Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Cameron of Chipping Norton Excerpts

Wednesday 8th July 2015 Commons Chamber

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Q1. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of the NATO recommended minimum of 2% of GDP as the basis for future UK defence expenditure.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

We assess our defence spending constantly as to whether it meets our obligations and keeps our country safe. As figures published last month show, we are meeting the 2% NATO target this year.

[Dr Lewis]

As the Prime Minister and, indeed, the Chancellor know, quality is not the issue with our armed forces, but quantity is. Given that we used to spend regularly between 4% and 5% of GDP on defence when we last faced a threat on the continent and a major terrorist campaign, should we not be aiming at a 3% target, rather than the bare NATO minimum figure?

[The Prime Minister]

My right hon. Friend is right: we do face very severe threats in our world. The point I would make to him is that the only way to have strong defence is to have a strong economy. That is absolutely key. We made some very clear commitments about the size of our armed forces, about the successor to the Trident submarine and also about the vital equipment programme, where we have the aircraft carriers and the other equipment vital to our armed services that are coming through. Those things are only possible because we closed the deficit in our MOD and the mess that we found when we became the Government and we have a strong economy.

[Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)]

Ten years ago, the 7/7 bombers cruelly took 52 precious lives. We remember them, the families’ courage and the injured, and we defy the terrorists.

Last month the Prime Minister celebrated Magna Carta, which set out that those who govern must be constrained in their exercise of power to protect those they govern. Our Human Rights Act is the very embodiment of those values. If he accepts that in a democracy there needs to be an effective check on Executive power, even though at times it can be uncomfortable for Government, will he abandon his plans to water down the Human Rights Act?

[The Prime Minister]

First of all, may I very much agree with what the right hon. and learned Lady said about the 10-year anniversary of 7/7 and about the bravery and the dignity of those families that lost their loved ones? She, like me, took part in the commemorations yesterday, which I thought were fitting and a permanent reminder of the threat we face and the work we must do to face down the evil of these terrorists and their narrative of extremism.

The point that the right hon. and learned Lady made about Magna Carta demonstrates that there were human rights before the Human Rights Act. The point I would make is that our proposed reform is to have a British Bill of Rights, so that more of these judgments are made by British judges in British courts.

[Ms Harman]

It is very important that we are unhesitating in our compliance with international standards on this; otherwise it gives a strong signal to other countries that we want to undermine those standards. However, there have been mixed messages from the Government. Last week, senior Government sources briefed the newspapers that the Prime Minister’s view was that withdrawal from the European convention on human rights

“is not going to happen”,

but the Home Secretary, the Justice Secretary and the Leader of the House have indicated that they want to leave. So can the Prime Minister make it absolutely clear that Britain will be staying in the European convention on human rights?

[The Prime Minister]

As I have said to the right hon. and learned Lady before, there is a danger in believing everything that you read in the newspapers. Our intention is very clear: it is to pass a British Bill of Rights, which we believe is compatible with our membership of the Council of Europe. As I have said at the Dispatch Box before—and no one should be in any doubt about this—issues such as prisoner voting should be decided in this House of Commons. I think that that is vital. So let us pass a British Bill of Rights, let us give more rights to enable those matters to be decided in British courts, and let us recognise that we had human rights in this country long before Labour’s Human Rights Act.

[Ms Harman]

If, as the Prime Minister reassures us, we are staying in the European convention, we might as well keep the Human Rights Act, which at least allows us to enforce it in our courts.

Ten years ago, the United Kingdom was awarded the 2010 Olympics and Paralympics. When he took office, the Prime Minister promised that the games would result in an increase in participation in sport. Will he tell us whether the number of people taking part in sport has gone up or down since the Olympics?

[The Prime Minister]

Participation in sport has gone up since the Olympics, and it has been a success. We should all remember what an excellent Olympic games that was. We have also seen a real success in primary schools, where there is more PE activity, and the primary school sports partnerships are working very well.

[Ms Harman]

I do not know what it says in the Prime Minister’s briefing folder, but he is completely wrong. The number of people taking part in sport has gone down since 2010, and children at school are doing less sport too. Does the Prime Minister agree that what we now need is a proper national strategy for sports participation, so that we do not miss the golden opportunity presented by the Olympics—an opportunity that his Government have so far squandered?

[The Prime Minister]

Right. Are we sitting comfortably? There are 1.4 million more people playing sport once a week than there were when we won the bid to host the Olympic games. The recent Active People survey—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Bryant, you are now an esteemed member of Her Majesty’s Opposition’s shadow Cabinet. [Interruption.] Order. Whether he is esteemed or not, he is a member of the shadow Cabinet.

[The Prime Minister]

He may be esteemed by you, Mr Speaker, but some of us take a different view.

As a result of the PE and sport premium for schools, the average time spent on PE at primary level has increased to over two hours a week, 91% of schools have reported an increase in the quality of PE teaching, 96% of schools have reported—[Interruption.] I know that Labour Members do not like facts, but when they ask a factual question, they should welcome a factual answer. [Interruption.] I have got all day, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. However long it takes, the answer will be heard.

[The Prime Minister]

There is not much else on today, Mr Speaker.

More than eight in 10 schools are seeing a rise in the number of children taking part in sport. The Olympics were a success for Britain, sports participation has gone up, more is now happening in our schools, and we will build on that legacy.

[Ms Harman]

The fact that we do not like is the fact that since the Olympics, participation in sport has gone down, especially among children. The Prime Minister should get out and sort that out.

In the English manifesto that was published by the Conservative party, the Prime Minister promised that before making changes in the constitution on English votes for English laws, he would

“Consult the House of Commons Procedure Committee prior to seeking approval from the whole House to the proposed Standing Order changes.”

When did he do that?

[The Prime Minister]

There have been consultations with the head of that Committee, and there is plenty of time—[Interruption.] I have to say to Labour Members that at least we published an English manifesto.

I think that there is a very simple choice for the House. For once, why do we not talk about the substance rather than the process? Post-devolution, we have a problem of unfairness: English MPs have no say on Scottish issues, yet Scottish MPs have a say on English issues. That is the problem. We are proposing a very simple measure, which is that legislation should not be passed on English matters against the will of English MPs. It is a very modest proposal. Is the right hon. and learned Lady really saying that the Labour party will oppose that proposal?

[Ms Harman]

We agree there is a problem and we agree there needs to be change, but it has got to be done properly—constitutional change has got to be done properly. Indeed the Prime Minister said at last week’s Prime Minister’s questions:

“We will publish our proposals shortly and Parliament will have plenty of time to consider and vote on them”—[Official Report, 1 July 2015; Vol. 597, c.1471-72.]—

and he cannot have consulted the Procedure Committee because it has not even been set up yet. The Prime Minister should recognise the strength of feeling in all parts of the House about the proper processes to get to this change. He should consult properly, or he will be breaking a promise he made in his manifesto.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. and learned Lady talks about proper processes: we have published proposals, we are having a debate in Parliament, and there will be a vote in Parliament. The Labour party has got to get off the fence and tell us: “Do you support this modest proposal or not?” We are still waiting for an answer.

[Chris Davies (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

Q2. If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 8 July.

[The Prime Minister]

I have meetings with Cabinet colleagues and others and, in addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

[Chris Davies]

Does my right hon. Friend agree that rural businesses in my constituency such as BSW Timber, which he visited during the election campaign, are benefiting from this Government’s long-term economic plan? What more can his Government do to further promote apprenticeships and create jobs in all sectors of the vital rural economy?

[The Prime Minister]

First, may I welcome my hon. Friend to his place, and say how much I enjoyed the visit to his constituency and that specific business? It has taken on a lot of employees and apprentices in recent years, and the claimant count in his constituency is down by 54% since 2010. What more we can do is encourage companies like this one to invest in training and apprentices because that is key to our future. We have got to ensure we do that, and that will only happen if we stick to our long-term economic plan.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

This week we commemorate the worst atrocity in Europe since the second world war: the Srebrenica genocide. In a genocidal act, 8,372 unarmed boys and men were taken out of what was supposed to be a United Nations safe area and were murdered. Will the Prime Minister commit to doing everything in his power to ensure that this genocidal act is remembered and do everything he can to get the international community to mark this as well?

[The Prime Minister]

I absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman about this issue: it was the largest act of genocide since the holocaust on the mainland of Europe—as he said, 8,300 people were murdered. The first thing is to be very clear that it was genocide, and to say to people who question that that they are genocide deniers. I am very proud of the fact that Britain has the second largest set of commemorations and events to mark the anniversary of these dreadful events. We have also been holding the pen at the UN in drafting a resolution to try and bring the world together to make sure it is remembered in the right way, and we should continue to do all we can to keep this at the front and centre of European and world politics so people realise this was a genocide, and we must learn the lessons from it.

[Angus Robertson]

I commend the Prime Minister on his answer and his efforts, and the Welsh First Minister Carwyn Jones who is hosting a commemorative event in Cardiff today, and Scotland’s First Minister Nicola Sturgeon who is doing a commemorative event in Scotland on Friday, but Bosnia’s suffering has continued since the genocide and the end of the war. Unemployment in Bosnia is more than 40%, among young people it is over 75%, and more than half the young people of Bosnia are considering leaving the country. Will the Prime Minister do everything he can, together with European partners, to support political and economic progress for Bosnia and Herzegovina and give the people there real hope for a better future?

[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right, and that is why I met the Bosnian President this week to discuss some of those issues, as well as to talk about commemorating and remembering Srebrenica. What matters is making sure that the institutions in Bosnia work better, and the politicians work better together in understanding their past and their shared future. It is very important that we keep the door of access to the European Union open, but for that to happen the institutions need improving and issues need to be dealt with properly—corruption and problems need to be addressed. But there is no doubt in my mind that the pathway to membership of the European Union has helped in Bosnia, as it can help in the rest of the western Balkans, and it is vital that we keep that door open.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

Q15. Seven-year-old Jagger Curtis from Romsey suffers from Duchenne muscular dystrophy. Every day that he waits for first NHS England and now the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence to make a decision about Translarna is a day that threatens his mobility. Last week’s decision to delay, potentially for up to five months, was a bitter blow. What action can my right hon. Friend take to make sure that NICE makes that decision with the utmost speed?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend rightly raises this issue, and I say to her that these are incredibly difficult decisions and we know how hard they are for patients and their families. I think it is right that it is expert clinicians at NHS England and not politicians who make these funding decisions, based on the available evidence. As she knows, NICE has not yet made a final decision on these drugs, so patients and their families, and other experts, can feed into its evidence-gathering and consultation process. She asks what we can do, and I think there are two things. First, when we have these drugs that cost over £400,000 per patient per year, it is right to ask some pretty challenging questions of the companies concerned and we should do so. Secondly, we must keep investing in our rare disease research and in genomics, and making sure that the NHS takes up these treatments rapidly. That is the sort of health service we want to build.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

Q3. I put it to the Prime Minister again that in his manifesto for England, which was the only part of the UK where he won the election, he promised on English votes for English laws to:“Consult the House of Commons Procedure Committee prior to seeking approval from the whole House to the proposed Standing Order changes.”We all know that the Committee’s membership has not been agreed by the House and it will not meet until next week, and the EVEL vote will take place next Wednesday. Will the Prime Minister please tell us why he is breaking his manifesto promise?

[The Prime Minister]

We are consulting the whole of the House of Commons, and the whole of the House of Commons will have a vote. When it comes to have its vote, it might want to consider what the leader of the Scottish National party here said in 2007—you might find this interesting. He asked the then Prime Minister whether it is not

“completely iniquitous that although English MPs are not able to decide on matters in Scotland, Scottish MPs from the UK parties vote on matters that affect only England?” —[Official Report, 6 November 2007; Vol. 467, c. 25.]

That was the view. Given that our modest proposal would actually restrict the SNP from far fewer votes than its own self-denying ordinance does, I would think it should vote wholeheartedly with the Government on this modest proposal.

[Michelle Donelan (Chippenham) (Con)]

Q13. As the Prime Minister knows, my constituency covers four market towns, but our high streets have declined under years of Labour’s neglect. [Interruption.]

[Michelle Donelan]

What support can the Prime Minister offer market towns such as Corsham, Chippenham, Melksham and Bradford-on-Avon?

[The Prime Minister]

First, let me welcome my hon. Friend to her place. I do know her constituency well and I spent a lot of time there with her before the election. What I would say to her is that the offer of devolution is not limited to cities; we are just as open to proposals from towns, counties and districts. To help our high streets we need a strong economy; to press ahead with these local plans; and to have deregulation of the class orders that sometimes prevent development from taking place. I would also argue, in the case of market towns, that we should make parking easier—and, preferably, free.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q4. The decision to pause indefinitely the electrification of the TransPennine rail line through Stalybridge and Mossley means that my constituents face many more years of delayed trains, cramped journeys and less frequent services. Are those really the characteristics of a northern powerhouse?

[The Prime Minister]

Is it not typical of the Labour party today that instead of trying to get behind the northern powerhouse and trying to build a balanced economy—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman says that there is an indefinite pause, but that is not the case. We will be pressing ahead with this investment, and it is right that the Labour party should be supporting it.

[Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

Q12. Will the Prime Minister lend his support to plans to extend the Robin Hood line in north Nottinghamshire, so that people living in former coalfield communities can get access to transport and employment, and those people who want to come as tourists can enjoy all that Sherwood forest has to offer?

[The Prime Minister]

The idea of the Robin Hood line is a very positive one. It is something that we want to support and we hope to make progress on it in the months ahead.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

Q5. Last Friday at Walsall football club stadium, there were tears, flowers and Walsall shirts and scarves as we remembered Joel Richards, aged 19, Adrian Evans, his uncle, and Patrick Evans, his grandfather, who were all Saddlers fans killed in Tunisia. Will the Prime Minister outline what steps he will take to ensure that bereaved families and the survivors of atrocities can have help immediately and in the future?

[The Prime Minister]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question. The thoughts and condolences of the whole House go out to the families of her constituents. I am glad to hear that Walsall football club is facilitating this very fitting tribute. I was very moved when I heard about it on television. As I announced to the House last week, I have asked the Cabinet Secretary for advice on a ministerial committee to ensure that work is properly co-ordinated across Government to support all those who have been affected. When I was talking to the victims of the 7/7 bombings yesterday, I was very struck by the way that they had been supported across many years in many different ways, covering all sorts of different issues in their own lives and the way they wanted to commemorate those terrible events in London. I want to ensure that we do it as well in the case of the Tunisian atrocities, and that is exactly what that committee will be set up to do.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

May I associate myself with the Prime Minister’s remarks about the families of the victims of Tunisia, particularly the family of my constituent, Sue Davey? In the past three years, unemployment in Tamworth has fallen faster than anywhere else in the country. Will my right hon. Friend encourage high-tech firms such as Jaguar Land Rover and BMW to be the motors of the midlands engine, and remind the Labour party that Ed Balls’ comments that our long-term plan would choke off jobs and growth were just plain wrong?

[The Prime Minister]

I am delighted that Tamworth has that record, not least because it has such an association with Conservative Prime Ministers down the years and the Tamworth Manifesto. The point my hon. Friend makes is a good one. People who try to say that the jobs we have created are part-time and low paid should look at what is happening in places such as the west midlands where we see growth in manufacturing, engineering and jobs that have long-term successful careers attached to them, and we want more of that.

[Jeff Smith (Manchester, Withington) (Lab)]

Q6. If the Prime Minister really is committed to the northern powerhouse, he will know that an essential element of that is improved transport connectivity between the key cities of Manchester and Leeds, and that is now under threat. Given the vague and evasive answer that he gave earlier, will he now join me in welcoming the Manchester Evening News campaign to get the electrification of the TransPennine line back on track?

[The Prime Minister]

I can certainly commit to that, because I said a minute ago that this is a pause and not a stop. We are absolutely committed to ensuring that the work goes ahead. We also want to get rid of the Pacer trains that were there all those years under Labour.

[John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)]

Does not the Greek crisis show that, when negotiating with the EU, it is very important to be clear about what one wants and not to accept its first or second offer because it will improve it under pressure?

[The Prime Minister]

I am sure that there are all sorts of things to learn from the Greek experience. I fear for the future of that country. Obviously, we want Greece and the eurozone to come to an agreement, but we have to be prepared for all eventualities and to make sure that, whether it is helping British tourists, British businesses or British pensioners living in Greece, we have made all the plans and taken all the precautions that are necessary. My approach to negotiation is a little different from the Greek approach, which is why I have been to see every Prime Minister and President in Europe to talk through what Britain wants to see in terms of change in Europe, and change for our membership in Europe, and I believe that that will be successful.

[Teresa Pearce (Erith and Thamesmead) (Lab)]

Q7. What does the Prime Minister have to say in response to new figures from Age UK showing that more than 1 million elderly people are not getting the basic help that they need to be washed, dressed or fed?

[The Prime Minister]

We need to see a continued improvement in social care, and we need to continue to help pensioners. Pensioner poverty is at an all-time low because this party has kept its promises to uprate the basic state pension, to support pensioners’ benefits and to make sure that people have dignity in their old age.

[Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con)]

When my right hon. Friend speaks to President Hollande in the immediate future, will he make it plain that he expects the port of Calais to be kept open, now and in the future, for lawful travel in both directions?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend makes a very important point. I had a very good discussion with President Hollande last week. We have seen more action by the French police in arresting the ringleaders and trying to keep roads and ports open. As I have said at this Dispatch Box before, it is important that we do not engage in finger pointing with the French, but recognise that this is a shared problem. Our juxtaposed border controls in Calais work well for Britain and, I believe, can work well for France, and we should continue to work together to deal with this problem.

[Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)]

Q8. My constituents are still waiting for universal credit to be rolled out to them. In fact, they are still waiting for a timetable of planned rollout. We are about to hear about the latest stages of the Government’s welfare reforms. When will the Prime Minister finish the last one?

[The Prime Minister]

I make absolutely no apology for taking universal credit at a deliberate pace. Many of us in this House can remember what happened when Labour introduced tax credits in one go and people came to our constituency surgeries with problem after problem. It is quite right to roll out universal credit at a deliberate pace, but I can promise the hon. Lady that it will be coming to Bristol South soon.

[Maria Caulfield (Lewes) (Con)]

Every child deserves the best start in life, not least those who need adoption. Will my right hon. Friend set out how the £30 million of extra funding will help even more children find a loving home?

[The Prime Minister]

I welcome my hon. Friend. It is important that we get this right. We saw a big increase in adoption during the last Parliament because of the changes that we made, and what we are putting on the table in this Parliament is not only extra money but the proposal to create regional adoption agencies so that counties and other adoption agencies can come together. What matters above all is finding a loving family and home for the child, rather than ensuring that it is in the precise geographical area where that child is in care.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

Q9. I am told that the Prime Minister may be planning a vote shortly using EVEL to repeal our hunting laws. Will this be a case of English hunting for English foxes?

[The Prime Minister]

No, it will be an opportunity for the House of Commons to debate an issue and then have a vote, as we were discussing earlier. I do not know what everyone else came here for, but I think that that is quite a good idea.

[Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)]

Q10. I am sure that the Prime Minister had time to study the “Building Great Britons” report from the 1001 critical days all-party group earlier this year, which put the cost of perinatal mental illness and child maltreatment at £23 billion a year. Will he commit to focusing the welcome additional child and adolescent mental health services spending on a pre-troubled families programme which invests in strong attachments between parents and babies at the outset as the best way to secure well-rounded children brought up in strong, loving families?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend, who has great experience in these matters, makes a good point. We are looking at how to have proper parity between mental and physical health. Everything we can do to help to strengthen families should be part of our agenda of genuinely tackling poverty. We want to tackle the causes of poverty, and alongside worklessness, debt, addiction and the rest of it, family breakdown is a big cause of poverty, so the work he talks about is vital.

[Jo Cox (Batley and Spen) (Lab)]

With people queuing to access food banks in my constituency, does the Prime Minister think it is a priority for the country to bring back foxhunting?

[The Prime Minister]

I think the priority for the country is to keep going with a growing economy that has seen 2 million more people in work, an economy that is going to see 3 million apprentices in the next Parliament, and an economy that is cutting taxes for hard-working people. That is the priority, and that is what the House is going to hear about in a minute or two.

[Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

Q11. Derbyshire is at the heart of the midlands engine, powering the economy of the country. Will the Prime Minister congratulate the workers of Bombardier on winning the £358 million contract to supply 45 more trains for London, securing local jobs for the next 35 years?

[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. Just as the automotive industry has been so important for the west midlands, the growth in the train industry has been important for the east midlands in recent years, and the progress at Bombardier is truly impressive. I had the great pleasure of visiting the company earlier in the year, and was even allowed to drive a train. I was not very successful at that, but the company is doing very well: it is investing for the future, providing trains for our country, and pulling through jobs and skills for the whole region.

[Justin Madders (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

Q14. I was surprised to learn from responses to questions from myself and others that the Government do not know where the northern powerhouse is, so—[Interruption.]

[Justin Madders]

So given the recent cancellation or pausing of major transport projects in the north, is it not the case that the only place where the northern powerhouse can be found is in the Prime Minister’s imagination?

[The Prime Minister]

The truth is that the Labour party ignored the north for years, and Labour Members cannot bear the fact that it is a Conservative Prime Minister and a Conservative Chancellor sitting for a seat in the north-west who are putting those issues firmly on the agenda and funding them.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—