Erasmus+

Baroness Smith of Malvern Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Clancarty]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they intend to negotiate the United Kingdom rejoining the Erasmus+ Programme.

[The Minister of State, Department for Education (Baroness Smith of Malvern) (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government have not proposed any plans for rejoining the Erasmus+ programme. However, we will work to reset the relationship with our European friends, strengthen ties, secure a broad-based security pact and tackle barriers to trade. We will look forwards, not backwards, by improving our trade and investment relationship with the EU while recognising that there will be no return to the single market, the customs union or freedom of movement.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree, nevertheless, that if the Prime Minister wishes to reset our relationship with Europe, there would be nothing more germane to this project than rejoining Erasmus+ and enabling the cultural exchange which, through its reciprocity, is at the heart of that programme—an essential element that the Turing scheme lacks? The EU Commission says that it is open to discussion. We have done this for research by rejoining Horizon; we now need to do the same for education but, most of all, for widening the opportunities in Europe for our young people.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The Prime Minister and the Government are working hard to reset our relationship with our European friends. The Prime Minister hosted the EPC at Blenheim Palace, where he was able to engage with all our European friends, and he has recently visited Germany, France and Ireland to progress that positive bilateral work. I think the noble Earl slightly underestimates the impact of the Turing scheme, which has enabled considerable numbers of young people to go overseas to work and study. The Government support it and will want to think about how we can develop it.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I understand that one of the objections to rejoining Erasmus+ is the imbalance between the flow of students coming into Britain and those going out. Would it not be sensible, given the crisis in modern language learning and teaching in English schools, to link the negotiations to rejoin Erasmus with a deliberate scheme to improve the learning and teaching of French, Spanish, German and Italian in British schools, and to encourage British students to go across to those countries and develop fluency in those languages? That would help the British economy and our relationship with other countries and would have a whole host of other benefits.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Lord makes an important point about the significance of languages. I am not sure that we are presently in a position to advise or inform in detail on the UK’s negotiating strategy. But, notwithstanding that, he is of course right about the significance of languages. That is why in the department we have, for example, a very good scheme for language assistants, which enables people from the UK to travel overseas to work as language assistants and those from overseas to come to the UK. It has been successful in helping to promote language learning. We are also very committed to ensuring that the great benefits that come for younger people from being able to take part in school trips, for example, are also facilitated despite the additional barriers that have been put in place by our decision to leave the EU.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, following on from the last question, will the Minister acknowledge that it has been shown that the reciprocal element of Erasmus made a positive contribution to the supply chain of modern language teachers in our schools? Given the critical shortage of qualified language teachers—second only to maths, according to the DfE’s own figures—does she agree that rejoining Erasmus would be a sensible move and that it would help the Government achieve their stated aim of recruiting more teachers for shortage subjects?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

As the noble Baroness identified, as did the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, there was a considerable asymmetry in the Erasmus+ scheme. Of course, I accept that there is considerable benefit from welcoming students, teachers and others from overseas into the UK. That is why the Government have given a much warmer welcome to international students into our higher education institutions than was the case with the previous Government. Erasmus is not the only way in which we can help support language learning. That is why, as I outlined to the noble Lord, the English language assistants programme, which is delivered by the DfE and the British Council, makes an important contribution to enabling paid teaching placements overseas for UK residents to improve their language skills, as well as placements in the UK for non-UK residents to assist with teaching, for example, French, Spanish, Mandarin, German and Italian. All of those—I accept the noble Baroness’s point—are important in our schools and further education institutions.

[Baroness Smith of Llanfaes (PC)]

My Lords, next year, the EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement is due for review. It is essential that we consult and acknowledge the views of young people about their aspirations for our international relationships. Will the Government explore the needs and aspirations of young people and future generations ahead of the trade and co-operation review?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point about the aspirations of young people for our relationships internationally, and particularly with our former EU colleagues. The Paymaster-General, who is also the Minister for the Constitution and European Union Relations, is leading the reset of the UK-EU relationship in the negotiations that the noble Baroness outlines. I will pass on to him her concern that young people are involved in the preparations and the process of that negotiation so that their aspirations can be met by the negotiations that the Government will undertake and the review of the trade and co-operation agreement.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, the last Government introduced the Turing scheme with three very clear principles in mind: first, to make sure that disadvantaged pupils and students had greater opportunities to access it; secondly, to give the scheme a truly global focus; and, thirdly, to ensure value for money for taxpayers. I would be grateful if the Minister could reassure the House that she agrees with those principles and set out how she plans to build on the success of the scheme so far, and indeed give us a clear assurance that the Government plan to continue with the scheme.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Baroness is absolutely right about the objectives of the Turing scheme but she will also be reassured by the results that we have seen this year. For example, we have seen an increase in the proportion of people from disadvantaged backgrounds taking part in the scheme—60% compared with 51% last year. We have also seen a broadening of the possibilities for those who take part in the scheme. Whereas five out of 10 of the most popular destinations under the Turing scheme are within the EU, the other five are outwith the EU, so it is widening the opportunities for young people and those looking to both work and study. The Government have committed £110 million of funding for this academic year, and we will certainly review the success of this scheme and, in the context of the spending review, think carefully about its future.

[The Earl of Kinnoull (CB)]

My Lords, while the Minister is reviewing the Turing scheme, I wonder whether it would be worth reviewing at the same time the success of the Taith scheme in Wales. It sits alongside the Turing scheme and is given to Welsh schoolchildren, and is a better approximation of the Erasmus+ programme.

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

The noble Earl will be pleased to hear that in preparation for answering this question I have been able to learn about the success of the Taith scheme. I will certainly want to build on the relationships that we have across the devolved Administrations in thinking about the most effective way to secure what the Foreign Secretary has been very clear about: we need to do more to champion ties between our people and culture across the European Union. We will learn from all the good experiences and schemes that exist across the whole of the UK.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, the initial Question was very much about Erasmus and the importance of rejoining. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith of Llanfaes—a trio of Smiths is speaking—talked about taking on board the views of young people. What are His Majesty’s Government doing to look at ways of strengthening the opportunities for young people to live and work in Europe? Erasmus provided fantastic opportunities for British students but also helped British soft power, because we had students from other European countries coming here. The long-term benefits of that are profound. Do the Government have a vision that we should be rebuilding relations in that sort of way?

[Baroness Smith of Malvern (Lab)]

I can reassure the noble Baroness that the resetting of our relationship with our European friends has been very clearly identified by the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary as being about trade and security but also about building on our ties of friendship and ensuring that opportunities will exist through school trips and our welcoming of international students into the UK. This Government have very much improved the welcome to international students after the very unwelcoming approach that the last Government took, as well as developing the Turing scheme in the way that I have outlined.