Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Report stage
Wednesday 20th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to have the opportunity to return to these amendments and to thank the Minister and the Bill team, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor of Stevenage, for the very useful, albeit inconclusive, meeting that we had,

Amendment 3 is really a prelude to setting out the basis of Amendment 43, on which, depending on the response I get from the Minister, I may be tempted seriously to test the opinion of the House. Amendment 3 sets out that the relevant standards in the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, particularly as set out in Schedule 3, “Sustainable Drainage”, be part of this Bill. In her summing up when this was debated in Committee, she thought that these standards were contained not in the 2010 Act but in a different Act. I beg to disagree. I think she has tabled an amendment, which we will come to later, asking for Ofwat to have regard to climate change. If it is going to have regard to that, I firmly believe that it should have regard to other environmental standards.

The reason I would like to return to Schedule 3 and the important question of sustainable drains is that the Bill, in its current form, is seriously flawed in this one respect. While rightfully holding companies to account on aspects of finance and other responsibilities, it fails to address the fundamental issue that leads to flooding from new developments. If the Bill remains drafted, it will allow rainwater to continue entering public sewers and mix with sewage at times of excessive flooding. This sewage and rainwater will enter existing developments, causing a public health hazard with raw sewage coming into people’s homes. I believe— I know others across your Lordships’ House agree—that it is totally unacceptable to continue to have rainwater mixing with sewage in the public sewers in this way.

There is general contentment that the Government seem to have met their manifesto commitment in this Bill, but sadly they are not focusing—they are reneging —on their responsibilities as regards parts of wastewater. Without my Amendments 3 and 43, the Bill remains defective. Amendment 43 is totally benign. It simply asks what progress there will have been in six months’ time towards implementing Schedule 3 to the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, calling for an end to the automatic right to connect, and adapting sustainable drains to be built as a mandatory requirement for all new developments. In Committee, I was delighted that my noble friend Lord Blencathra from the Front Bench supported this amendment and asked the Minister to consider bringing tougher flood mitigation duties forward for water companies on Report.

These amendments, and Amendment 43 in particular, provide vital flood mitigation measures that received cross-party support during the passage of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010. I am grateful to my noble friend from the Front Bench for lending his support to this amendment yesterday, and I request that the House give it fair wind. As I say, it is not asking for implementation, which would not be in keeping with this Bill, and I know the Minister will respond to this little debate by saying that the Government are looking at a future piece of legislation that will flow from the commission, which I think all noble Lords are grateful that they are setting up.

I would like to press the Minister on one point that she raised in her response to the debate that we had on these amendments in Committee. She said:

“The issue we have is that it also impacts directly on development and developers, which is why the Government are currently working with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to assess how best to implement their ambitions on sustainable drainage, while also being mindful of the cumulative impact of the new regulatory burdens on the development sector. At this stage, I do not want to pre-empt the outcome of that process”.—[Official Report, 28/10/24; col. 1009.]


When the Minister and her colleagues sat on this side of the House, she was in favour of Schedule 3 and the immediate implementation of mandatory sustainable drains on all major new developments. I ask her in the most positive spirit: what has changed? Why now are they reneging on their duty, as a new Government with a big majority, to allow households to be free from the fear of having rainwater mixing with raw sewage and entering combined sewers with the potential of coming into their homes? I am not alone in calling for this to come into effect; both the Climate Change Committee and the National Infrastructure Commission have recommended that significant progress be made in addressing surface water flood risk, with the latter recommending that Schedule 3 be implemented.

Managing water both around and from new developments is central to reducing flood risk and the amount of water entering sewers. The Bill is also flawed in not addressing the issue of surface water run-off from highways, which we also discussed in that meeting, and I agree with the Minister and her colleague the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, that this should take place in the planning Bill coming forward. But this Bill is the right place in which to ask the Minister to report in six months’ time on what progress has been made as a consequence of the Bill towards implementing that vital measure of Schedule 3, which is an integral part of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010.

I look forward to hearing a debate from other noble Lords, but I will listen very carefully to what the Minister says, particularly what she meant by “cumulative impact”. I may well test the opinion of the House.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend Lady McIntosh of Pickering. The Minister will be aware that, both at Second Reading and in Committee, I raised matters of capacity where sewage and rainwater mix—run-off from roofs, roads or wherever. In Committee, I quoted some case law that shows that the capacity of the sewers to cope with both should already be taken into consideration. I hope that, when she responds, she will assure us that she has asked for that case law to be investigated, because it may well be helpful in this case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock]

I do not quite understand the last point of the noble Baroness. On the basis that it comes through planning, the whole point is that it then becomes the developers’ responsibility and not that of the water companies.

On the case study, I will definitely take that back to the Department. I am very happy to do that—I am sorry that I forgot to answer that question. Obviously it was picked up from the previous debate, but I will raise it and see where we are with that. I am very happy to write to the noble Baroness about what is happening, if that helps.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

I am very grateful to the Minister, but without labouring the point, the case law showed that there is sufficient legislation now for capacity to be an important key point of planning decisions. It could save an awful lot of work going down the track if that were there, but it is simply unused. If that is the case, it is simply a matter of ensuring that it is enforced or that local authorities and planning departments can use it. That could save an awful lot of time.

[Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)]

The noble Baroness makes an extremely important point. I am more than happy to pick this up, look at it and write to her on how we propose to move forward. I am so sorry: the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked another question, but I cannot remember what it was.

Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 30th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[The Duke of Wellington (CB)]

My Lords, Amendment 51 in my name has been put in this group even though it relates to a different clause. Clause 3 deals with emergency overflows and seeks to define an emergency overflow. It also includes within Clause 3 what is in effect a let-out for the water companies, in that, where an overflow occurs as a result of an electrical power failure, that is permitted. I must admit that I find that surprising. I am grateful to the Minister, who allowed me to come and discuss this point with her and her officials a few weeks ago. However, I cannot for the life of me understand how failure to have sufficient electrical power generation capacity in a sewerage works is sufficient reason to allow an overflow to occur.

I remember that, just before or during the passage of the Environment Act, there was a major overflow by Thames Water in London, and the reason given at the time was, “Oh, sorry, there’s been a power failure”. That really does not seem good enough. Nobody running a hospital would be able to plead lack of power as a reason to close down all operations under way in the hospital at that moment. It seems to me that a sewerage works is a place where there must be sufficient emergency power generation through generators in case of a power failure.

This is a simple amendment; I hope the Government will take it seriously. It simply would delete, in effect, in new Section 141G(2)(a),

“electrical power failure at sewage disposal works”

as a reason for permitting an emergency overflow. That is my argument and I hope the Minister will take it seriously.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased for the first time to be able to contribute to Committee on the Bill. I will speak to the two amendments in my name in this group, Amendments 54 and 88. The Minister will already be aware of my enthusiasm for the use of grey water and its importance in new-build domestic construction. I support my noble friend Lady Pickering in what she has just said on this group.

The Committee has already drawn attention to increasing problems of safe disposal of sewage from buildings and the challenge going forward to adequate supplies of domestic drinking water. The fact that the existing system cannot cope with either does not augur well for the Government’s planned housebuilding target, which will include mandatory planning targets set out in the National Planning Policy Framework.

The Minister will know from Second Reading that I support her endeavours in the Bill, but the two amendments in this group tabled in my name seek to mitigate what could quickly become a standoff between the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Ministry for Housing, Communities and Local Government. I urge the Minister to take some action through these two amendments to prevent this, if nothing else.

I am very grateful for the assistance and legal advice given to me on these two amendments by the lawyers at WildFish, a charity involved in the protection of all wild fish in watercourses.

Some developers argue that, because of the legal obligations on sewerage undertakers to treat wastewater, the question of sewer and sewage treatment capacity is not a material consideration in planning. There is therefore a reluctance among planning authorities to impose conditions to protect the environment from sewage pollution, partly because of the case of Barratt Homes v Dŵr Cymru 2009, where the Supreme Court confirmed that Section 106 of the Water Industry Act 1991 provided a right for householders to connect to the sewer network and that only in narrow circumstances could the water company refuse such a connection.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, I will speak to Amendments 55 and 74. I have added my name to Amendment 55 in the name of my noble friend Lady Bakewell and I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Willis of Summertown, for also adding her name in support. This amendment would require water companies to adhere to and deliver stronger environmental objectives and duties within national parks and the Broads, so as to protect waterways across national parks from sewage. The amendment would give the Secretary of State regulation-making power to extend protections to specific bodies of water, such as Lake Windermere.

Our national parks are very special places with national emotional importance, but the sad reality is that the areas that are the most important have some of the weakest environmental protections and this needs to change. There were 377 sewage releases from storm overflows within the boundaries of national parks in England and Wales in 2022, totalling 176,000 hours, equivalent to more than 7,300 days. I am confident that the Minister, like me, will find this as unacceptable as I am sure do all noble Lords present. This amendment seeks to bring forward measures that will help to correct this and return the ecological status of our national parks to a level that we can again be proud of. As we heard in the previous debate, there is not even a single river within a national park that has good ecological health.

It is not just sewage which is causing the problem. The University of York found there was also widespread toxic chemical pollution within some national parks. In many ways this is much more worrying indeed. With huge influxes of seasonal visitors and often old and not-fit-for-purpose sewerage infrastructure, during the summer months especially the systems cannot cope and we have regular sewage spills. This infrastructure needs updating. I want to thank the Minister here. She said on the previous group that she had been meeting United Utilities and that is welcome.

In addition, it is ironic that we have far lower standards for the operation of sewage works in our national parks that we do in our urban equivalents. Proposed new Section 4A(1) in Amendment 55 gives details of how the relevant undertaker must secure high ecological status, enhance wildlife and natural beauty, and reduce total phosphorous discharges into freshwaters within areas of national parks by 2028. Subsection (2) indicates what will happen if this does not happen and calls for the relevant undertaker to be put in special administration and not be eligible for further licences if it fails to demonstrate an adequate process each year and meet the targets in subsection (1). Subsection (3) gives a time limit of one year for the Secretary of State to lay a report on the undertakers’ implementation of the environmental duties in subsections (1) and (2) before Parliament. Subsection (7) of the proposed new section explains exactly what type of environment is covered by this section.

I will not repeat the remarks made about Amendment 34A in group two, but it is worth noting that Lake Windermere is a UNESCO world heritage site which has inspired Beatrix Potter, William Wordsworth and Arthur Ransom and that it contributes over £1 billion a year to the UK national economy. This site is particularly sensitive and I guess that everybody in this House wants to see improvements made to it. I hope other noble Lords can support this amendment and the Minister can support it as well. It might be that the Minister has other ways of doing these things, possibly through statutory instruments, but I look forward to her response.

Finally in this group, Amendment 74 is in my name and I am very grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Browning, for adding her name in support. This amendment aims to provide “high ecological status” to our chalk streams. To be clear, “high ecological status” is the closest wording the Table Office said was in scope for blue flag status. What I am trying to do is have a conversation with the Minister about putting forward blue flag status for our chalk streams. That is the point of the amendment.

As we have heard, England’s chalk streams are of global significance and are a source of great national pride. They are unique waterways, found particularly in the south of England and Yorkshire. They have been referred to as the “rainforests of England” for their special qualities, the diversity and range of the habitats they provide and the iconic species, from invertebrates to kingfishers, that dwell within them. I confess that I spend quite a lot of my spare time mountain-biking and quite a lot of that is done on the South Downs, so places such as the River Meon are very special to me and I am sure other noble Lords have experiences with other chalk streams.

Research undertaken by my party found that, according to Environment Agency data, in 2022 chalk streams were subject to 14,000 hours of sewage discharges. This is devastating to these very valuable but fragile ecosystems. Wessex Water was guilty of 1,013 separate sewage discharges across the west of England. The worst chalk stream sewage discharge lasted for nearly 3,000 hours in the River Till, a tributary of the Hampshire Avon. Thames Water discharged sewage into the Misbourne in Buckinghamshire for 1,206 hours last year and Southern Water’s 62 discharges into the River Meon last year lasted over 1,000 hours. The figures may have been even higher than that as a number of monitors are not working; I would argue that the true scale of the discharges into these rivers is not properly known, which is also a worry.

I am very grateful for the support for this amendment and I hope the Minister can lend some support to it from the Government. It might be that there is a possibility of further conversations or some kind of compromise around these issues. It might be that the Minister or the Government feel that blue flag status is not quite the appropriate means to help give further protection to these chalk streams. I am open to ideas. I am open to other ways that we could work collectively to try to increase protection for these very fragile systems.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to have been able to add my name to this very important amendment. I live on the Dorset/Hampshire border and chalk streams are really important in my part of the world.

We have heard from the noble Earl, Lord Russell, of the importance of these chalk streams, which have been managed in England since Roman times. There is the real danger of contamination of the water course itself from sewage and agricultural run-off, but one of the key features of a healthy chalk stream is the water flow. Not all chalk streams are particularly deep but, so long as the water flows regularly, fish can spawn and the other flora and fauna which are so important to them can survive. Once the streams slow down, for whatever reason, particularly from excessive abstraction, that immediately has an impact on all the wildlife that we associate with chalk streams. So I am very pleased to add my name to this very important amendment.

Amendment 90 in this group, which is in my name, is on the general duty to deliver measures set out in water resources management plans. I was a bit concerned whether it is in the right group, but I guess that it is—it is associated. It is all very well to legislate but unless you can enforce legislation, it seems to us legislators all a bit pointless. As far as water resources management plans are concerned, this is about tightening up the regulations to make more sense of them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

I rise to speak to Amendment 87 in this group, and I am very grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady Parminter and Lady Browning, and the noble Lord, Lord Whitty, for their support. I agree with all that has been said, in particular what the noble Lords, Lord Cameron and Lord Deben, said. We do need a step change here, rather than just trying to fix the system—although I do want to talk about fixing the system.

The water companies are completely uninterested in transparency. It echoes so much of what we talked about: who is winning in this game, nature or money? Rather too often, the money seems to win out. According to the Observer at the weekend, they have been passing pollution tests that were not even carried out. The system is so clearly not working that it seems an obvious one for the Government to reset.

Amendment 87 would require the proactive publication of both regulatory and what the water companies call “non-regulatory” or “operational” data about their sewage works and their associated discharges of sewage effluent. Specifically, it defines water companies as “public authorities” for the purposes of the Environmental Information Regulations, amends the regulations to make clear that public authorities must make the information they hold on effluent or wastewater monitoring data completely public to anybody. It amends the appeal and enforcement provisions in the 2004 regulations to allow members of the public to complain to the Information Commissioner where such info is not proactively published.

This will cut through all the delaying tactics and refusals by water companies, by ensuring that data is proactively published, so that the public and campaigners will not have to keep asking for information and be endlessly given the runaround. Water companies will be required by law to publish it up front, without anyone having to ask. I support my noble friend’s amendment that this must all be in one place and easy to find. I feel that this is complementary to Clause 3 of the Bill, which requires discharges from emergency overflows to be published accessibly and immediately, so that action can be taken.

It is important to outline a little history of the context. Despite the success of the leading Fish Legal case, which went to the European Court of Justice a few years ago, in securing a decision that water companies are “public authorities” for the purposes of the Environmental Information Regulations, over the last few years the water companies have tried many different tactics, under the Environmental Information Regulations, to try to avoid disclosing data to those requesting access that shows how poorly performing their sewage works or CSOs have been. They have been extremely successful. The ICO has, in the past, supported various water companies in their refusal to provide data to a range of campaigners, due to the long-running investigations into them by the regulators themselves. The ICO’s mind seemed to change on this after the CEO of Ofwat announced that they did not consider the investigation by Ofwat and the Environment Agency as a reason to not publish. So now we are in a weird situation where the water companies, specifically United Utilities, are currently appealing against an ICO decision that went the other way, in which the ICO decided that information, specifically about how poorly a sewage works in Cumbria was operating, should be disclosed to the public. This case is ongoing, but we have an opportunity to send a parliamentary reminder that we are in no doubt that this information should be made publicly accessible.

This has highlighted to me not only the clear lack of transparency but the real lack of willingness. Despite several years of this very public scandal, companies continue to obstruct. This is what the Bill is really about: forcing them to change where they will not. We are well past simply asking them to do this.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, I am very pleased to have added my name to the amendment that the noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, has just spoken to, and the amendment in this group tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Pickering, both of whom have outlined very clearly their concerns.

Amendment 89, in my name, is really about abstraction. I mentioned the over-abstraction in chalk streams, which is genuinely a real problem. It is claimed that the Environment Agency rarely inspects water company abstraction monitoring records.

There is also no requirement for continuous volumetric monitoring and publication of real-time or up-to-date data. It is not surprising, therefore, that there has been no effective enforcement where there have been breaches of abstraction licences. Spot-check results indicate neither the duration of the breach nor the seriousness of such breaches, either as against the licence condition or for the rivers or groundwaters from which the abstraction has occurred unlawfully.

Therefore, this amendment proposes that the Water Resources Act 1991 be amended so that all licences for abstraction held by water undertakers should include a condition that real-time abstraction volumetric data is recorded and made publicly available in as close to real time as is practicable. This is very straightforward. The Minister must have a view as to whether she thinks the Environment Agency carries out rigorous checks, and if it does not, I believe my amendment is the answer to it.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

My Lords, I first declare my interest as on the register. Since it seems to be de rigueur in the Committee tonight, I declare my wholehearted support for the controlled reintroduction of beavers into appropriate locations.

I thank the noble Earl, Lord Russell, for leading this group of amendments on improved monitoring and publication of data and I rise to speak to Amendment 48 in my name. First, I was rather impressed by the points on telemetry made by the noble Lord, Lord Cameron of Dillington. We find in Natural England that the use of modern technology can replace hundreds of people on the ground trying to carry out inspections, and this sort of technology has to be the way to proceed.

It is important that the nature of emergency discharges is collected by water companies and is made available to the public and Parliament in an easily accessible format and location, as has been said by every noble Lord tonight. The damage of pollution caused by emergency overflows has become an issue of increasing concern to the public in recent years, and they deserve more information on how water companies are performing. It is sensible to require water companies to publish the extent of emergency discharges, as this data is indicative of the strain on our water sector and will provide valuable information as to what kind of infrastructure development is necessary to prevent overflows in the future.

We support the Government’s intention in this part of the Bill, but we feel the Government can go slightly further to ensure that the monitoring data is available to the public on the water company’s website. My Amendment 48 is a modest little amendment that would deliver that change. We on these Benches feel that this relatively small amendment would do a great deal of good in ensuring that consumers can access this information easily on the website of their own provider.

A number of noble Lords have moved amendments on monitoring and reporting. We are broadly satisfied with the Government’s measures to improve monitoring and reporting in the Bill, but we are also keen to see some movement from the Government in the direction of making this information more readily accessible to the public and have taken on board many of the points raised by other noble Lords tonight.

Water (Special Measures) Bill [HL]

Baroness Browning Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 9th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, it is a great pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Lipsey, and I congratulate him on the work that he has undertaken to protect the beautiful River Wye. I declare that I am a member of the APPG on Water.

I welcome this short but focused Bill to address the water system, which we know is broken on many levels. The tests of its success will be if the measures outlined will be statutory standards rather than guidelines, the real power of regulators, and timely enforcement rather than missed targets.

Clause 1 requires regulators to be able to block payment of bonuses to executives of water companies that fail to protect the environment by allowing UK waterways to be polluted by sewage. Do those penalties include directors’ shares and dividends?

Ofwat’s Water Company Performance Report 2023-24 talks about there being a need for urgent action to drive lasting improvement within the sector, as it is disappointed that water companies have fallen

“further behind on key targets for pollution and internal sewer flooding”.

For a regulator, the choice of that word “disappointed” rather smacks of the benign schoolteacher writing an end-of-term report. I hope that the measures in this Bill will turn it into a real regulator and not just a group of disappointed people.

While we are talking of individual penalties, I ask the Minister what the Government’s position is on regulators not being stuffed with ex-water company employees. Do they have a view on this? Is it pertinent to what the Government are trying to achieve?

Clause 2, which has been mentioned already—on the pollution incident reduction plans to reduce the frequency, seriousness and causes of pollution—is particularly important for the shocking state of our rivers, from the Wye to the Thames, not forgetting those very important chalk streams. I notice here that the power of the Secretary of State, in consultation with the Environment Agency, will be subject to guidance under secondary legislation, which the Minister mentioned. The Minister will be aware that Members of both Houses have interests in particular water courses, as of course do the public. I hope that she will look again and confirm that this secondary legislation will be subject to the affirmative resolution of the House so that we have an opportunity to discuss it—not just some statutory instrument laid without proper scrutiny.

I notice that the document that appeared only late this morning—the memorandum from the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs about delegated legislation—states that, in particular in this part of the Bill:

“This power is intended to be used exceptionally, and only in circumstances where the Secretary of State considers water companies to have failed to include material relevant to the function and purpose of a Pollution Incident Reduction Plan … There is no parliamentary procedure required for giving directions under the WIA 91”—


the original Act—

“and the Department does not consider that the nature of the direction proposed would require a departure from that position”.

I have to ask the Minister to look again at that because it is important in this section of the Bill that Parliament, in both Houses, is aware of it.

Clause 3, which of course is new Chapter 5 of the Water Industry Act 1991, requires water companies to report on discharges within very narrow timeframes. That is all well and good, but I am disappointed that the Government are not also seeking, even if it is in a different Bill coming forward, to reduce the volume of wastewater entering the sewerage system in the first place.

Something which I have raised several times on the Floor of the House is the use of grey water, from rainwater run-off and domestic appliances, which adds to the volume of the sewerage system. I have asked several questions about the need for both domestic and commercial changes to building regulations; I have always been told by the Front Bench that it is too expensive. Surely, with the Government’s ambitious housebuilding programme, now is the time to incorporate it in new builds, where the need for immediate connection to the existing system may end up being in conflict with the measures in this Bill. I hope that the Minister will, if necessary, discuss this with the appropriate department with those responsibilities.

There are a few other things that I would like to raise. Will there be a review of existing licences, some of which go back many years?

When I lived in Devon, my home was subject to three feet of flooding throughout the ground floor on two occasions, eight years apart. When a house floods like that, I know to my personal cost that it is not just a matter of waiting for the water to go down. We were out of our home for six months each time. I would have liked to have heard more about the need for flood prevention in critical areas. We all know this is going to get worse due to climate change.

Have the Government anticipated that higher corporate financial penalties, as promised in the Bill, may be scapegoated in future to explain the lack of infrastructure capital investment? How can this be avoided? I hope the Government have reflected on that.

I hope to participate in Committee, when we shall of course deal with the detail. Will the Minister publish an impact assessment before Committee? Can she confirm the timetable after Royal Assent and say when she anticipates the measures in the Bill will be enacted?

Water Framework Directive

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 24th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

Yes.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

Three weeks ago, I asked my noble friend what was happening to change building regulations to reduce the volume of water needing disposal, which would thus be an advantage with things such as storm overflows. My noble friend told me that there were discussions going on, but I realise that this is a cross-cutting matter between departments, and that always makes me nervous. I wonder whether my noble friend would write to me, and put a copy in the Library, about exactly what discussions are going on and what plans there are to change building regulations to reduce the capacity of water, and with some sort of timetable that is being given to developers to make sure that it is complied with.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

This comes down to the thorny issue of nutrient neutrality. The problem that we have in this country is that most of our houses have mixed clean water and dirty water going into the same sewer. This is what is causing the problems in the sewage overflows. We have a new legal duty on water companies in England to upgrade wastewater treatment works. A new nutrient mitigation scheme established by Natural England is helping wildlife and boosting access to nature. But the cost to retrofit a separated system would be somewhere around £345 billion to £600 billion, which would be quite a considerable hit on individual households. But there has to be a plan to resolve nutrient neutrality, or the backlog of houses that are needed by people will not be able to be built—so I will certainly write to my noble friend.

Water Companies: Pollution

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am very pleased to make the noble Baroness’s day by saying that we have increased a thousandfold, from £250,000 to £250 million, the upper limit on which water companies can be fined.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

My Lords, have the Government given consideration to changing the building regulations, particularly with regard to rainwater run-off, so that the water is recycled and not taken into the system, thus reducing the volume going out of the system?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right to raise this. One of the problems is that water coming off roofs and driveways—absolutely clean water—goes into the same sewerage system. To separate foul water from clean water has been estimated at costing between £350 billion and £600 billion, which would have a dramatic effect on people’s bills. However, there is nothing to stop us trying to do this with new housing, as well as retrofitting it into existing housing, and ongoing discussions are taking place with other government departments to see if this can happen.

Agriculture Bill

Baroness Browning Excerpts

2nd reading & 2nd reading (Hansard) & 2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 10th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I very much welcome the commitment given by my noble friend in his opening remarks to the pledges made in the letter of 5 June from the two Secretaries of State about food standards, particularly in relation to food imports. It is worth remembering that, across a range of areas, the benchmark of EU standards, which we will incorporate into UK law and adhere to, is one that we have signed up to in the EU. But in addition to EU rules, several measures have been taken unilaterally by the UK Government in the past—such as the banning of sow stalls and tethers, and veal crates—which were not universally welcomed within the EU. I say to my noble friend: do not just rest on the laurels of the EU. Let us look across the piece at how we can improve and enhance our standards as we go forward, both for the domestic market and for imports. Pesticides, veterinary medicines and issues relating to zoonotic diseases all have to be monitored and need ongoing improvement

Turning to food supply, the Bill makes welcome reference to the small producer. In his opening remarks, my noble friend referred to producer organisations. These have been tried over many years: some have been very successful, and others have failed. The farming community in particular has everything to gain from adding value to food products at the farm gate, rather than leaving a long chain of people to take a slice of the profit. But my noble friend should note the very small producers—farms that produce regional, local food products with which those areas are familiar. Over the years, we have very much admired this in continental countries such as France. There is benefit in adding value at the farm gate, before the product leaves.

This is true not just for supermarket sales but for those very important farmers’ markets, farm shops and food boxes, all of which have grown in popularity in recent years. I hope we will build on that. The advantages are enormous: the food is fresh; it saves on transport costs, which helps the environment; and the people who buy the food get to talk to the very people who produce it. There is an educational element to this. I am a former cookery teacher who is appalled that cookery classes, such as we used to know them, were banned—I am afraid that that was done by a Conservative Government. Domestic science is often derided, but, my gosh, it is a very important life skill. I hope my noble friend will give attention to those who are producing all the raw ingredients that not only help economically but help the health of the nation.

I want to add a word of support for the point made by my noble friend Lord Taylor of Holbeach. As an Agriculture Minister, I introduced the first GM product in this country, way back in the 1990s. It all fell apart, as we know, for all sorts of reasons. But with the right controls I believe that there is much to be gained from looking at this science, particularly in respect of plants. We must make sure that we are not left behind because of people’s fear of the word “gene”.

Queen’s Speech

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 17th October 2019 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for her contribution to the debate on the gracious Speech today, but she will know all too well that we are being asked to participate in a charade, in which the Queen’s Speech is not a serious plan for government and in which most of these Bills will never see the light of day. It is quite clear from everything that the Prime Minister has said that he intends to call a general election at the earliest opportunity. We will then find ourselves back here, with a different Government, we hope, and certainly with a new Queen’s Speech. So, we cannot be asked to consider this proposition seriously. It is as near to an election broadcast as we are likely to see, with uncosted promises, sweeteners and posturing that do nothing to address the real economic and climate change crises that challenge this country.

Let us be honest: the crises that face us today are all of this Government’s own making—nine wasted years of failed economic policies, a divided nation and the madness of a Brexit policy that will rip up our trading relations with our closest partners, undermining our trade with 500 million consumers across 27 countries. This is the inevitable consequence of leaving the single market and the customs union, which, Mark Carney has made clear, will lead to escalating job losses and business closures. Just as inevitably, it will lead to lower food, consumer, employment and environmental standards in the push to do cheap trade deals with free-market cowboys and protectionist-in-chief Donald Trump.

Let us look at the economic legacy an incoming Government will inherit. Nine years of ruthless austerity Budgets have squeezed the life out of public services and left local government unable to fund even its statutory services. There is a crisis of low pay and stagnating wages, with workers’ real wages still lower than they were before the financial crisis. The productivity of British workers fell at the fastest pace for five years in the second quarter of 2019. A struggling construction sector faces a growing skills crisis. The Government’s botched business-rate revaluation has created a huge destabilising burden for businesses, with many high streets becoming ghost towns. And the UK’s longer-term economic outlook is darkening, as years of uncertainty have prevented businesses investing in people or capital.

As ever, the Government’s response has been too little, too late. On 4 September the Chancellor announced his spending plans for 2020-21, with departmental spending increases of 4.1%. However, the £13 billion that this plan represents is less than one-third of the £47 billion of cuts introduced by the Government since 2010. It goes nowhere towards resolving the backlog of funding in the NHS and social care, for example, which is seeing standards falling and the elderly suffering alone. No wonder it was met with a universal shrug of the shoulders when it was announced.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

I am listening very carefully to what the noble Baroness is saying but, when she goes back to 2010, does she not remember that little note left by one of her Ministers at the Treasury that said, “There’s no money left”?

[Baroness Jones of Whitchurch]

Absolutely. That was a world crisis that we were dealing with, and would have carried on dealing with if we had been given the opportunity. The Government’s response to that crisis, which was to drive down austerity for nine years, has done nothing to improve the economy, as we have seen and as I have just outlined. So I do not think we can take lessons from the current Government on how to maintain economic security.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Browning]

My Lords, I am always pleased to follow the noble Lord. I am pleased also to welcome the two maiden speeches in today’s debate. I will focus on a really quite narrow area. In some ways it follows on from what the noble Lord, Lord Rooker, said about health and safety in the workplace. My focus is on agriculture and the food chain.

I welcome the fact that we shall see an agriculture Bill, although we do not know the exact form it will take, but in reading the briefing, I see that the Government are proposing support for,

“farmers and land managers to ensure a smooth and gradual transition away from the … Common Agricultural Policy (CAP) to a system where farming efficiently and improving the environment go hand and hand”.

Of course that is to be welcomed, but I am particularly focused on the fact that it also says that the Government will champion British food,

“with a transparent and fair supply chain from farm to fork”,

and that they will also recognise producer organisations.

Many years ago, when I was an Agriculture Minister—and, I have to say, probably responsible for much of the regulation that still applies to the food sector today—one of the first things I did was to say at a conference that I thought that British food was the best, only to be told by officials that I was not allowed to say that. I carried on saying it. I notice several former Agriculture Ministers in the Chamber today, so I hope they will know where I am coming from on this.

I welcome the fact that we hear today that the Prime Minister has secured a deal. There are many steps to go, we know, but after three years that is to be welcomed. But regulation in the EU has been fraught. We have heard the myths of EU regulation as far as the food chain is concerned, and, to be honest, some of them are myths. Some of them, though, are quite deliberate ploys. I am not always sure that the general public really understand how the EU has worked, particularly when we are faced with new regulations. I remember having to defend the right of the British milk chocolate industry, of which we have many brand leaders, to continue to call its products milk chocolate when the EU tried to stop that because they did not contain a high enough percentage of cocoa solids. That was not just overregulation for the sake of it; it was down to raw competition. Sometimes, when other countries and other manufacturers saw that the UK had a lead in certain sectors, things would be brought forward which one had to defend against very robustly. It is true that there have been real problems with regulation in the food chain as far as the EU is concerned but, in the main, I believe that the EU-based regulation we currently have, which covers our whole food and production sector, is good. It protects not only the consumer but the wider interests of this country.

I am not really worried about having to sell our food products to the EU in the future because it will be like any other trade deal. If the people buying from you set the terms and conditions under which they wish to buy that product, it is a very simple commercial decision on the part of manufacturers: are you or are you not going to provide that product with that specification? It is something that goes on worldwide and has done for centuries. I think that, in practice, we will see that in the food chain manufacturers and processers will stick very closely to the rules that already exist in the EU, if only to protect the markets. There are other issues, such as taxes and tariffs, and of course the Government come into those areas as well.

However, I am very concerned about imports and the home-based market. I say this as a word of caution to my noble friends on the Front Bench. The noble Lord, Lord Rooker, talked about getting rid of lots of red tape and regulation. If we were to take that sort of slash-and-burn approach to our existing regulations in the food chain, it would not only damage the home market but would, I believe, be an open door to imports which would potentially damage not only the consumer but the safety of this country.

I hope that I am not overexaggerating this but we all know, for example, that campylobacter and salmonella in eggs and poultry is a danger—it is not good either for the industry or for the human beings who end up consuming it. There have been warnings, particularly from the British Egg Industry Council, which has expressed concern about the importation of liquid and dried eggs. Of course, we rely too on the protection of brands, of both manufacturers and those established by supermarket chains in this country, which will almost certainly want to protect their consumers. However, that leaves open the whole big industry of catering, where very often the lack of labelling and information means that people do not know what they are eating.

In making sure that that regulation is maintained, I hope my noble friends will take into account the protection from animal and plant diseases that regulation affords; animal welfare, of which we have a very high standard—it is about time the European Union got rid of its veal crates like we did; environmental damage, which can also be caused; and of course the safety of consumers’ health. Nobody wants to see products on supermarket shelves or in our restaurants which lead to a situation where there are diseases that we all know have a dangerous effect. I am thinking in particular of things such as veterinary medicines, which we may not know are in products and which are retained in animal carcasses; at the moment, we have regulations that protect the food chain from that. I look to the Front Bench to give assurances on those sorts of things. Let us not have a bonfire of regulation; it is a bonfire of vanities.

Animal Products: Labelling and Packaging

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Monday 14th May 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

In a similar vein, would my noble friend ensure, particularly post-Brexit, that animal feed is also labelled and that such labelling is shown to be as accurate as possible, to make sure that cattle feed in particular is also something the consumer can rely upon?

[Lord Gardiner of Kimble]

My Lords, I shall certainly take back what my noble friend has said. It is clear that we have some of the best food standards in the world. We are exporting much larger numbers— £22 billion in the food and drink sector—so it is vital for our reputation that all provenance of seeds and food is of the highest order.

Winter Floods

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Thursday 6th February 2014 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

The noble Lord has a habit of bowling fast constitutional balls. Of course, coastal regions right across the United Kingdom, including in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, have been affected by flooding and severe weather conditions. Responsibility for flood management is, as he suspects, devolved to the Welsh Assembly, the Scottish Parliament and the Northern Ireland Assembly. It is for those bodies and their agencies to determine how best to allocate resources to support affected areas.

[Baroness Browning (Con)]

I declare an interest as a former resident of beautiful Dawlish; the railway line from Exeter to the outskirts of Dawlish went through the constituency that I was very honoured to represent. I am therefore very familiar with the problems and quite horrified to see the size of the waves—with which, again, I am very familiar. May I reinforce to my noble friend the request of the noble Lord, Lord Faulkner, to look at alternative railway access to the far south-west? May I also urge my noble friend to encourage the Department for Transport to urgently reassess the need for more dualling of roads into the far south-west—the A30 immediately comes to mind— and to make sure that the economies of, particularly, Somerset, Devon and Cornwall are not impaired in this way if this is the sort of weather pattern we are to expect in the future?

[Lord De Mauley]

My Lords, I have got the message and will take it back to the Department for Transport.

Horsemeat and Food Fraud

Baroness Browning Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Lords Chamber

[Lord De Mauley]

Yes, my Lords. I have spoken at some length on bute, which, as I am sure noble Lords are aware, is a substance administered to horses with evidence of lameness or whatever to enable them to go about their business. The whole purpose of the passporting system is to ensure that a substance such as bute does not get into the food chain.

[Baroness Browning]

I very much welcome the Government’s recent announcement that proper cookery lessons are to be reintroduced into our schools, and I hope that there will be more home-made lasagnes rather than those that are pre-bought. However, given the fact that a lot of people rely on convenience foods and trust in brands, and if it is established that there is a problem with equine medicines in the food chain, is there an intention to look at foods such as stock, which is a concentrated product that is widely used domestically and commercially? Is any testing being carried out because of the obvious implications beyond those for beef?

[Lord De Mauley]

My noble friend makes an important point and I agree with her. I can add to my answer to the noble Lord, Lord Palmer. Phenylbutazone, known as bute, is a commonly used veterinary product and is a non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. Bute is not approved for use in food-producing animals because it is not known to be safe for human consumption. An animal that has been treated with bute is not permitted to enter the food chain.