Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Thursday 23rd March 2023 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as the Division Bells are rung and resume after 10 minutes.

Amendment 241FC

Moved by

Financial Services and Markets Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Committee stage
Monday 20th February 2023 Grand Committee

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, if there is a Division in the Chamber while we are sitting, the Committee will adjourn as soon as the Division Bells are rung and resume after 10 minutes, but self-evidently we are not expecting a Division.

Clause 27: Review of rules

Amendment 78

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

My Lords, it is a pleasure to open day five in Committee on the Bill. First, I will relay apologies from my noble friend Lady Kramer, who is not in her place, having had knee surgery last week. She is recovering well and will return as soon as she has permission from her surgeon.

Several of today’s groups concern accountability, both how regulators are accountable to Parliament and then, as with this first group, what that accountability to Parliament means. Is it more than a hot-seat grilling every now and then? What happens to the output of that accountability?

Here I challenge the Government, who have made much of the regulators’ accountability to Parliament in the consultations but then, during the passage of the 2021 Act, said that that accountability has nothing to do with government. We can all see through that. The examples that the Government have set are: failing to reply to committee reports in the allocated time; failing to find parliamentary time for debates on committee reports; and even failing to attend Lords committees, including such important committees as the Economic Affairs Committee and the Industry and Regulators Committee, which engage in financial services matters, and on both of which I and other noble Lords present have served for many years—so we know what we are talking about.

The question is: do the Government want to be part of this scrutiny or not? Do they want the regulators and Parliament to form their own arrangements together and maybe gang up on the Government? I have had experience of organising that in order to challenge the European Commission, and I can see similar seeds being sown here. This is the last chance saloon for the Government to stand by their advertising on parliamentary scrutiny.

I have eight amendments in this group, but it is really four for each of the FCA and PRA instances. I can be brief on the detail. They all relate to the independent reviews of regulators’ rules that can be commissioned by the Government. Amendments 78 and 145 insert into the Government’s powers of review the possibility to seek thematic review as well as reviews of specific rules. They do not compel the Government to do this; it is an empowerment. The Government would still have control over what they choose to implement, but it seems a reasonable power to have. The noble Baroness, Lady Noakes, has supported this amendment so, to go by the commentary that has been made, if we two agree then there must be something in it. It may well be that a thematic review would in fact be more useful for general issues rather than having to identify specific rules, which might not be comprehensive. I would want this if I were the Government.

Amendments 81 and 148 are related and more prescriptive, in that they require the Treasury to establish a rolling programme of thematic reviews and report annually to Parliament on that programme and any changes made to it in the light of other reviews that might be carried out for other circumstances. They also require a work programme for the next three years, along with indicative timetables. The Government would still have control of the programme, but a programme is required.

I have tabled these amendments because somebody should be, if you like, regulating the regulators. My attempt during the passage of the previous Bill to establish an oversight body failed to inspire the Government. These amendments highlight that all the responsibility therefore falls on government, and it is what a responsible Government might be expected to do.

Amendments 79 and 164 include parliamentary committee requests as a potential trigger for the Government to commission an independent review. Again, this is not a compulsion, as the power to seek that independent review would still reside with the Government. The Government claim that there is parliamentary oversight of regulators; this would be a small step in recognition of that, while respecting the work of committees and the evidence that they collect.

Finally, Amendments 80 and 147 require the person appointed to do the independent reviews to be approved by the Treasury Select Committee, as well as by the Treasury. If Parliament is to be regarded as having oversight, these are the kinds of things that endorse that status. I beg to move.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

The noble Baroness mentioned Amendment 164 but I wonder whether she meant Amendment 146, because Amendment 164 is in a later group.

[Baroness Bowles of Berkhamsted (LD)]

Yes, I think that is correct.

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[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I should repeat the declaration of interests I made at Second Reading. I am regulated by both the FCA and the PRA and am chairman of a publicly quoted bank, Secure Trust Bank. In tabling this amendment, I anticipated my noble friend’s response to the previous group. I have Amendments 89, 93, 97 and 109 in this group; Amendments 89 and 97 are the guts of it. Basically, they would enable Parliament to set up a committee—a Joint Committee or its own committee or whatever.

In making her case for the last set of amendments, my noble friend Lady Noakes pointed to a key point, which is about resources. The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, has talked about the scale of the task that is being put before the regulators. It is hard to believe that without some kind of statutory backing, the huge resources that will be required to do this task and to do it effectively are likely to be forthcoming. I think that is in the nature of things. Certainly, my experience as chairman of the Association of Conservative Peers has been that getting any change in this place is a lifetime task. I just do not see Parliament being able to rise to the challenge.

If my noble friend cannot countenance writing into the statute book that there should be a Joint Committee of both Houses, which I believe is the right solution, these amendments at least provide for that. It is evident from this quite short debate that every member of this Committee thinks that this is desirable, although I quite understand why my noble friend’s briefs say that it is not.

I do not wish to be rude about the Treasury Select Committee in any way but, as a former chairman of the Economic Affairs Committee—I am sure my noble friend Lord Bridges agrees—I have not detected within the Treasury Select Committee the kind of commitment that we see in the Select Committees of this House. That is because their members have constituency and other responsibilities. You can see that in the committee’s attendance and in the way in which it operates. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, pointed out, this is a monumental task.

Now, I hate all this consensus so I will introduce a degree of controversy. I voted for Brexit. I voted for Brexit because I believe in Parliament taking back control over our regulations. I did not vote to give all the European regulations, over which we have had insufficient parliamentary scrutiny and control, to a bunch of regulators who are not subject to any parliamentary control. From the Government’s point of view, when they keep being asked “What did Brexit ever do for us?” to refuse even minimal accountability over our most important earner and job creator is extraordinary.

We should listen very carefully to the points made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, in the debate on the previous group: this is a central constitutional matter. Without wandering into a Second Reading debate, throughout the Bill we have endless examples of where power is being taken away from Parliament by the Executive without being subject to scrutiny.

I am actually speaking to my amendments, in the hope that, at the very least, my noble friend will say that, as I made the case against my noble friend Lady Noakes’s amendments on the basis that it is for Parliament to decide, these amendments enable Parliament to decide what it should be. At the same time, I recognise that they do not deal with the issue of resources although—believe it or not—it is entirely up to Parliament how much resources its committees adopt. It is not within the Treasury’s control; Parliament votes resources to the Treasury, not the other way round.

My noble friend is a very effective and much respected Minister at the Dispatch Box but, if I were a Minister faced with a Committee as unanimous as this, knowing the views that were expressed at the Second Reading on the Bill, I would not hope to proceed without making a major concession in this area. Not doing so would make it more difficult for the passage of this legislation.

It is a great experience for me to have the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, support an amendment in my name. I am not used to this degree of consensus. That in itself ought to make my noble friend aware that she needs to take this away and come back with a government amendment that establishes a Joint Committee.

I will deal with the argument about the ISC, which my noble friend said is unique. It is indeed. It is a unique committee, because the powers that are operated by the security services are great. The powers that are operated by the regulators are great. We can argue that this is about confidentiality—it certainly is—but it is also about ensuring that people who wield great power are held to account, and that is missing from the Bill, as so many have said during this debate.

The other point I make to my noble friend is that yes, it is true that it is the only statutory committee that has been established, but we have made a fundamental change in taking financial regulation away from the European Union, where it was subject to considerable scrutiny—a moment of praise from me for the European Union and the wonderful work that the noble Baroness did as chair of ECOFIN. Whatever criticism one might make of the regulations, there was proper scrutiny, and that is completely absent here. Are we really going to say that we as a Government have delivered Brexit by making sure that there is little democratic accountability and less than was achieved in respect of the European Union?

In responding, I ask my noble friend to accept the amendments, but go further if she can.

[The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, I have to inform the Committee that if Amendment 89 is agreed, I cannot call Amendment 90 by reasons of pre-emption.

[Lord Bridges of Headley (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Forsyth for tabling this amendment. As he said, there has been an outbreak of consensus on this point overall, and the fact that the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, have also put their names to the amendment, shows what we have heard time and again on this Bill: that it does not go nearly far enough to increase parliamentary accountability and scrutiny.

As I said in a previous debate, and as my noble friend mentioned, we need to improve this Bill in three ways. First, we need to ensure that the regulators publish more data about their own performance. Secondly—this is an amendment we will come to on another Committee day—we need to create a new source of independent analysis of regulators’ actions and performance. Thirdly, by this amendment, as with those in previous groupings, we need to ratchet up parliamentary scrutiny.

I see this amendment—I use this word carefully—as a backstop. My noble friends who have Brexit dispositions may take exception to the word, but it is absolutely a backstop to what we need to achieve here, given the reservations that my noble friend the Minister made about my noble friend Lady Noakes’s previous amendment. As I have said before, and as my noble friend just mentioned, the Treasury Select Committee is an admirable body. We all know that it has created a new sub-committee to scrutinise consultations published by the regulators but, as many noble Lords will be aware, although consultations are very important, they are just one aspect of the regulators’ work. Furthermore, there are numerous consultations. I spent a joyous few minutes counting the number of consultations published last year by the FCA, PRA and the Payment Systems Regulator; I counted 75.

Finally, as my noble friend pointed out, there is expertise in this House. I will spare the blushes of those in this Room, but there is enormous expertise not just here or on the Economic Affairs Committee or the Industry and Regulators Committee but in numerous other aspects. That expertise should be mobilised effectively and systematically to scrutinise this avalanche of regulation. For those reasons alone, it is critical that the Bill ensures that this House—not just the other place—is seen as a key means of increasing scrutiny and accountability.

Before I end—I know that others want to speak—I say just this: increasing accountability and scrutiny should not be portrayed as a means of undermining independence. I very much hope that no one thinks that. The scrutiny of our regulators and their accountability to Parliament should and indeed must go hand in hand with their independence. This is not just to ensure that regulators are accountable, nor simply because there should be no regulation without representation, but because if regulators wield great powers, as my noble friend said, they must be seen to account for their actions in public, and those actions must be seen to be scrutinised and judged by Parliament to be appropriate and within their remit. The point is that doing so increases the legitimacy of the regulators themselves. That is why this debate is not arcane but highly relevant to the power and the position that regulators hold.

I was grateful to hear my noble friend the Minister’s constructive tone in her response on the previous group, so I end by asking her a very simple question; it requires only a yes or no answer. Does she think that this Bill contains sufficient measures to increase parliamentary scrutiny of the regulators in the light of the powers that those regulators are now getting—yes or no?

National Infrastructure

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 22nd January 2015 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rogers of Riverside (Lab)]

My Lords, we live in an urban age. Ten per cent of the world’s population lived in cities 100 years ago; today it is 50%, and in the next 30 years we shall see it at 80%. People are drawn by jobs and the possibility of meeting other people. They are the hearts of our culture and the engines of our wealth.

As part of this we need to invest in the infrastructure of cities, particularly in housing—the infrastructure of the everyday. Some 15 years ago, I chaired the Urban Task Force set up by my noble friend Lord Prescott. We said then that we needed 300,000 homes a year. That is more or less what we are saying again, but today we are for the first time building only one-third of this. We were building up to 400,000 after the war. In addition, we have some of the smallest—and in my view, the shoddiest—housing in the world. We need to rediscover our skills in creating cities that everyone wants to live in.

The only form of sustainable city is compact, mixed-use and well designed, using brownfield land, retrofitting and densification, supported by public transport, and has well designed public space—and a lot of it—for walking, cycling and leisure. For example, in the centre of Manhattan 60% of people walk to work—in a city that is known for cars. Such cities must have a mix of uses of living, working and leisure, for poor and rich, and we need to build affordable houses to make cities have a real social mix. We will meet our housing targets only if we make the most of our brownfield land, and England has among the most brownfield land of any country, first, because of a vast Industrial Revolution, which changed it completely; and secondly, because there are still remnants of the war.

That industrial change and its impact give us a tremendous opportunity to strengthen our existing cities. We have enough brownfield land for 1.5 million houses, at a medium density. That is according to government figures, and after the selection of certain areas of brownfield that are easily developable and which would link in with the cities we already have, so it is a low figure that misses out on a lot of things. That supply is constantly being replenished as industrial change continues, so 15 years ago we used lots of it but we still have the same amount. Left derelict, brownfield land is a tear in the urban fabric and a focus for crime and disorder. Intensification and retrofit add much more potential. Somewhere like Croydon, for example, has potential for new development within the urban fabric on the scale of a new town, and already has wonderful infrastructure systems. The centre of Croydon is nearly empty.

Therefore I believe—and I have studied this for many years—that building new towns is not sustainable, either regarding climate change or using already half-empty buildings which are left near those areas. The situation is made worse when the planning and building of new houses is led by volume house builders, whose primary concern is the bottom line—and I am sure they would agree. That would seem crazy anywhere else in western Europe.

I have good examples of urban regeneration, where the people and the local authority take responsibility.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords that this is a time-limited debate.

[Lord Rogers of Riverside]

We need to give elected local authorities the powers and resources to plan for new brownfield development, intensification and retrofit so that they can repair the tears in the urban fabric and build the houses that we need, building on brownfield land before green. With the right infrastructure investment, and the power taken back by local authorities, we will be able to build new towns in our cities, not outside them.

Medical Innovation Bill [HL]

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Friday 12th December 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston]

Before the noble Baroness sits down, I wanted, for clarity, to speak to two amendments at a time. I will speak to Amendment 13 in due course and say exactly what I meant. If the noble Baroness wishes me to speak to those amendments now I will do so.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

To clarify for the noble Lord, the amendments are grouped together, so he is required to speak to them in the group. He will, of course, have the right to come back at the end of the group and he may wish to include them at the end.

[Lord Winston]

I am very happy to speak to those amendments now. They are very simple. The question of the dental practitioner is simply that dental practitioners also are involved in maxillofacial surgery and other treatments that may require innovation. With regard to other practitioners who are not medically registered, we are going to require more and more nurses and other workers with university qualifications who will be conducting treatments, and it is therefore important that we clarify whether they will be able to innovate.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I must point out to the noble Lord that it is not in order for him to speak twice to a group of amendments at Report stage.

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[Baroness Farrington of Ribbleton (Lab)]

My Lords, I think that it would help the House if the government Whip could advise noble Lords on whether the appropriate time for Members of your Lordships’ House to speak to all the amendments in this group is now or later. At the moment, people are unaware of whether the net result of what my noble friend Lord Winston said was to degroup or whether we are in a position where Members must speak now to any of the amendments in the group.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I notice that the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, has spoken to the amendments which the noble Lord, Lord Winston, did not speak to. I will seek advice from the Clerk as to whether the noble Lord may wish to degroup the amendments to which he did not speak. I think that that would be up to the noble Lord. For the convenience of the House it might be clearer if he degrouped the amendments to which he did not speak. Does the noble Lord, Lord Winston, wish to do that?

[Lord Winston]

It is very kind of the Front Bench to offer that possibility. If I were to degroup an amendment, I would degroup the stem cell one and put it with Amendment 5, as it would fit better with patient safety. One of my difficulties is that the groupings are slightly odd in terms of the relevance of the different aspects of my amendments.

[Baroness Gardner of Parkes]

Perhaps I may raise a point. When you table an amendment, you are usually sent a draft list of the groupings. You are asked whether you are happy with that or whether you want your amendment to be grouped separately. I wonder why that has not happened in this case.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I thank my noble and learned friend for his suggestion. I think that the noble Lord, Lord Winston, suggested moving Amendment 13 into the group which begins with Amendment 5 but leaving Amendments 11 and 12 in this group. If we proceed on that basis, then, as my noble and learned friend said, when Amendments 11 and 12 are called, he will have the opportunity to speak.

[Baroness Jolly (LD)]

My Lords, this group of amendments relates to the scope of the Bill. As noble Lords are aware, the Bill relates to a decision by a doctor to depart from the existing range of accepted medical treatments for a condition. I make it clear that the Bill applies not to research but only to decisions relating to individual patient treatment. My noble friend Lord Saatchi and the Government listened to concerns expressed in Committee that the conditions of the Bill might add to the requirements under which researchers operate. Amendment 8 in the name of my noble friend Lord Saatchi responds to these concerns, clarifying that the Bill does not apply to treatment carried out for the purpose of research. As such, Amendment 9 removes the existing provision on research, which is no longer necessary.

My noble friend Lord Saatchi and the Government listened to concerns expressed in Committee and at the round-table event hosted by my noble friend on 11 November that cosmetic treatment may be subject to less scrutiny than other treatments. Peers were therefore reluctant that the Bill should apply to this area of practice. Amendment 10 ensures that the Bill does not apply to treatment which is carried out solely for cosmetic purposes. Beyond this, the Government do not consider it necessary to exclude certain treatments or conditions from the Bill.

Amendment 1 from the noble Lord, Lord Winston, seeks to clarify that a doctor would not have to rely on the Bill where time or place did not allow the required consultation. The Government do not view this as a necessary amendment as the Bill already makes it clear that there is no requirement to innovate. If a doctor chooses to innovate, it is for that innovating doctor to decide whether to rely on the protection of the Bill and therefore to take the steps set out under the Bill. Clause 2, as amended in Committee, ensures that the common law test of clinical negligence is not affected by the Bill.

My noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern suggested that Amendment 1 would be a helpful clarification to the Bill. Amendment 14 in the name of my noble friend Lord Saatchi will clarify that the Bill does not limit the circumstances in which the common law may be relied upon, and it expressly gives emergency treatment as an example. Amendment 1 is not necessary and could create confusion for doctors in determining exactly when the Bill applies. The amendment might also suggest that it is only in these limited circumstances that the Bill would not apply, whereas it is intended that doctors can choose whether to rely on the Bill, and it provides an option for them to demonstrate that they have acted responsibly. Amendment 14 proposed by my noble friend Lord Saatchi clarifies the point, confirming that the Bill does not limit the circumstances in which the common law may be relied upon, giving emergency treatment as one such example.

I want to pick up a point raised by my noble friend Lord Colwyn concerning placing GPs in a position where they are asked to innovate but are not able to do so. The Bill requires a doctor, in making a decision to innovate, to consider any opinions or requests expressed by, or in relation to, the patient in order to ensure that the decision to do so is taken responsibly. The clause in question does not confer any additional rights on patients to demand innovative treatment. However, it is crucial that, when making a decision to innovate, a doctor considers the view of that patient. As such, I hope that noble Lords will throw their support behind Amendment 14 put forward by my noble friend Lord Saatchi.

A further clarification is provided by my noble friend’s Amendment 15. In Committee, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, argued that the Bill does not offer an alternative defence to that under common law; rather, it is supplementary. The Government agree with that interpretation and also that the Bill’s current wording is not sufficiently clear on this point. Amendment 15 clarifies that a decision to innovate in accordance with the Bill does not prevent a doctor also relying on the existing common law defence under Bolam, and it would be a valuable addition to the Bill.

Amendments 11 and 12 seek to extend the application of the Bill to dentists as well as doctors. The Bill applies only to doctors, as it responds to concerns that doctors have raised concerning the fear of litigation. The Bill is aimed at reassuring doctors who feel unable to innovate due to concerns about litigation. The Department of Health’s consultation on the Medical Innovation Bill revealed that some doctors find the threat of litigation to be a block to innovation, although this view was not universally held. The consultation did not reveal the same demand for the Bill from dentists. If the Bill passes, we will consider its impact and will continue to listen to the concerns of all healthcare professionals.

Amendment 12 also seeks to limit the application of the Bill to practitioners or health workers who are registered by the GMC or to dentists who are registered by the General Dental Council. The Government consider this amendment to be unnecessary as the Bill’s scope is already limited to doctors, who are defined under the Bill as registered medical practitioners. All registered medical practitioners are registered with the GMC.

Amendment 6 in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Winston, seeks to define the meaning of innovation under the Bill. Over the course of the debates on this Bill, a number of suggestions have been brought forward on how to approach this issue. Drafting a positive definition of innovation is a difficult task. This is revealed by the addition in this amendment of paragraph (e) relating to the application of a monitoring device or biosensor, which has been absent from prior definitions. It is crucial that the definition of innovation under the Bill is future-proof and clear for both doctors and patients.

The Bill defines innovation as a situation where a doctor decides to depart from the existing range of accepted medical treatments for a condition. This will be well understood by doctors, who are best placed to know whether they are following accepted treatments. Here I pick up three points, one being from the noble Lord, Lord Colwyn. I was asked about upholding the advice given by NICE and whether the Bill would allow doctors to go against NICE guidelines. The Bill does not impact on the existing legal obligation for NHS commissioners to provide funding for drugs that have been recommended in NICE technology appraisals. However, it will remain for doctors to decide on the most clinically appropriate treatment for their patients, whether or not they are innovating under the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Winston]

In another place on Tuesday evening, there was an Adjournment debate moved by the honourable Member for Totnes, who is a qualified medical practitioner. In her outstanding speech, she raised serious concerns about the issue of patient safety. In particular, she cited her concern that patients, particularly those with cancer, may be at serious risk from quack practitioners who are offering a quick-fix solution for money rather than a course of authentic treatment, and possibly entering a clinical trial. The effect of this on cancer treatment could be disastrous. First, not only might we end up endangering patients by their entering a treatment that is not valid or appropriate. Secondly, research may be inhibited because we cannot fill the clinical trials needed to prove that cancer drugs are effective.

We are now in the age of genomic medicine. Genomic medicine means, more and more, that each cancer is different. Essentially, we are understanding that there are more and more mutations. As each of us in this Chamber gets older, we develop more and more mutations, so we are more liable to get different cancers in different cells. Of course, there are the common ones, but it is worth bearing in mind that more than 50% of cancers are actually quite rare. It is important to understand that each individual rare cancer makes a massive difference to life expectancy and health in Britain. Indeed, about one-third of us in this Chamber will suffer with a cancer and, on the figure I just quoted, roughly half of those will be rare cancers.

We are beginning to understand that each of these cancers can be targeted with a specific genomic medicine which may apply only to that cancer. A classic example was the case of vemurafenib, which was used for a rather unusual form of skin cancer and resulted in metastases massively drying up—but it would not work for other cancers, because the mutations were different.

It is imperative, as Cancer Research UK clearly says, that we get patients who are able to go into trials. Apart from the fact that it would be disastrous for the safety of the patients who are being treated irrationally by illogical treatments, there is also a question of patient safety generically for our entire British population. That is the purpose of the amendment.

I have focused on one area in my Amendment 13, which is the use of cells and tissues that are biologically derived. The reason I included that is because stem cells will clearly be an important use in future. Already, we are seeing practitioners setting up quack medicine which is not proven, where they are injecting cells into patients without proper validation. That is clearly dangerous. It is being used for dementia, some forms of motor neurone disorders and other neurological disorders, such as disseminated sclerosis. A number of cancer patients have also had these horrendous treatments. That is likely to burgeon, so it must be taken very seriously by the House.

We have to be absolutely clear that whatever we do, we do not endanger patient safety. There are some interesting examples in the history of medicine. The noble Lord, Lord Walton, who comes from Newcastle, told me yesterday that he is hugely against the Bill. He is very concerned that it will damage patient safety, but for health reasons—as your Lordships know, he is now 92—he felt unable to come down from Newcastle today. He reminded me of a case which I knew of way back in the 1950s. In Oxford, where he came from at that time, there was a Dr Honor Smith. Dr Smith thought that the injection of tuberculin into the spinal cord of patients with neurological disorders—in particular, with disseminated sclerosis—might alleviate their condition. In fact, it did not.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I apologise for intervening, but is the noble Lord now speaking to Amendment 13 as well? Is he speaking to Amendment 13 in this group?

[Lord Winston]

I am speaking to both.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

No, no. We are in the second group. The noble Lord is moving Amendment 2 in the second group, but he seems to be speaking also to Amendment 13 in this group. Is that correct? If it is, then other noble Lords will want to respond to Amendment 13 as well. Perhaps the noble Lord could clarify which amendments he intends to speak to in this group.

Thames Garden Bridge

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord Deighton]

In keeping with the spirit of the House, I will try to give one answer to those three important questions. The key to the Garden Bridge is that it will be two things for the price of one; it will be a garden and a bridge, and will combine the benefits of both.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, there seems no obvious regular source of ongoing income for this imaginative project, and gardens can be high maintenance. Will the Minister expand on his previous comment by saying what security the Garden Bridge Trust is providing to ensure that it can prune and weed the bridge in perpetuity? Should there be a shortfall, whose responsibility would it be to pick that up?

[Lord Deighton]

The issue with a garden bridge is that it is more about gardening than it is about painting, which is the case with the Forth Bridge. The initial plan for maintenance is that it will be assumed by Transport for London along with its ongoing maintenance responsibilities around London. Of course, if, as part of the capital fundraising campaign, the Garden Bridge Trust can also persuade somebody to take on the ongoing maintenance responsibilities, that would be particularly welcome.

Economic Prosperity and Employment

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Thursday 18th July 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord Haskel]

That this House takes note of the role of government in generating economic prosperity and employment.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, the timing for the next debate is very tight indeed. Could I encourage all noble Lords to keep within their time limit, in order to enable the noble Lord, Lord Haskel, to have a few minutes to respond at the end of the debate?

Education: English Baccalaureate Certificate

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, I am most grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, for stimulating this important debate on a subject about which he is clearly passionate, as are other noble Lords who have taken part. I entirely agree with him about the importance of the creative arts. This Government are fully committed to a rigorous and demanding arts education and believe that artistic education in all its forms should be made accessible to every child. We are looking systematically at all aspects of the curriculum and qualifications in schools. We have taken steps to address poor value vocational qualifications, with changes to performance tables from 2014. The new national curriculum will be introduced from September 2014, and from 2015 teaching of new English baccalaureate certificates will start. I am grateful to my noble friend Lady Perry for clarifying the difference between the EBacc, which is the performance measure, and the EBacc certificates, which are the composite parts.

All pupils should have access to high quality teaching in arts and creative subjects. That has become apparent from a number of noble Lords this evening. Arts subjects, music and design and technology remain in the national curriculum from primary school to the end of key stage 3. Students are entitled to take an arts subject in key stage 4. We will publish shortly the draft national curriculum. In reforming it, we aim to give teachers greater flexibility over how to teach, so that more children can be inspired by great teaching.

I reassure noble Lords that we are not removing or downgrading any cultural subject in the national curriculum. We believe that all pupils should have the opportunity to study a strong academic core to the age of 16. Other high performing jurisdictions already secure this for their young people; it should be no less so for England. The noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, and others referred to the importance of that key ability in maths and English.

The EBacc is designed to tackle the inequality of opportunity that saw only 10% of pupils in schools with a high proportion of children on free school meals tackle EBacc subjects in 2010. The figure this year is 41%. The EBacc is helping to drive the take-up of modern foreign languages, about which many noble Lords are concerned. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, and my noble friends Lord Clement-Jones and Lord Watson, referred to the dramatic decline in modern languages when they ceased to be compulsory at key stage 4. We are certainly watching the effects of not having subjects as compulsory; however, there are no exact parallels between languages and the arts subjects in that way. The EBacc is not compulsory as an overarching qualification; it is still possible for schools to respond to their pupils’ needs through other qualifications.

The success of the EBacc does not mean the exclusion of other subjects, and schools which do well in the English baccalaureate also make time for artistic and cultural education and for sporting activities. There is time in the school day and week for them to do so. Strong schools, with good leaders, recognise that excellence in the arts helps drive academic success, and they use arts and cultural education to inspire and delight their students. That is why improving the quality of leadership is at the heart of the Government’s school reform programme. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Sutherland, Ofsted is already tasked with checking that schools are offering a rounded education. We will certainly be monitoring closely to ensure that that continues to be the case in the coming months and years.

Following on from Darren Henley’s excellent work to review musical and cultural education, we have published a national plan for music education. I echo the congratulations of the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, on the well deserved OBE for Darren Henley in the honours list. We are also planning to publish a cultural education plan in the spring.

Noble Lords are suggesting that the Government are doing nothing to encourage arts and education. However, we are allocating £171 million over three years for the network of music education hubs, and I hope that that will address the enthusiasm of the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, for music. We know that there is a decline in GCSEs in music, but we are looking at ways to encourage and revive the interest in music through these hubs.

We have the internationally renowned music and dance scheme, which supports exceptionally talented young musicians and dancers. We are funding the creation of a National Youth Dance Company, jointly with Arts Council England. Along with Arts Council England, we are supporting the expansion of the Sorrell Foundation’s art and design Saturday clubs. In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Whitaker, these clubs support the importance of design; they have had tremendous success so far.

With substantial support from the British Film Institute, we are developing a new national film academy. The noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, mentioned the importance of film. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, also referred to encouraging the take-up of arts in different ways. We also have the Shakespeare schools festival to give more children the chance to stage a Shakespeare play in a theatre. Schools receive an RSC tool kit to help teachers bring Shakespeare alive. I have been to one or two of these Shakespeare in schools events; it is inspirational to see the youngsters coming alive reproducing Shakespeare on stage. Schools of all abilities are involved in that.

I have heard it said that by proposing English baccalaureate certificates only in EBacc subjects, we are devaluing arts subjects. The noble Baroness, Lady Morris, my noble friend Lord Storey and the noble Earl mentioned the concern that we are devaluing the arts subjects and that unless performance measures recognise achievements in arts subjects, school leaders will not devote time to them. I do not believe this to be true of good leaders. Let me reassure noble Lords that we are considering these issues and shortly we will be consulting on future accountability measures. I would add in respect of whether the arts should become a sixth pillar that the suitability of an examination structure that is based on limiting internal assessment of arts and cultural subjects would not necessarily lend itself to arts and cultural subjects which rely on the demonstration of practical skills and portfolios of work. It is something else to take into account if we are considering adding pillars to the English baccalaureate.

The interest of noble Lords in this debate is evidence of the passion that this subject rightly inspires. The Secretary of State for Education and the Minister for Culture recently met a range of people in the world of arts, including Sir John Sorrell and Sir Peter Bazalgette, to discuss how best to promote excellent arts education. They have asked our leaders in arts and culture to champion and promote practical experiences and opportunities to complement the national curriculum programmes of studies.

Perhaps I may pick up on one or two of the other points made in the debate. I echo the comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Kidron, that all disciplines are vital for our collective future, and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Hughes, about the need to monitor to see whether these subjects are going into decline as a result of the EBacc coming in. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Exeter reminded us of the importance of religion in music and arts education and, although not directly related to this debate, of the question about whether religion should be a compulsory part of education. I can assure him that all these issues are up for discussion as we move towards the new format for key stage 4. RE is a compulsory subject for pupils, who continue to take it at GCSE level in significant numbers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hughes of Stretford, reminded us of the international baccalaureate qualification, which of course is taken at the age of 18, not 16. The English baccalaureate is the qualification taken at 16 years old.

[Baroness Hughes of Stretford]

There is in fact a middle years programme that is taken up to the age of 16 in the international baccalaureate. That is what I was referring to. Students up to the age of 16 are required to take eight subjects, not five.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I apologise to the noble Baroness because I misunderstood her comment. The international baccalaureate certainly is a wonderfully rounded programme, but it is not suitable for all pupils—just as the English baccalaureate will not be suitable for all pupils. Schools will be able to opt for different ways of meeting the needs of their pupils. A number of noble Lords referred to the inspirational nature of the Olympic and Paralympic Games last year where we saw arts and music so brilliantly on show. They were a true credit to all the skills and talents that we have in this country.

I am conscious that I have not addressed all the issues that were raised in this brief debate, but I can see the strength of feeling in the House which no doubt will manifest itself again and will be relayed to the department when the discussions on these subjects take place. I thank all noble Lords for their wide-ranging and powerful contributions to this fascinating debate. I hope that I have reassured your Lordships that the Government are committed to the arts in the UK. We have demonstrated that commitment by investing more than £2.9 billion over this spending review period. We should never forget that a good education, including high quality arts and cultural education, has the power to change a child’s future, whatever their background. We should be proud of the UK’s international standing in the creative industries and acknowledge the invaluable part that the arts play in the life of the country.

Autumn Statement

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Sassoon]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said earlier in another place, the British economy is healing. We are on the right track and turning back now would be a disaster. The deficit has already been cut by a quarter and is forecast to continue falling every year of the Parliament. I find it extraordinary that the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, questions the OBR’s explanation of this by saying that policy decisions are in some way fiddling the books. It is precisely because of the policy decisions that we took in the Budget and are taking again today that that deficit reduction continues to be on track at the same pace.

Since this Government took office, more than 1 million private sector jobs have been created and exports to emerging markets have doubled. In a tough global economic climate we are making progress. The noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, referred to the growth forecast. The OBR’s growth forecast for the UK next year is that the economy will grow faster than, for example, that of France or Germany.

Let me remind your Lordships of a few examples of how the Government are protecting the economy, supporting growth and ensuring fairness, and of the measures that have been welcomed today. The Government have confirmed an extra £5.5 billion of additional infrastructure investment and support for businesses. That is in addition to the similar £5 billion switch from current to capital expenditure last year. The noble Lord may talk about drops in the ocean but the position now is that public and private infrastructure investment in this country is running at £33 billion a year. Under the previous Government, total average annual infrastructure spending was £29 billion. It is very important that we invest in the future of our infrastructure.

There will be a further 1% cut in the main rate of corporation tax from April 2014 to 21%, bringing it down to its lowest level—far lower than that of our most direct competitors and one of the lowest in the G20—and from this coming April the personal allowance will rise by a further £235 on top of the rise previously announced, making it the highest cash increase ever.

I shall now answer one or two of the other points made by the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, on quantitative easing. First, the numbers are set out scrupulously transparently to show the effects before and after the transfer of cash on the income side from the APF to the Treasury. The numbers are completely clear. On his question about the contingency, the contingent liability on QE has been set out, and will continue to be set out in the notes to the whole of the Government’s accounts, as it should be. The OBR, in its document, points out, the effect of QE on its central case when it unwinds as being a significant reduction in debt.

Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell, asks about the distributional effects of all of this. This is an important question, because he asks about transparency and the way we disclose the numbers. The previous Government never set out the distributional effects of their Budgets or Autumn Statements in their pre-Budget reports. We have published today on the Treasury website an 18-page document that goes further than even this Government have gone before in their distributional analysis, with several new tables that I warmly commend to the noble Lord, Lord Eatwell. These confirm, as at every stage in this Government’s deficit reduction plan, that those with the broadest shoulders bear the largest brunt. That is there in the document “Impact on households”.

So, as my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer said, the deficit is down, borrowing is down and jobs are being created. It is a hard road, but we are making progress and, in everything we do, we are helping those who want to work hard and get on.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, perhaps I may remind noble Lords that Statements are a time for brief comments and questions. The briefer the questions the greater the number of noble Lords who will be able to contribute, so I urge everybody to be considerate.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Lord Phillips of Sudbury]

Can I now intervene, as I intended to, before the noble Lord, Lord Flight, sits down?

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

It has nothing to do with sitting down.

[Lord Phillips of Sudbury]

I thank my noble friend. I withdraw the sedentary remark. The noble Lord is experienced in these affairs, so can he assure the House that the situation will not arise where somebody with no financial sophistication whatever enters into arrangements with one of the agents about whom he is talking—for example, in respect of a pension—only to find 15 years later that there has been a gross failure of propriety?

[Lord Phillips of Sudbury]

Very often a person taking out a pension, in particular, is wholly dependent upon the advice of the financial adviser.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I remind my noble friend that on Report one may speak only once to any amendment.

[Lord Flight]

My Lords, the biggest contributors to messing up pensions over the past 15 years or so—making them so complicated—have been Governments. I was looking into my own pension arrangements and found that I could not understand them.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I think that the rule applies also to the mover of the amendment.

[Lord Peston]

I am sorry; I am a bit lost on the procedure here. I was under the impression that if someone was moving an amendment he could be asked any number of questions and reply to them. When did we invent a rule that said that we could not ask questions and ask the person moving the amendment to answer them? I am not convinced that we are not making a new rule here. By the way, that is not my speech, which I am about to make.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

My Lords, on Report the mover may reply to any questions at the end but does not reply individually in the course of the debate.

[Lord Peston]

I hate to prolong this but I am not certain that that is right. How are we to conduct the clarification of the amendment if we do not get an answer to an early question in order to ask a later one? I am totally lost as to how we are handling this. We should not forget that this is an immensely complicated Bill and many of us have had great difficulties dealing with it. I have a question for the noble Lord, Lord Flight, just to clarify matters and it may be that someone else will build on that, but we are being told that we cannot do that. That does not seem to be a very helpful way of dealing with this Bill.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I am sorry to intervene again on the noble Lord, Lord Peston, who has many more years of experience of this House than I do, but this is not the form that Report stage takes. The mover may reply to questions at the end of the debate, but the debate does not go backwards and forwards in the way that it does at other stages of the Bill.

Financial Services Bill

Baroness Garden of Frognal Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Garden of Frognal]

I beg to move that further consideration on Report be adjourned during pleasure for 10 minutes.