Arrangement of Business

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Kennedy of Southwark (Lab Co-op)]

I endorse the comments of the Leader of the House about Question Time. I have always said that the clue is in the title: it is Question Time.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I suggest that the Whips could be a bit more assertive when people go over time, because often they sit there while the time goes on and the rest of the House is getting agitated, but they do not intervene. Please can they intervene rather more?

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 7th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

I am happy to take the historical dispute offline, as they say, and discuss it with the noble Lord afterwards.

Our concept of freedom of speech in traditional English law is broader. It concerns not merely things that are said in the press but what you might say at Speakers’ Corner, among your friends or in colleges and universities. Amendment 10 seeks to root the notion of the legal framework in which we are considering freedom of speech in that broader English common-law tradition. I see a relatively clear contrast between the two, which is why I had no hesitation in supporting Amendment 10. I am happy to acknowledge the discussions I had with the noble and learned Lord about it before he tabled it.

It seems that the Government are not taking either of those clear choices. They have come up with a third option, which frankly I regard as a little bit of a muddle. In the first place, it seeks to root the legal framework within which we are to understand freedom of speech in Article 10, but it refers specifically to Article 10(1).

As the noble and learned Lord said, Article 10(1) is perhaps the positive part of Article 10. It is the part that goes out and says, “Freedom of expression is very important and has to be protected”. It is paragraph 2 of Article 10 that goes on:

“The exercise of these freedoms”


and so forth

“may be subject to such formalities, conditions, restrictions or penalties”

for various purposes, which it then lists. I will not detain the House by reading them out, but it is the restrictive part.

There is no mention of the second part of Article 10 in the Government’s amendment. Ministers with whom I have had the benefit of discussions about this, for which I am grateful, have said to me that it is clear they intend this to be a freedom which is consistent with what I have described as the English common-law tradition of freedom of speech. That brings me to the question: if that is what they mean but they still wish to root it in Article 10, what has happened to its paragraph 2? Does the Government’s amendment mean that paragraph 2 is disapplied in relation to the understanding of freedom of speech as it is to sit in the Bill, following their amendment? As drafted, the amendment is pregnant with paragraph 2, but we do not know whether the birth is going to take place. What is the role of that part of Article 10 in this?

My own view is that the Government have a lot of explaining to do on this late amendment to try to make clear to your Lordships what is being achieved. If this is the right means of achieving it and their intention is to have a broad understanding of freedom of speech, why are they rooting it in Article 10 in the first place and what has happened to the second part of that? Would it not be much better if my noble friends on the Front Bench simply opted for one of two amendments tabled by the noble and learned Lord, ideally Amendment 10?

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, from these Benches we very much welcome the government amendments in this group. We consider that “opinions” is a much safer term than “beliefs or views”. We also welcome Amendment 7, which aligns freedom of speech more closely to other conventions. I am afraid that I do not have the legal knowledge to discuss the views of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, on whether paragraph 2 should be there.

However, we support the other amendments in the names of the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope. We are also very pleased that the Minister has signed Amendment 6, which should help to protect freedom of speech and well-being on our campuses. We realise it is unlikely that the other amendments in this group will go any further; meanwhile, we thank the Ministers very much for listening.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for introducing this group. When we were discussing these points in Committee, what prompted me to support him was how we should try to future-proof this legislation, particularly where there was speculation about human rights definitions and things that might lead to other changes. I therefore also welcome the Government’s own amendments. They are extremely helpful, and we welcome them in relation to this issue. I must admit that I am quite happy to support a third way. It has been part of my political tradition to do so, so I will support that.

I come to Amendment 6 in my name. We had an extremely positive exchange about how we protect these freedoms and stop a nasty practice of non-disclosure agreements inhibiting free speech. I am extremely pleased that the Government have signed the amendment and agreed to support it. I also appreciate all the discussions I have had with the Minister, whom I thank very much.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Triesman (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to make a brief point, because I know that everybody wants to make progress, but free speech is also important. I could well understand a code of practice of this kind, and I too am very grateful to the Minister for discussions on this. A code of practice can make a difference to the way in which societies that are part of a student union or student unions understand what their responsibilities are. I am not sure that they always understand what the criminal law does or does not say, and it is certainly the case that some of the institutions within universities that used to play significant role, including the union of which I had the privilege of being the general secretary, do not understand it any more and do not apply it any more in an appropriate way, and that itself is a significant problem. I am horrified by that.

However, I would like to know from the Minister that the codes of practice will also tell individuals what they are or are not expected to do. By and large, we construct our law—there are lawyers here who will tell me if I am wrong—so that individuals know what their responsibilities are and do not simply say that they are hiding behind some kind of collective. It is their responsibility. Academic freedom is based around individuals understanding their duties and responsibilities just as much as any of the groups. If we want this to work, it is vital that we do not lose that distinction.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, these amendments all refer to student unions. We have been concerned about the rather heavy-handed approach to student unions in the Bill. Amendment 16, to which my noble friend Lord Wallace has added his name, seeks to ensure that student unions are fully aware of the regulations with which they must comply. We are particularly concerned in connection with further education student unions, which are likely to be very small and have very few funds available. Presumably they are included in the Bill. The regulations are complex and students will obviously be transitory in post, so simplicity of guidance is essential if they are not to find themselves caught up in unwittingly breaching the rules, as the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, has just set out. This amendment would be a very straightforward way of helping students, and it would be very easy to adopt.

Like others, we support the intention of Amendments 11, 15 and 25 but we remain unsure about how they could be implemented. As the noble Lord, Lord Macdonald, said, some of these actions may well be criminal behaviour, in which case they do not need to be part of the Bill because they should be something else. I liked the tale told by the noble Lord, Lord Grabiner. There are other ways of dealing with hecklers, and ridicule is often one of the very best. We do not see that these amendments should be in the Bill, but some code of practice or regulation would probably be worth it. However, Amendment 16 is well worth government consideration.

[Baroness Thornton (Lab)]

My Lords, we have had a thorough exploration of the issues that would face student unions as a result of the passage of the Bill. Amendment 16 in the names of my noble friends Lord Collins and Lord Blunkett and me, with the support of the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, is not intended to be patronising. It seeks to ask the Government whether they will ensure that the guidance to student unions gives young people all the help and support it can to carry out the duties and responsibilities that the Bill will impose on them. Some of them will be 17, 18 or 19 years old, and this will be something they are absolutely unfamiliar with. That is really all that one needs to say about Amendment 16.

I agree that Amendments 11, 15 and 25 are probably not appropriate for the Bill. As somebody who has been a moderately successful heckler myself, I think they certainly should not be in the Bill.

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

47: Clause 3, leave out Clause 3 and insert the following new Clause—
“Duties of students’ unions
(1) Section 22 of the Education Act 1994 is amended as follows.(2) In subsection (1), at end insert “and secures freedom of speech within the law for members of the students’ union, students of the provider, staff of the students’ union, staff and members of the provider and of its constituent institutions, and visiting speakers.”(3) In subsection (2), at end insert—“(o) the use of any premises occupied by the students’ union is not denied to any individual or body on grounds in relation to an individual or society or other body’s ideas, beliefs or views;(p) the terms on which such premises are provided are not to any extent based on such grounds;(q) affiliation to the students’ union is not denied to any student society on such grounds; (r) use by any individual or body of premises occupied by the students’ union is not on terms that require the individual or body to bear some or all of the costs of security relating to their use of the premises.”(4) After subsection (3) insert—“(3A) The code of practice shall set out—(a) the students’ union’s values relating to freedom of speech and an explanation of how those values uphold freedom of speech;(b) the procedures to be followed by its staff and its members who are students of the registered higher education provider in connection with the organisation of—(i) meetings which are to be held on the premises occupied by the students’ union and which fall within any class of meeting specified in the code, and(ii) other activities which are to take place on those premises and which fall within any class of activity so specified;(c) the conduct required of such persons in connection with any such meeting or activity; and(d) the criteria to be used by the students’ union in making decisions about the union’s support and funding for events and activities to which the duties in this section are relevant, and whether to allow the use of premises and on what terms.””Member’s explanatory statement
This amendment suggests an alternative method for placing duties on students' unions by amending the Education Act 1994, and along with the proposed removal of clause 7 seeks to probe whether the OfS should directly regulate SUs or whether they should be regulated via the relevant provider.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I will also speak to the Clause 7 stand part notice in my name and that of my noble friend Lord Wallace, who is absent. I note with interest that the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, referred earlier to the HEPI report on students, which made interesting but fairly depressing reading—particularly with regard to students these days being very reluctant to discuss anything with which they disagree.

These amendments are at the requests of students and student unions, which are very concerned that provisions in this Bill could involve them in costly, time-consuming administration and litigation. Our revised Clause 3 aims to provide clarity on the responsibilities for freedom of speech in a more student-friendly manner. We were also alerted to the problems of geography. Many higher education providers have operations overseas. Does free speech “within the law” mean the law at home or away? There are many Welsh and Scottish higher education providers that have campuses in England as well. Will these duties apply to all of them?

We note that student unions are not public authorities and so are not subject to regulation in the same way. Many of them may be tiny theatre providers; they may be further education providers with a handful of higher education students. Their governing bodies may be a small group of 17 year-old students. Are the provisions in Clause 3 really appropriate for such unions?

If Clause 3 is bad, Clause 7 is even worse. We read in that clause that an individual would be able to refer their complaint to the Office for Students complaints scheme at the same time as pursuing it through a provider or the student union’s internal procedures, which would surely be the appropriate way. It could also be addressed by the Office of the Independent Adjudicator for Higher Education, or a court or tribunal. How confusing and cumbersome this is. Surely such complaints should not be escalated; rather, they should be dealt with at the lowest possible level. Currently, the adjudicator considers students’ complaints only once the local process has been completed. For the Office for Students to rush in with a monetary penalty would surely be untimely and disproportionate. We really feel that this is not a reasonable use of the Office for Students’ powers.

At a later date, we shall come on to discuss the director of freedom of speech and academic freedom. It is not at all clear how that post will fit in with all these other complaints processes.

As I say, these amendments have been tabled at the request of students and student unions. On that basis, I beg to move.

[Lord Triesman (Lab)]

My Lords, this is probably the only appropriate place to raise this point. There was a debate earlier in which my friend, the noble Lord, Lord Smith of Finsbury—he may be on the Cross Benches but he is steadfastly a friend—and the noble Baronesses, Lady Fox and Lady Smith of Newnham, took part, about what the core functions of a university are and what its DNA is. I do not resile from what I said about the role of a university in the development of knowledge and the challenge to knowledge, but I would not for a moment suggest that that is the only function.

I come to the other thing that I think universities are fundamentally there for, because the students and student unions are so central to it. Universities are also the place where we see the transmission of knowledge between generations. They are the place in which we try to instil in students the methods best suited to elaborate knowledge and to challenge all spheres of knowledge, and to do so in a way that reflects the fact that it is a community. Those are also fundamental obligations of a university, and it would be very foolish if we were to neglect them.

The strength of the very word “collegiality” is that it means we believe that, in a collegial environment, people should not suppress the views of others, silence others or interfere with their individual rights. Apart from overcoming those negatives, it also cements together a community that has, if I may put it this way, a mutual obligation to proceed with respect. In my view, that is quite central to the DNA of a university.

I make these points because those frequently relatively young people—although it is a much more diverse age group now—are central to what we think about when we think about what universities do and how they should do it. Indeed, we have embodied in other legislation measures to deal with the quality of teaching to ensure that this part of what universities do is at the best standard that can be achieved, and we punish them by not letting them have gold stars or whatever if they fail to do it. Student unions are a part of that education provision, part of that community, and what we try to impose on them becomes extremely significant.

--- Later in debate ---

The Bill places clear, direct duties on student unions and gives the OfS a mechanism to regulate and enforce them. I hope noble Lords will agree that the Bill as currently drafted represents the best way of regulating student unions as regards freedom of speech.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

I thank the Minister very much for his reply and all those who have spoken in this short debate. There are more issues that we might need to bring back on Report, but meanwhile I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

Amendment 47 withdrawn.

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 31st October 2022 Grand Committee

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

Amendment 15.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

Sorry, Amendment 15. This just demonstrates that the profession I need to go to is my optician, which kindly cancelled my appointment.

Amendment 15 is very much to think about to what extent this is about particular academic standards. I suggest that it is in effect probing, although my noble friend does not say that.

The next amendment, which I think we all take as being Amendment 16, is to omit

“and controversial or unpopular opinions”.

This is not necessarily to say that these things should not be there, but in the debate on an earlier group of amendments the Minister pointed out that beliefs and views are not the same and that beliefs are protected under the Equality Act. But then there is the question of where we put unpopular opinions. They are not beliefs. Are they views? Should they be in there? My noble friend’s question here is about whether we should expect academics to put forward views based on evidence. Here the noble Baroness, Lady Fox, has a point, because while we would expect to look for evidence, at some point in the intellectual journey you might be looking for evidence and not yet have found it—but presumably we would want the views that academics espouse to be at least based on something that goes beyond the whole QAnon idea of fake news and invented facts. Do the Government have a view on that?

In Amendment 20, my noble friend is again concerned about practicality. To what extent should the Government expect to be involved, or expect the law to be involved, in the way higher education institutions are engaging in promotion and looking at the way people are appointed within higher education institutions? We are not necessarily suggesting in any way that people’s jobs should be put at stake, or indeed that they should not be promoted, but this is a probing amendment to understand how far this legislation is intended to go.

Finally, I suspect the last word from me today is on Amendment 23, also in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle. Again, to what extent can the Government and the law be involved? What is the Government’s intention here? How far do they intend to interfere further in higher education institutions?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I shall speak briefly in support of the noble Baronesses, Lady Fox of Buckley and Lady Falkner of Margravine, and my noble friend Lord Johnson of Marylebone in opposing Amendment 15. The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, referred to the 50th anniversary of a seminal book. I think it would be odd if we got through a debate on universities without referring to the fact that it is roughly 170 years since Cardinal Newman published his lectures, known as The Idea of a University, probably the first attempt in the 19th century to define what a university looked like and what it was for. I have a familiarity with every single line of that book because, when I was a schoolboy, I proofread the standard current Oxford authoritative edition for its editor, Father Ian Ker. Indeed, a very minute examination of the acknowledgements would reveal that to be the case.

We are discussing this in a very modern way, but there are two things we can take away from Newman that really are very important and relevant to this amendment. The first is that the word “university” implies universal; that is, there are no bounds on the fields of inquiry to which a university can go. The second is that, for Newman, this is a collective endeavour. We are discussing this as if the advancement of knowledge was to be followed only by individuals with specific expertise in certain areas, and as if the sharing and communication of knowledge among them—be it through papers, through social engagement or simply through having dinner together and discussing things—was not a crucial part of that endeavour. I simply urge those two points at this stage. It seems to me that Amendment 15 is wholly misconceived as to how knowledge is advanced and what a university actually is and should be.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, Amendments 15 and 16 were probing amendments, so I do not think my noble friend Lord Wallace will be totally mortified to discover that the entire Committee is not in favour of them.

[The Earl of Leicester (Con)]

First, I apologise for not attending Second Reading; I could not be here. I shall speak very briefly against Amendment 16 because I think it is very dangerous to leave out “controversial or unpopular opinions”. Newton had a particularly controversial opinion, Einstein too, and Galileo’s opinion on Copernican heliocentrism, which for you and I is the earth rotating daily and revolving around the sun, was met with opposition by the Catholic Church; he was tried under the Roman Inquisition in 1615 and spent the rest of his life in house arrest. To suggest that we remove the words “controversial or unpopular opinions” is, I think, very dangerous.

Higher Education (Freedom of Speech) Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

2nd reading
Tuesday 28th June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, who was a very open-minded higher education Minister. This has been a fascinating debate, but quite disconcerting. We have just been dealing with the Schools Bill, a Bill so bad that three Conservative Education Ministers have called for it to be terminated, and now we face another Bill which appears unnecessary, irrelevant and possibly harmful too. When Gavin Williamson, the then Education Secretary, introduced it in the Commons, he was constantly interrupted with questions, complaints and observations from all sides about why the Government were wasting time on such a Bill. We do not interrupt in our House, we listen courteously, and I thank the noble Earl the Minister for carrying out the hapless task of trying to convince us that this Bill is worth our time and trouble.

Higher education institutions are more than aware of the importance of freedom of speech. It is important that young people should be exposed to views contrary to their own, in a caring and learning environment where views should be respected but most certainly challenged where they are prejudiced, ignorant or harmful. No one has a right not to be outraged or offended, although increasingly some young people feel that they should not be exposed to views contrary to their own. I remember a number of revolting students at Oxford in the 1960s and some very robust debate, but I do not think that any of us suffered from it.

The recent HEPI survey, which my noble friend Lord Wallace referenced, is disturbing in the number of young people who do not seem to want to operate outside their comfort zone. But why is this Bill needed? An assessment by the Office for Students found that just 53 out of 59,574 events with external speakers were refused permission in 2017-18. Perhaps that was an unusually slow year for cancel culture and there is a real problem. However, the Bill comes before we have had a proper national public debate about where we think the acceptable boundary sits between speech that is offensive or hurtful but that ought to be permitted under the Bill, and speech that is harmful, divisive and, although perhaps not unlawful, has no place on campus. We have not had that debate, so the Government are rushing into legislation before we have much tangible evidence of the boundaries of acceptability.

Freedom of speech and the free exchange of ideas in pursuit of truth and knowledge are central to our universities’ whole purpose, but where is the evidence that there is a problem? This Bill is unnecessary and unclear. There is a real risk that our universities will be subject to vexatious and frivolous claims, which will cause distress and waste time and may make universities more risk-averse and more cautious about whom they invite to speak. So students will not be exposed to contrary views or be able to frame arguments and responses in defence of their own views.

Of course, we have a right to free speech. We need to be able to challenge people whose views are different from ours. Informed public debate is a vital element of a democratic society. It is vital to academic freedom, however difficult and contentious it might be, but, as has already been mentioned, we already have laws to protect free speech in the Education (No. 2) Act 1986. We really do not need any new laws, particularly ones as contentious as this. We have an Office of the Independent Adjudicator for Higher Education—and our thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, for that. Why can it not deal with any problems in this area? The new director seems to have alarming powers, apparently without the need for any legal background.

I turn to no-platforming. As we have already heard, in 2019-20, of almost 10,000 events involving an external speaker, just six were cancelled—that is 0.06%. It is not a major problem and the heavy-handed proposals in this legislation are certainly not justified or needed. It has been said that this is an authoritarian sledgehammer to crack a nut. It might well give universities a reason to stop holding events that would broaden students’ minds.

We oppose the Bill. It is not based on evidence and is not proportionate. Worst of all, it actively undermines the very principle of free speech that it claims to support. Free speech is about the right of every individual to speak truth to power, but the Bill does the opposite. It gives those in power or with power the ability to determine who is free to say what. Far from protecting our freedoms, it is yet another example of the Government’s concerted efforts to take our freedoms away. Given that universities are already required to protect freedom of speech and that research suggests that no-platforming is incredibly rare, the Government should drop this Bill entirely.

As others have said, the likely consequence of all this is that universities and student unions will err on the side of caution and steer away from anything risky—in other words, not more free speech but less—and for those with really outlandish views, there will be a legal stick with which to beat institutions. We have already heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Royall, the great quotation of the principle:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.”


We have wasted enough time on the Schools Bill. Please do not make us waste yet more time on this one.

Health and Care Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Friday 4th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, this is a very broad group. As part of the Government’s obesity strategy, Clause 144 and Schedule 17 introduce advertising restrictions on less healthy food and drink, a 9 pm watershed for TV and on-demand services and the prohibition of paid-for advertising online. I declare my interest as chair of the Commission on Alcohol Harm. I will speak only to my amendment, which addresses the problem that currently, the definition of “less healthy food and drink” does not include alcohol beverages as it was drawn from the 2001 Nutrient Profiling Technical Guidance.

The amendment requires the Government to consult on including alcohol in the proposed advertising restrictions, because alcohol is the leading cause of death and ill-health among 15 to 49-year-olds in England. Under the Bill, adverts for sugary soft drinks will be restricted but adverts for alcoholic drinks will not, even though they can be very obesogenic. To quote from the Government’s own obesity strategy, they recognise that

“alcohol is highly calorific … It has been estimated that for those that drink alcohol it accounts for nearly 10% of the calories they consume … each year around 3.4 million adults consume an additional day’s worth of calories each week from alcohol, that is nearly an additional 2 months of food each year.”

The calorie load of 100 millilitres of 40% spirit is 244 calories, compared to just 42 calories in 100 millilitres of coke. A pint of beer has the same calories as a Mars bar and a glass of wine equates to three Jaffa cakes.

Some sweet alcohol products contain more than 100% of the daily recommended sugar intake in a single serving. There is significant evidence that children exposed to alcohol marketing drink more and drink earlier than they otherwise would, and early-age drinking is linked to higher risk drinking and even alcohol dependence in adolescence and early adulthood.

Existing advertising codes are failing. In the past month more than 80% of 11 to 14 year-olds have seen alcohol advertising. Almost 60% of 11 to 17 year-olds had seen alcohol adverts on television and more than 40% saw alcohol adverts on social media platforms. One-fifth had interacted with alcohol marketing online in the past month, despite being underage and therefore not allowed to buy alcohol. These adverts achieve their aim. Children as young as 11 can identify, reference and describe brands and logos of various alcohol companies—which leads them to start drinking more and earlier—making these images most attractive. Ten to 15 year-olds are exposed to more TV alcohol marketing than adults.

Alcohol itself is linked to more than 200 diseases and conditions, including seven cancers, is obesogenic and should be classified as a less healthy product. It should be included in the advertising restriction codes proposed, because the current self-regulatory codes are clearly failing. Children would accept this. The Children’s Parliament investigators and the Young Scot health panel have recommended a TV watershed for alcohol advertising. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble Lord, Lord Howarth of Newport, should be taking part remotely. If the noble Lord is there, would he like to speak? We will continue with the debate and when we can get hold of him, we will bring him in.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interests—there are a lot of them in terms of food, but this is for a specific reason: I am a trustee of the Food Foundation, chair of Feeding Britain, a patron of Sustain, an adviser on the national food strategy and chair of VegPower. I also work with Cancer Research and the Obesity Health Alliance.

We welcome the Health and Care Bill, which contains provisions to limit adverts of unhealthy food and drink on TV and online to protect children’s health. I also support the amendment tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, on alcohol, which is not covered in my amendment. She is completely right about the fact that such advertising encourages people to drink—something I know a lot about, to my cost—and put on weight.

These provisions are found in Schedule 17 of the Bill. All the different charities and NGOs I have worked with have argued for this for many years and we are incredibly pleased that the Government have made these provisions part of the Bill. They have been supported by all of us, and the Obesity Health Alliance and all cancer charities. So, I am shocked—we all are—and puzzled that during this Committee, quite a lot of amendments have been tabled in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Moylan and Lord Vaizey of Didcot, that would directly weaken or delay these proposals. As far as I know, and I have worked in the food business for a long time, I have not seen their names associated with campaigns to do with children’s health—in particular, around obesity.

I want quickly to explain what these amendments would do. Amendments 245, 255, 256, 257 and 317 would delay implementation of the various restrictions—for example, blocking the 9 pm TV watershed until a full calendar year after Ofcom publishes the technical guidance. This would delay the planned implementation by at least six months. We all appreciate that the food and advertising industries will need time to review the technical guidance, but this is just too long.

Amendments 245A and 250ZA would limit the restrictions, so that they apply only at weekends, but kids do not watch TV only at weekends. Amendments 247, 250A and 253A would enshrine exemptions for brand adverts if specific products are not displayed; for example, McDonald’s could advertise lettuce. The Government have already stated that brand advertising will be exempt from some of these restrictions, so why do we have to go further?

Amendments 248 and 251 would exempt certain unhealthy products from the restrictions, including

“chocolate confectionery in portion sizes smaller than 200 kcal”.

The amendments conflict entirely with the purposes of the policy, which is to limit children’s exposure to the advertising of products that are high in fat, sugar and salt. Quite frankly, some products of under 200 calories can contain more than half of a child’s recommended daily sugar limit.

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[Lord Faulkner of Worcester (Lab)]

My Lords, I move Amendment 270, and add my support to Amendments 271 to 279 in this group. I have added my name to each of these, and they will be spoken to by noble Lords in all parties in the Chamber and by the noble Baroness, Lady Masham. I pay particular tribute to them for all being present at this late hour on a Friday—but this is an important issue.

We have signed these amendments because we see them as important steps on the journey towards a smoke-free Britain by 2030, which is the aspiration the Government have identified. They are in line with the approach that has been repeatedly taken in your Lordships’ House in recent years, to reduce harm caused by tobacco smoking and which has been consistently supported by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, when he was answering for the department of health in earlier debates. His support for tobacco control measures has always been appreciated.

As recently as 14 July, your Lordships approved the Motion to Regret that I tabled, regretting that the draft pavement licences regulations were not revised to take into account the evidence of benefits of 100% smoke-free pavement licences. That was agreed by a majority of 30 in a Division.

The amendments in this group are based on the recommendations in the 2021 report of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Smoking and Health; I declare an interest as an officer of it. The Public Health Minister in the other place has committed carefully to review these recommendations as she develops the forthcoming tobacco control plan. I suspect that we may hear a little more about that from the noble Earl.

The rationale for Amendment 270 is clear. Raising the age of sale would have a larger impact in reducing smoking rates among young adults than any other single intervention. Experimentation has been found to be rare after the age of 21, so the more we do to prevent exposure and access to tobacco before this age, the more young people we can stop from being locked into a deadly addiction from which they may never escape. Two-thirds of those who try smoking go on to become regular smokers and only a third succeed in quitting during their lifetime, with the remainder at serious risk of smoking-related disease, disability and premature death.

When the age of sale was raised from 16 to 18 in 2007, smoking rates among 16 and 17 year-olds declined by 30%. When the age was raised to 21 in the United States, there was a similar reduction there, which in the UK would equate to 100,000 fewer smokers aged 18 to 20, simply by making it harder for young adults to buy tobacco.

Raising the age of sale would also help to reduce inequalities. Compared with non-smokers aged 18 to 20, smokers in this age group are more likely to be from lower socioeconomic backgrounds. This means that the effect of increasing the age of sale would be particularly beneficial in poorer and more disadvantaged communities. The Government’s levelling-up White Paper, published earlier this week, rightly states on page 203:

“Tobacco is still one of the single largest causes of preventable mortality, and smoking rates remain high in some areas of the UK. In 2019, the UK Government set the ambition for England to be Smokefree by 2030. A new Tobacco Control Plan for England is due to be published in 2022, setting out how the UK Government will deliver on this commitment, with a focus on reducing smoking rates in the most disadvantaged areas and groups.”


Elsewhere, the White Paper states:

“These and other changes will contribute to narrowing the gap in Healthy Life Expectancy … between local areas where it is highest and lowest by 2030, and increasing Healthy Life Expectancy by five years by 2035”.


I hope that, with those very desirable aspirations, the Government may be able to accept these amendments or propose similar ones of their own on Report. These amendments are designed to help them to achieve what they want to do.

Raising the age of sale is simple and inexpensive to implement and enforce, as retailers are already required to check the age of young people trying to purchase tobacco, so it is not an additional regulatory burden. Raising the age to 21 would do more than any other measure to help achieve the Government’s ambition of a “smokefree generation” and has already proved effective in the US.

I shall conclude with a brief word on Amendment 271. This requires the Government to prohibit the free distribution of nicotine products to under-18s and to regulate the marketing of any novel nicotine products, not just e-cigarettes. Unsurprisingly, tobacco companies have shown themselves more than willing to exploit this loophole. Free vapes have reportedly been handed out without age checks in cities all around the country. After all, it is not illegal to do so, although it clearly contravenes the spirit of the existing regulations, which set the age of sale at 18. I hope the Minister will agree that the current situation is unacceptable and will take action now to prevent e-cigarettes and other nicotine products being promoted to children. Including all nicotine products, not just e-cigarettes, will ensure that any new nicotine products introduced into the UK in future will be properly regulated from the outset.

I commend all the amendments in this group to the Committee, and remind the Minister that all that Amendment 270 requires at this stage is a consultation and a report back to Parliament. Surely that is not too much to ask for a measure which has majority support among small tobacco retailers as well as the adult population, makes a major contribution to public health and reduces health inequalities. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Masham of Ilton, is taking part remotely and I invite her to speak.

[Baroness Masham of Ilton (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I support all these amendments but will speak to Amendments 276 and 277, to which my name is attached, requiring health warnings on cigarettes and inserts in cigarette packs containing quitting advice.

My father used to smoke, as very many people did in the war. At the age of 52, he died of coronary thrombosis; I always felt that smoking caused his death. In addition, one of my best friends who smoked died early. At this very time, my housekeeper is in St James’s University Hospital in Leeds receiving treatment for cancer. The other day, she scolded herself for having smoked. Smoking causes serious disability as well as premature death; far too many people have died because of smoking.

I strongly support the Government’s Smokefree 2030 ambition. The measures in the amendments will help put us on track; they are well-evidenced, cheap to implement and easy to enforce. Health warnings on cigarette packs have progressively increased in size over time and, most recently, their impact has been enhanced by the removal of colourful banding. Warnings on cigarettes is the logical next step, and it will have particular impact in preventing children and young people starting to smoke. Hundreds of children start smoking every day in the UK. Children are much more likely to have access to individual cigarettes than full packs, meaning that warnings on cigarettes are likely to be particularly effective in preventing youth uptake. This measure has strong public support. Adding health warnings to cigarettes and cigarette papers is a simple measure with minimal cost which would help deliver the Government’s Smokefree 2030 ambition.

Amendment 277 would give the Government powers to require that health information messages be inserted in cigarette packs. This is not a novel idea; it has been a legal requirement in Canada since 2000. They are proven to work, and there is already good evidence from Canada on which messages are most effective. If the Government could give an assurance today regarding the increased use of health warning inserts—they already have the power to do this—these amendments might not be necessary and we could save time on Report. If not, Amendments 276 and 277, which are by no means the only measures needed to address this terrible addiction, would be a small and significant step in the right direction. I commend them to the Committee.

Early Years Interventions

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen (Con)]

Of course it is very important that the independent nursery schools carry on. We are investing additional funding for the early years entitlement worth £160 million in 2022-23. This is for local authorities to increase the hourly rates paid to childcare providers for the Government’s free childcare entitlement offers and reflects cost pressures as well as anticipated changes in the number of eligible children. The Government have confirmed the continuation of the maintained nursery schools supplementary funding throughout the SR period, providing the sector with long-term certainty. For 2022-23, we will increase the MNS supplementary hourly funding rate by 3.5%.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, it is widely accepted that the first few years of a child’s life can influence their development, education, character and aspiration. Disadvantaged and disabled children need much more help than most, so will the Government commit to additional funding, either through the early years pupil premium or a disadvantage supplement for those eligible for the two-year offer?

G20 and COP 26 World Leaders Summit

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd November 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

I am afraid I do not have those figures; I am not sure it has got that far yet. As I said, the figure I have got is that the latest significant commitment was that of the Japanese of $10 billion.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, Back-Bench questions have now been completed.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

3rd reading & Report stage
Monday 19th April 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP) [V]]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the reflections of the noble Viscount, Lord Trenchard, on how oversight of this Bill has been truncated, despite all the hard work put in, and the fact that we still do not have a clear picture of what the Government propose, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, said in introducing Amendment 37F.

As this is the last amendment, and we have already covered this ground extensively, I will be brief. I wanted to speak on this group to offer my support for the amendment in the names of the noble Baronesses, Lady Kramer and Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, both of whom have done extraordinary, sterling work on this Bill.

We have a real problem of oversight, which has been seen and expressed on many sides of your Lordships’ House. Looking at the real-world situation, the circumstances now and the headlines coming out, we have huge problems with our financial sector, and any independent outside observer would see that clearly. Although we know that this amendment will not be put to a vote, it would ensure that there is a chance to properly question and scrutinise the work of the regulators, which has to be at the heart of the system, and of trying to fix our broken system.

It has been a long debate, if often cut up into different stages and occurring at odd intervals, and we have a long way to go. The Government tell us we are to expect many more financial Bills coming down the track. We will have to keep coming back to these issues again and again, until we finally see progress.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles of Berkhamsted, has withdrawn, so I now call the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, we had a fruitful debate on the issue of parliamentary scrutiny and the regulator’s rule-making powers last Wednesday. Since this amendment was tabled, I have viewed it as an opportunity to tie up any loose ends, rather than being likely to result in a Division.

It is fair to say that nobody is particularly happy with the current arrangements, particularly given the loss of European Parliament scrutiny of new prudential rules, and the glut that will come once the Bill becomes an Act. However, there is little sense in repeating the arguments made in previous debates. I recognise that the Minister was able to make some important additional commitments in his response to last week’s group of amendments. Since this amendment was tabled, we have seen correspondence from the Economic Secretary to the heads of the FCA and PRA, asserting that Parliament, as we have all said in recent months, has and must enjoy a special role in overseeing the regulators’ output. The letter provided what my noble friend Lord Eatwell has long referred to as the final component of a three-legged stool.

Having reached agreement that Parliament should be treated as a significant stakeholder, the key is to now put in place a mechanism for meaningful scrutiny to take place. Our Amendments 45 and 48 envisage the establishment of a dedicated committee of each House, or a Joint Committee of both, and that remains an attractive prospect to us. Therefore, as we move into a new Session, I hope the Minister can assure me that the Treasury and business managers in both Houses will look at making it a reality. We await the outcomes of the future regulatory framework review, which I hope will represent a significant step forward for all strands of oversight. Once we have digested the findings, our task will be to scrutinise a successor to FiSMA, and I repeat our call for legislation to receive the detailed pre-legislative scrutiny it deserves.

Scrutiny has been the central theme of the Bill. The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, said that we must look forward, and she commented that, in many ways, the theme of scrutiny has crossed parties as an apolitical discussion. I hope it will not be a matter of conflict between regulators and Parliament, and that the opposite will be true, as they must work together to make this scrutiny work. I also hope it will mean that we can have real confidence in the work of the regulators, and a real sense that their actions are fully understood by responsible politicians.

Covid-19

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Evans of Bowes Park (Con)]

Certainly, the Prime Minister, the CMO and other advisers have been talking to their Swedish counterparts regularly in order to learn lessons from there. Indeed, they have also been talking to other European countries such as Belgium, which have taken measures, in order to learn internationally. We are all learning the best way to deal with this virus, so I can certainly reassure my noble friend of that. As I said, we are trying to restore the NHS services that were suspended while we dealt with the initial impact of Covid. NHS England has issued guidance for the return of non-Covid health services to near normal levels, making use of the available capacity while protecting the most vulnerable from Covid. As I said, this is something that the department is very much focused on. The way to minimise disruption to other treatments is to deal with this virus as effectively as we can, so that we do not have a huge spike of people with Covid being admitted to hospital.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have now been asked.