Financial Guidance and Claims Bill [Lords]

Guy Opperman Excerpts

3rd reading: House of Commons & Report: 3rd sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 24th April 2018 Commons Chamber

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I can now inform the House that I have completed certification of the Bill, as required by the Standing Order. Clauses 29 and 31 of, and schedule 4 to, the Bill, as amended, relate exclusively to England and Wales and are within legislative competence. Copies of the final certificate will be made available in the Vote Office and on the parliamentary website.

Under Standing Order No. 83M, a consent motion is therefore required for the Bill to proceed. Copies of the motion are now available. Does the Minister intend to move the consent motion?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

indicated assent.

The House forthwith resolved itself into the Legislative Grand Committee (England and Wales) (Standing Order No. 83M).

[Dame Rosie Winterton in the Chair]

Financial Guidance and Claims Bill [ Lords ] (Third sitting)

Guy Opperman Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2018 Public Bill Committees

[John Glen]

Clause 27 deals with the application and enforcement of the interim fee cap before the transfer of claims management regulation to the FCA. It states that the cap will be implemented by the claims management regulation unit and legal services regulators in England and Wales. It also defines the first interim period as the period beginning with the day the cap comes into force, two months after Royal Assent, until the day before regulation transfers to the FCA. It is clear that the clause plays an integral part in establishing the interim fee cap.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 27 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 28 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 29

Extent

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

I beg to move amendment 7, in clause 29, page 25, line 32, leave out from beginning to “extends” and insert “Part 1, other than the provisions mentioned in subsections (2) to (3B),”

This amendment makes a minor drafting change, restructuring the extent clause, in consequence of the changes to that clause made by Amendment 8 and the amendments relating to Part 2.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 8 to 16.

Clause stand part.

Clause 30 stand part.

[Guy Opperman]

It is pleasure to serve under your chairmanship once again, Mr Rosindell. Amendments 7 to 16 are consequential to main amendments that the Committee has already made. Clause 30 allows the provisions of the Bill to be enacted at the appropriate times, some in relation to part 1 and some to part 2.

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[Gareth Thomas]

I am extremely grateful to you, Mr Rosindell, because you made your intervention just as I was drawing my remarks to an end. Given your great act of charity, I have made the three points I wanted to make, and I now look to the Minister to address my concerns.

[Guy Opperman]

That was undoubtedly the most ingenious way of creating a submission. I have to confess that, when I looked at the commencement order that I have to speak to, I did not expect to have to answer three specific points, but I hope I can give the hon. Gentleman a detailed answer. I assure him that if I fail in that task, I will give him a definitive answer next Monday, when we will meet to discuss these matters.

Let me take the hon. Gentleman’s points in reverse order. BrightHouse will be covered by the levy for the single financial guidance body. I believe that I will be able to give him more detail when I see him in 10 days’ time.

The hon. Gentleman will know that I founded and built up a credit union. I think I am the only MP to have been mad enough to do so—the grey hair I am rapidly acquiring is due to that mad endeavour, of which I am extremely proud. I am no longer specifically involved in it, but both I and my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury are passionately committed to credit unions. We will review the nature of credit unions and how they are provided for statutorily under the Credit Unions Act 1979. I am happy to discuss that with the hon. Gentleman separately.

Let me make three points on access to data. First, the Money Advice Service already performs that service by creating a data bank and an information process by which it can judge the way ahead. Secondly, clause 18 specifically addresses requirements for the disclosure and interaction of data between the various bodies to ensure that the point the hon. Gentleman raised is addressed. Thirdly, with regard to the Bill as a whole, FCA work is also going on to obtain a quarterly dataset. Both the FCA and the Money Advice Service are doing that. I will happily reply in more detail to the three points that he rightly, and very ingeniously, put to me.

[Gareth Thomas]

I am grateful to the Minister for his generous response. Perhaps he would be willing to look kindly on a letter setting out some of the concerns about the dataset that is currently provided. I gently suggest that Ministers might engage with UK Finance to encourage the release of further data to help make that a more useful exercise.

[Guy Opperman]

I would be delighted to receive such a letter. I commend the Government amendments to the Committee.

Amendment 7 agreed to.

Amendments made: 8, in clause 29, page 25, line 37, at end insert—

“(3A) In section (Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc)—

(a) subsections (1) to (5) extend to England and Wales and Scotland;

(b) subsections (6) to (9) extend to Northern Ireland.

(3B) Paragraph 25 of Schedule 3 extends to England and Wales and Scotland.”

New subsection (3A) updates the extent clause so that the amendments to the Pensions Schemes Act 1993 in NC2 extend only to England and Wales and Scotland and the amendments to the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993 extend only to Northern Ireland. New subsection (3B) contains text previously in subsection (6) in consequence of restructuring this clause.

Amendment 9, in clause 29, page 25, line 38, leave out subsections (4) and (5) and insert—

“(4) Part 2, other than the provisions mentioned in subsections (5) and (5A), extends to England and Wales and Scotland.

(5) The following provisions extend to England and Wales—

(a) section24(12) and Schedule4;

(b) section27;

(c) section (PPI claims: interim restriction on charges imposed by legal practitioners after transfer of regulation to FCA).

(5A) Section (Cold calling about claims management services) extends to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.”

This amends the extent clause, so that the new clause inserted by NC3 extends to England and Wales only, and the new clause inserted by NC6 extends to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

Amendment 10, in clause 29, page 25, line 42, leave out subsection (6) and insert—

“( ) This Part extends to England and Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.” —(Guy Opperman.)

This amendment contains a minor drafting change consequential upon the restructuring of the extent clause.

Clause 29, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 30

Commencement

Amendments made: 11, in clause 30, page 26, line 13, at end insert—

“(1A) Subsections (6) to (9) of section (Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc) come into force on a day appointed by order made by the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland.

(1B) An order under subsection (1A) may make—

(a) transitional, transitory and saving provision in connection with the coming into force of any provision in section (Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc)(6) to (9);

(b) incidental and supplementary provision, and

(c) different provision for different purposes,

and the power to make such an order is exercisable by statutory rule for the purposes of the Statutory Rules (Northern Ireland) Order 1979 (S.I. 1979/1573 (N.I. 12)).”

This amendment gives the power to bring into force the provisions amending the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993 in the new clause inserted by NC2 to the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland.

Amendment 12, in clause 30, page 26, line 14, leave out “28” and insert “(PPI claims: interim restriction on charges imposed by legal practitioners after transfer of regulation to FCA)”

This amends the commencement clause, so that the new clause inserted by NC3 comes into force 2 months after Royal Assent.

Amendment 13, in clause 30, page 26, line 21, at end insert “except section (Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc) (6) to (9)”

This amendment is consequential on amendment 11.

Amendment 14, in clause 30, page 26, line 29, at end insert “, and

(ii) section (Cold calling about claims management services)”

This amends the commencement clause to provide for NC6 about cold calling in relation to claims management services to be brought into force on a day appointed in regulations made by the Secretary of State.

Amendment 15, in clause 30, page 26, line 31, at end insert “, other than section (Cold calling about claims management services)”

This amendment is consequential on amendment 14.

Amendment 16, in clause 30, page 26, line 31, at end insert—

“( ) The Treasury must obtain the consent of the Lord Chancellor before making regulations under subsection (3) or (5) in relation to section (Legal services regulators’ rules: charges for claims management services).”—(Guy Opperman.)

This amendment requires the Treasury to obtain the consent of the Lord Chancellor before making regulations for the commencement of the new clause inserted by amendment NC4.

Clause 30, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

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Short Title

[Guy Opperman]

I beg to move amendment 17, in clause 31, page 26, line 34, leave out subsection (2).

This amendment removes the privilege amendment inserted by the Lords.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss clause stand part.

[Guy Opperman]

The amendment is a minor change that removes the privilege amendment inserted in the House of Lords. Privilege amendments are inserted to acknowledge that it is the privilege of the House of Commons to control charges on the people or on public funds. Its removal is a formality.

Amendment 17 agreed to.

Clause 31, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

New Clause 1

Personal pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc

“(1) Section 137FB of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (FCA general rules: disclosure of information about the availability of pensions guidance) is amended as follows.

(2) After subsection (1), insert—

“(1A) The FCA must also make general rules requiring the trustees or managers of a relevant pension scheme to take the steps mentioned in subsections (1B) and (1C) in relation to an application from a member or survivor—

(a) to transfer any rights accrued under the scheme, or

(b) to start receiving benefits provided by the scheme.

(1B) As part of the application process, the trustees or managers must ask the member or survivor whether they have received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice.

(1C) In a case where the member or survivor indicates that they have not received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice, the trustees or managers must also—

(a) recommend that the member or survivor seeks such guidance or advice, and

(b) ask the member or survivor whether—

(i) they wish to wait until they have received such guidance or advice before deciding whether to proceed with the application, or

(ii) they wish to proceed with the application without having received it.

(1D) The rules may—

(a) specify what constitutes appropriate pensions guidance and appropriate independent financial advice;

(b) make further provision about how the trustees or managers must comply with the duties in subsections (1B) and (1C) (such as provision about methods of communication and time limits);

(c) specify what the duties of the trustees or managers are in the situation where a member or survivor does not respond to a question mentioned in subsection (1B) or (1C)(b);

(d) provide for exceptions to the duties in subsections (1B) and (1C) in specified cases.”

(3) In subsection (2), for “this section” substitute “subsection (1)”.

(4) After subsection (2) insert—

“(2A) Before the FCA publishes a draft of any rules to be made by virtue of subsection (1A), it must consult—

(a) the Secretary of State, and

(b) the single financial guidance body.”

(5) In subsection (3), for “the rules” substitute “rules to be made by virtue of subsection (1)”.

(6) After subsection (3) insert—

“(3A) In determining what provision to include in rules to be made by virtue of subsection (1A), the FCA must have regard to any regulations that are for the time being in force under section 113B of the Pension Schemes Act 1993 (occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc).”

(7) In subsection (4), for the definition of “pensions guidance” substitute—

““pensions guidance” means information or guidance provided by any person in pursuance of the requirements mentioned in section5 of the Financial Guidance and Claims Act 2018 (information etc about flexible benefits under pension schemes);”.” —(Guy Opperman.)

This new clause requires the FCA to make rules requiring trustees or managers of personal and stakeholder pension schemes to check whether members have either received guidance or advice or have opted out of receiving it before accessing or transferring their pension assets. It also makes consequential amendments to FSMA 2000. It would be inserted after clause 18.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 2

Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc

“(1) The Pension Schemes Act 1993 is amended as set out in subsections (2) to (5).

(2) After section 113A insert—

“113B Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc

(1) The Secretary of State must make regulations requiring the trustees or managers of an occupational pension scheme to take the steps mentioned in subsections (2) and (3) in relation to an application from a relevant beneficiary—

(a) to transfer any rights accrued under the scheme, or

(b) to start receiving benefits provided by the scheme.

(2) As part of the application process, the trustees or managers must ask the beneficiary whether they have received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice.

(3) In a case where the beneficiary indicates that they have not received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice, the trustees or managers must also—

(a) recommend that the beneficiary seeks such guidance or advice, and

(b) ask the beneficiary whether—

(i) they wish to wait until they have received such guidance or advice before deciding whether to proceed with the application, or

(ii) they wish to proceed with the application without having received it.

(4) The regulations may—

(a) specify what constitutes appropriate pensions guidance and appropriate independent financial advice;

(b) make further provision about how the trustees or managers must comply with the duties in subsections (2) and (3) (such as provision about methods of communication and time limits);

(c) specify what the duties of the trustees or managers are in the situation where a beneficiary does not respond to a question mentioned in subsection (2) or (3)(b);

(d) provide for exceptions to the duties in subsections (2) and (3) in specified cases;

(e) provide for the Secretary of State or another prescribed person to issue guidance for the purposes of this section, to which trustees or managers must have regard in complying with their duties under the regulations.

(5) In determining what provision to include in the regulations, the Secretary of State must have regard to any rules that are for the time being in force under section 137FB(1A) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

(6) In this section—

“relevant beneficiary”, in relation to a pension scheme, means—

(a) a member of the scheme, or

(b) another person of a prescribed description,

who has a right or entitlement to flexible benefits under the scheme;

“flexible benefits” has the meaning given by section 74 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015;

“pensions guidance” means information or guidance provided by any person in pursuance of the requirements mentioned in section5 of the Financial Guidance and Claims Act 2018 (information etc about flexible benefits under pension schemes).”

(3) In section 115 (powers as respects failure to comply with information requirements), in subsection (1), after “113” insert “, 113B”.

(4) In section 182(5) (power of Treasury to direct that regulation-making powers are exercisable only in conjunction with them), after “except” insert “regulations under section 113B or”.

(5) In section 185(2) (consultations about other regulations: exceptions), after paragraph (c) insert—

“(ca) regulations under section 113B; or”.

(6) The Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993 is amended as set out in subsections (7) to (9).

(7) After section 109A insert—

“109B Occupational pension schemes: requirements to recommend guidance etc

(1) The Department must make regulations requiring the trustees or managers of an occupational pension scheme to take the steps mentioned in subsections (2) and (3) in relation to an application from a relevant beneficiary—

(a) to transfer any rights accrued under the scheme, or

(b) to start receiving benefits provided by the scheme.

(2) As part of the application process, the trustees or managers must ask the beneficiary whether they have received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice.

(3) In a case where the beneficiary indicates that they have not received appropriate pensions guidance or appropriate independent financial advice, the trustees or managers must also—

(a) recommend that the beneficiary seeks such guidance or advice, and

(b) ask the beneficiary whether—

(i) they wish to wait until they have received such guidance or advice before deciding whether to proceed with the application, or

(ii) they wish to proceed with the application without having received it.

(4) The regulations may—

(a) specify what constitutes appropriate pensions guidance and appropriate independent financial advice;

(b) make further provision about how the trustees or managers must comply with the duties in subsections (2) and (3) (such as provision about methods of communication and time limits);

(c) specify what the duties of the trustees or managers are in the situation where a beneficiary does not respond to a question mentioned in subsection (2) or (3)(b);

(d) provide for exceptions to the duties in subsections (2) and (3) in specified cases;

(e) provide for the Department or another prescribed person to issue guidance for the purposes of this section, to which trustees or managers must have regard in complying with their duties under the regulations.

(5) In determining what provision to include in the regulations, the Department must have regard to any rules that are for the time being in force under section 137FB(1A) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000.

(6) In this section—

“relevant beneficiary”, in relation to a pension scheme, means—

(a) a member of the scheme, or

(b) another person of a prescribed description,

who has a right or entitlement to flexible benefits under the scheme;

“flexible benefits” has the meaning given by section 74 of the Pension Schemes Act 2015;

“pensions guidance” means information or guidance provided by any person in pursuance of the requirements mentioned in section5 of the Financial Guidance and Claims Act 2018 (information etc about flexible benefits under pension schemes).”

(8) In section 111 (powers as respects failure to comply with information requirements), in subsection (1), after “109” insert “or 109B”.

(9) In section 177(6) (power of Department of Finance to direct that regulation-making powers are exercisable only in conjunction with them), after “except” insert “regulations under section 109B or”.” —(Guy Opperman.)

This new clause makes equivalent provision to that in NC1 for occupational pension schemes and requires the Secretary of State and the Department for Communities to make regulations corresponding to the FCA rules mentioned in NC1. It also makes consequential amendments to the Pension Schemes Act 1993 and the Pension Schemes (Northern Ireland) Act 1993.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 3

PPI claims: interim restriction on charges imposed by legal practitioners after transfer of regulation to FCA

“(1) A legal practitioner—

(a) must not charge a claimant, for a service which is a relevant claims management activity provided in connection with the claimant’s PPI claim, an amount which exceeds the fee cap for the claim, and

(b) must not enter into an agreement that provides for the payment by a claimant, for a service which is a relevant claims management activity provided in connection with the claimant’s PPI claim, of charges which would breach, or are capable of breaching, the prohibition in paragraph (a).

(2) Subsections (2) to (5) and (7) of section 27 apply for the purposes of the prohibitions in subsection (1) as they apply for the purposes of the prohibitions in section 27(1) but as if—

(a) references in those subsections to “regulated claims management services” were references to “relevant claims management activity” and references to “regulated persons” were references to “legal practitioners”, and

(b) the first entry in columns 1 and 2 of the table in subsection (5) were omitted.

(3) Subsection (1) applies as follows—

(a) the prohibition in subsection (1)(a) applies only to charges imposed by a legal practitioner under an agreement entered into during the period—

(i) beginning with the first day of the second interim period (within the meaning given by section28(6)), and

(ii) ending with the end date for that practitioner, and

(b) the prohibition in subsection (1)(b) applies only to agreements entered into by a legal practitioner during that period.

(4) For the purposes of subsection (3), the end date is—

(a) for a legal practitioner for whom the relevant regulator is the Law Society of England and Wales, the day before the coming into force of the first rule made by the Law Society of England and Wales under section (Legal services regulators’ rules: charges for claims management services) that applies to, or to any description of, PPI claims, and

(b) for any other legal practitioner, 29 April 2020.

(5) In this section “relevant claims management activity”—

(a) does not include any reserved legal activities of the kind mentioned in section 12(1)(a) or (b) of the Legal Services Act 2007 (exercise of a right of audience or the conduct of litigation), but

(b) otherwise, means activity of a kind specified in an order under section 22(1B) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (regulated activities: claims management services), disregarding any exemption in that order for activities carried on by, through, or at the direction of, a legal practitioner.” —(Guy Opperman.)

This new clause requires the Law Society of England and Wales, the Bar Council and the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives, after the transfer of regulation from the Claims Management Regulator to the FCA, to enforce a fee cap in respect of charges by lawyers for certain claims management services provided in connection with a PPI claim until, in the case of the Law Society, the Society has made its own rules about charges for PPI claims, and in any other case, 29 April 2020.

Brought up, read the First and Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 4

Legal services regulators’ rules: charges for claims management services

“(1) The Law Society of England and Wales, the General Council of the Bar and the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives may make rules prohibiting regulated persons from—

(a) entering into a specified relevant claims management agreement that provides for the payment by a person of specified charges, and

(b) imposing specified charges on a person in connection with the provision of a service which is, or which is provided in connection with, a specified relevant claims management activity.

(2) The Law Society of England and Wales must exercise that power to make rules in relation to all relevant claims management agreements, and all relevant claims management activities, which concern claims in relation to financial products or services.

(3) The Law Society of Scotland may make rules prohibiting regulated persons from—

(a) entering into a relevant claims management agreement concerning a claim in relation to a financial product or service that provides for the payment by a person of specified charges, and

(b) imposing specified charges on a person in connection with the provision of a service which is, or which is provided in connection with, a relevant claims management activity concerning a claim in relation to a financial product or service.

(4) Rules under this section may make provision securing that for the purposes of the prohibition referred to in subsection (1)(a) or (3)(a) charges payable under a relevant claims management agreement are to be treated as including charges payable under an agreement treated by the rules as being connected with the relevant claims management agreement.

(5) In this section ‘regulated persons’ means—

(a) in relation to the Law Society of England and Wales—

(i) persons who, or licensable bodies which, are authorised by the Law Society to carry on a reserved legal activity,

(ii) European lawyers registered with the Law Society under the European Communities (Lawyer’s Practice) Regulations 2000 (S.I. 2000/1119), and

(iii) foreign lawyers registered with the Law Society under section 89 of the Courts and Legal Services Act 1990;

(b) in relation to the Law Society of Scotland, Scottish legal practitioners;

(c) in relation to the General Council of the Bar—

(i) persons who, or licensable bodies which, are authorised by the General Council to carry on a reserved legal activity, and

(ii) European lawyers registered with the General Council under the European Communities (Lawyer’s Practice) Regulations 2000;

(d) in relation to the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives, persons authorised by the Institute to carry on a reserved legal activity.

(6) The rules must be made with a view to securing an appropriate degree of protection against excessive charges for the provision of a service which is, or which is provided in connection with, a relevant claims management activity.

(7) The rules may specify charges by reference to charges of a specified class or description, or by reference to charges which exceed, or are capable of exceeding, a specified amount.

(8) The rules may not specify—

(a) charges for a reserved legal activity within the meaning of the Legal Services Act 2007 (see section 12 of that Act);

(b) charges imposed in respect of—

(i) the exercise of a right of audience by a Scottish legal practitioner;

(ii) the conduct of litigation by a Scottish legal practitioner.

(9) In subsection (8)(b)—

‘conduct of litigation’ means—

(a) the bringing of proceedings before any court in Scotland;

(b) the commencement, prosecution and defence of such proceedings;

(c) the performance of any ancillary functions in relation to such proceedings;

‘right of audience’ means the right to appear before and address a court in Scotland, including the right to call and examine witnesses.

(10) In relation to an agreement entered into, or charge imposed, in contravention of the rules, the rules may (amongst other things)—

(a) provide for the agreement, or obligation to pay the charge, to be unenforceable or unenforceable to a specified extent;

(b) provide for the recovery of amounts paid under the agreement or obligation;

(c) provide for the payment of compensation for any losses incurred as a result of paying amounts under the agreement or obligation.

(11) For the purposes of this section—

‘relevant claims management activity’ means activity of a kind specified in an order under section 22(1B) of the Financial Services and Markets Act 2000 (regulated activities: claims management services), disregarding any exemption in that order for activities carried on by, through, or at the direction of, a legal practitioner;

‘relevant claims management agreement’ means an agreement, the entering into or performance of which by either party is a relevant claims management activity;

‘Scottish legal practitioner’ means—

(a) a person qualified to practise as a solicitor in accordance with section 4 of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980;

(b) European lawyers registered with the Law Society of Scotland under the European Communities (Lawyer’s Practice) (Scotland) Regulations 2000 (S.S.I. 2000/121);

(c) foreign lawyers registered with the Law Society of Scotland under section 60A of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980;

(d) an incorporated practice within the meaning given by section 34(1A)(c) of the Solicitors (Scotland) Act 1980;

(e) a licensed legal services provider within the meaning of Part 2 of the Legal Services (Scotland) Act 2010 (see section 47 of that Act) that provides, or offers to provide, legal services under a licence issued by the Law Society of Scotland;

‘specified’ means specified in the rules, but ‘specified amount’ means an amount specified in or determined in accordance with the rules.

(12) This section does not limit any power of the Law Society of England and Wales, the Law Society of Scotland, the General Council of the Bar or the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives existing apart from this section to make rules.”—(John Glen.)

This new clause makes provision about rules prohibiting charges for claims management services which may be made by the Law Society of England and Wales, the General Council of the Bar, the Chartered Institute of Legal Executives and (where the claim concerns financial products or services) the Law Society of Scotland, and imposes a duty on the Law Society of England and Wales to make such rules in relation to claims concerning financial products or services.

Brought up, and read the First time.

[John Glen]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

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[Guy Opperman]

It is a delight to respond to a very important and legitimate point. I should make a number of declarations at the outset: I know LawWorks very well, I set up a free representation unit and a pro bono unit, and two Labour Peers have given me awards for my pro bono works in the past. Lord Goldsmith and Baroness Scotland were both most ill advised in giving me the pro bono lawyer of the year and then a pro bono hero award for exactly this sort of work, although not in respect of debt advice. I have great sympathy with the hon. Lady’s point. I will address it briefly now but am happy to discuss it in more detail.

There are a number of easy arguments to make. Most importantly, this is a matter that the single financial guidance body can already address. Clause 3(5), (9) and (10) give capacity for the single financial guidance body to review the provision of those types of arrangements, and to make recommendations once it has come to a conclusion on whether it is an appropriate way forward.

I accept and acknowledge that the FCA transfer has created some anomalies, but there is a reason why. The hon. Lady will fully understand that the Government are keen to ensure that consumers in problem debt have access to high-quality, regulated debt advice. The new body will, to a great degree, go a long way to ensure that that specific goal is met, but there are a couple of extra points I will make.

First, it is important to note that, during the transfer of debt advice regulation to the FCA, the not-for-profit debt advice providers widely supported the FCA regulation of their activity because they felt it was important to ensure that all debt advice was of a high quality. Secondly, with great respect to LawWorks and the point made, I do not believe the assertion made is appropriate. Of course, individual organisations can apply to be regulated if they so choose, or to get a group regulation under FCA rules, but I think it appropriate that we consider it in more detail and invite the SFGB to go away and decide whether it is something it would recommend as part of the statutory remit we have set up under clause 3. In those circumstances, I invite the hon. Lady not to pursue her new clause.

[Yvonne Fovargue]

I thank the Minister for his reply and I am pleased that he has taken on board the principle. Certainly we do not want to deregulate the Debt Advice Network. I am in favour of it being a regulated body so that we can have high-quality advice. I beg to ask leave to withdraw the motion.

Clause, by leave, withdrawn.

[Guy Opperman]

Am I correct that we have now finished all particular clauses that need to be decided thus far?

[The Chair]

It would appear so.

Question proposed, That the Chair do report the Bill, as amended, to the House.

[Guy Opperman]

Although the Committee has finished earlier than programmed, I think it is fair to say that the Bill has received thorough scrutiny from hon. Members in all particular ways. Some measures have been more scrutinised than others, even though they were not particularly on the amendment paper as appropriate for scrutiny.

I put on the record my thanks to your good self, Mr Rosindell, and also to Mr Stringer for keeping us moderately in order and for running the sessions so smoothly. I also thank Hansard, the Doorkeepers and the Clerks for enabling us to get through the business so efficiently. On behalf of my hon. Friend the Economic Secretary to the Treasury and myself, I thank the multitude of officials who have kept us in order. I also thank the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington, for the Opposition, and the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire South, for the Scottish National party, for the constructive way in which they have engaged with the debate. We believe we are taking forward a Bill that all parties fundamentally support, and doing the right thing. I look forward to continuing any of those further discussions on Report.

[Jack Dromey]

To respond briefly, I echo those thanks to all who have played their part in the passage thus far of the Bill, initially through the other place and then through the House of Commons.

I will make two points. First, as I said on Second Reading, this is a good Bill and a welcome step in the right direction. The establishment of the SFGB is welcome indeed. Crucially, we now need to make it effective at the next stages. In Committee we set out, as we said on Second Reading, to further strengthen the Bill and to inject what I called a “sense of urgency” into certain of the provisions contained in the Bill.

Secondly, I hope the Government will reflect on what has been said in respect of both cold calling and default guidance on Report. In conclusion, it would be churlish not to recognise that this is a welcome step in the right direction. I thank both Ministers concerned for their constructive engagement. Would that that was always possible on all occasions on all issues with those on the Government Front Bench. Having said that, it would be churlish indeed not to reflect that engagement. I hope the Ministers accept on Report the overwhelming logic and power of argument in respect of cold calling and default.

Duties of Customs

Guy Opperman Excerpts

Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 20th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Guy Opperman)]

Answer the question.

[Anneliese Dodds]

I just have, if the hon. Gentleman doesn’t mind. The Government have stated that the motions are about that future relationship, and so we have to take them at their word, even if we might have been mistaken in doing that on other issues.

It has been suggested that, if the Government recover a sense of responsibility and sincerity and genuinely engage us in negotiations, albeit after wrongly ruling out a customs union with the EU, it could involve the adoption of deals similar to CETA or the Turkish deal. Now, CETA does not cover agriculture, so if we get a deal on industrial goods procurement and so forth, we might then need, concomitantly, still to have a deal on the protection of sensitive agricultural products, so we would need to have those powers still there. The Turkish bespoke deal, for its part, still necessitates anti-dumping and countervailing duties on both the Turkish and the EU sides.

To conclude, we have to be clear about what amendments (e) and (f) ask for. They do not, in and of themselves, guarantee that the Government will seek continued customs union membership, because they would apply across the piece of whatever arrangements the Government lead us to.