Avian Flu: Turkeys in Norfolk

Baroness Hayman of Ullock Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Baroness Hayman of Ullock) (Lab)]

My Lords, following the detection of avian influenza in England, Defra has stood up its well-established response to control and eradicate disease. This has included humane culling of affected birds and establishing disease control zones to help prevent onward spread. The latest information is that there have been six cases in England—three in Norfolk, with two that affect turkeys. Defra will continue to monitor the situation and will consider a regional avian influenza protection zone if risk warrants this.

[Baroness Miller of Chilthorne Domer (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her reply—that sounds like good news for Christmas, because there are no more outbreaks in turkeys at present. As someone who once raised turkeys for my local WI market for Christmas, I can empathise with the free-range turkey producers. Can the Minister say how affected poultry farmers, who have the rest of the winter and of the 2025 avian flu season to survive, are compensated should they need to cull? Have the Government changed any aspects of the compensation scheme since they became the Government? Finally, given that insurance against avian flu is virtually impossible to get now, will the Government consider bringing in their own insurance scheme?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

First, the compensation scheme that we are looking at is the same as previously, in that poultry owners will be compensated for the value of the birds if they were healthy at the time of the cull. We have no plans to change that. Secondly, I am extremely aware of the complications around insurance. When we had the previous outbreak, I met a number of poultry owners who were having real problems with insurance. We are very concerned about this, and we will work with insurance companies to monitor the situation.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

I congratulate the Government on their swift response to this outbreak. Will the noble Baroness agree with me about the importance of monitoring potential outbreaks from our neighbouring countries in the European Union? Where are we on a potential sanitary and phytosanitary agreement with EU countries, which is so important in this regard?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Clearly, it is really important that we work closely with our European neighbours. The incidences of avian flu are currently not what we have seen in previous years, but we must not be complacent. Working with our European neighbours to monitor outbreaks is absolutely critical, because wild birds fly very long distances so this is an international problem. Regarding the SPS agreements, all I can say is that we are making progress and continuing discussions with the EU.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, my former Norfolk constituency contains a large number of poultry farms that invariably set the highest standards of animal health and biosecurity. The noble Baroness, Lady Miller of Chilthorne Domer, asked a question on insurance. Many farmers obviously find it difficult to get this insurance. The key thing is for the Government to work with the insurance industry to try to find a way forward, so can the Minister elaborate a bit more on her earlier reply on that point?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

As I said, insurance is a difficult issue. It becomes difficult in many areas—I am sure noble Lords are aware of the difficulties for businesses during flooding as well. Getting insurance in certain business cases is complex. All I can say is that we are extremely aware of the problems that occurred last time for poultry farmers in getting insurance. The outbreak this time is very low compared with previous years, but we are being proactive and doing our best to prevent further outbreaks. We are working with insurance companies to make sure that we have the best outcomes that we can, should this outbreak get worse.

[Lord Trees (CB)]

My Lords, with the outbreak of avian influenza, the challenge of bluetongue virus in ruminants and the ongoing battle to reduce bovine TB incidence—to say nothing of the biosecurity threats to, for example, our pig population from African swine fever—is the Minister confident that her department and APHA have the necessary resources to cope?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The noble Lord asks an important question. I met APHA yesterday to discuss exactly this issue because, when there are outbreaks of more than one disease, it has to look at how it will manage all the different aspects. It has assured me that it is confident that it has the resources to manage the response currently, and I am pleased that the Government have awarded funding to Weybridge to ensure that our future capability will be there.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)]

My Lords, I commend my noble friend the Minister on her wonderful work with the devolved Administrations, in meeting the various Ministers and organisations in the agricultural field. Whenever she next meets the Minister in Northern Ireland, will she ask him what joint work can be done to address disease in not only poultry flocks but animals such as TB reactors? That is a major problem for our farming industry.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

I actually met with the Minister in Northern Ireland only yesterday, and we have very regular meetings. Biosecurity is incredibly important, and it is important that we work right across all our devolved Administrations as well as with our European colleagues. I am more than happy to discuss this—I have discussed it when I have gone over to Northern Ireland. I have met farming communities over there and looked at the biosecurity measures at ports for things such as African swine fever. We are being very proactive about this.

[Lord Roborough (Con)]

Our Government amended the avian flu compensation scheme to allow compensation to be paid from the outset of planned culling to allow swifter payments. Can the Minister confirm whether such payments have been made in this case, and inform the House how many avian flu-related compensation claims have been accepted in the current year, compared to last year? Can she perhaps also reassure the House that there will be enough turkeys for Christmas?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

As I mentioned, this outbreak is very low compared to previous years, and we have brought in preventive measures to ensure that it does not become a major problem, as we had a few years ago. As I mentioned in responding to the previous question from the noble Baroness, Lady Miller, compensation will be paid in the same way as it was previously. I have absolutely no expectation that there will be any problem with turkeys being provided for Christmas, particularly as 85% of the turkeys that will be eaten at Christmas have already been slaughtered and are either fresh or frozen, as it is quite late in the year.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

This disease can be spread from the smallest of flocks. Is the Minister confident that we now have the registration of all people who are keeping birds? Without that, we are not able to enforce the necessary protections, should this particular event increase. We are bound to have such events in the future as well.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

Obviously, we are keen to encourage all small poultry keepers to register. The system is now working well—I have actually done it myself, because I am a small poultry keeper—so I absolutely encourage anyone to do it. It is very simple: it probably took me about a minute and a half. It is very straightforward so, if you have not registered, please do.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, although this outbreak is very small, the noble Baroness will remember that, in the previous serious outbreak in the run-up to Christmas, uninfected turkeys were slaughtered early and kept in large chiller facilities until needed for Christmas. Should this outbreak get more serious, are there plans to repeat that process?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

As I said, 85% of turkeys that are expected for the Christmas dinner table have already been slaughtered and are available either fresh or frozen, so I do not see that that will be an issue for this year.

[Lord Vaux of Harrowden (CB)]

I refer to my interests in the register. My noble friend Lord Trees mentioned the bluetongue virus outbreak, which has been somewhat underreported. The restricted zone for that virus outbreak now runs to 26 counties in England, so it is spreading quite quickly. What assessment have the Government made of the impact on farmers who cannot move their animals easily within that restricted zone? What are the Government doing to help them?

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

We are very aware of the impacts on farmers and the issues around restricted zones. With the weather changing and us now moving into winter, and with this being a midge-transported disease, cases are coming down. We are now looking at the issue of midges that can overwinter and therefore spread the disease next year, without it having to be blown over from the continent. Whether that means we want to keep the restricted zones in place is something we are currently looking at and considering carefully.