon. Friends who are detained in the Scottish Affairs Committee and the Treasury Committee. I am sure that many of them would otherwise have been here to discuss their take on what has happened in the Scottish game in recent weeks.

Hon. Members need no reminding of the importance that football clubs play in our communities north and south of the border. I am privileged to have two senior football clubs in West Fife. Dunfermline Athletic is in my constituency, and Cowdenbeath is some 800 metres over the border in the constituency of my right hon. Friend the Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown), the former Prime Minister. I want to say a little about the role of those clubs, and clubs like them, throughout Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom.

On Saturday, I was lucky to be taken to Cowdenbeath’s home game against Brechin City football club as the guest of a local law practice, Stenhouse Husband & Irvine. While sitting with the club’s board of directors over lunch, I was able to talk about the state of the Scottish game as a whole, and the way in which clubs operate in the lower divisions. People give up their time and money to support clubs such as Cowdenbeath and Brechin City, and I was struck that they do so not for financial gain, or the glamour, or even the company of Members of Parliament, but because of their deep affection for the clubs in their communities, their love of football, and because they want to give something back to their home towns.

On Saturday afternoon, I had the opportunity to spend some time with the chairman of Cowdenbeath football club, Donald Finlay QC. You may not be familiar with that name, Mr Betts, but he is one of Scotland’s highest profile Queen’s Counsel, a former vice-chairman of Rangers football club, twice rector of the university of St Andrews, and someone who has enjoyed a colourful and entertaining history of involvement with Scottish football. While chatting to him on Saturday afternoon, I asked him why, having been involved with Rangers during their most successful period, highlights of which included narrowly missing out on a European cup, and achieving nine league titles in a row, he provided so much time and energy to support one of the lesser lights of Scottish football. I hope that Mr Finlay does not mind me sharing his answer. He said that he was Cowdenbeath born and bred, and was always proud of his home town. He simply wanted to put back a little into the community that he loves so much.

The second thing that struck me was that clubs in the lower leagues operate with far more fiscal responsibility than some of the clubs in the top two flights of Scottish football. Perhaps it is because those involved in the running of lower league clubs are local business men and lawyers that they have a healthier respect for a balance sheet, and recognise that a club’s expenditure must not exceed its income. It is undoubtedly a source of frustration to many smaller clubs that every month they must account for every penny while the so-called big boys of Scottish football are able to rack up debts of hundreds of thousands, if not millions of pounds, with no obvious means of repayment.

Thirdly, it is worth noting that those who work behind the scenes at our smaller clubs often do so for little or no recompense, and would normally have no expectation of receiving any praise or credit. For example, on Saturday, I discovered that the tannoy announcer at Cowdenbeath FC is Mr Jim Stark, who was editor of the Central Fife Times. Behind the scenes, one of the key cogs in the functioning of a successful match day is Mr Alex Haddow, chairman of the local community council. Without the tireless support of such individuals, and hundreds of other community heroes, clubs such as Cowdenbeath and Brechin City would not function. The strength of feeling in clubs further up the Scottish leagues is equally strong, and due to the full-time nature of their clubs, arguably their roots go even deeper into their local communities.

For the sake of probity, perhaps I should declare an interest at this stage. I am not only a Dunfermline Athletic season ticket holder, but my constituency office is located within the club. Dunfermline Athletic—or the Pars—like many other clubs, has invested heavily in supporting youth and grass-roots football. Indeed, the club offers classes for children from 18 months and through primary school to introduce them to the game, and to build their confidence and interpersonal skills. Those classes, with the support of their parents, help to develop children’s motor skills, and they provide a fun and safe environment so that children can integrate and develop their characters. The emphasis is, rightly, on fun and enjoyment, but it is a crucial role, for which clubs receive no financial recompense, and fills a vital role in society—some might say the big society, which the Minister is so keen on. Beyond primary school, football clubs, like those south of the border, have successful youth academies. Dunfermline’s under-14s and under-15s recently visited the city academy in Manchester, and were able to take part in a contest against players from the likes of Manchester City.

The financial situation in Scottish football clubs in recent years has been dwarfed by their counterparts in the English leagues. I shall provide some context for the finances of Scottish football. The television sponsorship deal in Scotland is only approximately 1% of that south of the border. Outside the old firm, players’ wages in the Scottish premier league are typically only £1,000 to £3,000 a week, which is a fraction of that paid to players in the premiership, the championship, or even league one. To put it simply, the annual wage of a Dunfermline player is less than the weekly salary of a Manchester City, Chelsea, or Manchester United squad player. None the less, clubs such as Dunfermline are expected to compete with the giants of Scottish football.

The recent financial events at Rangers football club cannot be seen in isolation. Before I talk about the impact on other clubs of Rangers going into administration, it is worth recapping the saga at Ibrox. The origins of Rangers’ problems date back over two decades. In 1988, David Murray bought a majority shareholding in the club for approximately £6 million. Mr Murray invested heavily in building a team that could not only dominate the Scottish league, but compete with the best of Europe. Something that is often forgotten is that when Rangers, under Murray and Graeme Souness, were building their successful side, which would go on to win nine league titles in a row, English clubs were banned from competing in Europe, so Rangers were able to attract players from England who, to play in Europe, either had to move to Europe or travel north of the border to play for the old firm. The list of players at Rangers during the late ’80s and early ’90s was a “Who’s Who” of Bobby Robson’s England team. The names will be familiar to every English fan: Chris Woods, Terry Butcher, Trevor Sinclair, Gary Stevens, Trevor Steven, Ray Wilkins and Trevor Francis. They were great players in a great team.

Rangers were able to use their dominance and ongoing success to attract some of Europe’s best players, such as Brian Laudrup and Paul Gascoigne. Unfortunately for the club, their ambitions were never matched by their income, and in 2004 those debts peaked at a staggering £72 million. However, in the next few years, Rangers reduced their debt to some £30 million by the end of the decade, according to their annual accounts. In 2010, Mr Craig Whyte confirmed to the stock exchange that he was in talks with Rangers’ owners about a takeover. In 2011, Mr Whyte formally bought the club for a notional £1, having agreed to take on the club’s debts. He promised Rangers fans that he would be able to service those debts.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. He referred to the history and the debts racked up by Rangers, but does he agree that that is commonplace today? Manchester City and Chelsea have massive debts, far in excess of what Rangers ever racked up. The only difference is that they have someone to stand behind those debts. The phenomenon is not new, and sadly it has not gone away, but it is not unique to Rangers.

[Thomas Docherty]

The right hon. Gentleman is correct. What is appalling about the Rangers situation, and has come to light in recent weeks, is that Mr Whyte did not have the money to service the debt. It has now transpired that in what I would regard as a most disgraceful act, Mr Whyte and cohorts borrowed money from Ticketus on the future sale of season tickets. In effect, Rangers fans paid for Mr Whyte’s ill-fated takeover; they are the losers, and I am sure that disgraceful situation will be recognised across the House.

Remuneration of EU Staff

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2012 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

My hon. Friend makes a further fine point, as he frequently does. By failing to restrain the budget, the Commission is almost, metaphorically speaking, acting as judge and jury in its own case, deciding the matter in a way that could clearly be said to be self-serving. My hon. Friends will all be pleased to hear that reform of the staff regulations is extremely important in the next multi-annual financial framework, because it is there that we can control administrative expenditure year in, year out.

The House is aware that we need to promote budgetary restraint at every opportunity. That is the UK’s top priority. That means that we need to ensure that the EU budget contributes to domestic fiscal consolidation. The Prime Minister has stated, jointly with his EU counterparts, that the maximum acceptable expenditure increase through the next financial perspective is a real freeze in payments. To deliver this, we want very substantial reductions in many areas of EU spending, compared to the Commission’s proposals, including on salaries, pensions and benefits, as well as discretionary administrative spending, such as buildings policy and IT. The EU cannot continue to insulate itself from cuts at the expense of UK taxpayers.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The Minister talks about ways of cutting back expenditure. What representations have the Government made recently on the terribly wasteful and inefficient practice by the European institutions, particularly the Parliament, of moving between Strasbourg and Brussels? Have the Government pressed that issue recently?

[Miss Smith]

As I hope my comments have made clear to all hon. Members in the Chamber, this Government take extremely seriously all aspects of budgetary restraint. I firmly expect us to review the situation with the same principles at hand. We are looking for the kind of restraint in the EU institutions that we can show proudly to UK taxpayers back at home. That is what I am laying out today across a number of areas. I mentioned buildings policy, for example, in my comments a moment ago.

I shall conclude in order to allow other hon. Members to have their say on this extremely important topic. The Commission must not be allowed to cosset its officials with pay packages that are grossly inflated. It has a clear responsibility to put forward an ambitious programme of reform to reduce its administrative budget. That is why this Government will continue to challenge the current system in order to contain the costs of Europe. I commend the motion to the House.

Autumn Statement

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

The Transport Secretary sitting next to me has just genuinely volunteered to meet my hon. Friend. We will look at improvements to Ilkeston train station. I did not set it all out in detail today, but there is scope for further smaller investments in rail stations and pinch points on our road network—we have set aside considerable sums of money for that. I will ensure that my hon. Friend meets the Transport Secretary soon to put her case.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

On credit easing, how will the Chancellor’s announcement today apply in Northern Ireland? He knows that some 60% of bank lending to business in Northern Ireland is done by non-UK clearing banks, so I would be grateful if he elaborated on how he thinks it will apply in Northern Ireland. Will he work with the Finance Minister there to find a way through the current credit crunch for business?

[Mr Osborne]

First, I am happy and keen to work with the devolved Administration in Belfast on how the scheme will apply in Northern Ireland, given the specific issues that Northern Ireland faces with the involvement of the southern Irish banks. It is certainly a UK-wide scheme and we are particularly aware of the acute problems that the financial crisis south of the border have caused in Northern Ireland.

Fuel Prices

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I am grateful to be taking part in the debate and I congratulate the hon. Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) and his colleagues on having secured it. I also congratulate the many individuals who signed the e-petition and those others who managed to persuade the Backbench Business Committee to have this debate today.

This issue is one of our constituents’ major concerns; indeed, surveys have put it right at the top of that particular poll. The fact that households in the United Kingdom pay on average £677 a year purely on fuel duty illustrates the extent to which this issue affects ordinary working people and those in the poorer sectors of society. The poorest 20% are generally paying twice as much of their income on fuel duty as the richest 20%, which cannot be right. It is clear that the impact is not just on poorer people but on those in rural areas, as has so eloquently been pointed out already, and there is also a disproportionate impact on younger people. We had a debate in the House not long ago about car insurance and it is clear that younger people face a big premium for car insurance. As a result, they are finding it very difficult to stay mobile, to get jobs and to stay in employment.

[Tessa Munt]

Just two Fridays ago in the Youth Parliament debate, transport was identified as a main issue of concern for the Youth Council's campaigns over the next year. I hope that the Minister will take that into account when she responds to the debate.

[Mr Dodds]

Yes; transport is a big issue for young people, because in order to get jobs, stay in employment, get around and socialise they need to be mobile. In rural areas and poorer areas it is difficult for people to sustain that at the current price of diesel and petrol.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

We are urging people to get into work, but people who live in rural areas in Strangford and who travel to my right hon. Friend’s constituency of Belfast North will find that a two-hour round trip costs £10 a day. That is £50 a week or £250 a month, which is a large chunk out of anyone’s wage packet. Does my right hon. Friend agree that a reduction in the price of diesel and petrol would help the unemployed to get a job and would help the employed to stay in work?

[Mr Dodds]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend, who makes a good point and illustrates it with the facts. I will come on to the situation in Northern Ireland, but it is clear that a car is a necessity, not a luxury, for many people in his constituency, so he makes a valid point.

The fact is that Northern Ireland has the highest-cost fuel of any region in the United Kingdom. The Automobile Association’s October fuel price report showed that of the 12 regions of the UK, Northern Ireland was, on average, the most expensive for unleaded petrol, diesel and super-unleaded. On top of that, its energy prices more generally are among the highest in the United Kingdom. I mentioned car insurance; Northern Ireland’s car insurance premiums are by far the highest in the United Kingdom. They are, on average, 83% more expensive per person than in the rest of the United Kingdom. Earlier, someone mentioned a double whammy for their constituents; in Northern Ireland, we have a severe triple whammy when it comes to energy, fuel prices and car insurance. Those issues have to be addressed. Some will have to be addressed by the devolved Administration, and there are Ministers working on the issues, here and at home, but there are also issues that can be addressed only at the level of the Westminster Government.

I hope that this debate will contribute to focusing the Government’s mind on this serious problem. Some 83% of people in Northern Ireland go to work by car, van or minibus, compared with only 70% in the rest of the United Kingdom. That shows the rural nature of much of Northern Ireland, and the fact that we have an underdeveloped public transport network; for example, large parts of the west of the Province are not served by the railway network. Clearly, the car is therefore a necessity there, not a luxury.

[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

The right hon. Gentleman and I normally talk about pig farming, but on this occasion, we can talk about the fact that in our very rural areas—particularly in my constituency of Devizes—the issue is the lack of competition among petrol stations and heating oil providers. None of us is on a grid; we are all reliant on heating oil. My area has similarities, in microcosm, with the right hon. Gentleman’s area.

[Mr Dodds]

Absolutely. We in Northern Ireland have a higher dependence on off-grid energy supplies than other places in the United Kingdom, but there are many similarities. We in Northern Ireland have a unique situation: we share a land border with the Irish Republic. As the per-litre price for petrol is, on average, 5p cheaper in the Irish Republic—15p a litre cheaper for diesel—we have the problem of fuel smuggling, which costs the Exchequer about £200 million to £300 million a year. One way to deal with that is for the Serious Organised Crime Agency and others to be tougher in tackling the problem, but there also needs to be an extension of the rural fuel pilots to Northern Ireland. That would not only reduce the cost of petrol and diesel and boost the economy, but increase the tax take for the Revenue. That has been clearly shown.

People in my constituency tell me all the time that they are appalled by massive oil company profits; BP had profits of £3.2 billion in the second quarter of this year. They want those profits passed on to people in difficulties. They are appalled by the difference in petrol prices across the Province. They cannot understand why supermarkets—I will mention supermarkets—in my constituency charge one price in one area and another elsewhere, simply because they can get away with it. People in my constituency want the planned fuel duty increases for next year to be scrapped to boost the economy, reduce costs and boost the tax take, which is only at 66% today, compared with 81% in 2001-02; that shows that the current policy of ramping up tax and fuel duty increases is not working for the Government. People in my constituency want the measure of inflation used to upgrade fuel prices changed from the retail prices index to the consumer prices index, which is used for everything else.

European Budgets 2014 to 2020

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

It is always a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash). I well recall when the House, not that long ago, passed an amendment in his name under which there was to be no annual increase in the EU budget. It was a wise amendment, and I was delighted that the House supported it.

I want to reflect on what happened last year—the Financial Secretary mentioned this—when the proposal was for a 6.2% increase in the annual budget. Despite all the tough talk, we ended up with an increase of 2.9%—at a time when budgets are being slashed in many areas vital to our constituents—and people were mystified about why, after all the tough talk, we had agreed to an increase. Today the Financial Secretary has spoken those dreaded words—“qualified majority voting”—and I am worried that we will end up in a similar position this year, despite all the tough talk. I am particularly concerned because I recall the tough talk not just on last year’s increase, but when the question of the European External Action Service came before the House and we were told that it would mean no increase in the budget. It transpired, however, that there would be a £400 million spike increase in the budget for that.

I was also worried when I saw that, after the European Parliament debated the matter on 26 October in Strasbourg, 52 of the 120 MEPs who voted against the annual increase were UK Members. It does not augur well for gathering together a coalition of those who are prepared to stand against this increase, when more than 420 MEPs voted for it.

I am glad to say that the Democratic Unionist party Member of the European Parliament was among those who voted against, and I am delighted that, on this occasion, every single member of the UK delegation to the European Parliament who actually voted, voted against. I have to note, however, that five Lib Dems, one Plaid Cymru Member and two Greens abstained, which I think is amazing on a vote that attracts such consensus in this House. I am sure that their colleagues here will want to ask their European colleagues exactly why they decided to abstain rather than vote against.

The proposal for an increase of £834 million in the UK contribution, which would bring our overall contribution to more than £14 billion indicates just how out of touch are the Eurocrats and many in the European Parliament. It also illustrates why we need a referendum on our relationship with the European Union. We have a situation in this House today where we are going to agree to what I think is an excellent motion signed by many excellent Members and it will be passed unanimously. People in the country will think, “That’s it, then. The sovereign Parliament of the United Kingdom has declared its position.” Yet, there have been hints, and the Financial Secretary is already paving the way for a further statement at some point, about some increase because we are subject to a qualified majority voting process. We are not masters of our destiny in respect of something as vital as the spending of almost £1 billion of taxpayers’ money.

That goes to the heart of the debate about our relationship with Europe: the incapacity of this House, of Members on all sides, even when they agree, to implement something on which the vast majority agree —virtually everyone apart from a few Lib Dem and Green MEPs, it appears—and yet we cannot do anything about it. This illustrates far more eloquently than anything any of us could say why we need this referendum sooner rather than later, so that we can address these fundamental inadequacies in the entire process, which leaves us sitting here today, talking about an issue, passing resolutions but powerless in this sovereign Parliament to do anything about it. I hope that the Government and all Members will take that on board.

Credit Institutions and Investment Firms

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 8th November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Harriett Baldwin]

I can see that if I carry on giving examples, I will only encourage my hon. Friend to find more passages of gobbledegook to read into the record, but it is indeed the most appalling document.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The hon. Lady makes powerful points on subsidiarity. We have had some fun at the expense of the document, which is long, convoluted gobbledegook, as the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash) said. However, the reality—this makes my heart sink too—is that unless we get enough countries in Europe to agree with us, the document will become directly applicable law in the UK. That is how serious the matter is. When one considers the amount of scrutiny that we rightly give to legislation in the House, one realises that the amount of scrutiny given to the document is appallingly low.

[Harriett Baldwin]

What adds to the power of the right hon. Gentleman’s argument is the fact that this week, of all weeks, we have seen how completely inadequately the euro countries have managed the governance of their budgetary arrangements and affairs over a matter that is causing serious problems for the world economy.

I wish to conclude by making one further point. I was completely gobsmacked by the chutzpah—if that is a parliamentary word, Mr Deputy Speaker—of the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie). Although I welcome the fact that he agrees with the motion, I noted that he did not refer to the previous Labour Government’s role in signing us up to the Lisbon treaty without a referendum. It displayed a stark lack of acknowledgement of his party’s role in getting us to this position.

I have spoken briefly because there is important business to follow, but I want to reiterate how important it is that the Financial Secretary be armed with the maximum political support for his trip to argue our case against this ridiculous 1,200-page document.

Public Service Pensions

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2011 Commons Chamber

[Danny Alexander]

The hon. Gentleman is right that the poorest in society end up paying the price for the loss of financial control that we saw in this country under the previous Government. He referred to the liabilities in public service pensions. Those liabilities are, on the latest figures, more than £1.1 trillion. That is the entire education budget for more than 20 years.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I welcome the flexibility that the Government are showing today in moving this whole issue forward. Where the statement dealt with the Government’s revised offer, the Chief Secretary provided some examples of the benefits that will accrue to some workers. Will he outline some examples of where people will be worse off? To press him on the point about the consumer prices index, he must surely have the facts and figures, but by how much on average will people be worse off as a result of the switch from RPI?

[Danny Alexander]

The right hon. Gentleman asks who will be worse off, which is a fair question. One flaw with the current final salary arrangements in the public sector is that the contributions of low-paid workers go towards subsidising the pensions of the highest earners. That is one reason why we want to move to a career average basis. Some of the losers from that would be the highest paid, particularly those such as chief executives of local authorities, who receive a large jump in salary at the end of their career and then get a pension as if that were their salary for their whole lifetime.

European Union Fiscal Union

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Westminster Hall

[Mr Binley]

The problem is serious, and I simply want to hear what the Minister has to say about it, because we expect our Government to recognise the impact on business and to do something about it. But that does not mean being involved with or part of the creation of a fiscal Europe in the eurozone. That is not the way to go, and I would rather go the other way: free up British business and restore some of the ancient and traditional markets that we have neglected for some time.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

I have listened to the debate from the outset. The truth of the matter is that there is no pain-free option, and that whatever happens there will be difficulties, but to continue with the old, failed approach and carry it forward to fiscal unity would be an even greater disaster than the alternative. We must inject some common sense and democracy into the argument. That is the alternative that faces the British people.

[Mr Binley]

I am grateful to my right hon. Friend, and that leads me to my final words.

British business is important. We must help the eurozone to come to a sensible conclusion, but that does not include our being part of a fiscal union. We must help to ensure that we renegotiate a relationship with Europe that is much more sensible than we have had for a very long time. If necessary, we must come out. We face a tough time, whatever occurs, and we must use that time in the interests of Britain, not of the eurozone, which is the creator of its own downfall.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Tuesday 6th September 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Osborne]

We are giving a much greater role to local communities in determining their own local plan. We are also protecting the green belt and areas of outstanding natural beauty—of which I am sure there are a number in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I would make this point: these are sensible protections for the countryside, but we must also allow economically productive development in this country. We have to simplify a planning system that is completely unintelligible to most citizens. That is precisely what we are doing and I hope we will be backed on both sides of the House.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

T6. Will the Chancellor give a categorical assurance to the House that the Government will swiftly and robustly reject any proposal from the European Commission, the European Parliament or any other European institution for a trans-European revenue-raising measure?

[Mr Osborne]

I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that I am certainly opposed to any new European tax.

Civil List

Lord Dodds of Duncairn Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacShane]

I do not really want to get into discussions about German lineages. I recall a previous German President who actually walked the length and breadth of Germany in his summer holiday, and he did not receive anything remotely like what we pay our official Head of State.

It is interesting to note that Scotland’s First Minister, Mr Salmond, has ditched his party’s original republicanism and now asserts that an independent Scotland—if that unlikely event were to take place—would keep the monarch as its Head of State. However, I would like to see any future monarch living a lifestyle in tune and in touch with that of the nation. We can see the Duke of Cambridge, who serves with RAF officers, and his wife living a lifestyle much closer to that of the rest of the nation.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The right hon. Gentleman has referred to people who have ditched their republicanism. Will he join me in welcoming the decision of the Sinn Fein mayor in the Irish Republic who welcomed Her Majesty and shook her hand—despite Gerry Adams’s advice to do otherwise—showing an increasing acceptance of the monarchy everywhere?

[Mr MacShane]

A law throughout my entire life has been that if Mr Gerry Adams advises anybody to do anything, they will be on the safest ground if they do the opposite.

I do not know whether my right hon. Friend the Member for Barking (Margaret Hodge), the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, or the Chair of any other Select Committee could examine the high levels of expenditure that we have discussed this afternoon. I am sure that the Bill will go through without opposition, but if the monarchy is to continue in future years—after the time of Her Majesty—some things will have to change.

I welcome the Bill and the way in which it is being presented, and I think that the Opposition are handling the matter as they should, but a wider debate is needed. Let me say again—not on my knees—that there is nothing that can be discussed in our newspapers, pubs and meeting rooms that cannot also be discussed, in full detail, in this our House of Commons.