HS2 Ltd: Costs

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Wednesday 25th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am delighted to reassure the noble Baroness that that is precisely what we are doing. We have looked at the land for phase 2a and concluded that we do not need it for other rail projects. Therefore, safeguarding will be formally lifted. However, we will not lift the formal safeguarding for phase 2b until next summer, because there is a job of work to be done. The noble Baroness is absolutely right: the Government will not sell off the land until we have established which bits will be needed for projects such as Northern Powerhouse Rail.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, on top of the financial fiasco surrounding HS2 that has already unfolded, it appears that the Government are about to add what High Speed Rail Group calculated as more than £100 million of further losses to the taxpayer in the fire sale of land that had been acquired along the route. Will the Minister respond to comments made by Sir John Armitt and the National Infrastructure Commission that it would be a mistake to sell off the land that the Government bought and that they should keep their options open?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are keeping their options open as necessary.

Railway Stations: Ticket Office Closures

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Wednesday 20th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right. This is not a one-size-fits-all process; this is a consultation, and we will look to see what the independent passenger bodies say when they have finished reviewing all the consultation responses. We believe that that will be towards the end of October.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned already the situation for disabled and elderly passengers. They already face barriers to using public transport, which will be made much worse by these proposals. Given that only 3% of blind people are able to use the ticket vending machine, how will the Government ensure that they can still use the railway network?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government have been consulting with various accessibility groups, alongside industry, over the period, and have taken their views into account. That has included invitations to the Royal National Institute of Blind People, the Royal National Institute for Deaf People, the National Autistic Society and the Multiple Sclerosis Society— I have an entire list, which I will not read out right now. Accessibility is at the heart of what we are doing here. We are trying to improve passenger service. The ORR’s latest annual consumer report shows that passenger assistance bookings have increased significantly. I am delighted to say that disabled people are coming back to the railways.

High Speed 2

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not an unmitigated failure of Conservative rail policy that, yesterday, in the other place, its own chair of the Transport Committee commented on the false economy of what is supposed to be the fast rail network that delivers against levelling-up goals, but which will reach neither the great cities of the north or central London? He said that HS2

“would not realise the full benefits of the line and communities will have been enormously impacted for no great benefit”.—[Official Report, Commons, 18/9/23; col. 1109.]

Back in March, when reports of a delay emerged, I told the House that this chronic indecision was benefitting no one. Now, through a photograph published in the Independent, we learn that the route could be scaled back even further. Given that, in January this year, the Chancellor said that he could not see any conceivable circumstance in which HS2 would not end at London Euston, can the Minister confirm that the line will not terminate at Old Oak Common and when, if ever, it will reach Manchester?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

There has been an awful lot of media speculation and hypotheticals. As noble Lords will know, the Department for Transport, and indeed every single government department, will periodically look at major infrastructure projects, which in this case includes HS2. We are committed to keeping the House updated, as we have done for many years. There will be a regular six-monthly report on HS2 to keep the House updated in due course.

West Coast Main Line

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her very prompt letter, which she sent today, setting out the details of this contract. But I am sure that beleaguered passengers on the failing west coast rail services must have been baffled to see the companies that run them being rewarded for that failure with lucrative government contracts.

The latest ORR rail performance stats from August 2023—only a month ago—confirmed that Avanti West Coast is the second worst performing operator in the country for punctuality of rail services, with only 48% of its services on time. It also had the most complaints of any operator. CrossCountry, which has also seen its contract extended, was the fourth worst performing operator, with only 51.4% of its services on time in August 2023, compared with the national average of 70%. Can the Minister tell us what has been built into these new contracts to ensure that Avanti and CrossCountry do not continue to fail passengers and yet see themselves and their shareholders continue to be rewarded?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, there will be various elements that are set out in the contract and are a commercial matter. I felt that the noble Baroness did not give quite enough credit to Avanti for the amount of improvement we have seen since the removal of rest day working with no notice back in July 2022. But let us not look at the industry performance scores; let us ask passengers. The net advocacy scores for Avanti have improved enormously, from minus 42 in January to plus 17 in April and plus 10 in August. Passengers and the Government are seeing the improvement in Avanti and that is why we awarded it this contract.

National Air Traffic Services: Operational Failure

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Lord raises an interesting point. As I said, when the investigations around this are completed and the reports are available, potential next steps will be considered, particularly around mitigations to ensure that this does not happen again.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I think we are all a bit fed up with hearing that lessons will be learned. We have had a number of really serious incidents recently when that has come out again and again. As the noble Lord, Lord Young, said, more than 2,000 flights were cancelled, which meant that many thousands of passengers, including members of my family—and I am sure Members of your Lordships’ House—were left at chaotic airports with no information, help or support from airlines. It was utterly miserable, expensive and very concerning for all those affected. That has now become a routine occurrence during periods of disruption. If lessons are going to be learned, how quickly will the investigation report, will airlines be held to account, and will the enforcement powers for the CAA come forward in the King’s Speech?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I noted, and as I believe noble Lords will be aware, the preliminary report from NATS was submitted to the CAA yesterday. It was then transmitted to the Secretary of State, and it will be made public in due course by either the CAA or NATS—obviously, those two organisations will be carrying out the investigation into this. When we have that report, we will be able to consider what next steps can be taken.

Network Rail: Ely Area Capacity Enhancement Programme

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, when it comes to any enhancement on the rail network, the Government do a very detailed analysis to devise the business case for each and every one of the enhancements. We are of course doing that for Ely, but we are doing it in the context of revised and different travel patterns and an increased focus on freight. It is necessary for us to go through the processes to understand which projects can be prioritised.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, Ely, like over 1,000 railway stations in England, currently has a much-valued ticket office. Government plans unveiled today will axe this, alongside every other station ticket office in the next three years. Customers and rail staff are concerned that this will lead to increased crime rates at stations. A loss of customer support will cause confusion and make travelling difficult for the vulnerable and elderly. Have the Government carried out an impact assessment on safety and accessibility if these closures go ahead?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, if Ely currently has a ticket office, it will remain a staffed station: there will be no changes to whether a station is staffed or not. In terms of crime, the British Transport Police advise that passenger safety is not dependent on selling tickets from a ticket office. The Government have done an extensive amount in respect of impact assessments and discussions with accessibility and wider passenger groups. The industry will continue to do so and, in bringing forward its proposals, it will of course do an impact assessment.

Low Traffic Neighbourhoods

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 3rd July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As I said earlier, that is a matter for the council.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, local authorities are still having to rely on outdated guidance from 2007 for the design and modification of residential streets. In a debate in the other place in November last year, Minister Richard Holden referred to the Department of Transport publishing a revised version of the Manual for Streets early in 2023. Can the Minister please give us update on when we can expect that new manual?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Yes, I can indeed. The Manual for Streets is an important document on which we have engaged closely with stakeholders. That engagement is still under way but I can commit to the noble Baroness that the document will be published soon.

Strategic Highways Company (Name Change and Consequential Amendments) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 5th June 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness and noble Lord who have contributed to the debate, and to the Minister for her clear explanation, at least of the purpose of the regulations. On the face of it, as the noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, said, this is a fairly straightforward process of updating a number of pieces of legislation with the current name of National Highways, and we would not want to object to the statutory instrument from that point of view.

However, I pick up on some of the questions that have been asked previously but on which I could not trace any detailed answer from Ministers in the other place or your Lordships’ House. First, my noble friend Lord Berkeley referred to the change from Highways England and set out some of the confusion that might arise because different descriptions are used in different pieces of legislation. In different countries of the UK, different names apply. That is very confusing. The noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, also referred to that. It seems blindingly obvious to me that National Highways England would have been a better name. She also referred to the rationale for the change being rather weak. I agreed with that when I read the explanation.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee suggested that the Minister may wish to explain the name, given that “national” is confusing for an organisation focused on only one nation of the UK. I hope the Minister will give us a full explanation so that we can all understand how it applies to different pieces of highways legislation that reflect different parts of the UK.

Secondly, it was my experience in local government that the new name of the agency is not commonly known, resulting in the term Highways England still being in very common usage. Do the Government intend to do anything further to communicate the change of name once the situation between the four nations has been clarified?

The regulations have the stated aim of future-proofing the legislation against any future name changes. Does the Minister have any plans to update other legislation to future-proof against potential name changes of other bodies? We have heard a couple of suggestions: we might have National Highways Wales or National Highways Scotland. Your Lordships will appreciate that I ask this question because we all know that name changes and subsequent rebranding come at considerable cost. The Minister referred to digital, legal, administrative and communication costs, and so on, and my noble friend Lord Berkeley also referred to them.

Lastly, I note that the Minister said that road traffic orders will not be changed. Presumably, this means that local authorities need have no concerns about any legal challenges that might arise as a result of the fact that the name of the agency has now changed. Those are my questions; I thank the Minister.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I am enormously grateful for noble Lords’ contributions in this brief debate on this statutory instrument. I will do my best to answer their questions and perhaps address some of the ideas that have come forward in this Grand Committee about other names that might have been used; I am afraid that I do not agree with noble Lords there.

I turn first to cost, which was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley. National Highways met the cost of the name change from within its budget and kept costs to a minimum. There has been no “big bang” rebranding, as there was never intended to be and there does not need to be. Existing items and assets such as uniforms and fleet vehicles will continue to use the old branding until they reach their end of life. We estimate the total cost of the change to be around £312,000.

The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, asked whether it matters that this change is not commonly known. From my experience in my several years as Roads Minister, it is becoming known and will feed out into the system. It is not the end of the world if somebody calls National Highways “Highways England”. Indeed, this leads back to the rationale for this statutory instrument. It does not bring about the name change; the name change happened at Companies House.

The noble Baroness, Lady Humphreys, talked about a new organisation. There is no new organisation. Exactly the same organisation exists, with exactly the same company number as exists in many long-term contracts and other such things that are held by the organisation. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, that things like TROs—traffic regulation orders—DCOs and other local orders will continue to be valid.

Basically, the legal assessment is that it is clear from Companies House that the name change has been made. Let us project ourselves 15 or 20 years down the road to when some of your Lordships—including me—are perhaps no longer in our roles. People might say, “Hang on a minute, what’s this Highways England?” That is why we are doing this; it is for many years hence rather than for now. We do not believe that there is any significant risk of there being legal challenges because the name change sits in Companies House and will say “formerly known as Highways England” there. So that exists, but one never knows what will happen in the future.

I turn back to the rationale for doing this, which brings in many of the questions asked by the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley—indeed, by all speakers. Noble Lords asked, “Why did you do it? Surely Highways England does England”. That is not right, which is the point that we were trying to get across in the Explanatory Memorandum and that I tried to get across in my opening remarks. National Highways does a large number of things and is hugely respected. It has a different remit in different pieces of legislation. However, it does an awful lot of non-statutory work as well.

For example, I am perfectly comfortable calling National Highways “national” because it develops highway standards that are used across the UK. It is leading the way on the delivery of greener roads; that information is used by all parts of the UK. It is also developing road infrastructure standards for the connected and autonomous era, which refers to self-driving vehicles. Again, that sort of work will be used throughout the UK. I am not suggesting at all that, any minute now, National Highways will take over the strategic road network—or anything else—in Wales or Scotland. I am saying that what it does and has done for a long time is work closely with the devolved Administrations to ensure that we do not have completely different standards in different parts of the United Kingdom because, clearly, that would not be particularly positive.

Again, this is all about collaboration when it comes to strategic roads, which do not end at a specific border. It is the case that the A1 switches over to Transport Scotland as it crosses the border but that does not mean that we have to dismiss the work that National Highways does in many other really important statutory and non-statutory areas and suddenly get a bit funny about the name. That is why “National Highways England” does not work. It is not about just England; that is the whole point.

As I have explained, there is no change to National Highways’ remit or Welsh devolution and no new organisation. The only thing that is new is the name. We are bringing this measure in purely so that, many years down the track and in the mists of time, people do not get confused when they look at something that says “Highways England” and wonder. We just want to make sure that that is not the case.

There are two pieces of legislation that we have been unable to future-proof. Should National Highways change its name again—I very much hope that it does not—those two pieces of legislation would need to be amended. However, as I say, I suspect that the chances of that happening are relatively limited.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Before the Minister sits down, can I ask about the questions that we raised on Scotland and Wales? Will National Highways have a different remit in those nations of the UK? I understand the point about it doing certain things across the UK—the Minister mentioned highway standards, greener roads and infrastructure standards—but it will presumably have different roles for the management of roads in Wales and Scotland than it has in England. That is where confusion is likely to occur. Will we end up having more secondary legislation that clearly sets that out?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

It has absolutely no role in the management of roads in Scotland and Wales. It never has had and never will have. I commend this instrument to the Committee.

Driving Licences

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 5th June 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am aware that some form of graduated driving licence has been introduced in Northern Ireland. In Great Britain, we also have a probationary scheme that falls under the new drivers Act, whereby if any new driver gets six points within the first two years, they have their licence taken away and must take their test again. We are working with the industry on insurance. There may be something helpful around telematics in that regard. I do accept that insurance for young drivers is more expensive, and that is because they can often be riskier drivers.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, since 2018 learner drivers have been permitted to take motorway driving lessons with approved driving instructors, but few make use of this rule change. According to a recent AA survey, 83% of drivers say they have never seen a learner on the motorway. Has the department made an assessment of how many driving schools offer motorway lessons, and does the Minister believe that increasing the availability of these would better prepare learner drivers?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point, and that leads back into the graduated learning scheme that we are looking at to ensure that new drivers have the opportunity to try out all sorts of different schemes. We are also looking at one of the interventions from the Driver2020 research, which is a logbook that will record the time and type of driving, including motorway driving. But there are some parts of the country where there are no motorways, so I think it is really important that all driving instructors think about the types of roads they are taking their candidates on to ensure variety.

Trains: Wifi Provision for Passengers

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 25th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The wifi on trains usually runs off the same 4G and 5G system that my noble friend will have on his smartphone, so sometimes there can be reliability issues. It also depends on how many people are using the wifi on the train. It is there for email and other low data usage requirements. It is not really there for streaming, but I accept that sometimes the bandwidth can be a little challenging.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, UK rail passengers already suffer the most expensive rail fares in Europe. Surely they should expect to receive the basics—a seat, working toilets and catering—but too often this is not the case, even on long journeys. Now the Government are planning to advise train operators to remove wifi so passengers will not be able to use their journey time to work. Are the Government stuck in the 19th century? When will His Majesty’s Government recognise that to tackle the climate emergency we need better public transport, not worse?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Of course, the Government regularly survey passengers to find out what they really appreciate about the railways such as reliability, good services, punctuality and clean services. Actually, wifi is very low down on the list of priorities.

Railways: Trans-Pennine Express

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 23rd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the rate of cancellations of Trans-Pennine Express trains, and what criteria they are using to consider the renewal of the contract for Trans-Pennine Express.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, for many months we have made it clear to TPE’s management that its services have been unacceptable. Passengers have faced significant disruption and the northern economy has not had the reliable railway it needs. To allow for the reset that passengers need and expect, the Secretary of State has confirmed that TPE will be brought under the DfT’s operator of last resort when the current contract expires on 28 May.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her Answer, which was so prompt that it was given on 17 May, before I had a chance to ask the Question. The appalling service that customers received from TPE highlights again the lack of co-ordination across the privatised rail service—problems that were supposed to be resolved through the implementation of Great British Railways. Now that the Prime Minister has announced that Great British Railways has been scrapped, can the Minister tell us whether industry reports that £52 million has already been spent on it are correct? Is that money now wasted if GBR has been scrapped?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I must have missed the Prime Minister scrapping GBR, because the Secretary of State has set out his ambition for a customer-focused, commercially led industry. The creation of GBR is, of course, the guiding mind for the sector, but it is true that we can get many of the benefits now. The programme is simplifying and rolling out single-leg pricing across the LNER network, and trialling demand-based pricing to ensure that passenger demand is more evenly spread between services. Of course, the GBR transition team is working on the long-term strategy for rail, which will simplify industry practices and explore new opportunities for the private sector.

Rail Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Wednesday 17th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

I am grateful to both noble Baronesses for their contributions and I will endeavour to answer as many questions as possible. I will start with the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, who asked, “Why now?” Of course, it is very simple: it is because the contract is coming to an end. It is coming to an end on 28 May, so that is why we made the announcement on 11 May that the contract would come to an end and indeed it would then be handed over to OLR. Obviously, the decision was taken after much consideration. It was important to work in accordance with the policy statement that we had already published. We considered carefully whether to extend or award a new contract, and, after very careful consideration and with regret, we decided not to do so.

However, the Government are clear that we want to hold train operating companies accountable for those things that are within their control, and it is also clear that at TPE there were many things that were not in the management’s control and which will have impacted the services that were delivered to passengers. That included a very high level of absence, obviously the complete lack of rest-day working, and some very interesting shenanigans from the noble Baroness’s friends at ASLEF. In April 2023 they were offered literally the same deal for rest-day working that they had in December 2021 but they managed to say that that was not good enough. I do not know—I do not understand it any more. Clearly, we are in a situation where nothing is ever going to be enough, but of course it is the passengers who are suffering at the hands of the Labour Party’s friends.

Other issues have impacted TPE. It has had a much higher level of driver departures than would normally happen: 56 versus 25 in a normal year, and each one takes 18 months to replace. It is with regret that we felt that, despite an encouraging recovery plan, it was not going to reach a good conclusion. The reason why we felt that OLR was the right course of action is because it is an opportunity to reset and review. I say “reset” because there certainly needs to be a resetting of the relationship between TPE and all its stakeholders, whether that be government, the trade unions or indeed, quite frankly, their very poorly served passengers. Everybody within the industry wants TPE to succeed—except, potentially, the trade unions, which are not behaving as they should. I encourage all stakeholders involved in this, which includes the northern mayors and lots of council leaders, to work together to try to reach a good solution.

The Secretary of State has asked for an official review of services across the north to look at their effectiveness and delivery. It is worth recalling, and it seems rarely to get mentioned, that the TPE contract is the joint responsibility of the Department for Transport and Transport for the North, on which many Labour politicians sit. It is important to understand that chucking blame around about how ghastly the department is, is not really very helpful. We all have to work together to improve TPE’s services, and I hope we will be working closely, hand in hand, with Transport for the North to do that.

The noble Baroness once again brought up the issue of profits and dividends. I cannot give her a finance 101 class, because it would be wrong and potentially a bit rude. However, dividends are of course not the same as profits, as I am sure the noble Baroness understands. I cannot address that any further: I have tried before and it probably did not work, so I will just have to leave it.

As the noble Baroness will know, there are a number of reforms that we can do now. The key to that is work- force reform. The transition team is doing the long-term strategic plan. Workforce reform is key, but that has stalled. Why has it stalled? I think the noble Baroness knows the answer without me telling her.

Turning to the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson—

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

On the Minister’s last point, I did raise the issue of management. There are two sides to the story in any industrial relations issue, and there has clearly been some poor management involved here. I am not going to put blame on one side or the other, but I did ask the Minister to comment on how poor management in TPE was going to be addressed. On the issue of profit, TPE passengers find it extraordinary that such huge profits were taken and that they resulted in dividends to shareholders. This company, which had run the service so badly, was being rewarded, as were its shareholders, for that failure. Passengers find that extraordinary.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

But of course they were not. But anyway, we have been around those houses many, many times, and I am frankly unwilling to do so again.

Had the noble Baroness let me finish my remarks, I would indeed have discussed the issue of management, in order to cover some of the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, but as she has once again raised it, this is what I meant by the review and reset moment. It is an opportunity for the OLR to come in. It will look clearly at every aspect of the business, including the recovery plan, with fresh eyes, and I very much hope that there will be a renewed attempt to encourage the trade unions to think very carefully about the future of the rail industry in this country, for which, as I have said before, I am deeply fearful.

Turning to the comment of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about P codes, she seemed to think that there was deception of the Government. I could not quite understand why that would be the case. I absolutely accept that we need to do something about the use of P codes, which are used by very few train operating companies. As she knows, the Office of Rail and Road is looking carefully at how it can improve the coverage of P code cancellations. From an industry perspective, we should make sure that they are almost never used, but sometimes they can be because there is train crew or rolling stock unavailability. Often, P codes can be used because there is engineering work, or whatever, which is clearly beyond the control of the train operating company.

As for somehow deceiving the Government by using P codes, I cannot see how that is possible, because the information about the performance of the train operating companies is assessed by independent evaluators. Unless the noble Baroness is suggesting that the train operating companies are pulling the wool over the eyes of the independent evaluators, of which I can see no evidence at all, I do not think the issue of P codes is wholly relevant in judging performance. It is relevant to the information provided to passengers, and that is why we asked the Office of Rail and Road to dig into it and think about how we can publish the most useful information. Of course, our ultimate goal is not to have short notice cancellations on or before the day due to lack of rolling stock or train crew.

The noble Baroness also mentioned the involvement of regional set-ups in rail, and I agree. That already happens with Transport for the North being involved in both TPE and Northern. Clearly, it is not a silver bullet, because TPE has gone the way it has despite the involvement of Transport for the North, but we agree with her that in future, making sure that strong regional economies are involved in their rail is critical.

We want to progress many elements of rail reform. We will bring legislation forward when parliamentary time allows. On simplified and cheap fares, I hope the noble Baroness has seen the announcement by LNER of a simplified single-ticket system, because that is the direction of travel. We do not want to roll it out across the entire system all at once because that might cause chaos, and then we would be accused of not having thought it through. But we are bringing it out—people will be able to buy tickets halfway through this month, so, very soon—to see how it works, because we believe it is a big step forward. I hope the noble Baroness will try it, and I will be very happy to take feedback from any noble Lord who has a go.

Global Britain: Traffic

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 15th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am grateful to my noble friend for moving that question on. Lane rental schemes are a key part of the challenge of making sure that roadworks are taken down as soon as possible. In London, 69% of the TfL route network—the bit operated by the Mayor of London—is currently covered by lane rental schemes. I encourage all local transport authorities to look carefully at lane rental schemes, as they really can help to get roadworks finished on time.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, despite the funding announced in the Budget, the Government have still slashed pothole funding by almost a quarter in real terms since 2020, and cuts to local government funding leave councils unable to meet this gap from other funds. Does the Minister believe that the millions of potholes which remain unfilled, including those on cycle ways—we have 45 kilometres of them in Stevenage—contribute to traffic delays across the UK?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The Government are investing £8 billion over the next two years in all types of road enhancements and improvements, including £200 million for maintenance and potholes.

Vehicles: Headlamp Glare

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 9th May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not aware that there are specific concerns around wildlife and headlights. There are certainly sometimes concerns about where wildlife crosses a road very frequently, and there is a road sign now available to warn drivers that this may be the case. If the noble Earl has any evidence, I would be very happy to see it.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, in the past decade the number of passenger cars produced in the UK has declined from over 1.5 million to fewer than 800,000. Growing the UK’s motor manufacturing industry would not only provide a real boost to the economy and create jobs but also allow the Government to support the production of better-quality and well-regulated vehicles, including specifying safety features such as headlamp criteria. What steps are the Government taking to support the car manufacturing industry?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Actually, what the Government are doing to support the car manufacturing industry is working in lockstep with our colleagues internationally. As the noble Baroness will know, many of the regulations around type approval for cars come from this international community—about 75%. The extent to which we are able to work with our friends and neighbours in other countries on road safety issues means that this provides the level playing field that the UK automotive manufacturing sector needs.

Merchant Shipping (Fire Protection) Regulations 2023

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 2nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, for moving this regret amendment, which has enabled a good discussion around the issues of compliance on these very important regulations—and I thank the Minister. I certainly get a sense that a real grip is now being taken of some of the issues raised by the amendment. I was grateful for a very detailed and thorough response. I echo the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, in that my comments are certainly not directed at the Minister who is responsible for this now, or at the civil servants dealing with this backlog.

There cannot be many more terrifying prospects than of a fire at sea. The enormous risk to crew and passengers and to those who are charged with rescue, as well as those in adjacent ports and harbours, are incalculable. Therefore, while we would not wish to hold up the implementation of these much-needed regulations, we, too, feel that questions need to be answered relating to the inexplicable delay, in some cases of 20 years, in implementing such a critical safety regime. We note that contained within the wording of the regulation and the Explanatory Memorandum is the detail of a very significant backlog in implementing international legislation which needed very urgent attention from the Government.

We, too, were very grateful for the report of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which pointed out that the IMO requirements on firefighting and fire protection matters were last implemented in 2003. We note the 20 further IMO resolutions agreed that apply to ships of more than 500 gross tonnes, whether carrying cargo or passengers. It quotes DfT figures that there are 440 ships on the UK flag subject to the IMO requirements in this instrument, of which, as the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, 324 are “mostly in compliance” and wholly or partially UK-owned. It is the Maritime and Coastguard Agency that has determined that these are “mostly in compliance”. However, I am a bit concerned about that term as well. What does “mostly in compliance” actually mean? Do we have a specific number of those surveyed, and what are the gaps in compliance? Is the Minister able to estimate how many ships are not currently compliant with these regulations and what steps will be taken to inform them of the importance of compliance before these regulations go any further in being implemented? As the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, “mostly in compliance” is not very reassuring, and I would agree with that.

It is only when these regulations come into effect that the UK can enforce the same requirements on foreign-flagged ships in UK waters. Can the Minister respond to the question asked by the SLSC about why the DfT has taken so long to address the backlog? She partially gave us some answers to that but, as she said, there was a report to the House of Commons from Robert Courts MP in 2021-22, and she stated that the backlog would be cleared by the end of 2023. If I heard her correctly, four of the regulations have taken 20 years to produce. Will we get the other nine done by the end of year? I hope that is the case.

The Minister stated that resources have been a very significant issue in that backlog. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, said that this seems like a systemic failing, and I cannot help but feel the same thing, with all the instances documented by the SLSC. It is very worrying. I wonder whether the Health and Safety Executive, for example, would take as an acceptable justification that resources were the issue, if there was non-compliance. I say that having been the leader of a local authority that was subject to Health and Safety Executive regulations.

I note that there is provision in the instrument for five-yearly reviews, which we are pleased to see with such important safety legislation. However, will sufficient resources be made available to carry out this thorough review process, if they have not been to implement the regulations themselves?

I have a number of questions on the regulations. I note the requirement for the Secretary of State to give approval to submissions relating to ships. Will these approvals be done on submission of written evidence, or will there be a requirement for inspection to ensure compliance with the relevant merchant shipping notices?

In relation to the exemptions set out in Clause 10, how does the Secretary of State reassure himself or herself that the exemption is valid and, under Regulation 10(7), where does the liability sit if the Secretary of State signs off an exemption which is later found to have resulted in loss of property or life? Is it with the owner or master, or with the Secretary of State?

Regulation 11 sets out details of a regime of engineering analysis in relation to exemptions. What analysis has been done of the likely workload for this and the capacity within the DfT to manage the review of the submitted engineering analyses? If the answers to those questions are not available immediately, I am happy to take written responses.

My noble friend Lord Berkeley gave the example of the “Pentalina”. On that incident, I commend the work of the RNLI, which very quickly rescued all 60 passengers, which was its usual fantastic work. I was also very reassured to hear my noble friend with his customary advocacy for Scilly passengers. I want to mention the example of the “Felicity Ace”, given by my honourable friend Mike Kane MP and mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Greenway. The Commons debate on these regulations set out new risks associated with the carriage of electric vehicles on shipping. In this example, which was cited, a serious fire took place on the “Felicity Ace” earlier this year. Some 4,000 cars were being carried, and although, thank goodness, no lives were lost on that occasion, the ship sadly sank to the bottom of the Atlantic, as the fire continued to be fuelled by the lithium batteries in the cars. I am aware that the land-based fire service has some concerns relating to similar risks, so this is clearly an important issue for shipping fire safety regulations to take into account. Can the Minister give us an update on how that risk is being considered, specifically in relation to fire safety on shipping?

The Conference on Fire Safety at Sea, held in 2022 in Lisbon, identified 20 specific challenges for vehicle-carrying ships. These are currently being assessed for their impact on risk reduction and cost, and advisory groups are being set up with operators and flag states. It is estimated that the potential of this work to significantly strengthen independent fire protection is between 35% and 45%. Will that data be considered as these regulations are implemented?

Lastly, I note that only five responses were received to the consultation on these regulations. Can the Minister tell us what consideration was given to extending the consultation or to approaching operators directly to achieve a better response rate? We also note that four of the five consultation responses, while supporting the ambulatory reference provision contained in the regulations—we agree that it is very sensible that these regulations are now updated automatically, as international regulations are updated—asked that arrangements be put in place to consult operators to ensure that changes are discussed with them before they are made. Will the Minister comment on any steps that have been put in place to do this?

We look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to the further points raised in this debate. I am sure there can be no argument relating to the critical importance of safety at sea, so we are keen to hear why this has all taken so long and to learn how any lessons learned from the delay will be used to improve the process for the future. Our maritime nation depends so much on our ability to trade, travel and ship goods safely. We owe it to all those involved to ensure our ships meet the highest fire and other safety standards, without decades of delay for the implementation of internationally agreed regulations. I do not think there is any disagreement across the House on any of that. We need to make sure that the systems and resources are in place to deal with it.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, I am enormously grateful to all noble Lords who have taken part in this short debate covering the ground of the regulations themselves and of course the backlog, which I am aware has been debated a number of times in your Lordships’ House, both in the Chamber and in Grand Committee in the Moses Room. Indeed, we will probably debate it again a few more times before the end of the year, as the backlog will once again resurface, and there will no doubt be further debates on the bits of secondary legislation that come through. However, I believe I can give myself some credit. I was a bit savvy before the debate today, in that I wrote to the SLSC last week; towards the end of the week, I placed a copy of the letter in the Library, and I will obviously share it with all noble Lords who have spoken today. It is the latest update on the international maritime backlog. If I could wish it away, I sincerely would, but I will no doubt be on my feet in front of your Lordships many times to explain that I am doing my absolute utmost to make it go away.

It is important to note that, in all circumstances, resources are never unlimited—they simply are not. The noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, said that I stated that this was a very significant issue. I never said that—I did not say that at all. Of course resources must be considered, and of course any Government of any colour will need to prioritise. In these circumstances, we did prioritise: the Department for Transport and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency prioritise in the secondary legislation that we bring through. The Department for Transport has an enormous secondary legislation programme, and one of the limiting factors is not resources in the department but the time that your Lordships have to consider secondary legislation—parliamentary time is one of our biggest challenges in getting secondary legislation, or indeed other legislation, through.

Network Rail: Funding and Reliability

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Wednesday 26th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, none of the above.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, over the past few months, passengers across England have continued to suffer from really unreliable services, as we have heard this afternoon. Fares have increased by 5.9%. Between October and December last year, 4.5% of all trains were cancelled—the highest rate since 2014. Can the Minister therefore explain why the FirstGroup franchise and Govia Thameslink have recently reported dividend payments of £65 million and £16.9 million respectively in their annual accounts for 2022, despite their continued failings? Does the Minister not agree that that would be better invested in the future of railways?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, once again we shall address the notion of dividend payments, because it is really important that we are clear about it. The dividend payments declared during the financial year 2022 related to periods far preceding that 2022 period, and therefore were earned by the train operating companies under contracts that were in existence at that time. One cannot retrospectively go back and take away money without completely tearing up the contracts and starting again. Maybe a Labour Government would do that, but we will not. We will stick to the contract and work with the industry, and we will get improvements to our rail system that way.

Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Committee stage
Thursday 20th April 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I support Amendment 240 in the names of my noble friends Lord Berkeley and Lord Hunt, the noble Lord, Lord Young, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson. Before I turn to the specific amendments in this group, I will mention the very helpful discussion which took place in Grand Committee on Monday on the Built Environment Select Committee’s report on public transport in towns and cities. The committee’s recommendations were very helpful to our consideration of this Bill. I thank the chair of that committee, the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, and his predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Neville-Rolfe, the members of that committee and all those who gave evidence.

The Minister—the noble Baroness, Lady Vere—was part of that discussion so there is no need for me to go through all the points relevant to the Bill, which I am sure she will pass on to her colleagues in the Transport team and the DLUHC team. However, it was the overwhelming view of the committee and all noble Lords who took part on Monday that a formal link should be introduced between local plans and local transport plans. In view of the amendments in this group, it is important to record that strongly held view today.

Can I say how much I agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, about the importance of transport to the levelling-up agenda? Like the noble Lord, Lord Young, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I too am very pleased to see the Minister responsible for transport here today to respond to the debate. As the fortunate resident of a town designed with 45 kilometres of cycleway built into it, it is unthinkable to me that planning for cycling and walking, and considering at local plan stage the infrastructure needed to support that, would not be in the Bill and intrinsic to the planning for our communities. If this amendment is accepted—I really hope it will be—then the subsequent NPPF or whatever is going to succeed that will need to take account of the anomalies that occur in these aspects of planning in two-tier authorities. My noble friend Lord Berkeley referred to that earlier.

Generally these can be resolved through good liaison between authorities, but consideration should be given, as responsibility for both transport and rights of way sit with county councils, as we have heard, whereas the local plan is the responsibility of the district council. It will also need to be clear in terms of rights of way improvement plans that the responsibilities for maintenance—should it be necessary—ransom strip land purchase and so on remain the responsibility of those authorities which currently hold them. To be clear, the fact that a planning authority includes them in its local plan does not necessarily incur any additional financial or legal responsibility for these matters than existed previously. Concerns about lack of co-ordination through the National Planning Policy Framework were referred to by my noble friend Lord Berkeley, and including this provision in the Bill might encourage authorities to work together where that is not the case already.

In relation to Amendment 468 in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Pinnock and Lady Randerson, I echo comments about the tireless work of the noble Baronesses, Lady Brinton and Lady Grey-Thompson. It is very important to clarify that this should apply to all railway stations, including retrospectively. I know that is a difficult issue and how it works together with other disability legislation, such as the Disability Discrimination Act, should be clearly identified. There are already some provisions in there but I do not think it goes as far as we would want it to and the proof of that is what we see in our local railway stations. We heard many of examples of that during the debate.

It is, of course, crucial that we do all we can to make our rail system accessible, safe and user-friendly for all passengers. Indeed, we will never make the quantum leap in switching from private car travel to public transport that we need to reach zero carbon without such measures. I come back to the Built Environment Select Committee’s inquiry into public transport, which has very clear recommendations on this subject. As the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, said, progress has been painfully slow on this to date and we need a bit of a rocket under it to get it going again. The very helpful introduction of things such as senior railcards is of far less use if you need to navigate several flights of stairs to cross even from one platform to another.

Amendment 470 in the names of my noble friend Lord Berkeley, the noble Baroness, Lady Scott of Needham Market, and the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, requires the Secretary of State to facilitate the accelerated rollout of EV charging points for domestic and commercial customers. I strongly support this very laudable aim but there are still unresolved issues. First, as the noble Lord, Lord Young, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, have both identified, we are already seeing inequalities develop in EV charging provision and we need to watch out for that very carefully, particularly in the context of the Bill.

Then there is the issue of technology and whether it is settled enough yet to encourage the considerable cost of a UK-wide rollout. Many of us in this Chamber will remember the issues around VHS and Betamax. That is the classic example of when, if you jump early to the wrong technology, it can be very expensive indeed. Many noble Lords referred to improvements in very fast charging facilities and the way that picture is developing so rapidly. It is difficult to know when that will settle. The noble Lord, Lord Young, referred to the difference between fast and slow chargers, and we need to make sure that we get the most up-to-date provision wherever it is possible.

Secondly, in terms of domestic provision, the complex issues referred to by noble Lords by this afternoon of on-street charging must be resolved. For those fortunate enough to have a drive or land at the side of their property where charging points can be installed, it is not such an issue, but if you live in a terraced street and in housing where that is not so easy to do, it is. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, rightly made the point that this should not interrupt easy walking access for residents. For properties with no adjacent parking, installation of EV charging points can prove expensive and very disruptive in terms of cable laying and so on. My noble friend Lord Berkeley raised this issue too; we have to be concerned about it. Lastly, I have a slight concern that giving this responsibility in legislation to the Secretary of State will simply result in it and potentially the resultant cost and headaches being transferred to local authorities. That is something we need to think carefully about.

I also agree with noble Lords who have said that National Grid really has to get its act together on this issue. Even in developments I have been engaged with in my own borough, it is very often National Grid that really holds things up on many of the measures that we want in levelling up and regeneration. We need to work on how National Grid can respond more quickly to these developments.

No doubt, all those issues could be considered and resolved and there is clearly an urgent need to accelerate the provision of EV charging. My noble friend Lord Berkeley mentioned 8,000 public charging points. This is woeful. The noble Lord, Lord Young, mentioned that this has been flagged up for over 30 years now. We can all remember talking about this many decades ago, so surely it is time now that we made urgent progress.

I turn now to Amendment 482 from the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle. At the moment, some local authorities do a very good job of making the case to residents in their communities for reducing speed limits, and I pay tribute to campaign organisations such as 20’s Plenty for Us that are producing fantastic support on that. In addition to the points that have been made about it, I also mention that the reduction in pollutants at lower speed is a key issue here as well as the other benefits in noise pollution, safety for other road users and so on.

We believe that this is an area where decisions are far better taken locally so that benefits can be explained fully as the change is implemented. I pay tribute to Hertfordshire County Council, which has worked very closely across the county with local councillors and their communities to develop an evidence base, introduce consultation with members and the communities that they represent and then put appropriate funding allocation in place, first on a pilot basis and then more widely across the county. That is a very good example, and it was lovely to hear another example of how the Welsh Labour Government are leading the way in this respect.

Amendment 486 in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, refers to the need for the Government to update Parliament on progress against their EV infrastructure strategy, which was published in March 2022. Irrespective of the comments I made earlier about the complexities of introducing EV charging, at the very least the Government should be delivering against the strategy they have set for themselves. The disparity in provision from place to place is as important as the sheer number of charging points available, so we certainly support the amendment.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to make my debut on the LURB. I am sorry that it has taken so long, but I may be back again in due course, should there be more transport amendments. Today, it is my job to address this group of amendments, which relate to transport; there are four, and I shall address each in turn.

I start with Amendment 240, in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, which relates to cycling and walking and to the role of active travel in local development. I think that all noble Lords agree that the Government recognise the importance of walking and cycling and the role that the planning system plays in enabling development in sustainable locations, supported by active travel infrastructure. It is already the case that national planning policies must be considered by local authorities when preparing a local plan and are a material consideration in all planning decisions. The Bill does not alter this principle and will strengthen the importance of those national policies which relate to decision-making.

The existing National Planning Policy Framework is clear that transport issues, including opportunities to promote walking and cycling, should be considered from the earliest stages of plan-making and when considering development proposals. The NPPF also states that policies in local plans should provide for attractive and well-designed walking and cycling networks with supporting facilities, such as secure cycle parking, drawing on local cycling and walking infrastructure plans. The NPPF also places environmental objectives at the heart of the planning system, making it clear that planning should protect and enhance our natural environment, mitigate and adapt to climate change, and support the transition to a low-carbon future. The Government have recently concluded a consultation on changes to the NPPF to ensure that it contributes to climate change mitigation and adaptation as fully as possible.

I always react with some trepidation when my noble friend Lord Young of Cookham shares his thoughts with your Lordships’ House. He has an enormous amount of experience in this area—and, it would seem, in most areas of government. He challenged me to explain why we think the guidance will achieve our aims. I believe that it is more than just guidance; the NPPF and the new national development management policy set out the Government’s planning policies for England and how they should be applied. These are material considerations in planning decisions. The power in securing positive change for communities is substantial and should not be referred to as just “guidance”.

There is another step forward—perhaps slightly towards where my noble friend would like us to be—with Active Travel England. Many noble Lords will know that Active Travel England was set up relatively recently, and its role will expand over time. It will become a statutory consultee on certain major planning applications from June this year. That means that local planning authorities will be required to consult ATE on planning applications, where developments meet one of the following minimum thresholds: where it has 150 residential units; where it is 7,500 square metres of commercial area; or where it is a site with an area of 5 hectares or more. Furthermore, ATE will also take an active role in supporting the preparation of local plans and design codes.

It is also worth reflecting that local plans must be put in place quickly, and so we must avoid imposing a plethora of additional statutory requirements which local authorities must have regard to, especially when clear expectations are already set through national policy. There is one other—

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My apologies for also interrupting the Minister. I know that she has not been part of previous discussions on the National Planning Policy Framework with regard to the Bill, or the sequence of events as to when we will see the finalised version of the NPPF, but noble Lords have expressed concern that we are being told that some things are going into one, while other things are going into the other. Because we will not see the finalised version of the National Planning Policy Framework before the end of Committee—unless the Bill goes on even longer than it already has—we have concerns that we will not understand what is going into one and what is going into the other. I repeat that point again, because it is very important to some of the previous points under discussion in earlier days in Committee about how the two fit together.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Indeed, I am aware that those conversations have been happening and, as a Transport Minister, perhaps I had better not add anything further. However, it is worth highlighting that the Government are taking forward other policies for cycling and walking, which I believe will be helpful to local authorities in thinking about how cycling, walking and active travel are taken into account when it comes to local development. The Manual for the Streets guidance is incredibly important and is being updated. We are also planning to refresh the guidance supporting the development of the local transport plan.

It is also worth noting the tens of millions of pounds that the Government have awarded to local transport authorities to upskill the capacity and capabilities of their staff to ensure that things happen. For example, the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, mentioned her council in Kirklees, where things all seem to be tickety-boo. Therefore, I would expect other local authorities to look at that council to try to emulate that because, essentially, we want local decisions to be taken locally—that is at the heart of this matter.

I turn now to the amendment on railway accessibility in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock. I appreciate the contributions made by the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, and the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, providing details of specific areas where we need to make improvement. Improved access to the railway is a key priority for the Government. The Transport Secretary is committed to funding transport infrastructure improvements, including improvements to stations to make them more accessible for disabled passengers. The Department for Transport has already invested £383 million under the Access for All programme between 2019 and 2024, and there is more to come.

The Design Standards for Accessible Railway Stations, published in 2015, set out the standards that must be met when new railway infrastructure or facilities are installed, renewed or replaced. Noble Lords may question the date of 2015 and say that it is a little while ago, but I reassure them that the process is being set out at the moment as to how the standards will be refreshed.

Noble Lords will also be aware that the Government have now completed an audit of all stations across the network. That data will be shared with Great British Railways; it will be made public; and that will be very helpful for ensuring that as many people as possible who are less mobile can travel. I accept, however, that some stations remain less accessible. Can we fix them all at once? I am afraid we cannot, but I would like to reassure the Committee that all stations, regardless of size and location, are eligible for funding under the Access for All programme.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness would probably decline to make a comment on that at this moment, as that would take us far away from the area of accessibility, which is under consideration today. However, the noble Baroness asked whether progress had been made. So far, step-free accessible routes have been delivered at 200 stations, and smaller-scale access improvements have been made at 1,500 stations. We have made progress; there is much more progress to come; and we are absolutely committed to making it.

Amendments 470 and 486 relate to the charging of electric vehicles, I share all noble Lords’ concerns about electric vehicle charge points and how important they are as we decarbonise our transport system. The first of the two amendments seeks to amend the Electricity Act 1989 to add an explicit reference to electric vehicle charge point provision in addition to the need to

“secure that all reasonable demands for electricity are met”.

The Electricity Act 1989 already requires the Secretary of State to give regard to securing that all reasonable demands for electricity are met. This requirement already includes the charging of electric vehicles. We therefore believe that the amendment is unnecessary, and indeed that it might be unhelpful to other equally critical areas of the decarbonisation effort such as, for example, heat pumps. In carrying out this duty under the Electricity Act, the Secretary of State works closely with Ofgem, as the independent energy regulator is responsible for regulating network companies to ensure that sufficient grid capacity is built and operated to meet consumer demand. Of course, we work very closely with Ofgem as price controls are developed, so that our work aligns to meet the needs of customers, including electric vehicle users.

We are investing £3.1 billion for network upgrades to support the uptake of electric vehicles and heat pumps. This is significant upfront funding and, combined with an agile price control system for net zero-related expenditure, it will enable the investment in the network infrastructure needed to facilitate heat and transport electrification.

There were a number of questions around the provision of charge points themselves. The noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, asked about new homes. We laid legislation that came into force in June last year requiring most new homes and those undergoing major renovation with associated parking in England to have a charge point or a cable route for charge points installed from the outset. We estimate that this will lead to the installation of up to 145,000 new charge points across England every year.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked about home and business charge points. The Government have supported the installation of about 400,000 of these charge points. Of course, there will be many, many more out there that have been installed without government support—and, to my mind, long may that continue.

I turn now to the second of the two amendments on charge points, which relates to reporting. I do not believe that this amendment is necessary, because I am pleased to confirm that the Government routinely publish monthly and quarterly EV public charging device statistics. These are broken down by device speed category, region and local authority area. The latest report outlined that, as of 1 April, there are more than 40,000 available public charging devices, of which more than 7,600 are rapid or above charging devices—a 33% increase. We also routinely publish the number of devices funded through government grant schemes. As I pointed out, many more will be installed that are not funded by the Government, and we would not necessarily be able to find out where they are. If there is further information that the noble Baroness would like about public charging points that we might reasonably be able to gather, I would be very happy to discuss this with her further. I have noted the other comments on EV charge points and will reflect on them further.

Finally, I turn to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, about a blanket reduction on restricted roads from 30 to 20 miles per hour. I noted some of the comments from the noble Baroness, and I agreed with some of them. None the less, I am not convinced that a blanket application of this lower speed limit is appropriate because, again, it would undermine local decision-makers’ ability to set the most appropriate speed for the roads in their area, based on local knowledge and the views of the local community. Actually, I am pleased that the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, agrees with me. Indeed, she seems to agree with me for England but not for Wales, where it is not something that a local authority can decide.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I believe there was widespread consultation from the Welsh Government with Welsh local government in terms of doing this. I have that in my notes, but my notes are a bit scribbly and I missed it out. May I just make the point that the Welsh Government, as they always do, have consulted very widely with Welsh local government on this?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

That is fantastic to hear, and I am sure that all local authorities 100% agreed with the Welsh Government in that regard.

The second element to this is that a blanket approach would be—

Bus Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 30th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of trends in the provision of bus services in England since 2019.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Transport (Baroness Vere of Norbiton) (Con)]

My Lords, Covid-19 resulted in significant reductions to passenger numbers and bus service levels. To mitigate that, the Government have provided over £2 billion in emergency and recovery funding to keep vital bus services running. On 9 February we announced a further extension of that support until 30 June. As a result, bus service provision in England outside London remained at over 85% of pre-Covid levels in 2021-22.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, last week two separate zero-emission buses projects, in Milton Keynes and Stevenage, collapsed when the private sector partner, Arriva, pulled out, saying it was because passenger numbers had not recovered after the pandemic. What specific assessment have the Government done of the reasons for the 18% drop in passenger numbers since the pandemic? What more can be done to encourage the private sector to participate in these zero-emission pilots?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

My Lords, it is very disappointing that Arriva decided it was no longer willing to take part in those projects. Other bus operators are taking part in projects elsewhere in the country, and indeed Arriva itself is still participating in other separate zero-emission buses projects. Essentially, we very much hope that it will come back to the table once, and if, passenger numbers increase.

The reduction in passenger numbers is related to changes to concessionary travel and to people going to work and working from home. We believe that we have stabilised at this point, and now we look forward to bussing back better.

Avanti West Coast

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The current contract for TransPennine Express comes to an end on 28 May. It too is under a recovery plan, but TransPennine Express and Avanti have one thing in common that no other train operating company shares: they have suffered the immediate and simultaneous withdrawal of rest-day working by the trade unions. That has had an enormous impact on their services. It is worth bearing in mind that no other train operating company has had that.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, it is disappointing to hear the Minister again blaming the workforce for the problems of Avanti. Rail passengers in the north-west and Wales will have greeted the six-month extension to Avanti’s contract with incredulity. Over the past six months it has broken records for delays and cancellations yet, astonishingly, earlier this week the Times reported that the Government could offer Avanti a further 10-year extension at the end of this six-month extension. Can the Minister please now rule this out?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am absolutely not blaming the workforce here. I have never said that I was, but the noble Baroness will be unsurprised to hear that I am putting a little blame at the door of the trade unions. On the process for the next round of contracts for the west coast—because there will have to be a contract—the publication of the 10-year period was a statutory notice. Should it go to Avanti, the six-month contracts would be taken off it. Should it go to another operator, it might be for up to 10 years. The noble Baroness should not read too much into it; it could be any period up to 10 years.

Rail Services

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Tuesday 21st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am very happy to discuss what I know about it. Obviously, bonus payments are a matter for the companies themselves. They are not authorised by DfT or anything like that; it is a matter for the companies. There is often this thing about—and I think the noble Baroness referred to it—dividends, and I think it was £12 million. I cannot attest as to whether that £12 million is right or not, but I know that dividends that were agreed quite some time ago relate to a period from pre-Covid. Noble Lords may or may not be aware that the independent evaluation of the different rail contracts has been published only up to September 2021. There is still some more information to come; there is always a lag. Sometimes people say, “You are rewarding for failure.” No, that would be for a period that is not the current period; it would be for a period that was quite some time ago, because we, quite rightly given the complexities of the railway system, take the time for independent people to evaluate by the different criteria that are clearly set out, the different reasons why delays happen, why cancellations happen or why a company may or may not be performing as it should. Of course, we publish those things, but there is always a delay. Therefore, the money might not match up with the period that we are currently in. That is always important to remember.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

Can the Minister kindly clarify the bonus situation? If she cannot clarify it now, then I will be happy to receive her response in writing. Which period do those bonusses cover? I am sorry, I have given my speech to Hansard, but more than £4 million in bonuses was given to senior managers. I am sure that the Minister will understand that, in these very difficult times for rail passengers, for them to see senior executives in that company rewarded with very significant financial bonuses really goes against the grain. Therefore, I would be most grateful to know what period those bonuses cover.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I will put that in writing. I have some data here on executive bonuses. The total amount for the executive team for the financial year to 31 March 2021—a little while ago, which obviously covers a prior period—was £279,059. For the executive team, the Virgin Trains bit, it was more, at £2.5 million, but that of course related to a period a long time previously. The following year, total bonuses were £461,000.

I want to put on record that 20% of train drivers earn over £70,000 a year. I am not necessarily comparing the two, but this focus on bonuses for senior executives sometimes means that we do not look at what has happened to train drivers’ pay, which has gone up by more than the average over 10 years. As I say, 20% of them earn over £70,000 a year.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I dispute that it appears to the public that not much is happening. I believe that the travelling public will have noticed the significant improvement in the train services. On the point made by the noble Baroness, there are milestones in the recovery plan that need to be hit relating to driver training, recruitment and cancellations. All these things will be set out in great detail in the recovery plan, which will be scrutinised by the Rail Minister and his officials.

It should also be remembered that this is a private company and it will be managing its recovery plan from the operational side without the dead hand of government fiddling with it, because we should not—that is not our job. We are just there to provide the oversight and scrutiny to ensure that the recovery plan is going to plan.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

I respectfully ask the Minister, rather than waiting until October when we might be back here having another discussion about this issue, if we could have some kind of interim update before then. Presumably, the issue of TPE will come up in May, just before the contract expires, but it would be helpful to know at some point how the improvement plan for Avanti is going, rather than waiting until October.

I agree with my noble friend Lord Kennedy that, although we heard about improvements yesterday from the Minister, when you listen to passengers—whether that is noble Lords or people outside—or look on social media, their constant concern is that lives and businesses continue to be disrupted. I am interested to know if we could have an interim update, so that we can at least know that the improvement plan is going in the right direction and that the phasing of the employment, training and so on of the 100 drivers the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, referred to is going to plan, because presumably, that would greatly assist the situation. If we could have some kind of interim update before we are back here October, with the Government telling us whether they have decided that the contract can be awarded, that would be extremely helpful.

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

The noble Baroness is of course in an extremely privileged position in that she can table Oral Questions or ask me Parliamentary Written Questions whenever she likes. I would be happy to answer those. I am sure that over the period, we will be back in your Lordships’ House to discuss Avanti; indeed, I believe there is a topical Oral Question on Thursday. I am not expecting that I will have anything at all different to say by then, but perhaps we can have a rehash of where we are.

Every now and again I have a little look at Avanti on social media, and things are much quieter than they used to be. What I see much more of now is the disruption caused by the strikes.

Bus Industry Support

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Thursday 16th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I can absolutely say that the bus service operators grant will be reformed; reforms will be laid out later this year for consultation. On supporting services, we absolutely accept that we need to do what we can to provide a sustainable network which is fit for the future. That is why we have extended the funding and why we have the £2 bus fare cap. We need to evaluate that funding and the fare support to see what they have done to patronage.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, plans for a fantastic new zero-emission bus fleet in Stevenage and Milton Keynes, known as the ZEBRA project, came crashing down last week when private sector partner Arriva pulled out. Twice as many people use buses than trains, but buses need to be reliable to increase use, otherwise a vicious circle is created where passengers will not use them and operators will not run them. A new system giving communities a say on routes and fares is desperately needed. Will the Minister therefore produce the much-delayed bus strategy without any further delay and bring forward legislation, as my noble friend Lord Berkeley said, to devolve these powers across England?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

I am not entirely aware of the strategy that the noble Baroness is talking about. We have a bus strategy and we absolutely stand by that strategy. We think that the elements within it work, but what we are dealing with at the moment—as indeed are many other transport modes—is a significant reduction in patronage. We therefore need to think about how we get the best value for money with the support that we can give, while also encouraging local transport operators to play their part.

Northern Ireland and Great Britain: Regional Connectivity

Debate between Baroness Vere of Norbiton and Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

Monday 13th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

Any expansion at Heathrow is of course a matter for the airport itself; it is a private company and will be making the decision as to whether to expand. However, there are many London airports. I was at Luton only last week, where a brand new train service operates directly into the airport, which means that Luton will be 30 minutes away from central London. There is a lot of opportunity around London and, of course, we would like regional airlines to make the most of it.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place today, and after the HS2 Question on Friday, I expect the noble Lord, Lord Davies, is too. The collapse of Flybe in January was devastating news for staff as well as the wider supply chain and those employed in industries reliant on its transport links. What steps are the Government taking to encourage further investment in Northern Ireland? Are they working with other operators to unlock new opportunities? What further work has been done to reduce the inequalities that domestic airlines face when paying double air passenger duty?

[Baroness Vere of Norbiton (Con)]

As the noble Baroness will be aware, the Government announced a reduction in domestic air passenger duty. That comes into force from April 2023—next month—and will be a 50% cut in domestic air passenger duty. As I explained, we work with many of the regional airlines to consider regional connectivity. We will be looking at what we can do around slots but, as I said, services to Northern Ireland in particular are pretty much back to where they were in 2019.