Outcome of the European Union Referendum

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2016 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the first political meeting that I attended was as a teenager in 1968 to hear an erudite but rather dry speaker extol the virtues of the Common Market. His arguments, but even more so the wartime experiences of my father and grandfather, clinched my support for entering the Common Market. My father had seen action at Monte Cassino and in the north African desert, his brother was killed in the RAF, and their father had been in the Flanders trenches and later in Mesopotamia and the Holy Land. Siegfried Sassoon’s Great War poetry, read in Picardy last week under leaden skies, 100 years after 20,000 British and Empire soldiers lost their lives on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, vividly recalls those catastrophic events. Sadly, another generation later, such powerful and shocking patriotic experiences seem to have lost much of their resonance.

My support for what became the European Community was also inspired by Europe’s founding fathers: Adenauer, Schuman, Monnet and de Gasperi, who were shaped by their own harrowing wartime experiences at the hands of Nazism and fascism. They were Christian humanists who believed in subsidiarity, solidarity, the promotion of the common good, social justice and reconciliation. It was for those reasons that in 1975, as a young local politician in Liverpool, I campaigned for Britain to stay in the Community, and 67% of the British people agreed.

In the intervening years, what went wrong and what has changed? By 2007, the Community had morphed into a Union and that year I spoke against the Lisbon treaty, because I do not believe in a centralised European superstate, replete with a common currency—so disastrous for countries such as Greece—a European army, or its other trappings. One size does not fit all and is contrary to subsidiarity.

Although I, along with my family, voted to remain in the European Union, it was clear to me that there would be a win for the leave campaign. This was confirmed when I chaired a public debate in Lancashire a week before the vote. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, reminded us about the problems of binary choices; I could not help thinking that if a third option had been available on the ballot paper I would have voted to remain and reform. Binary choices are by definition narrow, when most things in life are invariably more complicated and subtle. Similarly, in Scotland a third option of devo-max—rather than independence or status quo—would have united rather than divided. If we are to have more referenda we should think far more carefully about the questions we ask.

Just before the vote, someone close to me said she did not know anyone who was voting leave. That comment graphically illustrates how dangerously separated and divided our country has become—it is not only on the London Underground that we need to mind the gap. But the spectre of inequality referred to by the most reverend Primate reminds us that not just gaps but chasms are opening up in society. We need to understand that many people feel powerless, disaffected and angry. Many of them are from northern towns and live in poorer communities, dangerously disconnected from the political classes. It would be disingenuous beyond belief to caricature or dismiss all those who voted for Brexit as xenophobes or racists. I say that as someone whose mother was an immigrant whose first language was Irish, and who greatly prizes this nation’s diversity. But let me also be clear that the scapegoating and hate-mongering, and the deployment of poisonous xenophobic arguments not seen since the days of Peter Griffiths, will have long-term consequences for community cohesion. It is much easier to summon up the tempest than to quell it, and to call up the furies than dismiss them. In this respect I echo the remarks made throughout your Lordships’ House. The Government need to act immediately to make it clear that people settled here will not be weaponised in the coming negotiations. Failure to do so will further poison our world.

Many of the votes cast were angry votes. That anger, fuelled by a scepticism about Europe’s failure to deal with a mass migration of terrified people, was hardly assuaged by Jean-Claude Juncker’s arrogance in telling us just days before this tumultuous referendum that however we voted it would not make any difference. The Junckerism seems to be catching. The noble Lord, Lord Heseltine, said unwisely last week that, “There has to be a way to resist public opinion”. It is bad enough that millions of our poorer citizens believe that the establishment has become impervious to their fate, but it would be unbelievably dangerous to tell 17.5 million people that they will be resisted and not listened to. The key to the future is surely to be found in Article 50, which specifically requires the European Union to listen to an exiting member and, in the words of the article, to take,

“account of the framework for its future relationship”.

This crisis must now be used to create a range of new relationships at every level, perhaps modelled for instance on the EU framework programmes such as Horizon 2020, which is so important to UK science. Switzerland, Israel and Norway are all part of Horizon 2020, but of course are not part of the European Union. It is imperative that political paralysis does not delay work in forging such relationships. These are urgent questions and the Government simply cannot go into hibernation. Skilful negotiators will need wise heads, steely nerves and steady hands to see whether within the framework of subsidiarity, solidarity and the common good we can create new opportunities to live together amicably. We owe it to those who bought our own and Europe’s freedoms with their blood and their lives. We also owe it to all those who now feel marginalised or fearful for their own futures.

Syria: UK Military Action

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the just war tradition insists that war must always be a last resort—a necessary evil in an imperfect world. Measured against the just war criteria, the Government’s case is undoubtedly strong but there are legitimate questions to ask. Let us take two of the criteria: a just cause and prospects of success. Is the cause just? Self-evidently, ISIS’s barbaric ideology is the antithesis of everything that a free society upholds and stands for. We will need a full-spectrum strategy to deal with it, and I welcome the references in the Commons Motion to non-military action.

How can we entrench in the popular imagination the justice of military action and the justice of the cause? For months in your Lordships’ House I have pressed the Government to formally declare the actions of ISIS in Syria as genocide. Our obligations are set out in the preamble to the sixth recital of the 1998 Rome statute of the International Criminal Court, which recalls that,

“it is the duty of every State to exercise its criminal jurisdiction over those responsible for international crimes”,

while the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide states that the obligation each state thus has to prevent and to punish the crime of genocide is not territorially limited by the convention.

I recently chaired a meeting in Parliament attended by Syrians and the Archbishop of Aleppo. We were told how, in a village outside Aleppo, ISIS cut the tops off the fingers of a 14 year-old boy because his Christian father refused to convert. They then crucified the boy and killed the father. At the weekend, a mass grave of Yazidis was uncovered near Sinjar. Months ago, a former Yazidi MP, speaking here, said that she could not understand why the West had not declared these events a genocide.

In the battle of ideas, the rule of law is the best antidote to ISIS. Capturing and holding those responsible for these atrocities—whether in Syria, Paris, Tunisia, the Sinai or elsewhere—would underline the justice of our actions, and the declaration of genocide should have preceded further military action. We should name this for what it is.

My other question concerns the probability of success. Drones and Tornados have never captured anyone. I regret the phrase in the Government Motion in the Commons ruling out the use of ground forces. Without a commitment to an international ground force, as in Kuwait or the Balkans, I remain unconvinced about the probability of success and disturbed that Parliament is being asked to believe a Panglossian figure of 70,000 so-called moderate fighters in Syria. This is no army: it represents a kaleidoscope of opinions, objectives and capability; they are split into a hundred factions and are geographically spread across Syria. Unlike the Peshmerga and SDF alliance, made up of Kurds, Arabs and Syriacs, which has taken 1,300 square kilometres from ISIS in northern Syria and which I have repeatedly pressed the Government to support—and do so again today—this dodgy figure of 70,000 will not provide a ground force capable of ensuring success. When the Minister comes to reply, I hope that he will tell us what additional support will be given to the SDF.

Western air strikes in Syria cannot succeed without ground forces. In a Question that I tabled yesterday, I asked the Minister to give us his assessment of the statement by General Sir Richard Shirreff that even a force of that size—of 70,000—would be incapable of liberating a city of 350,000 people such as Raqqa. On this question hangs the just war principle of “probability of success.” It also begs the post-Iraq question which hangs over the debate: what plan is in place for the aftermath once the bombing is over? What is the end game? I ask the Minister to address these specific questions.

To express doubt or scepticism is not to be confused with either appeasement or an unwillingness to fight.

Syria: Refugees

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Wednesday 10th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister told us that there are 3.2 million refugees in the region. The generosity of countries such as Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and Turkey contrasts with the lack of generosity of many other countries. Although Her Majesty’s Government have been generous with humanitarian aid, the number of vulnerable refugees—90—that the Minister mentioned to the House today is in stark contrast to that figure of 3.2 million. Only yesterday in Geneva, as the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, mentioned, the UN specifically asked that 130,000 should be accepted by developed countries. Will the noble Lord tell us what we are going to do to try to reach that target? We are now in the depths of winter, and groups such as the Yazidis and the other minorities that we have all followed over these past months are in freezing conditions. What are we doing to ensure that they are given additional humanitarian relief?

[Lord Ashton of Hyde]

The noble Lord is right to highlight these issues. We take this very seriously and approach it in the way that we think is the best way of approaching it; that is, that humanitarian aid in the region is the best way of doing it. We accept that for very vulnerable people in special circumstances we can provide help in this country, but we think that providing £700 million to the region is the most effective way of providing our humanitarian aid, which will help people in that area. It provides basic things such as water and food, which can help the largest numbers of people, and it complements the UN’s programme because we take the people into this country that it suggests to us and we provide money in the area to deal with the people directly on the ground.

Iraq

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Friday 26th September 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, since March 2011 more than 150,000 people have died in Syria, 6.2 million people have been displaced and there are currently more than 1 million children who are refugees. Thanks to the depredations of ISIL, added to that number are 1.8 million people who have been displaced in Iraq. That clearly cannot be left unchecked. However, it would be hard to imagine that a campaign of aerial bombardment alone would make that dire situation any better. That is why this House is right to caution that we must proceed with our eyes wide open and that we need a comprehensive strategy.

We must be particularly wary of the law of unintended consequences, especially by providing cover for the Assad regime to consolidate its position. Only yesterday it boasted that it had seized back a number of villages, while our eyes were on ISIL. There can be little doubt, as we attack ISIL command centres, that its insurgents will hide in civilian settings. Every time a cruise or Brimstone missile hits the wrong target and kills non-combatants, yet more fighters will be radicalised and recruited to its cause.

However brave and better armed the Kurdish Peshmerga and Free Syrian Army may be—we had better hope, this time, the arms we provide do not fall into the hands of ISIL—endless air strikes and drone warfare will not achieve our objectives. We must be wary of the danger of assuming that the old proverb, “The enemy of my enemy is my friend” is true, especially in the case of countries such as Iran.

By definition, military action cannot kill ideas or beliefs. As the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury intimated in his remarks earlier, our central task must be to convince Muslim-majority societies that their own interests demand toleration of minorities and the equality and freedom of people of other faiths.

In the immediate situation in which we find ourselves, we should recall the successful initiative of Sir John Major in 1991 of creating a United Nations safe haven and no-fly zone, which safeguarded the Kurds. We again need to protect them, the Yazidis, Christians and other minorities who now, as refugees, face another enemy: the fast-approaching winter. As the noble Baroness, Lady Symons, said, we must urgently dry up the sources of ISIL revenue, which, from the sale of oil, antiquities and hostage ransoms, has acquired reserves of more than $1 billion—some of which, paradoxically, are derived from sources in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

We must deal more effectively with those insurgents entering the region, hundreds of whom are from the United Kingdom. In the debate we had in February I mentioned the story of a young man who studied mechanical engineering at the University of Liverpool, went out to fight alongside jihadists and was killed in action there. Sadly, there are hundreds more like him who have gone to Syria. In that same debate, I asked that those leading and fighting for ISIL, and others committing crimes against humanity in the region, be referred to the International Criminal Court or a specially established regional court to hold to account all those charged with what the Prime Minister described on Wednesday as crimes “literally medieval in character”. I hope the noble and learned Lord, Lord Wallace of Tankerness, will address that point specifically in his reply.

Upholding the rule of law may not bring the dramatic results of aerial bombardment, but it is a surer way to demonstrate the nature of a civilised society. It was Einstein who defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over while expecting different results. In dealing with ISIL, we risk doing the same things all over again and getting the same chaotic results.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting and Philippines

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Monday 18th November 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, given what the Minister has said to the House about the response of both the public and the British Government to the people of the Philippines, does he not agree that, in the light of the long disputes that have taken place between China and the Philippines, this would be an admirable opportunity to draw China in to the relief operations? Does he further agree, given the response that was made to China at the time of the Szechuan earthquake, that these catastrophes can be times, to use a phrase used elsewhere in the Statement, for healing and reconciliation?

When discussions took place about the reference to the Human Rights Council of the atrocities that occurred in Sri Lanka, did any discussion take place of the model used in South Africa of a justice and truth commission to examine what took place as an opportunity for both sides to come to terms with the depredations that have occurred there?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

On the first point, I agree with the noble Lord that these awful events could provide an opportunity for a little bit of healing. I hope that other nations will take part in providing help to the Philippines. As far as the detail of the conversations is concerned, I am not sure which parallels or analogies were raised. I am sure that it was the case, however, that some of our experience in Northern Ireland—the difficult times that we went through and the lessons that we learnt in trying to make progress there—were raised and would have been apposite. If there is anything further that I can find out for the noble Lord, I will certainly let him know.

Algeria

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Monday 21st January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

I agree with both the noble Lord’s points—on the importance of working with Algeria, and having African solutions to problems in Africa.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that two of the fatalities were men from Liverpool? Paul Morgan, the head of security, originated from Aigburth, and was killed while trying to repel the attackers. Garry Barlow, from Allerton, reportedly had Semtex strapped to his chest. Their deaths left their loved ones and the local community utterly devastated. Will the Minister ensure that every practical help is given to these and the other grieving families as they try to come to terms with their loss? As this jihadist contagion threatens other countries, especially Nigeria, will he look again at the proscribing of Boko Haram, which has been responsible for hundreds of deaths, and the need to find political and economic solutions to deter the easy recruitment of the disaffected, as well as the wisdom of supporting militias in places such as Syria, which have links with al-Qaeda, or share jihadist indifference to the slaughter of innocent people?

[Lord Hill of Oareford]

First, I agree very much with the noble Lord how important it is that these poor families have every support that we can give them. I know that through the police and in other ways through our embassy we have been providing as much of that support as we possibly can.

On his broader point about Nigeria, we strongly condemn the violence that there has been in northern Nigeria. We are working with the Nigerian authorities to try to find lasting solutions to that conflict and, through our High Commission in Abuja, we are supporting counterterrorism work and interfaith projects. In November, the terrorist organisation, Ansaru, was proscribed by Her Majesty’s Government, which I hope sent a clear message that we condemn its terrorist activities.

Housing

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Shipley]

My Lords—

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords—

[The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Lord Strathclyde)]

My Lords, we have not heard from the Cross Benches during this Question.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, I am grateful. Will the Minister share with the House the number of people who are currently on housing waiting lists in the United Kingdom? Can she also share with us the number of underoccupied properties and the number of empty properties in the UK?

[Baroness Hanham]

My Lords, I do not have the figures with me, although I appreciate that they are available. Perhaps I may write to the noble Lord and give them to him.

Public Disorder

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Thursday 11th August 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords, if concerns over the publication of photographs are to be set aside, as the Prime Minister said in his Statement, can we have a national review of the guidelines on pixelation of CCTV, which has been a growing tendency in recent years?

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, have the redeeming features of the terrible events been not only the dignified stoicism of men such as Tariq Jahan, but the way in which community organisations such as Toxteth Against the Riots have held together and stood on their own streets, defending their own territory? Thirty years ago, when I was a Member of the House of Commons representing an inner-city Liverpool constituency, that city was disfigured by riots. In the aftermath, the Government appointed Lord Scarman to investigate those events. I support what the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, said earlier. I hope that the noble Baroness, Lady Browning, will not rule out the possibility—above and beyond the committee of inquiry to be established in another place—of someone of Lord Scarman’s standing looking at the deep and complex issues involved here. In that context, will they particularly look at the crisis of values and virtues; at the flaccid language of rights, which has pushed to one side the idea of duties, obligations and responsibilities; and at the issue of absent fathers? Eight hundred thousand children in this country have no contact with their fathers. The Times, in an editorial today, says that some 900 children are excluded from school every day. As parents, we have to be on the side of teachers. We must re-establish discipline in our schools. If we do not, it will not be what we have seen this week that will come back to haunt us; it will be far worse events in the future.

[Lord Pearson of Rannoch]

My Lords—

Libya

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

My Lords—

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords—

[Lord Chidgey]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, as regards Security Council Resolution 1973, would not the Leader of the House also agree that the decision of China two weeks ago to support the referral of Colonel Gaddafi to the International Criminal Court firmly puts human rights at the heart of this issue? In that regard, the Leader said in the Statement that Libya has been suspended from the United Nations Human Rights Council. Does he agree that it something of a paradox that a country that was responsible for the killing of WPC Fletcher, responsible for the Lockerbie bombing and responsible for the atrocities now being committed against its own citizens was ever a member of that body in the first place? As we come to review the membership of the Human Rights Council, should we not also review our arms policies? British arms are not only being used now in this theatre in Libya but also being deployed elsewhere in the Middle East against pro-democracy demonstrators.

[Lord Strathclyde]

My Lords, the noble Lord says that it is a paradox and he is entirely right—it is a paradox. We remember not only WPC Fletcher and the atrocity of Lockerbie but also the years of support for the IRA perpetrated by Colonel Gaddafi. We have a very robust arms policy in place. As I know the noble Lord believes and clearly understands, the aim of that policy is to keep continually under review what is exported and to which country it is exported.

Parliamentary Voting System and Constituencies Bill

Lord Alton of Liverpool Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Liddell of Coatdyke]

I would refer the noble Lord to what my noble friend Lord Rooker has just said about the gradations of voting and the worth of each vote in relation to voting for extreme parties. My point is that we did not have pre-legislative scrutiny of this legislation. We did not have a consultation process. Yes, politics comes into it, but I believe that on both sides of the Committee there is a genuine desire to see a more effective way of ensuring that our country is adequately represented in the Parliaments of this land. That is why I believe that my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours has done this Committee a great favour by introducing these amendments. The laws of unintended consequences could radically alter the nature of the political process in this country.

We must not rush into it blindly. There is still the opportunity for the coalition Government to achieve their dream of getting a referendum on the same day as the Scottish and Welsh parliamentary elections. We will come to that later. But, please, let us not get into a situation where we take decisions that we will regret for a very long time.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, that the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, has done the Committee a service by bringing forward this amendment. It demonstrates that there are many views throughout your Lordships’ House about the way in which elections should be conducted and that we need to have a moderated and thoughtful debate before rushing pell-mell into any kind of change to our electoral system.

When I first entered your Lordships’ House, one of the first issues I raised was when the then new Labour Government supported the party list system for European elections. Even though, man and boy, I supported changes to the electoral system, I opposed that change because I was always passionately opposed to the list system, not least for some of the reasons that the noble Baroness, Lady Liddell, has just advanced. It militates in favour of extreme groups. We have seen how they have penetrated through the European elections—the British National Party into the European Parliament—as a consequence of the list system.

I have another reason why I am opposed to it. It is an over-centralised system that places power in the hands of party elites and caucuses who, in smoke-filled rooms, often choose a list of people. My right as a voter—like the rest of your Lordships, this is one election in which we can participate—is then simply to mark my ballot paper not for an individual, but for a party. I believe that that breaches a very important constitutional safeguard. As a former constituency Member of Parliament—and here I share the thought of the noble Lord, Lord Deben—I cherished the relationship between oneself and one’s voters, and the fact that you represented a geographically defined area, somewhere where you could have a relationship with your voters because they lived in a certain area. The representatives would not be simply people from a list that had been determined by a centralised party bureaucracy, and not a system that would militate in favour of extreme groups.

We had that system for European elections. Others have pointed out that we have different systems in different jurisdictions within the United Kingdom, at the local government, devolved and Westminster levels. Surely all this points to the need for a thorough review of the systems already working throughout the UK. Here I am with the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey. I believe that there should have been pre-legislative scrutiny. I said that in the course of the Second Reading debate and in the course of a Question for Short Debate held prior to the general election. I said that we should not be stampeded into any change purely for reasons of electoral calculation. So I would say to my erstwhile friends on the Liberal Democrat Benches that they will come to regret resiling from their long-standing and proper commitment to the single transferable vote system.

I support that system rather than the supplementary vote because it gives the voter the chance to choose between candidates of parties. Inevitably it means that more women and people from ethnic minorities will be elected, and it gives the voter a choice while maintaining a relationship with a defined geographical area. We have used it to great effect in Northern Ireland and Scottish elections. But I do not necessarily expect to convince noble Lords of those arguments today, although if the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, does decide that he needs a second Teller, I would be only too pleased to join him. I say that because if, in the context of talking about multi-choice—an argument that has been advanced throughout these debates—we are going to define in the referendum question a “take it or leave it” issue, either AV or first past the post, we are denying people who have argued for the single transferable vote the opportunity of expressing their belief in that form of proportional representation.

In any event, I do not think that these issues are best decided in a referendum. It would have been far better if there had been legislative scrutiny, and if over the next 12 months we had gone through the due processes. We have been told that we are going to have a fixed-term Parliament of five years, so what is the rush? Surely your Lordships would agree that, in the end, if there is any doubt about the credibility of our voting system, if there is no consensus, and if—after an argument through all the stages of this Bill—it looks as though there is fundamental political disagreement both inside the coalition and between the coalition and the Opposition, how will that place credibility on our voting system, and how will the electorate view that? If people think that this has purely been some piece of cynical political calculation, we will all live to regret it.