Devolution and the Union

Debate between Ian Murray and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Thursday 20th November 2014 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

I knew that would be a waste of an intervention. Many Scottish Members want to speak, but the behaviour of the SNP today has been appalling. I wish it would engage with this issue.

People want politicians elected to represent them to talk about the things they tell us about, and we have listened to the Scottish people. SNP Members might not believe it, but it was a no vote. Their own leader said that would be it for a generation, yet they have even been talking about unilateral declarations of independence. The people have spoken, and politicians must listen. The Smith commission’s recommendations will be out next Thursday and will be implemented as per the plan. That was the vow to the Scottish people, and it will be followed through. It is part of a variety of devolution measures that this party has delivered and which are still to come.

[Mr MacNeil]

rose—

[Ian Murray]

I will not give way because I want other Members to speak and time is ticking on.

A constitutional convention would deal with all these issues, alongside devolving £30 billion to the English regions, reforming the House of Lords and turning it into a regional senate, and further devolution for Wales.

These are important debates. We should have more Government time in which to explore these issues properly, but it is clear that the devolution vow and promise made to Scotland will be carried through—separately from all these other issues about English votes and devolution elsewhere in the United Kingdom. This is a view for the whole of the UK and we should do it on that—

Currency in Scotland after 2014

Debate between Ian Murray and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Westminster Hall

[Ian Murray]

My hon. Friend has hit the nail on the head. A currency union is a question not only for Scotland, but for the rest of the United Kingdom, because the stabilisers that require a currency union would be stabilisers that England or the rest of the United Kingdom would have to use, as well as Scotland. It is a question for the rest of the United Kingdom, and that is a very valuable intervention from my hon. Friend, who is from an English constituency. [Interruption.] I can hear SNP Members chuntering, “Scaremongering”. Well, I hope that they go back and tell their constituents that the SNP disregards what they are saying as scaremongering rather than as raising legitimate issues about the currency and jobs.

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will make some progress, then I will give way. I was talking about the euro. Let us reflect on what is happening now with the euro area: it is seeking very significant steps to expand the sharing of risks and pooling of resources to create a more homogenous currency union to make it work properly—exactly what the UK in its current state now provides for the pound sterling.

I know that the First Minister said that we should ignore experts, but John Cridland, the director general of the CBI, emphasised last week:

“As the Governor highlighted, successful currency unions need strong fiscal agreements and a banking union, with common supervisory standards and resolution mechanisms. The negative effects”—

this point is critical—

“of not having these structures in place have been starkly illustrated by the Eurozone crisis.”

There is a very positive case for staying with the United Kingdom as part of this currency debate and I would like to run through three points that are particularly relevant to the currency and the economy.

First, Scotland benefits from being part of the UK economy, which is the third largest economy in Europe and the sixth largest in the world. Being part of the larger, more diverse UK economy brings strength, stability and security, not only to Scotland’s finances, but to those of the United Kingdom.

Secondly, being part of the UK offers us protection from financial shocks. During the financial crisis, banks based in Scotland took advantage of the protection offered to UK banks. Since 2007, the UK has committed £1.2 trillion to bailing out the banks. At its peak, the Edinburgh-based Royal Bank of Scotland received £254 billion in support from the UK Government. That pooling and sharing is critical.

Thirdly, the rest of the UK is Scotland’s biggest trading partner. Scottish businesses buy and sell more products and services from the rest of the UK than every other country in the world combined. In 2010, 70% of Scotland’s exported goods and services went to England, Wales and Northern Ireland, accounting for a massive 35% of Scottish GDP. Likewise, 70% of Scotland’s imports are estimated to come from the rest of the United Kingdom.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Murray]

Let me make a little progress. I know that other hon. Members want to speak, but I will allow hon. Members to intervene.

It is not just an issue for Scotland. The rest of the UK—this is an important point, which other hon. Members have made in interventions—would have to agree. It appears from speculation in the press today—perhaps the Treasury Minister can indicate whether it is speculation—that there will not be an agreement on currency union, as it is undeliverable. If an agreement is not possible or is ruled out by the Treasury, what will be the Scottish Government’s plan B? [Interruption.] The nationalists are chuntering away about what they would do. I am happy to take an intervention if they want to tell the people of Scotland now what the Scottish nationalists’ plan B is for the currency should Scotland vote yes for independence. [Interruption.]

[Mr MacNeil]

I am very glad that the hon. Gentleman has given way; he promised to give way. Has he informed the people of England of what his policy would mean for them if he managed to go hand in hand with Osborne and keep Scotland out of sterling? What would it mean for the balance of payments? What would it mean for the value of sterling? What would be the price of holidays for English people going abroad without Scotland’s contribution to sterling? The hon. Gentleman knows full well that Labour keeping Scotland out of sterling would make things far more expensive for English people.

[Ian Murray]

I apologise to everyone in the debate. I allowed the hon. Member for the Western Isles to intervene to tell us what the SNP’s plan B is, and he chuntered on about something to do with holidays that I could barely hear because his colleagues were chuntering over him. I have no idea what he said. [Interruption.]

[Ian Murray]

Thank you, Mrs Riordan. I will give the nationalists one more opportunity if they want to intervene to tell us what the SNP’s plan B would be should people vote yes for an independent Scotland and there is no currency union. No?

[Mr MacNeil]

rose—

[Ian Murray]

Go on. Tell us what plan B will be.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr MacNeil]

The hon. Gentleman did not hear because of the chuntering beside him, but the point is that we know full well what we are doing—we are keeping sterling. But if his policy was—[Laughter.] If his policy was put in place, what would happen to people in England as the balance of payments worsened and sterling weakened? Imports would be more expensive. Holidays would be more expensive. Labour’s policy is irresponsible to the people of England as it is to the people of Wales.

[Ian Murray]

Mrs Riordan, I apologise again for wasting another intervention through the nationalists not telling us what plan B would be. Let me tell them what the currency will be in England and Wales. It will be the pound sterling. That is what they will keep.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will not give way again to the hon. Gentleman, because he refused to answer my last question. To summarise, losing the pound would result in a higher cost of living, with higher mortgage repayments, higher credit card and store card bills, and more costly car loans. Scotland would start out as a separate state with no credit rating, or one that had been hugely damaged by threats of default. There would be fewer jobs, because of the cost of changing money every time Scottish firms bought or sold from our biggest customer, which is the rest of the United Kingdom. There would be deeper cuts or higher taxes because the Scottish Government would pay more to borrow money, which would result in more debt and lower public spending. There would be risks to benefits and pensions as payments were converted from sterling to a different currency.

There would be risks to the economy. Without the back-up of the rest of the UK, Scottish banks would have gone under during the financial crisis, and families and businesses across the country would have lost everything. Scotland would have an unproven and weak currency with a poor credit rating and high borrowing costs. The SNP’s proposition may be summed up as this: we should go from a proven and respected single currency backed by a strong lender of last resort as part of the United Kingdom to a promise from Alex Salmond that he is simply not in a position to deliver. That is not good enough for the Scottish people or Scottish business.

I can say this afternoon without doubt, argument or contradiction that the currency of Scotland post 2014 will be the pound, but only if we stay in the United Kingdom. It is now clear that the most positive case that we can make for the Union is the pound in our pockets. We must do all we can, today and for the next seven months, to protect it for future generations.

Daylight Saving Bill

Debate between Ian Murray and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Friday 20th January 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

I too will be brief. I just want to take the opportunity to pay a glowing tribute to the hon. Member for Castle Point (Rebecca Harris), who has brought the Bill to the House. She has conducted herself in a manner that every hon. Member should follow; she has been constructive in her dealings with the Government and the Opposition on the Bill, not just with regard to today’s amendments, but in Committee at the beginning of December. She deserves great credit for introducing the Bill.

I hope that not too many Members feel that this is Groundhog day. As a new Member, I have not debated daylight savings before in the House, but many Members who have been here for slightly longer than I have will have had a number of such opportunities. As I said in Committee, I hope that we can conclude today’s debate, reach Third Reading and get moving on the Bill before it gets dark. That in itself would be a great tribute to the Bill.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will not give way, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind, because we want to move on. It is important that the Minister hears the debate on the amendments in the first group, which relate to the independent oversight group that will look after how we go forward with the in-depth report. There have been calls for faith groups to be consulted, and that is important. The energy issues put forward by the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Mr Reid) should be at the top of the agenda. At a time when the Government are cutting too far and too fast and household incomes are—[Interruption.] It does not actually say that here, as someone claims from a sedentary position, but everyone in the country knows that the Government are going too far and too fast. Perhaps if those on the Treasury Bench would listen to Opposition Members, we might be a little further forward in terms of growth. I was making a serious point about energy, and such matters have to be taken into account.

The Minister has to be clear and specific about the role to be played by the devolved Administrations in putting together the report.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will not give way. The hon. Gentleman will have an opportunity to speak.

I commend the hon. Lady for bringing the Bill to this stage in the House and I hope that we can at least conclude its Third Reading this morning.

Fuel Prices and the Cost of Living

Debate between Ian Murray and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Wednesday 16th March 2011 Commons Chamber

[Ian Murray]

I am delighted that the hon. Gentleman has managed to ingrain himself with the propaganda being put out by the Conservative and Liberal Democrat parties about the deficit. He has given me a wonderful opportunity to go back to the start of that list so that he can take it all in.

There is no doubt that the Government’s cuts in public services are going too far, too fast and too deep. Everyone knows that the deficit must be reduced, but reducing it over time would protect my constituents from the ideological cuts that the Government are introducing under the veil of the deficit.

Let me return to what is happening to that squeezed middle manager at HMRC. He faces increased national insurance contributions and an increase in VAT to 20%. His pension will be cut because it will be linked to CPI instead of RPI. He faces tuition fees for his two children. He has lost his child benefit because he is a higher-rate taxpayer, and record commodity prices are pushing up food prices. He faces a high inflation rate, partly owing to the increase in VAT to 20%. His salary has been frozen. He has job insecurity. He faces increased energy prices, increased borrowing costs and lower interest on his savings, all because of this Government. Moreover—this brings us back to the motion—the price of fuel means that the cost of filling up the family car has gone through the roof. The Chancellor of the Exchequer is taking an extra £59 million from the Scottish people because of the increase in VAT, which is directly related to the cost of the fuel that they put in their cars.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Ian Murray]

I will not, if the hon. Gentleman does not mind.

Each time people drive down the street, they see the large neon sign at every petrol station, and that is having yet another damaging effect on consumer confidence.

What are we left with? We are left with a broken promise from the Government on VAT, and a broken promise on the fuel duty stabiliser. Many people in East Lothian and Edinburgh South voted for the Conservatives because they had made that promise before the election. Time after time, promises made to ordinary people in my constituency and throughout the country are broken, and it is about time that Ministers did something about it.

Tuition Fees

Debate between Ian Murray and Angus Brendan MacNeil

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr MacNeil]

Apologise!

[Ian Murray]

I do not know what I have done to make everyone begin to be rude to me, but the Secretary of State started it, so perhaps I have done something wrong.

Let me compliment the hon. Member for Perth and North Perthshire (Pete Wishart) on the start of his speech. Will he comment on the massive amount of communication in which he has engaged with the Scottish people, which is similar to the communication in which the Liberal Democrats have engaged? Would he, too, lie to students at a general election by saying that he would write off all the student fees? Would he lie to students to get elected, and then turn his back on that pledge as well?