Humanist Weddings

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 3rd February 2025 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. I do not know the answer, but I will write to her, because she raises a very important point. When she asked a similar question a few weeks ago, I made the point that I regularly came across those types of scenarios when I sat as a family court magistrate. I add that the myth of common-law marriage exists not just in particular sectors of our society but across it. It includes the idea that women—it is usually women—get rights, but that is absolutely not the case. That is why the Government are undertaking to look at how the rights of people who have been in long-standing, cohabiting relationships can be addressed when those couples split up.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to various difficulties, but Liberal Democrats and humanists do not see them. I echo the request of the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton: can those of us with a special interest in this area meet and put some new ideas forward, to make sure that we can move this along?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

I am very happy to meet the noble Baroness.

Rape: Prosecutions

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 30th January 2025 Grand Committee

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, for convening this debate, which is very necessary and comes at a very appropriate time. Before we even start, however, digital research from the CSEW showed that fewer than one in six victims—16%—of sexual assault by rape or penetration had reported the incident to the police. The most common reasons given for non-reporting were embarrassment, at 40%; that they did not think the police could help, at 38%; and that they thought it would be humiliating, at 34%. All of those may well be true, but also, one-quarter of victims thought that the police would not believe them. That is something we can start working on strongly with the new Government.

I think we can safely assume that, whatever the final numbers are, the number of charges, let alone convictions, is infinitesimal compared to the number of rapes perpetrated. The number of prosecutions is increasing, although, as we have heard, conviction rates are decreasing. However, there is also an increase in what the CPS calls victim attrition, which a number of colleagues have mentioned this afternoon: prosecutions that stopped because the victim no longer supported, or was unable to support, a conviction. No wonder many perpetrators continue with impunity, given that they are never likely to be prosecuted. That is one of the most fundamental things. We know that certainty of prosecution is a big issue when it comes to perpetrators considering what they are doing.

What steps would make a difference? The causes and outcomes are very complex. First, there is the “He said, she said” argument. Police must gather enough evidence to refer a case to the Crown Prosecution Service, but there has been a great increase in the information available to consider: mobile phones, social media, et cetera. This does not always work out in the victim’s favour; it is a continuation of the “She must have been asking for it” type of argument. Being asked to hand over their mobile phone has led many victims to withdraw their complaint. In the words of Dame Vera Baird:

“They cannot face the unwarranted and unacceptable intrusion into their privacy”.


Charges for rape are as low—or nearly as low—as ever. The number of cases that have collapsed after failures in the way they were prosecuted is too high. That is totally inappropriate, and it is depressing. Then there are the time delays. According to the Home Affairs Committee, many victims say that if they had known how long it would take—we have heard that it can take 10 months, possibly now even 18 months—they would not have called the case to the attention of the police in the first place. That puts other victims in greater danger, too.

If there is enough evidence, only then can the accused perpetrator be charged. In the year to September 2021, just 1.3% of rape cases resulted in a charge, compared with 7.1% for all other recorded crime. Considering that we so frequently know the identity of the perpetrator, I am sure that everyone in this Room would agree that that is totally unacceptable. The CPS is bringing fewer rape prosecutions, often because the police do not put them forward. Why are fewer cases being put forward? In some cases, it is because the police have heard that the CPS is making fewer prosecutions. There is a self-fulfilling prophecy for noble Lords.

Then there is the funding. The Institute for Government estimated that the CPS budget was cut by 28% between 2009 and 2018. We are told that the Government have announced £40 million to support victims of crime, at least half of which is for community-based sexual violence and domestic abuse. Is that enough? I am sorry to say that I do not think it is—not by a long chalk. Cuts are still being made. RASA Merseyside, which supports victims with advice, counselling and guidance through the justice system, says that its funding has been reduced in real terms by 18%. There is more demand but fewer staff, leading to less support.

What is to be done? We have had some great suggestions this afternoon, all of which I am sure the Minister will carefully consider. The new Labour Government have described prosecution rates for rape as “shamefully low” and pledged “tougher enforcement and protection”. They said:

“The most prolific and harmful perpetrators will be relentlessly targeted, using tactics normally reserved for terrorists and organised crime”.


That is fully justified, given the amount of terror they cause.

The Government have also pledged to fast-track rape cases, with specialist courts at every Crown Court location in England and Wales, which sounds good. I would be interested to know within what timescale the Minister thinks we may get those specialist courts up and running.

I certainly welcome the Government’s announcement of plans to

“roll out free, independent legal advocates for victims and survivors of adult rape”

from 2025. They said the advocates would ensure that victims

“have support to enforce their legal rights, for example, in relation to the use of personal records during an investigation or in court”.

Many fundamental assumptions are holding us back. I am intrigued and heartened by the suggestions we have heard this afternoon. So come on, Labour, let us get on with the job. Can we not think a little bit more outside the box?

Prisons: Imprisonment for Public Protection

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 12th December 2024 Grand Committee

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what further steps they are taking to reduce the size of the Imprisonment for Public Protection prison population following the publication on 15 November of the HMPPS Annual Report on the IPP Sentence.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, first, I apologise for my germy little self. I will try not to infect anybody else.

This is a bittersweet moment for me. It is great to see the measures that we fought for so hard for in the Bill come to fruition, but in my heart I know that it is all based on the faulty premise that all these prisoners could achieve release if they jumped through all the hoops and tried hard enough for long enough. Imagine an engine that was fundamentally flawed in its design, so much so that it was discontinued, and no more parts were made after 2012. For some reason, we are refusing to scrap that faulty engine, and many of the parts that might have worked initially are now falling apart or are irreparably damaged. If we were talking about a real engine, we would scrap it, but we are not talking about a real engine, are we? We are talking about human beings whom we have irreparably damaged by trying to fit them into the maw of a machine that has torn them apart in the process.

The $50,000 question is, if we are not going to do a resentencing exercise, what is the alternative? Further fiddling with a broken system is not going to do it. The prison system is, to extend the engine analogy, running dangerously hot at 97% capacity. Perhaps we should not expect too much until after the sentencing review and the introduction of a culture that is radically different from the “throw away the key” mentality.

I commend everyone who has worked so hard to produce this report, and the people who work tirelessly within the proverbial machine to keep it limping along. The report is seven months late. Even though it was completed in April this year, it was not released until November. Various reasons have been given, but with changes moving apace—we hope—it would be good to know what further progress has been made since April. The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, was particularly keen to ask this question had he been able to be here today.

There is a lot of information to digest, but also questions that, with hindsight, I wish I had asked before. On access to and the quality of the courses, I am still getting reports not just that prisoners cannot find the courses they need but that the courses are often not fit for purpose. I have been told that half of prisoners cannot access courses. With the system running at capacity, this is unsurprising, so my first question to the Minister is, what is the average waiting time for each course recommended for each prisoner? What work has been done to assess the effectiveness of these courses?

My next point concerns sex offenders. Four hundred and sixty-five IPP sex offenders have never been released, although some of the initial offences were fairly low level. I know that the Secretary of State before last had a policy of turning down every IPP prisoner sentenced for a sexual offence who had been deemed fit for parole by the Parole Board. Here, the Catch-22 of proving that you are not going to reoffend by doing something you have had no opportunity to do really kicks in. This will not do, but I do not know whether any special measures are being taken to fit sex offenders into whatever passes for acceptability for release. If the answer is obvious, and I did not read the report well enough, perhaps the Minister will write to me and not waste further time.

On reasons for recall, are there any figures available for this? From the report, it seems that the number of recalls has been pretty steady in the past six years or so. I would have hoped that the numbers would have decreased following discussions we have had with the Probation Service, which says that reasons such as turning up late for a probation meeting are now much more tolerantly treated, rather than simply returning IPP prisoners to prison. Is it fair to ask that question now when improvements are promised? Yet individuals and organisations have said that these reasons persist. The mean time on recall has more than doubled since 2015. One would hope that the new focus on IPPs will now cause that figure to drop dramatically.

On reconviction rates, this—of all figures—indicated to me what is wrong with the overly risk-averse approach to the IPP sentence and the treatment of IPP prisoners. Only 0.5% of IPP prisoners released were subsequently convicted of a serious further offence. I do not have access to this figure, so will the Minister say, from the current figures available to him, what percentage of “ordinary” prisoners convicted of a serious further offence were reoffenders? In other words, what percentage of normal prisoners—whatever a “normal” prisoner is—reoffended with a serious offence? I bet my bottom dollar it is more than 0.5%.

Is it not time to abandon this risk-averse approach and to change the culture that blames probation and parole services for failure and congratulate them on all the difficult work that they do? Nobody can get it right all the time, unless we keep every offender in prison—we are doing quite a good job of that at the moment. Do we not need a more realistic, balanced approach, a bit more like the one we give to ordinary prisoners today? The system works, to a degree, and, as far as can be managed without omnipotence, without locking up some people for life on the off chance that they might reoffend. There are prisoners dying of cancer, confined to wheelchairs, who are still serving an IPP sentence. Shall we build a bit of compassion into this wonky, dysfunctional machine of ours or, better still, design something else which is less likely to turn an IPP sentence into an actual life sentence? I welcome the PMB introduced by the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, and I will strongly support it when it comes before the House. If not resentencing, we still need an alternative to the dysfunctional system that we have.

I look forward to the contributions of other noble and noble and learned Lords who know a lot more than I do and to the response of the Minister, who is very much put upon to deliver messages that we are not always minded always to hear.

Humanist Marriages

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Monday 2nd December 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, my answer is the same as that given to the previous questions, which is that there are indeed anomalies in weddings law within England and Wales; they cut across many religious and non-religious groups, and we want to look at the question in the round.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, just to change the angle for a little bit, humanists have a long tradition of conducting same-sex wedding ceremonies, with LGBT people much more likely to be non-religious than the population as a whole. Does the Minister agree that such a change in the law would be significant for same-sex couples?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

The statistic that the noble Baroness cited is accurate from my experience. Yes, such a change would have a disproportionate benefit for same-sex couples, and that factor should be taken into account in the review.

Imprisonment for Public Protection (Re-sentencing) Bill [HL]

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 15th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

I echo the words of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan; he has nicked half of my speech—we will have words afterwards, I am sure. Seriously, however, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Woodley, on all the work he has put into bringing forward this Bill. We have had well-informed, passionate and eloquent speeches from all noble Lords.

We have an outbreak of consensus in the House today—I and all noble Lords very much welcome the Bill. It would right an injustice perpetrated on the unfortunate rump of individuals sentenced to indeterminate sentences, who, after years, are still languishing in prison. Some of the case stories that noble Lords have brought this morning will stay with me. I particularly wanted to address that rump of people. According to Sir Nic Dakin’s recent letter, 1,132 prisoners have never been released from their indeterminate sentence. I have spoken many times about the torture these prisoners face, so I will not bang on about it again, particularly in the light of all the examples given this morning.

I welcome the changes made by the last Government in shortening the licence period and all the good things that they introduced—which have been alluded to by previous speakers, so there is no need to repeat them. Concerted efforts are being made by the noble Lord and people in the Prison and Probation Service to make as many of these people as possible fit for release. It seems to me that this is contingent, at least in part, on the energy, effort and, frankly, money and human resources available to expedite this. Progress on releasing these prisoners is slow, to say the very least. UNGRIPP, the prisoners charity, estimates that, at this pace, IPP prisoners will still be in prison in 10 years’ time. But I fear that the situation is worse than that, and I will explain why in a minute.

I thank the Minister for his letter, together with Sir Nic Dakin MP, outlining all the changes for the better that are currently happening. But the conclusions they draw—especially the concept of resentencing resulting in a mass exodus of IPP prisoners—are faulty in my view, and several noble Lords alluded to this. For the 1,132, the torture continues. We—the Government—have treated these people so badly that many are damaged now and may never be deemed safe enough to be released.

The Minister has been most generous with his time for those of us wishing to see the end of this final chapter of this sorry saga. Last week, a cross-party group of us met to discuss the best course of action. We all argued strongly for resentencing, as has every noble Lord who has spoken this morning and reiterated these arguments. There is no need for me to reiterate them. Several suggestions have come forward for how this could be expedited. The noble Lord, Lord Woodley, talked about the Justice Committee and all the thought, energy and effort that has gone into that. The noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, suggested that we do not impinge on the justice system any further and recruit some retired High Court judges and King’s Counsels.

I challenge the Minister on what we should do with those people who will never be fit for release. Is he seriously suggesting we leave them in limbo, in a constant state of psychological torture, for ever? What will the Government do if they will not conduct a resentencing exercise with these sad individuals? If any of these 1,132 were to be sentenced for the same crimes today, one sentence they would absolutely not be given is an indeterminate sentence for public protection. So why not be honest with them, resentence them and give them appropriate treatment for their current state of mental health, rather than leave them there and do nothing?

Humanist Weddings

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

My Lords, unfortunately, the timescale is “in due course”. Nevertheless, there is a commitment to look at this and to look at the question in the round. The noble Lord’s question was answered by the noble Lord, Lord Desai: there are other groups that also believe they are special, and they want special recognition—Sharia wives might be one such group. We do not want to legislate by secondary legislation; we do not think that is appropriate in this example. That is why we will take our time and come back with a considered view.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords,

“the Liberal Democrats clearly support this change; the Labour Party supports this change; the Government in Wales support this change; the Government in Scotland support this change; and, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Pickles, it is ultimately going to be a political decision, so why are the Government waiting for the Law Commission’s report?”.—[Official Report, 25/04/22; col. 9.]

These are not my words but the words of the Minister himself. I despair, to be honest. The Law Commission has now reported, as he knows. Will he answer now his own question? When will this happen?

[Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)]

Unfortunately, the answer is the same as the one I gave to earlier questions: it will be in due course. I understand the strength of feeling on this matter. There are a lot of other issues to be considered within this context, and the Government want to take time to do it properly.

Prison Capacities

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Thursday 12th September 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Burt of Solihull]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to address challenges around prison capacities, and to ensure the safety and wellbeing needs of vulnerable prisoners.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I am so glad that so many noble Lords have expressed their wish to speak in this debate, and I am sorry that each noble Lord will have only a short speaking time. I will try to be succinct. Please do not waste time congratulating me on securing the debate.

I thank all the agencies that have sent information, which I have heavily leaned on, including the Howard League for Penal Reform, and of course our excellent Library.

We are in a sorry mess with our Prison Service today. The number of prisoners is double what it was just over 20 years ago, and the average length of sentences has doubled. One does not have to be a statistical genius to work out that there is some kind of causal connection.

The Minister himself has described this increase as a societal addiction to punishment, leading to sentences that are much too long. I was delighted to read that the Government have indicated that they will review sentencing—a move that is very welcome indeed. I wonder if I can tempt the Minister to say a little more about this review, such as how soon it might take place, what sentences it would cover, and whether alternatives to prison will be used more frequently.

On the subject of sentence reviews, will the Government consider implementing the recommendations of the Justice Select Committee to the previous Government on imprisonment for public protection, including a resentencing exercise for that unfortunate rump of individuals still serving sentences that are today obsolete? Today, no one receives this cruel sentence, and no one has since 2012. The British Psychological Society describes such a sentence as leading to a sense of anxiety, helplessness and depression, with self-harm and suicidal behaviour. I strongly commend the work of the previous Government, in particular that of the former Secretary of State Alex Chalk, on diminishing the time on licence and delivering more improvements for IPP prisoners. But the point remains: all this falls short of the one thing that would make the difference—having the certainty of a release date.

IPPs are just one problem confronting the prison system, and those people are not the only vulnerable group suffering in our prisons today. Women prisoners are another; their travails warrant a separate debate in their own right. While they themselves are low risk, they typically suffer from trauma, domestic abuse, mental ill-health and substance misuse. Their rates of self-harm are eight times that in the male estate. And all that is before we take into account the separation effects on families and children.

Mental health problems are also huge. The British Psychological Society says that nine out of every 10 prisoners enter prison with at least one mental health or substance abuse problem. There is a complex cocktail of health and social problems. In the last year alone there has been a 24% increase in self-harm and a rise of 27% in the number of assaults in the men’s estate. Too many prisoners mean that there is not enough space, and not enough resources, to make a prisoner’s experience rehabilitative, or even safe.

Recently, the BBC’s Sima Kotecha wrote a piece about Pentonville prison, describing the dire conditions, in which most prisoners were being held in their cells for up to 22 hours a day. I think if those prisoners were animals, the RSPCA would be called. Overcrowding makes everything so much worse. Prison officers have to deal with a highly inflammatory situation. Trying to keep prisoners and themselves safe preoccupies most of their time, and rehabilitation sometimes goes out of the window—no wonder recidivism gets worse.

I hope the Minister will outline a more effective plan to control the eternally rising prisoner numbers—a plan that does not necessarily use prison. He himself has said that society has an addiction to punishment that leads to sentences that are much too long, and we know that long sentences have an inverse effect on rehabilitation.

We also know that we cannot build our way out of an overcrowding problem. The Ministry of Justice’s forecasts say that the prison population will grow to between 94,000 and more than 114,000 in the four next years alone. It is time to stop the rot, because other services are not equipped to deal with this situation. The Probation Service is on its knees, with chronic staff shortages, excessive workloads and poor morale. Many of us will have had a briefing from the probation officers’ union Napo, which is dismayed at the mass release of 1,700 prisoners this week; it fears that they will not cope, so there will be more risk to the public and to themselves, and more mistakes will be inevitable.

Turning people out of jail earlier, without proper preparation before and after release, is a recipe for disaster. People will not get the help they need. They will reoffend, and the whole merry-go-round will go faster and faster until the parts fly off.

My final question for the Minister is this. How does he plan to address the needs of prisoners? If he does not, our Prison Service will continue on its inexorable spiral of decline until it breaks. Wrongdoing must be punished, but there are other methods of punishment as well as prison.

Prison Capacity

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Wednesday 24th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

Having somewhere to live when someone is released from prison is vital, and we are planning to continue with all the schemes that are currently in place, including the 84 nights that are scheduled for people who leave prison. One of my concerns is that recently, because capacity has been so constrained, hard-working prison and probation staff have not always been able to manage the transition from prison to the community as well as I would like to see in future.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I warmly welcome the noble Lord to his new role and to this House. His considerable experience and reputation go before him and he is highly respected as a man who lives his values. Having said that, it has to be said that he has inherited a crock, and I am afraid it is not a crock of gold.

The Minister paints a truly horrific picture of the situation now facing this country and we on this side are looking forward to working with him constructively over the next parliamentary term. In time, we can further reduce the prison population by implementing the recommendations of the Justice Select Committee and conducting a resentencing exercise for the unfortunate indeterminate sentence prisoners still stuck in a limbo of uncertainty. Will the IPP sentencing review include indeterminate sentence prisoners? I know that is perhaps a discussion for another day, but right now we can do little other than agree to the release, with suitable support and safety conditions, of certain categories of prisoners who are towards the end of their tariff to make room for other individuals who present more of a threat to society.

[Lord Timpson (Lab)]

I am well aware of the issues around indeterminate sentences for public protection. I know that matter is of great interest to noble Lords. It would not be appropriate to make changes in relation to IPP prisoners, because they are a different order of public protection risk. I am determined to make more progress on IPP prisoners. As I say, we will build on the work done by the previous Government. We worked constructively with the previous Administration on sensible changes that could be made in the safest possible way for the public. Those changes were on the licence period and the action plan, and we will crack on with that as a new Government. Any changes that we make to the regime for that type of sentence, which has rightly been abolished, must be done while balancing the public protection risk, which we would never take lightly.

Victims and Prisoners Bill

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Report stage
Tuesday 21st May 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, I am very pleased that the Government and the Labour Front Bench have improved this Bill, because it was quite a difficult one when it was first presented. However, it would be so amazing if they both accepted this last little tweak of Amendment 149A. Although it applies to very few people, this is an issue of justice and of unfairness that could be put right. I know it is very late, but that amendment is very worth while.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendment 140, which is in my name, although I support all the amendments tabled by noble colleagues in the IPP group.

I thank all the groups involved in this that have supported us. I also thank the Minister himself for the huge efforts he has made on behalf of IPP prisoners, and the Government for the immense distance they have travelled so far in repairing the damage done by this sentence on the psyches and futures of the remaining rump of unfortunate individuals left serving IPP sentences. We all want to help them progress and leave this torturous situation, but we all know that it must be done in a safe way that will not endanger the public. Amendment 140 would go a huge distance towards achieving this for those the system has damaged the most: those stuck in prison three or more years after their tariff has expired, whether or not they have been released and recalled in the meantime.

Under the current law, any prisoner who is being transferred to hospital will be entitled to the same level of aftercare as any other individual who has been in hospital under qualifying sections. This is an estimated 600 prisoners out of the almost 3,000 still in the system. Section 117 of the Mental Health Act 1983, on aftercare, provides wraparound care, which can include forensic psychiatrists working with police, probation, victim liaison officers, and local health and social care practitioners, as appropriate, under MAPPA auspices in their local areas.

For prisoners who have been sectioned, the duty means that multiagency planning starts before release and that prisoners come to their parole hearings with a package of support and care ready for them. This will enable them to live safely on the outside. It is hugely successful and throws a light on a path that would lead to many more successful releases. Over 90% of IPP releases by the Parole Board of prisoners who have had Section 117s between November 2021 and August 2023 would have had aftercare plans before release. This is double the percentage of IPPs who did not have Section 117s.

If you speak to any practitioner involved in the parole process, they will tell you that the number one problem preventing the release of people stuck in prison on this sentence is the lack of a package of support in the community to give the Parole Board confidence that they can safely be managed. With an aftercare package provided by health and social care, in consultation with probation, much more care is taken to ensure that the basics—the scaffolding on which the individual can rebuild their lives—are covered. This scaffolding may include suitable accommodation and support as needed from an allocated psychiatrist, working with police, probation, victim liaison officers, local health and social care practitioners, et cetera. Arguably, all prisoners should be entitled to this, but sadly we know that the system often lets them down.

I will give two real-life examples. Their names have been changed for obvious reasons. I am calling them John and Peter. John was sentenced when he was 15 for a minimum term of under a year, and he spent 15 years in prison. Peter was sentenced at the age of just 13. He had a DPP with a minimum of 12 months, and he spent 17 years in prison.

John had a traumatic childhood, which included abuse and being put in care. His first 10 years in prison were chaotic. Over time, it became clear that he had developed a serious mental disorder in the form of a personality disorder. In one prison, the prison psychologist suggested that he should be assessed for a transfer to hospital. He consented and was duly transferred under the Mental Health Act 1983, so he was entitled to the support afforded by Section 117. He said that

“for the first time ever I was able to go to the Parole Board with a really good and supportive release package on the table”.

It has not been all plain sailing for John since his release. He was rearrested for a breach of conditions several months later, but he knows that the support is still there to help him face the Parole Board again and to succeed when he is released. The support package will last for as long as John needs it.

Contrast this with Peter’s story. Peter initially did very well in custody and was first released when he was just 17. He has had long periods of stability, but then things broke down and he has been recalled five times. He now lives in a constant state of anxiety that he will be recalled to prison. He says that living at an endless risk of recall is “like living on eggshells”, and that his sentence has

“given me bad anxiety and paranoia—even when I am the victim I am the one who gets arrested whenever I contact the police— I fear going out and getting recalled because something might happen”.

On his latest release, Peter went to a special mental health approved premises, but was discharged from prison without his medication. After 12 weeks in a hostel, his accommodation entitlement was up and he had nowhere to go. His last recall followed a significant deterioration in his mental health and a spell of time as a voluntary patient in a mental health ward from which he was discharged without suitable accommodation and support. He said he was glad to be back in prison because at least he “couldn’t be recalled”. Because he has never been sectioned under the Mental Health Act 1983, he is not entitled to the same wraparound care as John. But why should he not be?

Victims and Prisoners Bill

Baroness Burt of Solihull Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, I have added my name to all the amendments in this group, initiated by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and so well presented by the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti.

While I have made my feelings clear on many occasions on just how egregious the treatment of all IPP prisoners has been, the situation for individuals sentenced as children has been arguably even more cruel and wrong. As I understand it, there are 85 people currently serving an IPP sentence that was handed down when they were children and some were of a very young age.

The teen years are such a formative time, and of the 85 remaining—who are now all adults—they have arguably had the worst start in life; 36 of them have never been released. What chance have they got of adjusting back into whatever might pass as a normal life? The only upside of this is that, because there are not that many of them, more time and attention can therefore be focused on fitting them for release.

According to the Prison Reform Trust, there is a window in which people typically develop the support and inner resources to desist from crime. As the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, has said, this unfortunate cohort is rapidly passing that window, which means that giving them the maximum possible support as quickly as possible is vital.

Amendment 155 would halve the qualifying period in which other statutory provisions for children become spent. Amendment 162 would give heavier support to DPPs who are unsuccessful in staying on parole or getting released at all. My worry about changing sentence planning reviews from annually to quarterly, however, is that if nothing has happened it might devalue the relevance of the review and dishearten the prisoner.

Amendment 163 would halve the time between referrals for consideration by the Parole Board to one year, which I heartily commend. The issue for me is the cost in financial and human resources, to which the Minister might want to refer. The only upside of this concentrated help is the fact that there are not many DPPs in terms of the overall cost that is being expended on IPP prisoners.

If these young people are to have a real chance, they need the help now, while their mind and their development can still be receptive to another way of living their life.

[Lord Hope of Craighead (CB)]

My Lords, I would like to add a few words to what has already been said about Amendments 162 and 163 devised by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett. The really important part of Amendment 162 is in proposed new subsection (2), which would set out in statute the aim of the convenor of these planning meetings. It states that they are taking place

“with a view to ensuring that all possible steps are taken to enable their safe release at the earliest possible time”.

Those words emphasise the purpose of the reviews and therefore enhance the care that would be taken to conduct them by the Secretary of State.

As far as Amendment 163 is concerned, the first part of it is already the existing law. It says that for

“a person serving a sentence of detention for public protection, the Secretary of State must refer his case to the Parole Board … after he has served the relevant part of his sentence”.

That is a tariff and is already standing practice. What is new is the proposal that the Secretary of State must refer a person’s case to the Parole Board,

“where there has been a previous reference of his case to the Board, no later than the period of one year beginning with the disposal of that reference”.

The emphasis in both these amendments is on the regularity of reviews. When I was Lord Justice General, I saw this working well in my visits to the Parole Board. As I mentioned earlier, there are files prepared that have to be examined in detail, but the Parole Board appointed a particular member to take on a particular case, so that each time it came up for review, the member could reinforce what was in the files by explaining his or her own view of what was taking place and, as time went on, reinforce it by previous discussions. In that way, continuity was provided to the whole process.

Each board will have its own method of dealing with it, but the structure of what is provided by these two amendments provides a basis on which the Parole Board can exercise its views with a view to achieving what is set out in proposed new subsection (2) in Amendment 162, ensuring that all possible steps are taken to ensure safe release at the earliest possible time.