London Underground

Baroness Blake of Leeds Excerpts

Thursday 10th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Moylan]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the opening of the factory in Goole that will manufacture new trains for the London Underground Piccadilly line by the Secretary of State for Transport, what plans they have to provide further investment in London Underground.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The Government welcome Siemens’s investment in Goole, creating a rail facility that will support up to 700 jobs and many more in the supply chain. This has been possible thanks to government funding. In London, transport is devolved to the Mayor of London and Transport for London. It is for them to make investment decisions, and the Government continue to engage with them to understand their capital funding needs. Any further government investment will be considered through the spending review.

[Lord Moylan (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Government on making progress with this project, which started under the former mayor, Boris Johnson. It is the case that a full modernisation and upgrade of the Piccadilly line would improve capacity by 60%, if it included modernising the antiquated signalling. These trains contribute only a sixth of that. Does the Minister agree that this shows that you very often get better returns from investing in and improving existing assets than from investing in something new? Are the Government willing to review and publish criteria for rail investment that prioritise the investment that contributes most to economic growth?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his supplementary question. As he is well aware, discussions are ongoing with Transport for London and all the regional authorities around the country about their long-term funding needs. This will be subject to the spending review, and we very much look forward to hearing the outcomes of that. I will of course be more than happy to continue the fruitful conversations with the noble Lord opposite.

[Baroness Pidgeon (LD)]

My Lords, although this announcement is welcome for the Piccadilly line, the Bakerloo line has the oldest trains. What discussions have the Government had with Transport for London, the GLA and the boroughs about new rolling stock and extending the Bakerloo line to Lewisham?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the noble Baroness for what I think is her first question in this House. Her experience in the London Assembly will be very welcome in future debates. The Bakerloo line, the Central line and the Waterloo & City line are all matters under consideration and discussion with the mayor, and we look forward to the outcome of those discussions.

[Lord Young of Cookham (Con)]

My Lords, Transport for London has overall responsibility for the buses in London, but they are owned and run by private operators, which do a good job, so why have the Government abandoned that model for the railways, where private operators such as Chiltern, which runs a first-class service from London to Birmingham, are now to be banned under proposed legislation?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I understand the noble Lord’s comments; they will be subject to further discussion when the main rail Bill comes forward. I note his comments and I am sure we will have the opportunity to discuss this more. We know that there are significant failings on our railways and that action has to be taken. We cannot continue with the failures that we have at present.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, with no disrespect to London, is my noble friend the Minister aware of a feeling in the north of England and in Scotland that London gets a disproportionate amount of spending, particularly in transport? Regarding what the Opposition Front Bench says about economic growth, there would be greater benefit for economic growth if more money was spent in the north of England and in Scotland and Wales.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

As a founder member of Transport for the North, I can only agree with my noble friend’s pertinent comments. I welcome the fact that significant discussions are happening with the regional mayors and that we have on the table a five-year £5.7 billion investment to improve transport networks across the regions. However, we all recognise the contribution of London to the economy of the whole country, and we want to make sure that investment in the regions complements the success in London and spreads wealth and prosperity around all the regions.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

Does the Minister accept that expenditure on railways in Wales has been quite significant recently but is still short of what is needed? There is a feeling that the formula for distribution of resources does not adequately respond to the needs of the railway system in Wales. Will she look at this and discuss it with her colleagues in Cardiff?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

As someone who was diverted on a journey from Cornwall to Leeds via Newport, I understand where the noble Lord is coming from. Of course, discussions with the devolved nations are absolutely central to our overall ambition for growth across all the regions and nations in contributing to the economy of the whole country.

[Lord Kirkhope of Harrogate (Con)]

My Lords, in view of the success of the Elizabeth line in London, will the Government now commit to supporting Crossrail 2?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

The noble Lord is well aware that it would be above my pay grade to make commitments that will be subject to future discussions. We obviously have the Budget coming up and the spending review, and I look forward to those discussions.

[Baroness Winterton of Doncaster (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Minister, as a great advocate for Yorkshire and the Humber, will join me in advocating for the many opportunities that there are in our region for train manufacture and repair, such as in Doncaster in South Yorkshire, which has a long history in that respect.

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank my noble friend for her comments. I remember fondly our many discussions about achieving more investment into Yorkshire and the Humber. The truth is that our economy is grossly imbalanced. The potential and talent that exist within those regions is immense. This is a very important statement of intent to make sure that investment and jobs can be spread around the country, and I welcome it. I particularly welcome any discussions that we have in the future about Doncaster.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister was understandably cautious in her response about Crossrail 2. Can she at least assure the House that the land for it has been safeguarded for future delivery, so that it remains a realistic option?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I do not have the precise answer to the noble Baroness’s question. We can make sure that she receives that answer, but I know that discussions are ongoing. I am confident that nothing will have been done to undermine those conversations.

[Lord Bird (CB)]

My Lords, is it possible to also take into account that when you open up the Elizabeth line, you then open up the estate agents and get the spreading of gentrification and of poverty? Can we not do something like what was done in the inter-war years, when some of the cheapest housing went with the railways? Is there a way of putting the thinking together, rather than just treating it as transport?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

I thank the noble Lord for his ongoing contributions to this House on poverty and people’s needs. It is absolutely imperative that these schemes benefit all the population and offer opportunities. We know that investing in rail lines brings real investment to different areas. We have seen that across London and across the country. I am sure that his concerns will be paramount in the decisions that are taken going forward.

[Lord Paddick (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, in support of the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, what assessment have the Government made of the cause of London Underground’s unreliability, and therefore where investment can best be made?

[Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)]

These discussions happen regularly between the Mayor of London and the Government. Of course, we have only recently come into government and I am sure those discussions will be fruitful. We know that, as with so much of our infrastructure, we are dependent on systems that were brought in decades ago. Having been a leader in this field, we are, I am afraid, subject to the fact that decay is inherent. That is right at the centre of our discussions and I look forward to taking them forward.