Non-Consensual Sexually Explicit Images and Videos (Offences) Bill [HL]

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 13th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, it is pleasure to rise to support this Bill and to commend the diligence and clear-sighted determination that has led the noble Baroness, Lady Owen of Alderley Edge, to bring it to your Lordships’ House today. I add my congratulations and thanks to those from all parts of the House for her doing so.

We have already heard the eloquent and persuasive testimony as to why this survivor-led Bill is needed, how its provisions close gaps in legislation and why the time is now to engage with these challenges. In the context of the cross-government mission to halve violence against women and girls in a decade, my right honourable friend the Home Secretary has repeatedly signalled her determination—she is not alone in doing this, by the way, among Ministers—to arrest the rise in extreme misogyny.

At this point in my speech, I want to make the point that I most came here to make, and which draws on the speech made by my noble friend Lord Knight of Weymouth and the reference the noble Baroness made in her opening speech to a quote from the Home Secretary. On 3 December, in a statement about stalking, the Home Secretary said:

“Let us be clear—we will use every tool available to us to give more power to victims and take it away from the hands of their abusers”.


That is what this Bill does. This tool is available, and it is available now.

My noble friend the Minister is an invidious position in this debate. I suspect that he agrees with the provisions of this Bill, but that he has to say that this is not the right vehicle for them. I challenge him to act according to all the exemptions in this elegantly drafted piece of potential legislation, which says, “You can do that if you have a reasonable excuse”. That just means an excuse with a reason. What is the reason why the Government will not live up to those strongly supported words of the Home Secretary, who said that the Government will use “every tool available” to take power from abusers and give it to victims? There is an obligation, given the nature of this debate thus far, on the Government in this case not to say, “We agree with the principle but this is not the right vehicle”. Why is that the case? If my noble friend can convince me, I will wait until the right vehicle comes along. But in short, the right vehicle is here, and it will be ridiculous if we do not take it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I am very happy to confirm the point that my noble friend has raised. In fact, in my briefing, the words “in this Session” are underlined—so, yes, that is indeed the case.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

Can I ask my noble friend a very simple question? Do the Government anticipate that any woman or girl will ever consent to the creation of what this legislation is aimed at—deepfake pornography to be used for revenge or for misogynistic reasons?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My noble friend raised that point with me the other day, and I checked it with advisers in the department. I think it would be unwise to assume that a woman would never, under any circumstances, consent to images being made.

Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank the noble and learned Lord for that question. I am happy to give that undertaking. As I mentioned, there is a Council of Europe initiative going on, but clearly we should, and we will, look at the EU directive.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome my noble friend to the Dispatch Box. Recognising that the Government are planning a review, do they still agree that there is an urgent need for a stand-alone anti-SLAPP Bill, and that the lack of legislation will see SLAPP litigations continue? In the words of our right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, as already mentioned, and as reported in the i newspaper on 3 June, they will continue effectively to stifle

“not just the rule of law and freedom of speech, but particularly … journalists doing their job to throw a spotlight and transparency on the most egregious behaviour of oligarchy, plutocracy, and very corrupt individuals doing bad things”.

Surely we need to stop that as soon as possible.

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I agree with everything that my noble friend has said. I cannot make a commitment to a stand-alone Bill, but there is nevertheless an urgent need for legislation. My noble friend may be interested to know that the number of Russian litigants appearing in judgments from the Commercial Court has more than halved in the year to March 2024, falling to 27 from a record high of 58. We believe that that is a result of the successful UK sanctions regime taking effect.

Prison Capacity

Lord Browne of Ladyton Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I thank the right reverend Prelate. New prison places are important and we will build more prisons—prisons we are proud of. So far as the public narrative goes, I could not agree more, but I have confidence in the fact that 20 years ago, when I first started recruiting people from prison, no one thought it was a good idea. Now, every company I meet thinks it is a good idea. It proves that changing perception when it comes to offenders and prisons takes time. I hope to be in this role longer than many other people who have done my role, and to be able to get into the detail and try to get prisons we are proud of.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord, Lord Timpson, to the Dispatch Box as the Minister for Prisons, Parole and Probation. From the noise the House made earlier, I think I am not alone in thinking that he is probably the best man for the job. I suppose I should draw attention to my entry in the register of interests; I am a non-practising member of the Faculty of Advocates. In fact, I presently have another interest that I suppose is not yet registered, in that I have a pair of shoes in my local Timpson for repair.

Speaking to Channel 4 News earlier this year, my noble friend said that in his view only one-third of people in prison needed to be there. In order to emphasise that radically reducing the prison population is not impossible, he added that the Netherlands had halved its prison population while reducing crime. That contradicts what I think the noble and learned Lord, Lord Stewart of Dirleton, implied in what I can describe only as a plea in mitigation on behalf of the previous Government, which was that these two things were impossible. I know the Minister has studied this. How did the Netherlands manage to reduce crime and reduce the prison population by almost half?

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Before we look at any other countries and international comparisons, we need to fix the system we have first. Before we can do anything on reducing reoffending and having prisons we are proud of, we need to stabilise the system. It is our first priority. We need to fix it, and we need to fix the capacity so that we do not have this problem again. We need to enable our fantastic staff in our prisons and Probation Services to do what they want to do, to put the building blocks in place so people who go to prison have a much better chance of not going back.