Georgia: Political Situation
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
That is a question on many of our minds. However, I do not think we are trying to involve ourselves in any other country’s decisions relating to accession or otherwise. The principle that we seek to stick to is that this must be a choice made by the people of Georgia freely and democratically, and free of interference from other states.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, it is clear from the experiences of my noble friend Lord Blencathra and other observers that the recent parliamentary elections in Georgia were indeed seriously flawed. There were many credible reports of Russian interference—something that, sadly, seems to be happening with increasing frequency in various other countries as well; there were similar allegations in Moldova, Romania and other countries. Is the Minister working with international partners to counter this malign influence in the democratic systems of so many of our partner countries?
International Aid Workers: Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
The right reverend Prelate is right to raise this question. We work using every channel we can and every lever available to us, and in a way that we hope maximises the chance of all this engagement having an impact. We have always said that Israel needs to act within international humanitarian law. As much as it has every right to defend itself, we are increasingly concerned, as the days and weeks progress, about what is happening, particularly in Gaza but also in Lebanon. As the UK Government, we will continue to work to bring about the access we need so that aid can get to the people who really need it.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, the Israeli Government have banned UNRWA from operating in Israel due to the number of its staff involved in the 7 October attack. Considering this information, can the Minister tell us why this Government chose to resume funding to UNRWA?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
As the noble Lord should know—perhaps his noble friend might like to remind him—UNRWA is the only viable way to get aid into Gaza at the scale that is needed now. We understand the concerns of the Israeli Government, which were investigated. We resumed funding because we have an approaching crisis; many thousands of people are about to lose their lives unless aid gets into Gaza.
The Ukraine Effect (European Affairs Committee Report)
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Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, it is indeed a particular pleasure to participate in another debate on Ukraine and to see almost complete unanimity yet again across the House on the findings of the European Affairs Committee’s report on the Ukraine effect, examining the profound impacts of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine on UK-EU relations. I join in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Ricketts, for chairing this committee, and all noble Lords who participated in the production of this report and in today’s debate. Special mention should go to the noble Lord, Lord Levene, for such a splendid valedictory speech. We will miss his contributions to the House. An extra-special mention goes to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, who has turned up so stylishly attired in the colours of Ukraine. I miss our exchanges across the Dispatch Box during the Brexit years.
As we mark the 1,000th day of war in Ukraine, most noble Lords taking part in this debate have agreed that the war is indeed taking on a concerning and deadly new angle. I think we all agree that we have a moral and political duty to stand up for Ukraine. We have seen troops from North Korea arriving in Russia and videos of them training in Russian fatigues, and we also know that Russia has procured multiple weapons from North Korea and Iran to aid in, frankly, the murder of Ukrainian citizens. Yesterday, it was reported that Russia even launched an ICBM at Ukraine. Yet, also yesterday, I watched with open-mouthed astonishment the Russian Foreign Minister gazing at the camera and solemnly complaining about the West apparently escalating the war. The unbelievable hypocrisy of the current Russian leadership would indeed be laughable if the issue were not so profoundly serious.
As many speakers have observed, we are all waiting, perhaps with some trepidation, to see what the new US Administration will do on Ukraine. I hope and expect that the Government will do all they can to ensure the continuation of the vital military and financial support. I do not often agree with the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, but he was right to call out some members of the GOP for delaying the much-needed support that Ukraine needed in Congress earlier this year.
I am extremely proud of the fact that the previous Conservative Government were instrumental in supporting Ukraine in holding the Russian war machine to account. We implemented an unprecedented number of sanctions on Russia, with the EU closely following and aligning with us, as outlined in the report, and I am delighted to see that the current Government are continuing with that excellent work.
The report states that
“the imposition of sanctions since the Russian invasion of Ukraine has been effective overall”,
but we should always look to do more. I was particularly pleased that we established the OFSI—a vital part of the process—but it is of some concern that the OFSI has yet to fine any single individual or entity for sanctions evasions. I would be grateful if the Minister gave an update on what current enforcement action is foreseen, because we all know that widespread sanctions evasion is taking place.
To take one example, I saw yesterday that the exiled Russian opposition leader, Mikhail Khodorkovsky, highlighted how one Indian company, Shreya Life Sciences, exported to Russia over $300 million-worth of high-end Dell AI computer servers, sourced from Malaysia, earlier this year. These servers are restricted under both US and EU sanctions targeting military technology, and they can be used to power Russia’s electronic warfare systems. It deserves saying that the company is probably acting legally under Indian and Malaysian law, but I strongly believe that it is about time we started sanctioning some of these many companies—often Indian, Chinese, and perhaps some from the British Overseas Territories—that are making huge sums of money supplying Putin’s war machine in Ukraine.
As my noble friend Lord Godson observed, it is also clear from the report that leaving the EU has not in fact hindered our ability to work alongside the EU and to be swift and firm in sanctioning Russia. The report says:
“Without the need for agreement on unanimity, the UK can be nimbler and swifter in imposing sanctions”,
which, of course, it would not have been able to do if we were still in the EU.
This conflict starkly underscores the importance of close co-ordination between all like-minded nations—both those within and those without the EU. It has reunited the UK’s leadership on European security and reaffirmed the strategic value of NATO, where we must continue to champion that important collective defence. However, the report also highlights some underexplored areas of our post-Brexit relationship. Perhaps the Minister will able to say more about this in her reply. The report’s note that
“persuasive evidence that sanctions are most effective when they are enforced by as wide a coalition of countries as possible”
is indeed true.
Perhaps the Minister could update the House on how the Government are working with international partners to ensure that our sanctions regime is working in coalition with our many esteemed international partners. Does she know of any loopholes in the sanctions regime in the context of gaps between our regimes and our international partners’ regimes? Reinvigorating these ties enhances our strategic autonomy and bolsters resilience against the many authoritarian threats we now face.
The report also notes:
“The UK’s expertise in developing and implementing sanctions regimes is an asset which should be used more actively to support the capabilities of other countries, both EU and non-EU”.
The aim of sharing the UK’s experience should be to ensure a more effective implementation of sanctions by a wider range of countries. Again, I am interested to hear the Minister’s comments on that.
We on these Benches welcome the recent moves by His Majesty’s Government to sanction Russia’s shadow fleet by way of statutory instrument. The report goes on to claim that sanctions enforcement is a big issue, noting that
“REDRESS’s assessment of the UK’s performance as ‘weak’ and Spotlight on Corruption’s evidence that investigation of sanctions evasion had experienced ‘serious setbacks’”.
We all know that these issues are difficult. The previous Government struggled and I am sure the current Government will struggle. Things will never be perfect but we really should redouble our efforts to ensure that sanctions are as widely observed as possible. As many noble Lords have observed, effective sanctions regimes rely completely and solely on effective enforcement. Can the Minister address this concern in her response and perhaps share some specific examples of the robust action being taken by the Government and their agencies to enforce UK sanctions regimes?
In conclusion, it has been gratifying to see so much cross-party support across the House, across the Benches and political parties, for the Government’s actions on Ukraine. It is great that we are not suffering some of the political difficulties some other European countries are seeing in standing by Ukraine in its hour of need. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response.
Jailing of Hong Kong Pro-democracy Activists
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Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, the jailing of 45 pro- democracy campaigners in Hong Kong is a serious blow to the freedoms of the people of Hong Kong. The fact that this happened only 24 hours after the Prime Minister cosied up to President Xi is particularly concerning. I welcome that the Prime Minister publicly raised the issue of Jimmy Lai, but did he also raise all these other cases where the verdicts were, at that time, imminent?
China has flagrantly ignored the Sino-British declaration in respect to Hong Kong, and it continues to flout international law in the South China Sea. Therefore, given that China has an observable track record of violating such international agreements and given that Mauritius was the first African country to sign an FTA with China, why does the Minister not believe that China is easily capable of similarly disregarding the agreement handing over sovereignty of the Chagos Islands and therefore establishing a competing base on one of the neighbouring islands to Diego Garcia?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
I was not expecting Chagos this afternoon, I have to say. We have discussed the issue around Chagos and the treaty we have with Mauritius at length. As the noble Lord knows, Mauritius is a close ally of India and the UK, and the treaty will be subject to scrutiny in this House, so I hope that the concerns he raises about Mauritius somehow being susceptible to something around China can be responded to during that process.
The noble Lord is right, though, to draw attention to the fact that the UK Prime Minister met President Xi at the G20 in Brazil in the last few days and rightly raised the case of Jimmy Lai. Noble Lords can see the footage of that exchange for themselves, and they can reach their own conclusions about how it went.
On the 45 who were sentenced under the NSL, we are opposed to the NSL. We see this as in breach of the agreement that we reached with China in respect of Hong Kong; we are deeply concerned about what has happened. The 45 people were exercising their right to political expression and have now been imprisoned for it, and we oppose this.
Chagos Islands
Lord Callanan Excerpts(1 year, 3 months ago)
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Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, the new Government were suspiciously quick to conclude the deal, within weeks of taking office, with the Mauritian Government, represented as they were by a close legal friend of the Prime Minister. They now seem strangely reluctant to allow anyone to see the actual text of this handover. Since then, of course, we have had two important elections, so can the Minister confirm what discussions the Government have had with the new US Administration and with the new Mauritian Government? Is this not a case of negotiating with the wrong people at the wrong time?
Today, the Chagossian Voices group sent a letter, signed by 200 Chagossians, to the Foreign Secretary, again confirming that no Minister has ever responded to its previous letters. Can the Minister confirm whether there are any plans to engage with Chagossians in these negotiations? Can she explain why no Chagossians have been consulted so far? The vast majority of Chagossians deeply resent their homeland being handed over on a subsidised plate to Mauritius, a country 1,000 miles away. Lastly, does the Minister think there are adequate safeguards in this treaty—which, of course, we have not yet seen—to allow the lease of Diego Garcia to be extended beyond its current 99 years?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, as the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, said, there have been changes of Government in the US and Mauritius. I take this opportunity to congratulate both President-elect Trump and the new Prime Minister, Dr Ramgoolam, in Mauritius, on their election victories. Changes of Government are an inevitable part of negotiations with fellow democracies. We have also had a change of Government in this country since these negotiations began. This is the conclusion of a few years’ worth of negotiation—11 to 13 rounds of negotiation took place under the previous Government. We were aware that this could happen, and we are working closely with our allies, in both the US and Mauritius, on making sure that everyone is comfortable with the deal and the treaty. We have no reason to think that this is not the case at this stage.
On engagement with Chagossians, it was not possible for them to be party to these negotiations because they took place between Governments. I regret what happened to the Chagossians in the past—it was over 50 years ago, but that in no way diminishes the pain and hurt that they will have experienced. I accept that Chagossians will be concerned about the arrangements reached. We have prioritised the security of the US-UK military facility on Diego Garcia. People can disagree with that and can say that prioritising security was the wrong thing to do, but that is what the Government have chosen on behalf of the people of the United Kingdom, because we think that was in the best interests of the UK. There are arrangements in the deal to allow Chagossians to visit and return, and some Chagossians will be able to take advantage of that.
The treaty will be published as soon as it has been finalised with the Mauritian Government, and there will be a process for Members of this House and the Commons to debate it.
European Forest Institute (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
My Lords, copies of this order were laid before this House on 15 May 2024. The order was laid in draft before Parliament on 15 May, in accordance with the International Organisations Act 1968. It is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made once it is approved by both Houses. The order was approved in the House of Commons on 23 October 2024.
The main legal recourse to grant privileges and immunities to international organisations with a presence in the United Kingdom is the International Organisations Act 1968, which specifies the maximum privileges and immunities that may be accorded in the UK to various categories of international organisations. The provisions of the Act are applied to different organisations by means of Orders in Council. This order will confer on the European Forest Institute, referred to as the EFI, a bespoke set of privileges and immunities to enable the organisation to function and operate effectively in the UK. It does not confer legal capacity, as this was conferred on the EFI in the European Forest Institute (Legal Capacities) Order 2005.
This order will contribute to the fostering of closer collaboration between the EFI, its members and the UK Government, and support the establishment of an EFI UK office. In addition, in granting these privileges and immunities, we will be able to host an expansion of the EFI’s international partnerships facility in the UK through the opening of a UK office. The international partnerships facility is a global centre of knowledge and expertise that supports policy and governance reforms to improve forest governance and safeguard the world’s forests.
The EFI would host a small, permanent UK-based team, as well as drawing internationally renowned expertise into the UK. With London a major hub for private sector climate finance, there are potential opportunities to bring international forest and finance experts together to foster new financial initiatives, aimed at protecting the world’s forests and tackling climate change and nature loss. The order affords the director, the head of office and EFI staff members a bespoke set of privileges and immunities which diplomatic agents of a diplomatic mission established in the UK are entitled to, including an exemption from the suit and legal process. However, no immunity is conferred in the case of a motor traffic offence or damage caused by a motor vehicle. This is now a standard clause included in statutory instruments and treaties providing for privileges and immunities.
The Government consider these privileges and immunities necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has towards the EFI. The privileges and immunities conferred will enable its staff to operate effectively in the UK. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents. The EFI’s board members, and representatives of members, are subject to “official act” immunities. These immunities cover the inviolability of official papers and documents, customs provisions and immunity from suit and legal process, within the scope of official activities. The order also covers the inviolability of the EFI premises and archives, taxes and customs rates, and an immunity waiver.
The support for the EFI’s establishment of an office in the UK is a unique opportunity to reinforce the UK’s leadership on international forests and climate policy. The UK has been involved with the EFI for over 10 years, including through the FCDO’s flagship forest governance, markets and climate programme. Together with the EFI, we have supported national processes on forest and land-use governance in 17 countries across the three tropical forest basins. The EFI is key to that work and the UK remains committed to the organisation. I beg to move.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, for her comprehensive introduction to this subject. She will not be surprised to know that we are fully supportive of the European Forest Institute. It is a good idea for it to be based in the UK and we support the instrument that the Minister has brought before us today.
The EFI plays a pivotal role in advancing research, fostering innovation and developing evidence-based policy recommendations for the extremely important subject of sustainable forestry. As ecological degradation threatens forests worldwide, the institute has a key role to play and its work is becoming ever more vital. As the Minister said, this order seeks to grant immunities and privileges to the EFI, in line with a number of similar agreements that we have established with other international institutions—I took some of those orders through Grand Committee a matter of months ago. Immunities such as those outlined in the order are essential for allowing the EFI to operate independently, free from local administrative and judicial interference.
The UK has historically been a leader in international environmental co-operation. Supporting the EFI aligns with our commitment to combat climate change. It reflects our shared desire for forests that are productive, biodiverse and resilient against the stresses of modernity. The only question I have for the Minister is whether she has any more of these orders coming forward for other international organisations or whether this is the only one outstanding at the moment. We support this order.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
I am grateful to the noble Lord for his support. It is very good when we can agree on important issues such as this on a long-term, bipartisan basis. It is good to be able to work in this way on an issue such as forestry, especially in a week when the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are at COP in Baku, where deforestation and the responsible management of forests will no doubt be discussed. I welcome the support from the Official Opposition.
China: Human Rights and Sanctions
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Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, we are told that when the Foreign Secretary visited China, he raised British citizen Jimmy Lai’s sham detention, and we welcome that. Jimmy is 76 and is being held in solitary confinement, yet the Foreign Secretary has still not met Jimmy’s son, despite his coming to the UK on multiple occasions and asking for a meeting. Yesterday in the other place, the Foreign Secretary failed to answer whether or not he would meet Jimmy’s son, so let me give the Minister another opportunity. Will Ministers meet Jimmy Lai’s son—yes or no?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Baroness Chapman of Darlington) (Lab)
That is quite an easy one because my colleague, Minister Catherine West, has met Jimmy’s family on several occasions, both in opposition and since being appointed as a Minister. I also recall from reading the transcript of the Commons exchanges yesterday that the Foreign Secretary did indeed commit to meeting Sebastien Lai.
South Asia: Minority Faith Communities
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Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, first, I thank my noble friend Lord Ahmad for bringing this important subject forward for debate. It has been an excellent, albeit brief, discussion by noble Lords. My noble friend Lord Ahmad was always a champion on this issue in the Government, during his time as a Minister in the FCDO. I want—like the rest of the House, I am sure—to commend him on the excellent work he did on this and in other areas, particularly as the Prime Minister’s Special Representative on Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict.
South Asia is home to a rich tapestry of cultures, languages and faiths. Yet, sadly, as my noble friend said, recent trends across the region indicate an alarming rise in discrimination, persecution and violence against many religious minorities. From the discrimination faced by Hindu, Sikh and Christian minorities in Pakistan to the ongoing challenges for Muslims and Christians in India and the persecution of Buddhists and Hindus in Bangladesh, these communities are under increasing pressure. They are often denied their fundamental rights to worship freely, to practise their traditions and, fundamentally, to live in peace. For decades, the UK has promoted the principles of tolerance, inclusivity and religious freedom. I will be interested to hear from the Minister how the Government intend to continue that excellent work.
In the latest of a series of detailed reports on the state of global religious freedom, the non-partisan Pew Research Center found that six of the seven countries in the region of south Asia enforce “high” or “very high” governmental restrictions on religion. The sole exception, Sri Lanka, is also, sadly, now moving to higher levels of government restriction. Six of those seven countries also experience “high” or “very high” social hostilities involving religion, including terrorism and other forms of faith-based violence. Worldwide, only in the Middle East can higher levels of religious persecution be found. We have seen the level of conflict now happening in the Middle East, and these signs from south Asia are extremely concerning.
On these Benches, we believe wholeheartedly in individual liberty, and an essential part of freedom is freedom of belief. Can the Minister inform us what steps are being taken by His Majesty’s Government to ensure that people of different faiths, or indeed none, are continuing to be protected in south Asia?
In Sri Lanka, Sinhala Buddhist nationalists perceive religious minorities to be a threat to the religious identity of the state. Extremist Buddhist organisations such as Bodu Bala Sena have launched massive campaigns calling for the restriction of minority rights, particularly those of Muslims. Pakistan too features an alliance between religion and the state. The most obvious way the Pakistani state, in collaboration with religious extremists, attempts to quash religious pluralism is through its draconian blasphemy code, which bans defamation against Islam. The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, and the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Newcastle outlined some of the dreadful consequences of that law. In India, the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2019, which uses religious identity as a basis for citizenship, has also led to increased religious hostility and sectarian conflict. Arguably, interreligious tensions have never been higher in India than they are today.
Some may say that these issues are of no consequence to the United Kingdom, but they would be wrong. We are delighted to live in a pluralist society but, as the events of this summer have shown, the societal fabric on which Britain is built can sometimes tear.
In conclusion, I call on His Majesty’s Government to do all they can to ensure that the rights of minority faith communities continue to be protected and that freedom of religion and belief remains a cornerstone of our foreign policy efforts in south Asia. We know that none of these issues is easy, but the lives and dignity of millions depend on it.
Ukraine: North Korean Troops
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Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
Our sanctions regime and the legislation that surrounds it apply to any UK entity, be that in the UK or worldwide, as the noble Lord knows. We will speak to anyone we need to, using any appropriate channels, to try to dissuade others from supplying Russia through whatever means. All anybody supplying Russia with munitions, troops or anything else serves to do, whether they are an ally of ours or not, is prolong this illegal war and the suffering of the people of Ukraine.
Lord Callanan (Con)
My Lords, we on this side stand united with the noble Baroness and the Government in our support for Ukraine. Yesterday, it was reported in the Daily Telegraph that South Korea could send lethal weapons to Ukraine after North Korean troops land in Russia. Could she therefore confirm whether the Foreign Secretary was privy to any conversations during his recent visit to South Korea about whether it will provide support to Ukraine?
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary recently spoke with his counterparts in South Korea and, indeed, in China. Noble Lords can rest assured that he raised at the highest level all the issues we would want him to raise regarding Russia, Ukraine and China.
Iran (Sanctions) (Amendment) Regulations 2024
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Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for outlining these measures, which I support. I will make an appeal and ask two specific questions, on which I would be very happy if she writes to me rather than responding today.
I agree with everything the Minister said about the role of Iran in the Middle East and its relationship with Russia. My appeal is that we broaden our interests to include Sudan. We know that many of the drones in Sudan have been sourced from Iran. It is the world’s biggest humanitarian crisis at the moment. External actors are providing munitions despite there being no justification at all for any external munitions to be used on civilians in Sudan. I would be grateful if the Minister could write to me with the Government’s assessment of what is currently being used in the conflict in Sudan from external sources, specifically with regard to Iran.
I turn to my questions. First, I absolutely support the prohibition on equipment, but I noticed—if I read the measures correctly—an exemption for the personal property of someone travelling. Does that include designs? Do His Majesty’s Government have any concerns about UK interest in the design of these munitions, not just the provision of equipment to manufacture them? Again, I do not necessarily expect the Minister to outline that today.
Secondly, on the provision or export of goods to third countries that relay trade to Iran, I hope the Government have a response to what could be a particularly easy circumvention of these measures if our trade is with a broker country. We know that much of the equipment being used has multiple components from many sources; I would be grateful if the Government have a response on that. Notwithstanding those questions, I support these measures.
Lord Callanan (Con)
I thank the Minister for her kind introduction to this subject. We also fully support these regulations on drones, broader drone technology, financial services, funds and brokering services related to other items of strategic concern; of course, they are one piece of a much larger jigsaw. The Minister commented on the impact of Iran in our previous debate on Russian aggression in Ukraine.
Both the other noble Lords who have spoken outlined graphically how actively and malevolently Iran is undermining the international order through its support for Hamas, Hezbollah and the Houthis. While it is tempting to think that these are faraway conflicts, any action by the Houthis in the Gulf has the potential to undermine international shipments of oil, gas and other important commodities, which can affect the economy and well-being of this country. Therefore, it is right that we are targeting further the Iranian regime. We fully support these sanctions.
I lend my support to the point made by my noble friend on the proscription of the IRGC. It is strange that so many Conservative Ministers and MPs were in favour of proscription but never managed to get it through the Foreign Office bureaucracy and now so many Labour Ministers and MP who were previously in favour of proscriptions also do not manage to get it through the FCDO bureaucracy. It makes you wonder whether “Yes Minister” was a commentary or a documentary indicating the true state of affairs with the standing bureaucracy in this country. I know that this is difficult, but political will must win over bureaucratic will. I hope that the Minister can influence the Foreign Secretary to return to his previous views and hers and those of her ministerial colleagues and finally proscribe the IRGC. That would meet with widespread support across both Houses of Parliament and from me and many of my noble friends.
We support the sanctions and hope that the Government have success in implementing them.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, I again thank noble Lords for their contributions and support for these measures.
On the IRGC, I note the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Callanan, about the frustrations of political life and government. That is all I will say on that line of inquiry. We have already sanctioned the IRGC in its entirety. The separate list of terrorist organisation proscriptions is, as noble Lords know, kept actively under review. We do not routinely comment on whether an organisation is or is not under consideration for proscription. I will leave that there for today.
The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, makes an important point on Sudan. I will write to him about Sudan, but I point out that when sanctions are applied to Iran, they will affect Iran’s ability to supply Sudan as much as it would Russia. That will be the intention. On the issue of personal property, we have in minds such things as laptops, phones and other personal items. It would be restricted to that. It is right to flag this issue, and we are aware of it, but we felt it was important to include it.
This will apply to UK entities and individuals overseas and anyone who is in the UK. It will not apply any more widely than that. This is how the UK organises its sanctions, as the noble Lord knows. I know that he has long had a very keen interest in the issue of secondary sanctions and how we might engage with them. That is the situation as embodied in these regulations and with regard to the UK’s policy towards sanctions more generally. If I have missed a point there, which I think I may have done, the noble Lord must feel free to come back and help me out.