Working Tax Credits

Debate between Baroness Lister of Burtersett and Lord Sassoon

Monday 14th May 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, what underlines this change and the need for it, as well as the unsustainability of the huge cost of working tax credits, is some of the unfairness and behavioural incentives in the system. This Government firmly believe that working people on low earnings should gain through money that they earn rather than from government subsidies. The switch from reducing reliance on benefits to increasing personal allowances is part of a significant change to getting more families to gain more from working than has been the case to date and for incentivising second earners into work. There was also a basic unfairness in the system as it was in that a single parent had to work 16 hours but a couple had to work only 16 hours between them. Therefore, underlying what the Government have announced are a fairness and an incentivisation and behavioural change that are very important.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, what advice would the Minister give to the woman interviewed on the “Today” programme last month? She is in a part-time job that she loves. Her husband is an unemployed builder who cannot find work. She is at her wits’ end because her employer will not give her extra hours and no alternative work is available to her. What is she and thousands of others in a similar situation supposed to do when they are struggling to manage without working tax credit and the only alternative realistic option is to give up work, which is the very opposite of what the Minister says that this Government believe in?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I did not hear that particular case and it is very difficult to comment on individual cases, particularly when one has not heard the details. I appreciate that many of the changes we are making across the tax and spending playing field are painful for very many people in this country. I do not minimise the effect on the 200,000 or so, including couples with children, who we are asking to find another eight hours on top of what they may do otherwise.

We should not play down the prospects for finding employment in this country. Nearly 1.1 million people found a job in the fourth quarter of 2011. Some 600,000 of those had been unemployed and had got into employment, and 459,000 were previously inactive. At the moment, the number of job vacancies is rising. At the last count, it was 464,000. I do not underestimate at all the effect on individual cases but there are jobs out there and more than 1 million people in one quarter found employment.

Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Order 2012

Debate between Baroness Lister of Burtersett and Lord Sassoon

Monday 27th February 2012 Grand Committee

[Lord Sassoon]

What I will concede is that we look at the effects of tax, tax credits and benefits together. Therefore, whatever makes up the bundle—some of it inherited, some not—comes in to that mix. Regardless of where individual measures came from, it is important to look at them in the round, which is what we have done and will continue to do.

In relation to the questions of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, I concede that I will probably fall into the trap of answering in a way that does not quite get to the nub of one or two of them, but I will come back to them. In headline terms, regarding the impact of the Autumn Statement on the number of children in relative income poverty, analysis shows an estimated increase of around 100,000 in 2012-13 on the measure used previously. However, this does not represent a forecast of the actual change in child poverty year on year because the measurement does not take into account, among other things, the value of public services that benefit children such as education and healthcare. These are very important in improving life chances, particularly among poorer households. Again, we have to be very careful here about whether we are using measures that properly capture the full effect of government policies.

In relation specifically to childcare, as I am sure the noble Baroness knows, the Government are investing a further £380 million a year by 2014-15 to extend the offer of 15 hours’ free education and care a week to disadvantaged two year-olds, and to cover an extra 130,000 children. Under the universal credit we are investing an extra £300 million so that 80,000 more families will get help with their childcare costs. However, I have not had a chance to see what has been published today. As I say, I will write on those points.

As I said in my opening remarks, the employment situation in this country is not easy. However, we had to take urgent action to tackle the deficit that we inherited, particularly the unsustainable welfare bill. I have mentioned the extraordinary increase in expenditure on tax credits in seven years from £18 billion to £30 billion a year. It is spending that is poorly targeted and totally unsustainable. The reforms to tax credits in these regulations and orders that we have been discussing are a fair and proportionate way to deal with this very difficult inheritance, as I have explained.

Essentially we have ensured that those most able to contribute to the deficit do so while those with the lowest incomes continue to be supported. It is because of that commitment that the highest decile of earners will make the greatest contribution towards reducing the deficit both in cash terms and as a percentage of their income, as I think the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, recognises. In that context, the orders and regulations before the Committee are an important step towards realising our ambition to restore the UK to economic stability, but in a way that drives prosperity and means that we tackle the deficit in a fair and responsible manner. I commend the orders and regulations to the Committee.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

Will the noble Lord write to me on the question I asked about the impact on couples of the change from 16 to 24 hours?

[Lord Sassoon]

I will write. I do not know what information I will be able to give but I assure the noble Baroness that I will cover the point.

Autumn Budget Forecast

Debate between Baroness Lister of Burtersett and Lord Sassoon

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, there is no one more grateful than me for not having to read out 45 minutes of Statement, however excellent it is, so I am glad of the change in the rules of the House.

The situation with the pension funds is that two groups of funds approached us to ask if we as the Government could facilitate their creation of a collective vehicle through which they might invest. We have signed a memorandum of understanding with the groups of pension funds, and we will work quickly to help them set up a vehicle that will then be in place for them. We will be reporting on progress certainly by the Budget next year. Of course, there is nothing to stop those pension funds from investing now, and indeed some of them do so through private sector vehicles.

Further, the UK pension funds are not the only bodies putting up their hands and recognising the attraction of this asset class. Noble Lords may have seen only yesterday an interesting article by the chairman of the Chinese sovereign wealth fund, the CIC, in the Financial Times, saying that it was looking to invest in this sector. The appetite for investment in UK infrastructure is very strong. The UK pension fund vehicle will be additive, and we welcome that.

The housing strategy was published on 21 November. The Government have a clear plan for supporting the housing market in order to achieve a more stable and sustainable position. Without going in detail through every element of what that strategy consists of, we are introducing the new build indemnity scheme to support builders and lenders in increasing the supply of new homes by increasing the supply of affordable mortgage finance. We are launching the new £400 million “Get Britain Building” investment fund. We are bringing more empty homes and buildings back into use. We are invigorating the right to buy, and for the first time within that, the receipts from additional right-to-buy sales will be used to support the funding of new affordable homes for rent on a one-for-one basis. We are supporting locally planned large-scale developments and we are consulting on various planning obligations. What was set out on 21 November is a substantial and important package for housing.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, can the Minister explain to the House the justification for reneging on the pledge to increase in real terms child tax credit, given that that increase was supposed to stop child poverty rising? Can he tell the House what the impact of that will be on the number of children living in poverty?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, the original £110 rise over inflation was announced at a time when the expectation as regards inflation was significantly lower than has turned out to be the case. The inflation increase that will be made is much higher than intended. Inflation in all the independent forecasts is expected to come down significantly next year, so by April 2012 when the uprating comes in, the inflation expectations are going to be different. That is the basis for the change now. On the distributional effects, those have been set out in considerable detail in a document that was put up on the Treasury’s website this afternoon.

Living Standards

Debate between Baroness Lister of Burtersett and Lord Sassoon

Monday 5th September 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, in the absence of my noble friend Lord Rooker, and at his request, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Commercial Secretary to the Treasury (Lord Sassoon)]

My Lords, the Resolution Foundation report finds that the share of national income going to the bottom half of workers in the form of wages has shrunk over the past 30 years. While this has been a long-term trend in most advanced economies, the Government are committed to the UK having a better educated and more flexible workforce within a more balanced economy and to ensuring fairness, with all individuals rewarded for entering and progressing in work.

[Baroness Lister of Burtersett]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer and for drawing attention to that key finding. However, the other key finding of the report is that the main reason for the falling proportion of national income going to those on low and middling wages is rising wage inequality, particularly at the top. Will the Minister please advise your Lordships' House what the Government plan to do to reduce wage inequality both before and after tax, particularly at the top end of the wage distribution?

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former member of the advisory board of the Resolution Foundation, whose work I very much admire. The report talks about wages before the effects of tax and benefits. Indeed, the noble Baroness is right that about two-thirds of the effect which it identifies results from growing wage inequality. However, it is interesting that the report’s tables point out that, at one extreme, the wage inequality results in those within financial services on the 90th percentile of earnings earning 6.2 times the amount earned by somebody on the 10th percentile, whereas in manufacturing the differential is only 3.3 times and has hardly changed over the past decade. Therefore, we need to see a much better balanced economy; balanced growth is what we want to see. In the previous decade, manufacturing’s contribution to the economy halved and that of financial services increased very significantly. The starting point has to be a more balanced growth in the economy.