Health and Social Care

Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts

Thursday 9th September 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)]

My Lords, I shall be brief—

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, is taking part remotely and I invite her to speak.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

I declare my interest as a vice-president of the Local Government Association. My noble friend Lord Newby asked, but the noble Baroness did not answer, so I ask again whether she will give an undertaking from the Dispatch Box to guarantee that social care will receive the bulk of the revenue raised by the levy, in the medium term, regardless of whether the NHS has completed the backlog of waiting lists. Otherwise, this is no reform to social care at all, however delayed.

These proposals do nothing to help the current problems in the social care sector. The noble Baroness referred to the extra £1 billion to local government, but all the experts say a minimum of £4 billion a year is needed to help solve them. Can the Minister confirm that, given the current severe crisis in staffing and funding in our care homes, there will be funding on top of that £1 billion at least to start to remedy the problems in social care?

Procedure and Privileges

Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts

Tuesday 13th July 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, in an earlier debate on reform, I remember saying that in a race I would always back the tortoise rather than the hare when it came to reforming your Lordships’ House. The hare is constantly being shot at; I think the tortoise at the moment is hovering on the finishing line. At least we have seen some movement towards change and modernisation, which is extremely welcome. I add my thanks to all those who have been mentioned so far. In particular, I emphasise what the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, said in relation to the Whips, who have had the most horrendous task in keeping us in some sort of order while keeping fairness.

I will make one or two observations on the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, relating to timing. As I have already said to him, so he knows I feel this, I am extremely sympathetic to what he has put forward in relation to Tuesday and Wednesday—and, by the way, there are committees on a Thursday, so the idea that we infringe on committees on a Thursday but not on a Tuesday and Wednesday is a little odd, to say the least. Although the way in which we have conducted ourselves has been extremely impressive in the circumstances, as the Leader of the House spelled out, we have actually been working much longer hours than the House of Commons. We have seen the House sitting very late, and I fear that, with the level of business that is likely to be presented to us, we will end up in the worst of all worlds: we will start later and end much later, but we will expect people to be around for votes much later.

So there is a great deal in it, other than on a Monday, when those who live in Scotland, the north, parts of Wales and the West Country would have a hell of a job getting here for lunchtime. In my days as a Cabinet Minister, having to come down on a Sunday meant that, by the time I had done other duties, I had virtually no weekend at all, and I am certainly not keen to go back to that. So, if we could ask the Leader of the House, with the Procedure and Privileges Committee, to bring forward an alteration to that, I would be in favour and I would vote for the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Adonis.

The lesson of the past 16 months has been more than just how people have stepped up and been extremely helpful—the comment made about the broadcast team is particularly apposite. But I think it has had another effect: more of the staff of this House, and indeed Members, have understood some of the challenges for those who have a variety of disabilities—not being able to get off mute is one of the least of them. People have discovered that they really need help and support. While I am in favour of very limited external connectivity for those with severe disabilities, I make another appeal: those of us who want to be here on a regular basis, and can be because of the nature of our special needs, would welcome a bit more understanding and support, including continuity of support for assistance. There is no point in telling people that they should be here and then getting snooty, which has happened in the past. It happened in the Commons when I first entered it, and it does happen here. Some people really do not understand what the challenge is, because, like a good goalkeeper—I will not mention anything to do with Sunday night—when you save easily, it looks easy, but actually it is often very difficult indeed.

Finally, I welcome the changes very much, but I hope that in the future we will review perhaps how we can blend in, on the remaining business of Bills and Statements, the ability of Members to be named. It is extremely helpful for me to know, as it was just now, that it was my turn. I can count and quite often I can hear who the previous speaker was, but guessing that you have got it right is not too clever. The modest changes that I hope we will agree to today will take us a further step towards self-regulation that is underpinned by decency and common sense. If we get that right, we will have a greater degree of respect and a much better reputation outside this House.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, has withdrawn, so I call the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the things that was really noteworthy about the Procedure Committee report was this entirely novel way, as far as I can make out, of the House reaching decisions—that is, to have a kind of opinion poll before we reach our decisions. Under the normal procedures of the House, whether it is a Bill, a debate or anything else, you have the debate and then test the opinion of the House. In this system, it seems that you test the opinion of the House and then have the debate. That seems to me—well, I can think of some of rude ways of referring to it—to stand procedures on their head, and I am not sure that I like it. No doubt the Senior Deputy Speaker will be able to refer to this when he sums up.

But I will say this: if we are to have this kind of system in the future, my word, we need some ground rules—they certainly do not come out in the Procedure Committee’s report—about what kinds of decisions we test opinion on before the debate, and what kinds we do not. There are two contrasting examples of very important decisions that I can refer to: one is whether to have a speakers’ list for Oral Questions and the second is whether to change our sitting times, as my noble friend Lord Adonis referred to. The Procedure Committee dismisses the question of the House’s sitting times in just a sentence. The only justification it gives for testing the opinion of the House in the way that it has on speakers’ lists is because of “the divergent views” on the subject—but there are divergent views on every conceivable subject that ever comes before this House. If that is the only ground the Procedure Committee has to offer for having this system, it is a pretty poor basis.

There is a real problem with this way of making decisions, which the noble Lord, Lord Cormack, touched on. By the way, I very much sympathise with the amendment in the name of my noble friend Lord Adonis. In the five sitting days of the week—Monday to Friday—we have four different starting times, and the only two days that are the same are Monday and Tuesday. I cannot think of any other public-facing organisation that has four different kick-off times in five working days.

However, the other problem with having these kinds of pre-debate opinion polls is that most of these questions do not lend themselves to a binary decision—they are not a simple “this or that” question. I will be frank with the House: on the question of speakers’ lists, I do not like the system that was in operation prior to the Covid crisis. I have said so many times; I initiated a debate on it five years ago to say that the Lord Speaker should be the person to play a role in that. But I certainly do not like the idea of the lists being published in advance and continuing with that method. I would love that idea if I was still on the Government Front Bench. When you are there to answer questions at Question Time, it is an absolute joy if you know exactly who is going to ask them. You can generally, with reasonable accuracy, anticipate precisely what question they will ask. If you know the subject and the person asking the question, you know what the question will be, so it is a great benefit to the Government Front Bench.

Perhaps I should be more sympathetic to the other group to whom it is a great benefit, having been a Chief Whip: it is great news for the Whips. If it is not the Lord Speaker or randomness deciding, the party groups, one way or another, have to find a mechanism for determining who the questioners should be. When I was Chief Whip, I would have loved to have decided who among our side was going to ask the questions; quite a few would have been waiting quite a while for that opportunity. So, this system hands power to the Government Front Bench—to Ministers—in particular, and to Whips in general.

I do not like that system either but, of course, there is a third way—to coin a phrase—which is the suggestion of the noble Lord, Lord Balfe: we do the same as pretty much every assembly across the planet with procedures anything like our own does, and give some authority to the Lord Speaker. That authority has slowly accrued over the years since the post was established, to more or less universal agreement. We now actually have the Lord Speaker announcing business, and we have had, as my noble friend Lord Blunkett said, the Lord Speaker announcing who is going to speak next. I do not want there to be Stalinist control, but light-touch control from the Woolsack seems the best way of dealing with things. This was neither of the options on the ballot paper, if I can put it in those terms, when the House was consulted. I certainly support that amendment, and I really hope that the House can think again about the idea of a rigid speakers’ list.

One final point: a rigid speakers’ list is a huge change in our procedures. Since I have been here, every other major change in our procedures has always been introduced initially for a trial period, usually for six months, to test the water. If the House decides to go ahead with this system without accepting the amendment, which I hope does not happen, I feel very strongly that, after six months of operating with rigid speakers’ lists, we should have the opportunity to decide whether we want to make this permanent.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

I advise noble Lords that the speaking time is about five minutes.

Civil Procedure (Amendment No. 4) (Coronavirus) Rules 2020

Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Greengross [V]]

Yes, I have concluded.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

I remind noble Lords that the time limit is two minutes.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Kennedy of Cradley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the director of Generation Rent. I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, and the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, for tabling these Motions, both of which I support. Because of the pandemic, rent debt is piling up for thousands of renters. Yes, the Government have given welcome support, but the scale of the rent-debt crisis means that much more is needed. Rent arrears have doubled, and that is before the end of the furlough scheme. However, when the Government were asked what estimates they have made of the number of private renters in arrears as a result of the pandemic, they were unable to answer. Therefore, I ask the noble Earl to answer that question today.

In addition, will he agree to review why the Government do not collect data on the number of Section 1 notices served or how often different grounds for eviction are used, especially as Sections 21 and 8—ground 8—are mandatory grounds for eviction, over which judges need to be given discretion? Without this, the information on Covid-19 that the Government have asked to be supplied cannot be used to good effect. The lack of government data on private renters as regards evictions has led to gaps in support, such as the issue raised today by the noble Baroness, Lady Grender.

Yes, the Government have given a six-month notice period, but it applies only to renters giving notice from 29 August. If you were handed a notice before this date, the six-month extension does not apply. If reactivated, your eviction will progress. Therefore, will the noble Earl agree to review and remedy this gap in support?

In conclusion, the situation for many renters is as follows: if they have little or no income, or not enough benefits to cover their rent, what are they to do? The rent just cannot be paid. If you are then asked to leave your property by your landlord but have accumulated rent debt, how do you move on? How do you get a deposit for a new home? How do you find a landlord who will take you on? Unless the Government step in with additional legislative and financial support, which will help renters and landlords alike, homelessness is the only option for many renters with rent debt and eviction notices. I urge the Government to act.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Singh, is not with us, so I call the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle. Are you there? I call the noble Lord, Lord Whitty. Please unmute.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

Let us try the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, again. No? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Eaton.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

I declare my interests as recorded in the register. I wish to oppose the two Motions —in the names of the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, and the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby—before us today. From 21 September, courts can start to hear possession proceedings again. Since March, no landlord has had access to the courts to regain possession, even in cases where tenants have broken the law.

The effect of the Motion of the noble Baroness, Lady Grender, will be to reverse the ability of the courts to start hearing these cases. Surely, it is right that landlords can take action against tenants whose anti-social behaviour is causing misery to them and others, as well as those carrying out acts of domestic violence. Surely, it is also right that they are able to address situations where tenants have large arrears incurred before lockdown and in no way connected with the Covid-19 pandemic.

I know that all landlords have concern—rightly—for tenants badly affected by Covid-19. The Government’s rules provide a good balance between the rights and needs of the landlord and the needs of the tenants.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

Let us try the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, again. No? I call the noble Baroness, Lady Watkins of Tavistock.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Woolf (CB) [V]]

My Lords, this is not an area that I normally get involved in in this House. However, having read the papers which were available to me, I realised that there is a deep problem here. Sometimes it does not help to rush in with a solution that just involves depriving one set of people of all rights, as has been indicated by previous speakers. For that reason, and having looked at the statutory provisions, I would support the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, but only go that far.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, is with us.

Lord Speaker: Baroness Hayman

Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Bristol]

My Lords, bishops are used to bringing up the rear in formal processions. Today, I find myself bringing up the rear of a procession of worthy tributes to the work and character of the outgoing Lord Speaker, the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman. In consequence, I shall seek to avoid, as far as is seemly, hesitation, repetition or deviation.

It is with great pleasure and humility that I add my appreciation on behalf of these Benches to that expressed by others for the Lord Speaker as she retires from this role in your Lordships' House. On these Benches, we have been extremely grateful for all that she has so graciously and ably offered to the life of your Lordships’ House. Those charged with responsibility for convening the Lords spiritual have in particular been grateful for the Lord Speaker’s warmth, help and support. The present Convenor, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leicester, is deeply apologetic that he cannot be here today.

Our outgoing Lord Speaker has been an excellent ambassador for your Lordships’ House. In her work promoting overseas all that is good about your Lordships’ House, she has delivered with great imagination and diligence. Travel seems an increasingly wearisome business, yet the Lord Speaker showed herself willing to go wherever and whenever she could to promote your Lordships’ House. Her efforts in seeking to inspire and inform young people in understanding our work have found her again to be an exemplar. This has been a passion if not a healthy obsession. We are particularly grateful for her diligence in this.

At all times, the Lord Speaker has attempted to inform and communicate with your Lordships on matters of concern and interest. In this, the Lord Speaker has again achieved a high standard. Her hosting of a series of seminars, including recently one on the interaction between religion and politics, is but one example of her willingness to engage with issues of significance by using her office to create a thoughtful and impressive space for the airing of pressing current issues. As has been said, she will be the proverbial hard act to follow. With your Lordships, we on these Benches look forward to welcoming and working with the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, in her newly elected role.

To conclude, on behalf of these Benches I am more than happy to add our heartfelt thanks and appreciation to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, the former Lord Speaker, for her efforts on our behalf since she was elected in 2006. We wish her well and hope that, free from the responsibilities that she has so willingly and ably borne, she will enjoy her retirement from this particular role and, who knows, have a little extra time on her hands for family and friends—of whom she has many, not least in your Lordships’ House. We look forward to the noble Baroness’s continued contributions from the Benches of your Lordships’ House, from which I am certain that we will undoubtedly continue to benefit.

[Lord Brougham and Vaux]

My Lords, as the longest-serving Deputy Speaker, may I say, on behalf of all Deputy Speakers, that we would like to be associated with the tributes paid to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, from all sides of the House? It was a great pleasure working with her and we look forward to working with the new Lord Speaker.

[Lord Haskel]

My Lords, I have had the honour and privilege of working as one of the noble Baroness’s deputies for five years. During that time, she was genuinely concerned about her deputies. She worried about whether we got home on time or had had something to eat if the House sat late. Never since I was a teenager has somebody worried about that on my behalf. I am most thankful to her and look forward to working with the new Lord Speaker.

Strategic Defence and Security Review

Lord Brougham and Vaux Excerpts

Tuesday 19th October 2010 Lords Chamber

[Noble Lords]

Time. Order!

[Lord Brougham and Vaux]

I should like to say a few words in the gap before the noble Lord, Lord McKenzie—

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

This is a self-regulating House. Why can we not collectively decide on such an important Statement not to limit ourselves to 20 minutes but to have 40 minutes so that all noble Lords who want to ask questions can be permitted to do so?