Lord Hanson of Flint
Main Page: Lord Hanson of Flint (Labour - Life peer)Department Debates - View all Lord Hanson of Flint's debates with the Home Office
(1 day, 13 hours ago)
Lords ChamberTo ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking (1) unilaterally, and (2) in co-operation with other member states of Interpol, to prevent the abuse of Interpol red notices and diffusions by Russia.
The Government take any misuse of Interpol systems extremely seriously. We will work with the National Crime Agency and Interpol to monitor safeguards, including the Notices and Diffusions Task Force, which scrutinises red notices and diffusions. We will also work with like-minded countries through Interpol’s governance structure to strengthen safeguards and take action against abuse, including by Russia.
My Lords, nobody who practises in this area of the law—I declare that interest—will be surprised by Russia’s abuse of the system to target its political opponents abroad. Ben Keith, a barrister well known for his expertise in this area of law, has recently written in the Times:
“Russia has been the worst offender for years”,
despite Interpol claiming, since the invasion of Ukraine in 2022, that it has the matter under control. Will the Minister ensure that, on our own and with our democratic allies, we take robust and effective measures to prevent Russia abusing the system, most obviously by not allowing Interpol to publish any red notices or diffusions unless they have been previously examined in detail?
I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord for his question. He will know that Interpol is responsible for its own governance and structure; we are simply a part of that. We are keen to ensure that standards are maintained. That is why we play a role in the various committees to uphold scrutiny of these issues. Indeed, there is currently a UK candidate in the election for members of the body that examines red notices. It is important that those standards are maintained. If there are breaches then Interpol will take action, not the UK Government independently.
My Lords, given that Russia has applied for 46% of the 6,370 Interpol red notices out at the moment, do the Government not think that this country should press against the slow, inefficient and not very effective appellate process, place the burden for proving such applications on the arresting state, and press for appeals founded on the merits of each individual case?
Any misuse of Interpol tools, including red notices, is taken seriously by this Government and, I would suggest, by Interpol itself. There are robust safeguards in place: 100% of red notice requests are reviewed before publication by the Interpol Notices and Diffusions Task Force and the UK is an active participant in the governance committee for data processing, which discusses all aspects of Interpol’s constitution. There are sensitive matters for discussion. The noble Lord has made suggestions. Ultimately, it is for Interpol to determine its procedures.
My Lords, earlier this year, the BBC’s extensive investigation revealed that Russia had used Interpol’s messaging system to find the whereabouts of a person, even though Interpol had already turned down a request for a red notice. Are safeguards in place to ensure that UK officials do not pass information through this system? Will those messages be given the same level of scrutiny as red notices?
There are strict rules by which Interpol deals with these matters. Obviously, we will participate in helping Interpol to scrutinise those rules but, ultimately, it is for Interpol itself to determine how it deals with requests and how they are scrutinised. There is an important mechanism in place. The UK is very keen to ensure that scrutiny takes place, and we have measures whereby all requests are scrutinised and considered. Any abuse of those requests will be considered as very serious action by both Interpol and the UK Government.
My Lords, what progress, if any, has been made in implementing any or all of the recommendations of the Joint Committee on Human Rights report on transnational repression, published in July 2025, which drew on the submissions of more than 180 experts? In particular, is the Minister revisiting the JCHR’s calls for a review to consider mechanisms for alerting individuals about politically motivated red notices, along with a mechanism to protect British nationals abroad, and the committee’s calls for enhanced police and immigration staff training? Has that report led to any changes in the handling of red notices or to greater cross-departmental and international co-operation?
The noble Lord will remember that we had a debate on the report in this House in February. The Government will look at all the recommendations; we keep all the matters under review. I will certainly give him an update in writing, if I may, on progress on implementation of the recommendations that we have accepted. He will know that we did not accept all the recommendations—that is the nature of Governments and Select Committee reports—but I will give him a full response on where we are to date with their implementation.
My Lords, the United States has addressed misuse of Interpol red notices by passing two related pieces of legislation—the so-called TRAP Acts. Given the deluge of threats from Russia and its ongoing campaign of transnational repression, will the Government show leadership and pass similar legislation in the United Kingdom?
We are trying to play a constructive role in scrutinising red notices and other methods by Interpol as a whole. Ultimately, the governance of Interpol, which comprises 196 countries, is a matter for Interpol. We will help support Interpol in that scrutiny but, ultimately, it is for Interpol to determine its governance and operations.
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his several answers but they give the impression that the Government are being a little passive. I agree that there are a huge number of members of Interpol, but it requires leadership from a major country such as the UK to engender some sense of enthusiasm for the proper scrutiny of red notices issued by countries such as Russia, which we all know—and he, his department and the Government as a whole know—is fiddling the system and causing abuse. Could the Minister, perhaps later this afternoon, have a word with some of his colleagues in government and ask them to move this up a gear?
I never wish to give the noble and learned Lord the impression that I am not taking things as seriously as he would wish. The UK believes there are robust safeguards in place: 100% of red notice requests are reviewed before publication by the Interpol Notices and Diffusions Task Force, and the UK is an active participant in the Interpol governance committee for data processing, which discusses all aspects of Interpol’s constitution, including safeguards against misuse. We strongly support Interpol’s efforts to ensure that systems are in place and, where necessary, we will continue to press for reform on those matters. I return to the point that, ultimately, we are one part of a 196-member organisation; it is for Interpol as a whole to determine its governance and its responsibilities in those areas.
My Lords, further to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Alton—I should declare that I am sanctioned by Russia—in September the UN rapporteur at the human rights office said that the industrial-scale transnational repression by Russia, including the abuse of Interpol procedures, warranted much further UN action, including the concept of a binding UN convention on transnational repression. Transnational repression is not codified in our legislation in those specific terms, but will we support UN efforts to ensure that Russia does not get away with abusing Interpol, and support other methods to ensure that transnational repression is cut out from the UK entirely?
I share something in common with the noble Lord: I am also sanctioned by Russia, which is an interest that I declare. It is a matter for the Russians; they decided to sanction me for the Russia report that I wrote with the Intelligence and Security Committee back in 2019 when I was a Member of the other House. We will always hold Russia to account, particularly since the invasion of Ukraine, for its international transgressions. We will work with Interpol in this context to ensure that there is proper and effective scrutiny of red notices, and that they are not used for persecution or for political purposes.
My Lords, the Minister has concentrated, quite properly, on the governance of Interpol and its responsibilities. However, when a red notice is received in the UK a responsibility is placed on our Government and our police forces. It might help people to be reassured about how that process is managed to ensure that an improper red notice is not acted on to locate, arrest or attempt to extradite to another country.
As the noble Lord will know, a red notice is not an extradition agreement; it is a request for information surrounding an individual. There are lots of safeguards in the UK with regard to that information, but in the context of the Question—and this is a perfectly legitimate point that all noble Lords have made in this case—the governance and work on this issue ultimately remains a matter internationally for Interpol.