Northern Ireland Protocol Bill

Lord Birt Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 11th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I start by observing that today’s debate has seen the House of Lords at its very best, all sides expressing their arguments with force and conviction. We were particularly privileged to hear the blunt political appraisal of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Clarke of Nottingham, and my noble friend Lord Bew’s intense and passionate plea to the DUP—I hope they heed it.

Like many others, I am fundamentally opposed to this Bill. Echoing my noble friend Lord Kerr, I oppose it for four reasons. First, as has been commonly observed throughout this debate, the Bill is unlawful. The whole weight of legal opinion is that the protocol cannot be overturned under the doctrine of necessity. The unexpected duo of my noble friend Lord Pannick and the noble Lord, Lord Howard, argued that case with ferocious persuasiveness. They are supported by a former head of the Government’s own legal department, who described the Government’s defence of it as “hopeless”, and that surely represents the consensus.

Acting unlawfully is not just wrong but, as others have observed, gravely damaging to the UK’s reputation internationally. Following the death of Her late Majesty the Queen, virtually the whole world was reminded of the power and, indeed, majesty of our constitutional settlement; of Britain’s path-finding route to democracy; of our solemn, centuries-long commitment to the rule of law. The rest of the world made perfectly clear during our period of national mourning just how much they respected us and admired that tradition. The calamitous mini-Budget has done untold damage to the UK’s reputation for fiscal probity. Please, may we not further sully our reputation by breaching a solemn and long-negotiated international treaty.

Secondly, the Bill is deeply offensive to Parliament, conferring as it does breathtaking delegated powers for Ministers to override much of the protocol without Parliament’s express consent.

Thirdly, passing the Bill will damage our relations with the EU when we should be doing everything possible to repair them after the bruising experience of Brexit. Overturning the protocol risks retaliatory action, affecting trade with our closest neighbour, our principal trading partner and one of the world’s largest economic blocs, with six times our GDP. A trade spat with the EU would certainly be a further blow to UK growth.

Fourthly, beyond trade, Putin’s anarchic bellicosity has driven home just how important it is for Europe to stick together, not least because history tells us that we will not always have a President in the White House as ready to defend Europe as Joe Biden.

Northern Ireland is where the Brexit rubber hits the road. Maintaining an open border with the Republic while exiting the EU was and is an enormous challenge, well explained by my noble friend Lord Jay and eloquently by the noble Lords, Lord Dodds and Lord Browne. There are real difficulties and they need to be addressed.

The Good Friday agreement was an enormous achievement, as the noble Lord, Lord Godson, just reminded us. Ultimately, it is a credit not just to Tony Blair but to all the sides involved, and we will find a solution to the conundrum of Brexit in Northern Ireland, which we must resolve, only by repeating that process of dialogue—not least with the patently well-intentioned participation of the Irish Government. Of course, the DUP must have a place at the table, but I gently urge the DUP to remember that 56% of the people of Northern Ireland voted in the referendum to remain in the EU, and that a clear majority of the Northern Ireland Assembly have declared themselves content in principle with the protocol, so the DUP must be ready to give and take too.

This Government are now very practised at U-turns. I express the hope that they will soon withdraw this highly destabilising Bill and choose instead the path of negotiation and reconciliation.

Probation Reform

Lord Birt Excerpts

Thursday 16th May 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I acknowledge that under the present scheme we have seen instances of excessive caseloads being placed upon probation officers, and we are concerned to address that issue. Equally, we are concerned to ensure that appropriate contact between probation and the persons to be released from prison can be achieved. I entirely concur with the noble Lord’s observation about the need to ensure that probation works in an effective manner, such that we can instil in both the courts and the public a confidence in non-custodial sentences. That is one of the objectives we have in mind with regard to these reforms.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as my wife was the founding director-general of the National Probation Service. The Minister is surely right to observe that it was a vast improvement on the hotchpotch of arrangements that had preceded it. I welcome the Government’s Statement; first, because it is entirely right that the state should take back full responsibility for managing all offenders; it is right too—and here I disagree with the Opposition Benches—that both the private and voluntary sectors should continue to provide specialist services to the NPS. Secondly, I welcome the Statement because of the Secretary of State’s willingness to reverse an error. That genuinely took courage and is to be applauded.

[Lord Keen of Elie]

I am obliged to the noble Lord for his observations and insight into the initial transformation that we brought about. I recognise, as he does, that there were deficiencies in that, which is why we proceeded with the consultation and have put forward these proposals for further reform.

Cairncross Review

Lord Birt Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2019 Lords Chamber

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I spent much of my career in broadcast journalism in a period characterised by high-volume, high-quality journalism, well resourced both in broadcast and in print. There is still some good journalism in all media, but let us recognise that the bus left long ago and that there has been a vast reduction in the volume of quality journalism and a vast reduction in the necessary resources that are always needed to produce journalism of high quality.

In the last hour or so I have quickly scanned this ambitious report with its far-reaching conclusions and recommendations, not all of which immediately strike me as right. I echo what the noble Lord, Lord McNally, said. There are few matters as important for this House as those set out in this report, and this issue cannot be dealt with here in a few moments of questions and answers—so I too ask the Government to consider setting aside a serious and substantial amount of time to deal at length and properly with these issues.

Brexit: Negotiations

Lord Birt Excerpts

Tuesday 20th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, as a country we are split right down the middle. There is an unbridgeable divide between, on the one hand, passionate nationalists craving freedom and independence and, on the other, those who for reasons of culture, security and prosperity want the UK to remain at the heart of Europe. Those divisions have thus far haunted the whole process of negotiating an agreement with the EU, a process that began with the shooting of the most capable messenger around, Sir Ivan Rogers. The European negotiating terrain was always going to be challenging as we came face to face with fervent belief in Brussels in the European ideal and with the understandable self-confidence of the world’s most powerful economic bloc outside the United States.

Whatever you think of the withdrawal agreement, its application is temporary. The more critical document, the accompanying political declaration covering future relations for the next period of our history, is skimpy and, oddly, full of sentences without verbs. It falls far short of being a framework. Even if the declaration is only in essence an agreed agenda, though, the sense of it is at least positive. Its import is of a Britain that has only ever been half in the EU moving to a point where it will only be half out. The line in the declaration that there will be no tariffs, fees or quotas for goods offers a ray of hope, even if none of it is agreed and working through that monumental agenda within two years is a very tall order indeed.

Any deal of complexity in any walk of life involving multiple parties requires compromise and will leave everyone involved—including me, in this instance—uncomfortable with many aspects of what has been agreed. Taken in the round, this agreement is preferable to a car-crash Brexit in a few months’ time, with the shock to our economy and social harmony that that would trigger. If, however, as seems likely, the House of Commons fails to endorse this deal—if, indeed, it is unable to muster a majority for any option—the only way forward at that point would be to put back to the people the triple choice of leaving on WTO rules, accepting the deal or remaining in the EU. After years of bad-tempered debate and disunity, we should then accept the better informed choice of the British people and make the very best of whichever option they finally decide to take.

Probation Service

Lord Birt Excerpts

Thursday 14th December 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Keen of Elie]

My Lords, I am perfectly happy to endorse the observations made by the noble Lord. Had I been asked about that point earlier, I would have responded in the same way.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as the spouse of the founding director-general of the National Probation Service. This is a devastating report and the Minister will find some of the statistics that he is unaware of in it. These reforms were ill framed and speedily and poorly implemented. Does the Minister accept that it is time to go back to the drawing board?

[Lord Keen of Elie]

We do not accept that it is necessary to go back to the drawing board. It is, however, necessary to address the shortcomings in the delivery by CRCs. That is what we are in the course of doing.

Queen’s Speech

Lord Birt Excerpts

Wednesday 28th June 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, we are mired in crisis. Our economy, our public finances, our Brexit negotiating leverage and our Government are all weak, not strong. The causes of this run deep. The UK was ill prepared for the sharp global shock of 2008. After a period of overoptimism in our public finances and of inadequate financial regulation, our cupboard was bare. So nearly 10 years later, we are still borrowing. We have the fourth-highest deficit of 35 advanced economies and are projected not to reach surplus till 2025. Everything and everyone have been affected by our massive reversal of fortune.

Public funding is constrained, and services are stretched. The average British worker will earn less in real terms in 2021 than in 2008. Our currency has declined in value, and inflation is rising. We are now the worst-performing economy in the G7. Interest rates may soon rise and put a further burden on government finances. Meanwhile, our productivity remains stubbornly low, and we feel the pinch of decades of underinvestment in infrastructure. We have not, in recent times, governed ourselves well as a country.

Against this unhappy backdrop, the decision was taken to hold a referendum. During the referendum campaign, neither of our main parties, for quite different reasons, laid bare the full consequences of leaving the EU. Laying disaster on disaster, an election, held to strengthen the Government’s hand in the Brexit negotiations, has fatally weakened it. During the election campaign, there was still no meaningful debate about the Brexit options, nor about the parlous state of our economy or the interplay between the two; rather, as we know, populism ruled. An electorate understandably dispirited by austerity were told what they wanted to hear rather than exposed to unwelcome realities.

Moreover, neither main party showed any respect for, or understanding of, the real economy, which is the motor of our prosperity. The dazzling professionals from around the world who populate our financial and corporate sectors were offensively dubbed “citizens of nowhere”. The Opposition, on the other hand, threatened to raise corporation tax, and further to set the highest tax burden the UK has known for 30 years, on the very eve of Brexit—at just the moment when we need to lure business and talent to stay in the UK, not to frighten them away. When we most needed a mature debate about Britain’s future, we failed to have one.

The British people voted for Brexit, and it must be delivered. But they did not vote for any particular form of Brexit, and they will not thank anyone if a cliff-edge Brexit provokes a deepening and ever-extending austerity and long-term relative impoverishment. None of my noble friend Lord Bird’s drinking friends, on either side of the argument, will welcome that. Our highest priority in these negotiations must be—as so many have said in one form or another—free, frictionless trade with what is by far the world’s biggest economic bloc. To achieve that, we will have to come to our senses and compromise on any number of matters, but above all perhaps on immigration.

It is absurd to define students as immigrants. We cannot denude business of some of the world’s best talents. It is not remotely clear who will work in our care homes or pick our strawberries if we stick to the Government’s declared targets for net migration. Let us also face up to the fact that our economy and our public finances are not remotely healthy enough to withstand the shock of a cliff-edge Brexit.

The Government are in power but without a mandate. The forces of moderation and realism on all sides in both Houses of Parliament must now come together, not to frustrate Brexit but to ensure that the effective functioning of our economy is our prime consideration, and that our exit is graduated. That is surely the spirit of this eloquent debate and that is the message that I hope the Minister will take away tonight.

Sky and 21st Century Fox: Proposed Merger

Lord Birt Excerpts

Monday 6th March 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the clarity and emphasis in the Secretary of State’s Statement. I fear some may argue, “Never mind the quality, feel the width”: that there are, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, mentioned, many new centres of news on social media and in other places, but it is important to remember that news in the UK, whether print news or broadcast, is facing financial adversity. We see cuts on all sides and a diminution in the quality of our journalism. Does the Minister accept that these criteria need to be applied when considering this matter?

[Lord Puttnam (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble and learned Lord for repeating the Statement, which is for the most part very welcome. Not frivolously at all, the two criteria the Secretary of State has chosen are precisely those for which all-party amendments have been put down for the Digital Economy Bill. I have a question relating to each of them.

The first is on media plurality. As the noble Lord, Lord McNally, has just said, it has been 14 years since we first raised this important issue. Everyone wants plurality and agrees that it is a very good idea, but at that time, we needed a framework. I apologise if the frustration is showing in my voice, but I and many others have sought agreement on that framework on repeated occasions. Ofcom was eventually asked to create a report on that, which was published as the Measurement Framework for Media Plurality on 5 November 2015, but there has been no response from the Government. Interestingly enough, the Secretary of State, in her long letter on Friday, said that one of her issues was that, before a decision could be made, there was a,

“need for qualitative assessment and perhaps further factual inquiries”.

The whole purpose of our current amendments is to help this Secretary of State and any future Secretary of State in making these judgments, based on evidence and on an agreed framework. Therefore, surely it is incumbent on the Government to make it clear that they will seek such a framework and, if necessary, wait until after these amendments have hopefully been approved by this House, and then accept them. That is what we are seeking.

The other issue, as the noble Lord, Lord Stevenson, said, is the fit and proper person test. I have looked carefully at this, because I believe we are making this unnecessarily difficult. Media companies are not football clubs, and in fact there is a very good definition set out by the Financial Conduct Authority, which covers,

“honesty (including openness with self-disclosures, integrity and reputation) … competence and capability … financial soundness”.

Can the noble Lord tell me whether there is any reason whatever why we should not adopt the Financial Conduct Authority’s definition in the Bill?

Digital Economy Bill

Lord Birt Excerpts

Committee: 4th sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 8th February 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Gordon of Strathblane (Lab)]

My Lords, I cannot work up the same sort of enthusiasm for the statutory underpinning of the BBC. Although I deplore interference with the running of the BBC and the licence fee, and welcome the promises of better behaviour in future in the recent licence settlement, it seems to me that statutory underpinning creates a platform for statutory interference as well, which could be a lot more dangerous. Things are run quite well and we now have a royal charter that will last for 11 years. That gives us time to reflect on possible changes at some point in the next 11 years—but certainly not at the moment.

[Lord Birt (CB)]

My Lords, I accept that I have a special interest, but I have yet to be bored by the noble Lord, Lord Lester, on this matter. Indeed, I applaud his tenacity and hard work. The day this House discussed the royal charter was the lowest day in all my time in the House. It was a particularly distinguished debate, and there was a wide consensus on all sides that the charter was inappropriate. I do not plan to rehearse the arguments that I made on that day again, but there was wide agreement that, although we had all long believed that the charter was the right way of governing the BBC—I certainly believed that when I was the director-general—we had learned the hard way that it was not.

The royal prerogative is simply archaic; it flows from our history, with its origins in medieval times. Its shortcomings have just been unfolding in the Supreme Court; it has been found wanting there. That was a low day for me because, despite consensus across the House, the Government did not give an inch. I do not expect them to do so today. However, the good thing about this debate and about what the noble Lord, Lord Lester, and his colleagues are doing is that it puts this issue firmly on the agenda. If it is not won today, I predict that it will be won one day. The BBC simply has to be put on a statutory basis.

[Lord Wood of Anfield (Lab)]

My Lords, I should declare that my wife works at Ofcom, so I have an interest of some relation to the BBC. These amendments are crucial to an issue we all care about: the independence of the BBC and ensuring it is not compromised. The Government may protest that they have no intention of compromising the BBC’s independence—I am sure they do not—but I know from the debate and from many conversations over the past few months that I was not alone in being alarmed by the initial proposal floated last year that the Government would appoint a majority of members of the new BBC unitary board, replacing the BBC Trust. I am pleased to say that the Government seem to have moved away from that proposal in response to concerns expressed in this House and elsewhere.

But concerns remain. For one thing, we discovered last week just how close the Government intend still to remain to Rupert Murdoch’s companies, whose hostility to the BBC is well known. Senior executives from Murdoch-owned companies met the Prime Minister or Chancellor 10 times last year—more than any other media organisation. In the past 18 months, News Corp executives had 20 meetings with senior government representatives, 18 of which were with the Prime Minister, Chancellor or Culture Secretary, seven involving Rupert Murdoch himself, whose views on the BBC are very clear. Quite what was discussed in these meetings we do not know, but I would be astonished if complaints about the BBC were not raised repeatedly.

As the noble Lord, Lord Lester, eloquently set out, threats to the BBC’s independence come in much more subtle forms. The combination of financial constraint plus extra responsibilities has been a long-standing part of the Government’s relationship with the BBC. I worked for Gordon Brown as Prime Minister; we did a bit of that as well. But, as the noble Lord mentioned, in this new charter the Government have raised their sights and shifted more than £500 million-worth of responsibility for licence fees for the over-75s without allocating a single penny to support it. This process of shifting responsibility for government policy on to the BBC while tightening the purse strings even further, and, presumably, reserving the right to complain when the BBC revisits the viability of these commitments, is a serious threat to the autonomy of the BBC. We should be on our guard against it.

When it comes to the new unitary board, I agree with the spirit and content of the amendments. It is important that we have a transparent process to ensure a genuinely independent board. The Government’s current proposal on composition risks lining up a slate of government appointees against a slate of BBC appointees, aiming for some kind of internal balance rather than ensuring real independence for the board as a whole. It is also vital, as the noble Lord, Lord Lester, set out, that we have clarity on the terms of appointment to the new board.

We need only look at other countries in the European Union to see the dangers that can quickly arise when the independence of public broadcasters is compromised. For example, last year the Polish Government assumed the right to appoint the heads of state broadcasting authorities and removed the guarantees for independence of public service TV and radio, in breach of Council of Europe norms and the Polish constitution. We are a long way from being Poland in this respect, thank goodness, but the combination of governance change, political pressure from rival organisations, financial pressure and the temptation to offload policy commitments on to the shoulders of the BBC provide a real threat to autonomy and independence. It is right to err on the side of vigilance and caution in the spirit of this group of amendments.

I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response. We on these Benches will then take a view about how to work with others across the House on the issues raised, including this debate, which, as the noble Lord, Lord Birt, just said, will become more and more live, about whether it is time to put the BBC’s independence on a statutory basis.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Ashton of Hyde) (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate and in particular to the noble Lord, Lord Lester. He mentioned that he remained optimistic. When he spoke to me outside the Chamber, he said that he was “pathetically optimistic”. I would prefer to say that he is “characteristically determined”. He has produced argument after argument, not only in the BBC charter renewal debates, but also at Second Reading. I fear I may disappoint him yet again. I am sad that some of his supporters are not here.

We return to an issue which we have debated at length as part of the recent discussions on the BBC’s royal charter which were completed last year. The new royal charter was sealed on 8 December. Amendments 217, 218, 219, 229A and 234, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Lester, seek to constrain future BBC royal charters through statute. I note and acknowledge that the noble Lord has made a number of changes to his amendments in the areas of parliamentary votes over future charters and governance. I appreciate the thought he has put into this and the dialogue we have had so far. In a skilled way, he has set a number of questions, some of which I will try to answer. He is right to say that whether we should have statutory underpinning for the royal charter is an issue of principle. He asked whether statutory underpinning was possible and legitimate. As he knows full well, because he almost answered my question for me, I agree that it is possible, and sometimes legitimate—but not always.

There remain some very serious, potential dangers associated with the noble Lord’s amendments and we cannot, therefore, support them. These amendments restrain future royal charters and funding settlements. Let me talk about two specific examples where this is problematic. On the subject of appointments, these amendments hardwire a unitary board into legislation. While we may now believe that we have found the best solution to the BBC’s governance, it is not guaranteed that we will still believe this in 10 years. As the last 10 years have shown, while governance arrangements can be drawn up with the best of intentions, these can prove unsatisfactory in practice. The new charter replaces the BBC Trust, which has been widely regarded as a failed model, and it is right that we should be able to address this in future.

The noble Lord, Lord Wood, and other noble Lords, talked about the independence of the board. I cannot see that the structure that we have reached in the royal charter can be criticised in this respect. At the moment, there are 14 members of the board, including five non-execs appointed by the BBC, four executives appointed by the BBC and four members, one for each nation, who need to be approved by the devolved assemblies. The Government have hardly got undue influence there. They are all appointed following a fair and open competition. Candidates for the chair must have a pre-appointment hearing by the Culture, Media and Sport Committee. If a change in this composition were required, an Act of Parliament would have to be amended, with the party-political debate, tactical pressure and uncertain legislative timetable that this would entail. This is not the right vehicle to make sure that the BBC can be governed effectively. Charter review remains the right vehicle—one that affords ample opportunity for debate and consultation, but also one that allows for effective decision-making and, crucially, a negotiated agreement with the BBC.

The second serious problem concerns the part of the noble Lord’s amendment which specifies that the licence fee needs to rise in line with inflation, or at a rate greater than inflation if the board recommends this, in perpetuity. This provision is not in the licence fee payer’s best interest: it sets the wrong incentives for the BBC to continue to strive to be efficient and to provide the high-quality programming that audiences expect and deserve. The BBC should continue to make efforts to increase efficiency and value for money for its audiences. This is something that the licence fee payer should be able to expect. A guaranteed income which keeps on rising is not the way to ensure this.

Furthermore, we must remember that the licence fee is a tax. It should therefore be possible for the Government of the day to ask the BBC, as is the case for every other public body, to contribute to lightening the pressures on public spending or the taxpayer’s purse, if the circumstances require it or when public spending priorities change. The noble Viscount, Lord Colville, and the noble Lord, Lord Wood, referred to the so-called raid and the cut in the licence fee income. The licence fee has been frozen at £145.50 since 2010. We will end this freeze and increase the licence fee in line with inflation to 2021-22.

[Lord Birt]

Does the Minister agree that in future, in the event that the Government interfere, as they have done twice in recent years, and require the BBC to spend its licence funding in some other way, it would be appropriate for Parliament to discuss that before the measure goes forward?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

I will come to that. Of course, future Governments will have to make their own arrangements in negotiations with the BBC. The BBC licence fee is a tax. Of course, the Chancellor of the Exchequer and the elected Government have a say in how taxes are raised and spent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

What I am hoping will happen is that Lord Hall of Liverpool—the director-general—will meet Ministers himself. He has been quoted in particular ways now and I will not attribute any views to him, because that would jeopardise the independence of the BBC, but I very much hope that he will meet the Secretary of State and explain privately what he thinks about these issues. From my point of view, as a would-be midwife, all I am trying to do is create a framework of principles which do not have any of the detrimental effects that the Minister has pointed to. I will seek to do that, and I hope that it will not be necessary on Report to divide the House. I am optimistic enough to believe that a thinking, open-minded Government in discussion with the BBC could come up with some statutory underpinning that would give a framework of principles without these detrimental effects. On that basis, I shall withdraw this amendment and will not pursue others in the group.

[Lord Birt]

Before the noble Lord sits down, I wonder if I might remind him that it is “Lord Wood of Anfield” and “Lord Birt, of Liverpool”, but “Lord Hall of Birkenhead”. It is very much on the other side of the Mersey.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Lester of Herne Hill]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Best, for his amendment. I agree with the object, but not the means. In fact there are not three but four options open to the Minister. The first, and most pathetically moderate, is of course my original one in Amendment 219, where I borrowed from the way that we deal with judicial salaries and revenue by proposing in new subsections (9) and (10) that “the board”—that is to say, the BBC board—

“must publish a recommendation to the Secretary of State on the amount of funding that the Secretary of State should make available”.

This is on the basis that the BBC should know best what it needs. Then the Secretary of State publishes,

“a response to each recommendation made under subsection (9)”.

If this is rejected, we are in a completely hopeless position so far as this subject is concerned.

My problem with the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Best, is that it is a bit odd to give the regulator the function of recommending an increase in the licence fee. That is why I have produced Amendment 222A to create an independent body—the licence fee commission. The disadvantage of this is that we do not like creating a whole lot of new bodies unless there is some very important reason. Then the noble Lords, Lord Stevenson of Balmacara and Lord Wood of Anfield, have a more modest way of achieving the same thing: they would have a BBC licence fee commission to do it. Those are, I think, the four options. My own view is that the Government should now accept one of them or come up with a formula of their own that we can agree on Report. I am optimistic that this will happen, so I am now watching this space with great enthusiasm—and suspense.

[Lord Birt]

My Lords, I support the drift of the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Best; I think that we need a proper, open, rigorous and transparent means of setting the level of the licence fee.

A little bit of history is that we did have a commission in the late 1990s, when the then Government appointed Gavyn Davies, a very distinguished economist and later chairman of the BBC, to do just that. As you would expect, he produced a searching, rigorous report. A further little bit of history is that he made a recommendation, and the Secretary of State, as you expect in politics, lowered the recommendation; as you do not expect, it went to No. 10, and the then Prime Minister not only upped his Secretary of State but recommended a level for the licence fee which was higher than that which Gavyn Davies recommended. It was the famous RPI plus 1.5% for seven years settlement, which allowed the BBC fully to enter the digital age. It was the process that Gavyn Davies led that enabled the Prime Minister to make a considered judgment.

However it is done, that body needs to look at the total environment. The most important issue in British broadcasting today, barely discussed at all, is the long-term decline of UK production. It is not going up; it is going down. It is going down because of the economic position of ITV and Channel 4. Any discussion of the level of the licence fee should look not only at the BBC but at the totality of the broadcasting production environment in the UK.

Some suggest that the licence fee should be linked to the RPI. There can, from time to time, be good reasons for that. I think that, strategically, it should be linked to GDP. The BBC performs a fundamental role in society, like the Armed Forces. We have a view of GDP and the investment we should make in the rest of the world; we should have a view in relation to GDP of how much we invest in our most important public service broadcaster. When GDP is stretched, as it has been over the past 10 years—though, thankfully, it is going up again—and if the country’s economy is suffering a reverse, then the BBC’s revenues should go down. If the country is prospering, so should the BBC—so should society’s investment in its most important public service broadcaster.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD)]

I add my support to these amendments and also pay my respect to the noble Lord, Lord Best, who so ably chaired the Communications Committee, of which I was a member, and produced this report. As everyone in this debate has said, a greater level of transparency must be introduced into the setting of the licence fee. Never again can there be backroom deals.

What these amendments seek to achieve is that in future there will be clarity and public scrutiny. The public, after all, pay the licence fees. These are moderate proposals which will rightly leave an elected Government with the final say in determining the BBC’s revenue, but introduce an important element of accountability into the process, which is surely appropriate for such a vital national institution. There is obviously room for debate as to which body oversees this process, but I hope that the noble Lord agrees that there should be a more open and transparent process.