Railway Stations: Ticket Office Closures

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I hope the noble Lord has fed that back into the consultation, where it will be taken into account by the independent passenger bodies.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that Transport for London introduced an almost identical scheme a few years ago? It went extremely smoothly; nobody noticed or complained about it once it had been implemented, and it has greatly benefitted passengers.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is exactly right. It was a former Conservative Mayor of London who took this step for ticket offices in Tube stations. The current Mayor of London came in with great fury and said he was going to review the whole thing and make changes if appropriate—not a single change was made.

Rail Ticket Offices

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Wednesday 12th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

That is absolutely at the front of our minds when considering these changes. The ORR also published statistics which showed that there has been a 68% increase in passengers who need assistance to use our railways. Of course, getting people out from ticket offices and on to platforms and into gathering areas and waiting rooms to enable those people to travel more freely is top of mind.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that—

Global Britain: Traffic

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Monday 15th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effect on the success of their ‘Global Britain’ initiative that, for a second year in a row, the Inrix Global Traffic Scorecard has found London to have the highest traffic delay times of any city in the world.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the balance of transport choices in London, including the relative importance given to car traffic, is a matter for the mayor and Transport for London. However, with the opening of the Elizabeth line last year, London’s reputation for efficient and modern transport has been demonstrated globally, an achievement for which many, including the noble Lord, can share credit.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, with bicycle lanes that have not increased the uptake of bicycling as a mode of transport, with ULEZ extended to parts of London that neither need nor want it, and with a Labour-run local authority now tendering out its speeding enforcement to unsleeping robots to maximise its revenue, does my noble friend the Minister not realise that people are at the end of their tethers and expect the Government to act to defend them from these depredations?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is asking me to withdraw from the devolution agreement for London. We have no plans to do that, and I encourage Londoners to hold the mayor to account.

Bus Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Thursday 30th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I keep hearing this from the Labour Party, and I am not entirely sure which regulations and powers Labour is proposing to give back to local transport authorities. As the noble Lord well knows, at the moment, local transport authorities are required to produce an enhanced partnership, which is between them and the bus operators. If they do not want to do that, they can take all the powers they want and franchise the whole system.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend be issuing guidance to plumbers and electricians on how to carry their tools and equipment on a bus, especially in outer London, since the Mayor of London appears determined to deprive them of their vans?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Questions is fun today, isn’t it? The Government will not be issuing guidance to plumbers and electricians, on the basis that they probably know how to carry their tools. We are looking with great interest at the Mayor of London’s proposed extension of ULEZ. I would also point out that he announced—yesterday, I think—something called the Superloop for outer London, which sounded very new. However, I checked and in my area that includes the existing X26, so the Superloop involves quite a substantial amount of rebranding, as often happens with the Mayor of London.

Bus Industry Support

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not entirely sure that I follow the noble Lord’s thinking that, just by devolving it, the same amount of money will provide services at a lower cost. It is the case that local authorities get funding to support bus services, including from the fare cap, the bus recovery grant, BSOG and concessions. The simple answer here is that we have to make local transport authorities and bus operators work together more effectively.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, the Built Environment Committee noted in its report last year, which is yet to be debated, that without a continuation of the grant beyond March route mileage would fall by as much as 20%. Like the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, I am grateful to hear that the grant has continued. None the less, newspapers report that overall mileage has fallen by 10% up to only a couple of weeks ago. Does my noble friend the Minister consider this to be a satisfactory situation?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is right that some routes have been changed and others have been reduced. It is the case that, if an operator wants to reduce a route, it must put in an application to the local transport authority, which has the ability then to subsidise or to tender that route. We have to establish a network which matches the revised passenger demand following the pandemic.

Electric Vehicles: Supporting Access

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Monday 6th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government feel that the take-up of electric vehicles should be countrywide. The key thing about rural areas is making sure that they have appropriate access to charge points. We are aware that rural areas are more poorly served than their urban equivalents, which is why we are looking carefully at the amount of support we can give to local authorities. For example, so far, 157 local authorities have applied to the On-Street Residential Chargepoint Scheme—I wish it were more—and we expect 11,000 charge points to be rolled out with this scheme. I really do think that there is an opportunity for rural local authorities to grasp the financial support that the Government have made available.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, quite apart from the cost of electricity, does my noble friend accept that many people in this country are reliant on cars with a price point of roughly £15,000? That would not buy you an electric battery, let alone an electric car. Are the Government not in danger of pricing large numbers of people out of car ownership altogether?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is right that many people do not buy any vehicle. Indeed, fleet operator businesses represent around half of the new vehicles purchased in this country. It is important that those vehicles then come into the secondary used car market once they have ended their useful life within businesses. That happens after around three years, so we expect a number of zero-emission vehicles to come into the used car market in due course. We recognise that there are probably not enough of them there now, but that is just a function of time. We can work with fleet operator businesses and get them to buy new zero-emission vehicles, which will then come into the used car market.

Payments to Train Operating Companies

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Tuesday 15th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I do not accept that at all. It is right that we ensure that our services meet the needs of passengers and are punctual and reliable, and that the contribution from the national taxpayer is appropriate. There will be areas of duplication and areas where efficiencies can be found. The Williams-Shapps Plan for Rail states that in five years’ time, savings of about £1.5 billion should be available after simplification and efficiencies. Those are the things we are trying to drive out of the system. We want passenger services to be as good as we can possibly make them because we really would like people to travel on our railways.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend have a view on the level of unionisation on the railways and what are the consequences of it for the cost of staff and pay?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very important point. All noble Lords will have seen that there is a level of unrest among the unions that represent those working on the railways. Sometimes I feel that their behaviour might be potentially counterproductive in the long term. For example, we have strikes at the moment on the London Underground where, because of the pay deal that was reached a couple of years ago, the staff will be getting a pay increase of 8%.

Global Traffic Scorecard: London

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Wednesday 5th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report by INRIX 2021 Global Traffic Scorecard, published on 6 December; and in particular, its findings (1) regarding the number of hours UK drivers spent in traffic, and (2) that London is the most congested city in the world in terms of traffic congestion.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, although officials have noted the INRIX report, the department makes its own assessment of congestion using the metric of average delay based on seconds of delay per vehicle per mile. This is generally a more accurate way of estimating congestion in contrast to grossing up the total hours lost from a small sample to total driver population, as INRIX has done.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I assume the implication of that Answer from my noble friend is that there is no congestion for us to worry about. I was going to ask her whether the Department for Transport still holds to the assumption that vehicular traffic congestion has an economic cost, or whether it has, since Covid began, altered the methodology by which it applies that assumption, so that it is much less concerned about it.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I reassure my noble friend that we still believe that vehicular congestion has an economic cost; this can be a personal economic cost and a national economic cost. But we do not estimate a total cost of congestion on the road network as a whole; that is not routinely assessed by the department. We look at things such as journey time savings on road schemes appraisal, alongside many other impacts, be they economic, social or environmental, to make the right decisions.

Insulate Britain

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Tuesday 26th October 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the costs to (1) public services, and (2) the wider economy, of the recent campaign by Insulate Britain of obstructing motorways and major roads.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, Insulate Britain’s irresponsible actions have disrupted thousands of people’s lives. National Highways estimates that the financial impact on drivers from time lost during just three days of disruption totals £559,946. This does not include the costs of missed appointments or of managing the incidents, disruption to manufacturing or retail, or the impact of disruption on other days. These costs would have been even higher without prompt action by the police to remove protesters and free up traffic.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, according to the Observer at the weekend, Insulate Britain activists are baffled as to why they are not in jail already. They thought that their campaign would be over in two days, rather than being allowed to go on for five weeks. I think that the rest of the country rather shares their bafflement. As they resume their very expensive campaign of disrupting ordinary people’s lives, can my noble friend say that the Government both have and will deploy the necessary legal powers to bring them before a court of law?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

We are investigating all possible legal avenues to bring these people to justice. National Highways and Transport for London have both rapidly put in place injunctions to deter these sort of dangerous actions. Only yesterday, the High Court granted National Highways an interim injunction banning activities which obstruct traffic and access on any part of the strategic road network—that is, all motorways and major A roads. Last Friday, National Highways applied for committal for contempt of court in respect of nine individuals suspected of breaching injunctions. If found to be in breach, these individuals could face an unlimited fine and/or imprisonment.

North of England: Rapid Mass Transport System

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Monday 28th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the construction of an underground Maglev rapid mass transport system between cities in the north of England.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have thoroughly investigated whether our forthcoming major investment in connectivity between northern cities should be maglev rather than rail. We concluded that rail remains the best option for a number of reasons, the most important being that new conventional rail infrastructure can better be integrated into the existing network.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, maglev is a great British invention increasingly deployed in Asia for high-speed travel. As our world-beating British tunnelling engineers have shown, constructing railways in-tunnel can be cheaper than constructing them on the surface, provided that it stays in-tunnel. However, it seems that every proposal for maglev that comes from the Department for Transport is rebuffed. Can my noble friend explain why her department is so wedded to a 200 year-old technology that, when constructed on the surface, can both cost more and be very annoying for local voters?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am sure all noble Lords will agree that, just because something is old, that does not mean it is useless. We must look at all technologies, and that is precisely what we do. My noble friend makes an important point in saying that systems around the world use this, but just one operational high-speed system does so at the moment: the Shanghai City maglev. There are many others operating at lower speeds—that is, less than 100 mph—and obviously, there is one in construction in Japan, but it is coming up against some cost pressures.

Great British Railway Plans

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Tuesday 22nd June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As it happens, I had a conversation yesterday with all the northern leaders when we met as the northern transport acceleration council. They raised this issue, which is of course one of capacity because there are more services, for example, between Newcastle and London. We have heard the pleas from various areas of the north on the timetabling. We are taking that away and doing what we can, but this is one of the reasons why we need Great British Railways. Timetabling is fiendishly complicated and we need to ensure that local areas are heard and get the services they deserve.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, will my noble friend take this opportunity to rebut the current rumours that Northern Powerhouse Rail is going to be scrapped?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend should not read too much into media reports on the front page of—I think it was—the Yorkshire Post. The Government continue to consider all options for Northern Powerhouse Rail as part of the integrated rail plan. Once that plan is published, we will work with Transport for the North to finalise a business case for Northern Powerhouse Rail. This will need to be consistent with the IRP’s policy and the funding framework.

Britain’s Railways

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Monday 24th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, there will not be two types of passenger service contract. There will be many types because the noble Lord is right. Some may incorporate revenue risk in due course to encourage innovation and get passengers back on to the railways.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, rail fare income is closely correlated with the economic cycle. The new arrangements involve a complete transfer of fare risk from the train operating companies to the taxpayer. This means that the Chancellor of the Exchequer is going to have to be very indulgent towards Great British Railways, especially in an economic downturn, if falling fare income is not to cannibalise the investment programme. Has my noble friend reached a specific agreement with Her Majesty’s Treasury on its approach to this aspect of funding Great British Railways? If so, will it be in the public domain?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The five-year business plan that will be developed by Great British Railways will be in the public domain and it will set out the capital and revenue funding over that period. I agree with my noble friend that passenger demand is challenging to predict as we move out of the pandemic. Evidently there will be risks for the Government as the holder of the revenue risk. The Government have supported the railways to the tune of £8.5 billion in the last financial year. However, on a positive note for the Treasury, we expect that the reform package will deliver savings of around £1.5 billion per year after about five years. That is 15% of pre-pandemic income.

Transport for London: Financial Settlement

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Tuesday 2nd March 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in discussions with Transport for London on a financial settlement (1) for 2021/22, and (2) beyond.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government are committed to providing Transport for London with a financial deal that is sustainable, supports London’s recovery and keeps the capital moving. Any deal must be fair to the UK tax- payer. On 11 January, TfL provided us with a financial sustainability plan, which sets out its plans to achieve financial sustainability by April 2023. The Government hope to announce further Covid-related financial support for TfL shortly.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, TfL has suffered a double blow to its income from the pandemic and from years of irresponsible fare setting by the Mayor of London. While my noble friend grapples with that temporary challenge, will she also bear in mind that a railway needs steady capital investment too, and that there are parts of London Underground operating with signalling and rolling stock that is over 50 years old and is creaking at the seams. Will she, in support of the Government’s infrastructure objectives, seek to ensure that TfL is allowed a medium-term investment programme—however modest—to address these problems?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is quite right: there have been some quite interesting fare increases—or not—from the mayor over recent years. We estimate that over the past four years his fares freeze has cost £640 million, which could otherwise have been spent on capital expenditure. But, as my noble friend knows, transport in London is devolved and it is up to the mayor and TfL to assess the merits of capital projects that they might want to invest in. However, it is absolutely clear that the Mayor of London must set a robust budget, demonstrate that TfL is on a clear path to achieving financial sustainability, and prioritise his capital expenditure. He will have to make difficult choices.

Rail Fares: Flexi-season Tickets

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Thursday 4th February 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness is quite right; the one thing we are going to have to do to get people back on to the railways—indeed, the public transport system as a whole—is to improve passenger confidence in the system. One way to do that is to be at the forefront of being able to provide the most up-to-date air filtration systems and secure the best enhanced cleaning contracts.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, noble Lords may have wonderful, imaginative ideas for playing around with fares, and there may indeed be a commercial case for flexible season tickets, but does my noble friend agree that the future of the railways is best secured if they maximise their own revenues and that the fundamental purpose of commuter fares and season tickets must therefore always be, as with airlines, to increase yields to the railways, thus saving expense for the taxpayer?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I somewhat agree with my noble friend in that, if this were being done in purely commercial terms, that would be the case, and we certainly want to minimise the amount of subsidy from the taxpayer where appropriate. However, the state might also want to intervene for other reasons and use pricing levers; for example, to encourage modal shift and get people out of their cars and on to the rail, particularly for certain types of journeys, and that might include commuting.

Heathrow Airport Expansion

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Thursday 17th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right that the Supreme Court did not give the go-ahead to anything; it simply ruled that the ANPS is lawful. What is the case is that expansion, if Heathrow Airport Ltd decides to do it, would move to the next step, which is the development consent order—that is, the planning approval that would need to happen, which itself is a fairly lengthy process.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, even with two fully operating runways, Heathrow imposes an intolerable noise burden on local communities, well in excess of safe WHO standards. With a third runway, this will only get worse. In the light of that, may I tease my noble friend into saying what thought the Government might have given recently to the prospect of a new hub airport, located well away from human habitation to the east of the capital?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, it is Christmas, but I will not be teased. The noble Lord raises the question of noise and it is a good point. I have already noted that aircraft are quieter than they used to be, but this is an appropriate time to mention airspace modernisation. This programme, which will happen over the next few years, will make sure that aircraft can land and take off on a steeper trajectory, which should have noise benefits around airports.

Railways: Fare Structures

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Lord Moylan

Tuesday 17th November 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am sure that the noble Baroness will understand that I could not possibly comment on rumours, but I refer her to the answer that I just gave to the noble Lord, Lord Snape, about the Government’s plans for any increase in regulated rail fares.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, public transport must provide sufficient capacity to meet demand in peak periods and so has excess capacity at other times of the day. If public transport is to maximise its own fares revenue and avoid dependency on the taxpayer, does my noble friend the Minister agree that operators should be allowed to offer a broad and flexible range of non-regulated fares so as to recognise variations in demand, and that a move to a rigid and simple fares regime is likely to force unnecessary increases in many fares?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, fares revenue remains a core component of funding for the railways, and I agree that it is important that train operators manage their businesses in line with taxpayers’ interests. Any proposals for changes to fare structures will, of course, be discussed with train-operating companies to ensure that they deliver for both passengers and taxpayers.