Schools and Colleges: Special Educational Needs

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 15th April 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I would say two things to the noble Lord. First, we do not need a diagnosis for a child to be able to offer them support; it is important that a child gets support as quickly as possible. Secondly, our improvement plan is exactly the strategic plan that the noble Lord refers to.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that provision for special educational needs in our country would be greatly damaged by Labour’s proposed education tax? The party says it would exempt from the VAT charge those in independent schools with education, health and care plans, but there are some 100,000 in independent schools with special educational needs who lack such plans. How on earth would the state sector cope with the large number of special needs students in independent schools who would be forced to leave them, with grave damage to their education, by Labour’s education tax? I declare my interest as president of the Independent Schools Association.

Education: 11 to 16 Year-olds

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 8th February 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to improve the education system for 11 to 16 year-olds.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, we are raising standards and increasing the number of pupils in high-performing schools. Since 2010, we have reformed the curriculum and the organisational structure of our schools. For example, the international PIRL study of 2021 showed that our nine and 10 year-olds are the best readers in the western world, ranking fourth out of 43 comparable countries. However, we want to go further, not just for 11 to 16 year-olds but from early years through to 18 and beyond.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Do the Government agree that the report of your Lordships’ Education for 11-16 Year Olds Committee requires careful study by all political parties in an election year, showing as it does how an overloaded curriculum and an unduly heavy exam burden can be reduced and how declining opportunities for technical and creative subjects can be reversed? Are not such reforms essential for the future of our country?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely agree with my noble friend that the committee’s report requires careful study and the Government will shortly respond formally. I cannot agree with him, however, about an overloaded curriculum or exam burden. Exams remain the fairest way that we know of assessing a student’s knowledge. The curriculum is critical for ensuring social justice in this country and making sure that disadvantaged children get the same opportunities as advantaged ones. Our reforms to T-levels underline our commitment to technical education.

Home and Online Schooling

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 19th December 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I do not want to say that every single child has a named place, as children can move around and there can be a time lag, but obviously it is the right of every child in this country to have a named place. On enforcement, the noble Lord understands very well that there is a balance to be struck. We need first to understand why the child is not in school and aim to address that; then, if enforcement is appropriate, that should be followed through.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, the introduction of registers, to which the noble Lord, Lord Storey, and others have referred, is accepted universally to be hugely urgent. Can we not have government legislation rather than waiting for a Private Member’s Bill?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend will be aware that government legislation was not in the King’s Speech, but the Government remain committed to introducing statutory local authority registers for children not in school as well as a duty for local authorities to provide support to home-educating families.

Jobs Market: Graduates

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 27th November 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am always slightly baffled by this line of questioning, because when I look at the performance of our creative industries and the performing arts, I see that they are resoundingly successful, both domestically and globally. I appreciate that there are skills pressures in those areas, but they are ones that many organisations are overcoming.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, following the question of the noble Lord, Lord Storey, should not those with science degrees who have not got jobs be strongly encouraged to train to help fill the many physics vacancies which are causing so much worry in the education system?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not aware of the detail as to whether there is a mismatch between those with science degrees, in particular physics degrees, and vacancies. My understanding is that the opportunities for those with STEM degrees are significantly higher at higher professional levels than for those without.

Schools: Catering Facilities and RAAC

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 23rd October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

Of the 214 schools the noble Earl referred to, 202 are providing full-time face-to-face education and 12 are in hybrid arrangements. In all cases, we work with the school to make sure it can offer pupils, particularly those eligible for free school meals, a meal. Not all of them will be having a hot meal—in some cases, they are having packed lunches as a temporary measure—but the critical thing is that children are back in face-to-face education.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My noble friend referred to the additional funding the Government were providing. Could she give the House an indication of the extent of that and whether further increases are contemplated?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot give the House an exact figure today because we are working through every school’s exact needs with them, but I would obviously be delighted to report back to the House when we have greater clarity on that. All I can say is that, whether it is revenue funding—which might be for staff, IT equipment or renting local facilities—or capital funding, the Government will pay for it.

Schools: Music, Art, Craft and Dance

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government would not disagree with anything the noble Baroness said on the importance of arts and other wider curriculum subjects. She will be aware that we published our new music education plan in June 2022. We will be publishing the cultural education plan in the coming months.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, should we not note and commend the existence of nearly 1,700 partnership schemes through which state and independent schools are working together to develop the talents of their pupils in music and art subjects? Will the Government give vigorous support to the further increase and expansion of these valuable partnership schemes?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government have been very supportive of partnerships between the independent sector and state-funded schools. I absolutely recognise the important work done by the 1,700 schemes and I hope we see many more in future.

Unregistered Schools

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 5th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I really hope that I did not give the House any impression of complacency. There is no complacency where there are serious safeguarding concerns. There have been more than 1,000 investigations by Ofsted of different out-of-school settings and, of those, 122 were offering a religious education, but there were also a number of other settings; 146 suspected illegal settings were found, 129 of those were closed or otherwise changed their operations, and we completed seven prosecutions.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, is it not possible to tackle this problem through regulations under existing legislation rather than having to wait to find the time for fresh primary legislation?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My understanding is that we would need primary legislation to address the specific instance in which schools are offering a purely religious education.

Children: Bereavement Support in Schools

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am sorry to hear of the noble Lord’s nephews’ personal experience of this. Of course, many of us in this House have been touched in different ways by the issues raised by the noble Baroness’s Question. The Government are doing many of the things the noble Lord points to. I mentioned training; every state school is being offered a grant, as are colleges, to train a senior mental health lead so that we have an effective response to these issues. Of course, education staff are not mental health staff in general, and nor are they bereavement or trauma specialists, but they are very well placed to observe the behaviour of children day to day and respond to that.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Are the improvements to training to which my noble friend referred being overseen by officials at the highest level, with just the right kind of approach to these deeply sensitive and important matters?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to share with my noble friend in a letter more detail of the training, but it is something the department takes extremely seriously.

Initial Teacher Training Providers

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 5th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I cannot prejudge, but it is only a few weeks away that we will be able to discuss the results of the review. Clearly the Government initiated the review because they take seriously issues for children with special educational needs and disabilities.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

To what do the Government attribute their inability to meet teacher training targets? Could school-based training play a larger role?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend asks an important question. There is no single reason why the recruitment market is so challenging, but clearly there is a very competitive labour market. Historically, teaching has not offered the same flexibility that is now offered post-pandemic for many graduate jobs. School-based teacher training will play an extremely important part and we continue to promote the role of a teacher, with its incredibly important contribution to our children and our economy, as hard as we can.

Education System

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 30th November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to improve the education system.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, our reforms over the last 12 years are reflected in our highest ever scores in international tests in primary maths and reading, which are the building blocks for attainment. We have set out our ambitious plans for reform of education in the schools White Paper, the Skills for Jobs White Paper and the Skills and Post-16 Education Act, and we will publish a full response to the SEND and AP Green Paper early in the new year.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, I remind noble Lords of the important report published by the Times Education Commission in June, which has attracted widespread support—not least in this House, as a debate last month showed. Should we not continue to bear in mind the powerful case the commission makes for the introduction of a British baccalaureate offering broader vocational and academic qualifications at the age of 18, with parity of funding for both routes? Will the Government now put such bold educational reform at the centre of their strategy, drawing on the ideas in this landmark report?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government very much welcomed the report. Our strategy is ambitious in all these areas. My noble friend will be aware that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has challenged the department to consider how we can go further to ensure that every young person receives the benefits of a broad and ambitious education, so that every child has

“the best chance in life”

and can prepare

“to enter … a rapidly changing world.”

Schools: Resources

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 2nd November 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

As ever, the noble Lord raises an important point. Obviously, we will be able to say more about that in our responses to a number of the reviews into this area towards the end of the year. He will also be aware that we have raised funding for high needs by £1 billion to £9.1 billion. We remain very committed to that area.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Will my noble friend ask the Treasury to bear in mind that, since the Second World War, the proportion of national wealth devoted to education has risen by a comparatively small amount—infinitely less than the amount devoted to the NHS, for example? May I also ask my noble friend whether there is any substance in the recent reports that the Government are, at long last, considering serious reform of the education system, including the introduction of the British baccalaureate?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend is right on the share of national wealth. On the British baccalaureate, the department is obviously considering the remarks made by the Prime Minister and we will be reverting in due course.

Children in Care

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 12th October 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises a very important point, and she will be aware that, sadly, some of those figures are mirrored during a child in care’s educational experience. We are working very hard with virtual school heads to support children in the care system throughout their education, and we have support for them beyond. The noble Baroness will be aware that over half of these children have a SEND diagnosis, which also has an impact, obviously, on higher education.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

What support are the Government giving to charities like the Royal National Children’s SpringBoard Foundation in their efforts to secure places in both state and independent boarding schools for looked-after children who would benefit from such places? Is it not the case that these places cost less than local authority childcare and greatly enhance the academic prospects of the pupils concerned?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The department is grateful for the work that the Royal National Children’s SpringBoard Foundation does and works closely with it. My noble friend makes a good point. A child in care obviously faces a wide range of challenges starting from their early childhood, as the noble Lord, Lord Laming, pointed out. Therefore, the role of the local authority in supporting children in all those aspects is critical.

Schools Bill [HL]

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Committee stage
Wednesday 22nd June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

I want to give some background, if I may. At the general election of February 1974 the Labour manifesto declared:

“All forms of tax-relief and charitable status for public schools will be withdrawn.”


With some redrafting, “private schools” being substituted for “public schools” for example, this remained the Labour Party’s position during the rest of the 1970s and throughout the 1980s. At the 1992 election, the threat to charitable status disappeared, 30 years later to suddenly come back now, a weary ghost from the past.

What has happened during the last 30 years? Something significant has occurred: schools in the two sectors of education have moved ever closer together. The credit for this, of course, belongs to the schools themselves. They were drawn together by a recognition of the mutual benefits of partnership in so many different areas—in teaching, particularly in specialist subjects, music, drama and sport. Today this large programme of joint work is underpinned by a memorandum of understanding between the Independent Schools Council and the Government. Details are available on the council’s Schools Together website. Extensive though the programme is, there is more to be done. The best thing that everyone who has the interests of education at heart can do is to press independent and state schools to do more together. Noble Lords opposite should perhaps visit some independent schools to see what partnership work they are carrying out with state sector colleagues—that is the word they use, “colleagues”.

When I was at the Independent Schools Council, years ago, I found it quite difficult to interest the Conservative Party in any of this; Tony Blair’s Government was a different matter. Education Ministers, including Charles Clarke and David Miliband, came to the council’s offices for discussions. An official independent/state schools partnership scheme was set up to encourage progress, backed by modest funding from the Department for Education. In 2000, the then Schools Minister wrote that there had been “a huge cultural change”. In January 2001, she wrote: “There are no plans to legislate to remove charitable status from independent schools.” The same Minister got independent schools seats in the General Teaching Council and introduced special fast-track arrangements to help teachers in independent schools get QTS. She referred to them earlier in these debates. Always listen carefully to everything the noble Baroness, Lady Morris of Yardley, says in this House. I am sorry she is not in her place at the moment.

For years, independent schools have used the benefits of their charitable status, and more besides, to give help with fees. Back in 2001, I used to say that for every pound of benefit received, they provided £2.30 in help with fees. What would be the effect of overturning a law that has stood for over 400 years by confiscating the schools’ charitable status? Fees would rise, bursaries would fall, and schools would become more socially exclusive. I think the policy embodied in this amendment should go back to the Labour Party’s archives.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My Lords, that was a very interesting and wide-ranging debate on a number of important issues, which I will try and cover in my remarks. I turn first to Amendment 146A from my noble friend Lord Lucas, which would exempt settings that are classified as being a family from regulation under the Education and Skills Act 2008. I can assure my noble friend that the Government already, and will continue to, consider private arrangements where parents home educate their own children only as exempt.

Turning to Amendment 146B from the noble Lord, Lord Knight: we consulted in 2020 on defining full-time provision as being 18 or more hours per week. However, we concluded that this approach would encourage gaming of the system, allowing settings to opt out of regulation by operating just short of the threshold. We heard powerfully from the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, about how there are settings determined to do just that. So, guidance will be produced to help settings to understand where the registration requirements apply.

Amendments 147 and 149 from the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, and the noble Lord, Lord Storey, seek to register part-time provision and other unregistered provision where local authorities place children. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, also highlighted some of the cultural sensitivities that arise in addressing some of these settings. Unregistered alternative provision, as the noble Lord knows, can provide a valuable hook back into learning for children who have complex needs or require bespoke packages. Its use, though, as the noble Lord knows extremely well, requires extremely careful planning and oversight. We absolutely agree on the need to act to address poor commissioning practice, and I know my officials would be very keen to meet with the noble Lord if he would be agreeable to discuss this further. As we set out in the recent special educational needs and alternative provision Green Paper, we are absolutely committed to strengthening protections for children in unregistered alternative provision, and we will be issuing a call for evidence before the summer on its use. I know the noble Lord will contribute to that.

I turn to the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher. Regulating part-time settings would address the risk that currently unregistered full-time provision is split into separate settings. I know this is also a concern of the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn. However, most part-time provision does serve a legitimate purpose, and this risks interrupting the support and education that those settings provide, where it is provided legitimately. We believe that automatically applying the regulatory regime for independent schools to therapeutic and part-time settings would be inappropriate and likely to introduce unnecessary burdens. However, we will look at this again in the light of the call for evidence.

On Amendment 152 from the noble Baroness, Lady Meacher, Clause 63 introduces, as she described, new search powers. The powers as drafted aim to balance the need to enable Ofsted to search effectively with the safeguarding of civil liberties. This amendment would risk disrupting that balance. I know that the noble Baroness’s concern is that one would lose the element of surprise if inspectors went to an address and then had to go away and get a warrant, but requiring warrants before people’s homes are searched, particularly where consent is not given to enter the property, is a proportionate safeguard.

British Baccalaureate

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 21st June 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the main recommendation of The Times Education Commission, published on 15 June, which calls for the introduction of a British Baccalaureate.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Times Education Commission and the Members of this House who have contributed to it for their insight and ideas. Over the last 10 years, the Government have transformed the quality of academic and technical qualifications, ensuring that they support all young people to achieve their full potential. That is why, with the further reforms currently in train, we have no plans to introduce a new British baccalaureate at age 18.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, have the Government noted the chorus of praise that greeted this report and, in particular, its recommendation for a British baccalaureate uniting academic and vocational study? Do the Government agree with the president of the Royal Society, who has said that:

“Given the breadth of support for the commission’s report, it is surely time for a cross-party approach to implementing a genuine reset of education”?


Will the Government now rise to this challenge, surely one of the most urgent of our time, which the current Schools Bill, to which my noble friend referred, seems to rather evade?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We think we have led, since 2010, a major reset of education in this country, with relentless focus on quality, clarity of purpose and good progression outcomes, and I commend to my noble friend the schools White Paper, which covers both our legislative and non-legislative actions.

Schools: Creative Subjects and the English Baccalaureate

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 29th March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her question and her kind remarks but I just cannot accept what she suggests. As she points out, we have thriving cultural and creative industries in this country. We have enough teachers entering initial teacher training for art and design and drama, well above our recruitment targets. We are committing more funding in T-levels, in media, broadcast and production, and in craft and design, so I think we are building the platform for our creative industries and our children to thrive.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, are the Government not deeply concerned that their own official data shows that the number of hours of music taught in years 7 to 13 has fallen sharply in the last 12 years? In view of this and of comments of the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, and others, is it not all the more important that independent schools work closely with their maintained sector colleagues to increase still further the 655 music partnership schemes from which students in both sectors benefit so greatly?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

We very much welcome the partnerships from the independent sector in music and many other areas, and my noble friend is right to highlight them. However, we also have a responsibility and an ambition to make sure that our children have a strong music education, which is why we will be publishing our updated national plan shortly.

National Tutoring Programme

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the progress of the National Tutoring Programme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, more than 300,000 tutoring courses began last term, nearing the total figure for the whole of the previous academic year. We remain confident that the National Tutoring Programme is on track to deliver the ambitious target of 2 million courses this academic year. We are particularly pleased with the uptake of the school-led part of the programme, and we are working closely with Randstad to address the challenges in the tuition partner and academic mentor elements.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, has something not gone wrong with this immensely important programme? Is it not attracting criticism from experts, many of whom regard it as unduly bureaucratic and insufficiently resourced? Why have the Government not done more to involve independent schools? They want to play their part in this programme, in the spirit of the partnership between the two sectors of education which we all want to encourage. I declare my interest as president of the Independent Schools Association.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend makes a fair point about ensuring that the programme is as unbureaucratic as possible. I know that colleagues are working very closely with Randstad to try to simplify elements of the programme, and that work is happening at pace. I am also aware that a number of partnerships already exist between the independent sector and state-funded schools. We have very much followed the advice we were given by state-funded schools about structuring the programme.

Higher Education: T-Levels

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I understand the noble Baroness’s concern. Of course we want to make sure that young people in this country have the range of opportunities that they deserve, and that the industries and employers get the range of skills they need to be able to deliver. The Wolf review and the Sainsbury review were clear that things needed to change in terms of technical and vocational qualifications, and we are addressing those recommendations.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Will my noble friend give the House a little more information about what the Government are doing to try to secure opportunities among employers, in rural areas in particular, to which my noble friend Lord Lingfield referred?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I will try to answer that question twice. I can only reiterate what I said to the noble Lord, Lord Storey; namely, that local colleges will choose the courses most appropriate in their communities and work with employers to deliver those experiences.

Capita: Turing Scheme Contract

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 27th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

No, I tried to set out at the beginning how the decision was taken but I can give the noble Baroness more detail. The criteria for appointing the new provider were based 70% on quality and 30% on cost. Within that 70%, 10% was in relation to social value and Capita came out as the stronger provider on both counts.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My noble friend touched on the extent to which disadvantaged pupils are benefiting from the scheme. Are there any further details that she can give the House?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his question. As I mentioned, 48% of applications have come from students from disadvantaged backgrounds. We have made it a great focus of the scheme and its promotion geographically has tried to reach communities that have not previously participated as strongly in these kinds of international exchanges. We are making sure that the nature of the placements and the financial model to support them particularly encourage disadvantaged students.

Education: Return in January

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 6th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am not sure, with respect, that the question asked by the noble Baroness is the right question. We had 350,000 CO₂ monitors in schools last term. They are portable and are moved around multiple classrooms, staff rooms, lavatories—all over the school. From those we have readings showing where there is an elevated level of CO₂. Those spaces, which amount to about 8,000, are where we are putting in the ventilators. If the noble Baroness does not believe the Government, she might look at Teacher Tapp, which came up with the same figure.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My noble friend did not reply to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Watson, about the comments from the head of Ofqual, who seems to think that teachers of music should be redeployed to teach other subjects. Surely, we need more music in our schools, not less.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

One can never have enough music in one’s life, but the point we are trying to make is that we are in a relatively brief—hopefully—but intense and challenging period for schools. We trust teachers and head teachers to make the right judgments about how to use their resources. If that involves some flexibility in the curriculum or combining two class groups if a teacher is off sick, then we trust them to do that intelligently, well and in our children’s interests.

Children and Young People in Care: Accommodation

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 16th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for the unique perspective and experience that he brings to this question. He is right, and that is why, together with the Department for Levelling Up, the Department for Education published guidance last year to make sure there are common standards for supported accommodation for young people aged 18 and over. That is an important basis, as the noble Lord understands well, but we are committed to providing additional support also.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Do the Government remain committed to helping those children in care who would benefit from a boarding education to obtain places in our excellent state and independent boarding schools, through their boarding school partnerships unit at the DfE? Is it not clear that children in care suited to a boarding education obtain good results in our national examinations? Are the Government supporting charities, such as the Royal National Children’s SpringBoard Foundation, which are working with boarding schools and local authorities to increase the number of places for children in care, mindful always that many children will not benefit from or be suited to a boarding school education?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government recognise the opportunity offered by both the state boarding and the independent sector to provide good outcomes for children in care. I am extremely pleased to report to my noble friend that the first cohort of 28 children commenced boarding placements this September as a result of the Royal National Children’s SpringBoard Foundation’s work on creating a national network of schools.

Children and Families Act 2014: Education, Health and Care Plans

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend’s predecessor said on 4 March last year that the special educational needs and disabilities review was

“an absolute priority for the Government.”—[Official Report, 4/3/20; col. 694.]

We heard yesterday that the Government have some difficulty in defining the word “priority” with any precision. Why, apart from Covid, has this review, which began in 2019, taken so long?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I understand my noble friend’s diplomatically put question. He is right to raise the issue of Covid, but he will also know that this is an incredibly complex area. We have set up a steering group that includes families, schools, local authorities and other independent organisations. We are committed to the deadline, which has now been announced, of publishing the Green Paper in the first quarter of next year.

Choirs: Restrictions

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 30th June 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I absolutely recognise the right reverend Prelate’s final remarks about singing being integral to worship. We continue to be led by the science and the experts, and to follow the public health advice. As soon as that changes, we will of course update the guidance.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, the Chelmsford Singers, a flourishing group not far from Lexden in Essex, would like to know why the current guidance with its totally unexpected restrictions, promised by the Government on 27 April

“in advance of step 3”,

was in fact published after step 3, causing them and so many choirs throughout the country to cancel their first rehearsals for over a year at short notice and, in some cases, with severe financial penalties.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I can only apologise to my noble friend and the choir in Chelmsford for the disruption to their plans. As my noble friend is aware, guidance is now available on the GOV.UK website. It will be updated in time for step 4. When it is updated, it will be clear, practical and simply set out.

BBC: Dyson Report

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 25th May 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

My noble friend is right to question the culture of the BBC. We welcome the fact that the new chair and director-general are doing the same, as my noble friend says, in relation not just to some of the serious failings we have heard about in the Chamber today and in the Dyson report but to the day-to-day defensiveness in its dealings, which my noble friend referred to and which was also referenced in the letter from Ofcom.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and answered.

Social Capital

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 25th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I start by saying that it is an enormous honour to be the Minister for Loneliness. My inbox on loneliness is fuller than on any other subject that I am responsible for, and it is something that absolutely touches every one of us. Our strategy will continue predominantly along the same lines; namely, talking about loneliness and the stigma, and making sure that funding goes to organisations that connect people. During the pandemic we have brought together a group of around 70 organisations in our tackling loneliness network that are advising us on particular themes in relation to young people, digital, place and older people.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Gambling Legislation

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government absolutely understand that different addictions are interrelated and interconnected. The Department of Health is leading on a cross-issue addiction strategy.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed.

Public Service Broadcasting Online

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for his question. Obviously, all members of the panel are expected to operate in an independent capacity. Their role is in relation t advising the Government on some of the complex policy issues, with which the noble Lord is very familiar.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we will now move to the next Oral Question.

National Trust Acts

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 3rd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review the National Trust Acts.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Baroness Barran) (Con)]

My Lords, the National Trust is independent of the Government. Its activities are overseen by its board, the Charity Commission is the regulator and the scope of its work is set out in legislation. While it would be possible for the Government to review the National Trust Acts, we do not believe that it would be a proportionate approach at this time. In the first instance, the trust should be accountable for its activities to the Charity Commission as the trust’s regulator.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, the trust’s director of volunteering recently declared:

“At the National Trust we have a duty to play a part in creating a fairer, more equitable society”.


Is that compatible with the statutes under which the trust operates? Was it not an act of folly for the trust to rush out a tendentious report on slavery and colonialism —insulting the memory of Sir Winston Churchill in the process—in order to demonstrate its good will to a movement that is interested not in securing a deeper, more accurate understanding of colonialism and the past, but only in advancing an extremist political agenda in the present? Unless it changes course, is there not a danger that this important institution, admired by so many for so long, will forfeit the nation’s trust?

Historic Statues

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 19th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The noble Baroness raises important points, but I feel that they are for Parliament to decide rather than the department.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

My Lords, I endorse the view that historical understanding is best assisted by the provision of full and unbiased information about those commemorated in statues, rather than by the removal or knocking down of these memorials. As regards Sir Robert Peel, who was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, should we not note that he was a life-long opponent of slavery and the slave trade and sent the British Navy to the coast of west Africa to help suppress it?

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to note that and to note that all of us as human beings are complicated, and our history reflects that complexity.

Covid-19: Regional Theatres

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 28th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

I am happy to echo the noble Baroness’s recognition of the important work that many local theatres and other cultural organisations have done during the pandemic. There has been extensive business support, which has been covered frequently in this House, but earlier this year the Government also announced a major £750 million package for those which are charities and social enterprises.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. We now come to the second Oral Question.

Television Licences

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Monday 6th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

The noble Lord is right to highlight the sacrifices made by the over-75s, but we are all aware that sacrifices have been made in many age groups. It is critical that we are clear that the BBC remains operationally independent of government.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

Lord Caine. No? Then I call Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury.

[Baroness Bonham-Carter of Yarnbury (LD) [V]]

I am sure that the Minister agrees that the BBC has proved its gold-dust weight during this crisis of the Covid pandemic and lockdown, providing a reliable source of national and local news for all, an essential aid to those home-schooling, and solace and entertainment for the lonely and elderly. In which case, why do the Government not take back responsibility for the licence fee concession for the over-75s, introduced by a Labour Government in which the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, served, as something to be paid for by the Government, not by the licence fee payer, and which the BBC was, frankly, forced to take on? Does she not agree that not doing so means that the BBC will inevitably have to cut back on the essential services I have referred to?

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Barran]

I am slightly perplexed by the noble Lord’s question, because I do not think that the Government see the licence fee as a bran tub at all. As I have said in answer to almost every question today, the Government absolutely respect the editorial and operational independence of the BBC.

[The Deputy Speaker]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Covid-19: Women’s Sport

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 30th June 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

Particularly in relation to Covid, we have made a generous funding package available. More broadly, we are working with the governing bodies of all sports to make sure that resources are committed to the women’s game and that the positive momentum we have seen in recent years is continued.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Thursday 20th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I do not think my personal view on this is relevant. I understand the inquiry is being carried out strictly in accordance with the legislation that allows that to happen.

The Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse, as your Lordships know, was set up by the Government in March 2015 to consider the extent to which state and non-state institutions have failed in their duty to protect children from sexual abuse and exploitation, and to make recommendations to protect children from such abuse in future. As a statutory inquiry, it is underpinned by the Inquiries Act 2005 and has been given the powers it needs to expose the ways in which institutions failed in their duties to provide safe spaces for children and to get to the truth. As many noble Lords have noted, shining a light on these wrongdoings is of paramount importance, matched by the need to ensure that these failings are addressed and mitigated so that children are better safeguarded in future.

Noble Lords well know that the inquiry is independent of the Government, and rightly so. This inquiry is about people who suffered sexual abuse and exploitation as children because of the failure of state and non-state institutions and who for years have never found justice—people who believe that the state failed to listen to them in the past. That is why it is absolutely crucial that this inquiry is, and is seen to be, completely independent.

Under the Inquiries Act, the then Home Secretary agreed the terms of reference that set out the roles and responsibilities of the inquiry, and it is for the chair and panel to decide what the inquiry investigates and how. It is therefore not appropriate for me to use this debate to comment on the investigations of the inquiry, or to be seen to influence how the inquiry has interpreted its terms of reference. However, I can use this opportunity to remind noble Lords of the progress that the inquiry, chaired by Professor Alexis Jay, has been making in getting to the truth for victims and survivors.

The inquiry has confirmed 13 strands of investigation and has set out a timetable of public hearings that takes it up to February 2020. It has rolled out its Truth Project, providing victims and survivors with the opportunity to tell the inquiry what has happened to them. The inquiry has said that almost 2,000 accounts of child sexual abuse have been shared with its Truth Project so far. Over 200 individual victims and survivors are complainant core participants in the inquiry, as well as a number of other survivor groups and institutions.

In April 2018, the inquiry published an interim report in which it confirmed that it expected to make substantial progress by 2020. The inquiry also made a series of wide-ranging recommendations for change. Yesterday, after careful consideration, the Government published their response to the interim report. I am pleased to say we will take forward the great majority of the inquiry’s recommendations, and I am particularly pleased to note that the Government will establish a scheme to ensure that former child migrants receive a payment as soon as possible in recognition of the fundamentally flawed nature of the historic child migration policy.

The noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, raised concerns about whether it is too easy for those alleging abuse to receive compensation from the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme. The inquiry is looking at the issue of compensation in some detail—although I fear the noble Lord may not be entirely pleased. The interim report rather highlighted barriers faced by victims and survivors when applying for compensation, including concern that some eligibility criteria have an unfair impact on them. For example, the inquiry reports that those with unspent criminal convictions are excluded from claiming compensation from the scheme in most cases, yet inquiry research also shows that some victims and survivors may commit criminal offences that can be directly attributed to the abuse they suffered, perhaps because it was encouraged by a grooming abuser—I am thinking particularly of the cases of the girls in Rotherham, with which the noble Lord is familiar. The Government have announced a review to consider whether the Criminal Injuries Compensation Scheme remains fit for purpose, and will consult publicly in 2019. I understand that in the past there have been instances where there has been abuse of the scheme.

This inquiry and the progress made would not have been possible without the strength of those victims and survivors who have been affected by child sexual abuse, and have come forward to give evidence, as noted by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chichester and the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti. We offer our continued support and sympathies for them. We also recognise the role of Professor Alexis Jay in leading and making progress with the inquiry.

While progress is being made, as the inquiry’s timeline for public hearings highlights, there is still much work for the inquiry to do as it continues to expose what went wrong, but also setting out how we can provide a safer future for children. Of course, the Government acknowledge that any investigation or inquiry of this type will have an impact on individuals who are alleged to have sexually abused children, as well as their family and friends. Many noble Lords have put that case most clearly this evening. The inquiry has protocols for restriction orders and redaction of information that may identify individuals within the material it discloses to core participants and potentially to the wider public, and these are published on the inquiry’s website.

On the issue of police releasing names to the media before a charge has been made, as raised by the noble Lord, Lord Paddick, this is covered by the College of Policing guidance on media relations, which has recently been updated to make it absolutely clear that it also applies to the release of names of deceased persons.

I understand that noble Lords have concerns about some aspects of the inquiry’s work, yet I urge the House to note the vital work of the inquiry and how crucial its independence from government is to its success.

I now turn to the noble Lord’s Motion to acknowledge the inquiry’s handling of evidence and the concerns raised by many of your Lordships, since this is the largest public inquiry of its kind. The inquiry is clear on its website that,

“Written and oral evidence … will include testimony from core participants who allege that they are the victim and survivor of sexual offences”,


and who are referred to by the inquiry as complainant core participants. I appreciate that this concerns some noble Lords. However, as the Government and the inquiry have been clear throughout, the inquiry’s focus is deliberately on the conduct of institutions and how any allegations were dealt with. At the risk of repeating myself, it is not for the Government to interfere with how the independent inquiry conducts its investigations.

The inquiry is receiving evidence and documentation from victims, survivors, government departments, police forces, churches, schools, local authorities and many other state and non-state institutions across England and Wales. It has held public hearings in relation to eight of its investigative strands, and has received over 158,000 documents, totalling over 1.7 million pages of A4. It is clear that the task the inquiry faces is significant. It has published on its website all the protocols it follows for the handling and publishing of documents. When the inquiry is closed down, the evidence will be transferred to the National Archives.

Several noble Lords raised the issue of false allegations and unproven allegations. False allegations are obviously an extremely serious matter, and accusers could be prosecuted for perverting the course of justice. Obviously, that would be up to the police to decide in each individual case. Where noble Lords feel that allegations are unproven, that information should be shared with the relevant police force.

In response to the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, on the single-strand aspect with regard to Lord Janner being named, I really do recognise and respect the strength not just of his feelings on this subject but of those of many other noble Lords who have spoken. However, I again remind the House that the inquiry’s focus is on the conduct of institutions and how allegations were dealt with. It is not looking into specific allegations of child abuse made against any particular person, living or dead. The position on this particular investigation into the handling of accusations about Lord Janner was revised, and refocused on the institutional failings, as was set out in the notices of determination published in April and May 2017. I understand that this position is being kept under review.

I hope I understood the point raised by my noble friend Lord Finkelstein correctly. On the timing of the public hearing of this strand, the chair has indicated that it will come after the conclusion of the criminal investigations into Leicestershire Police.

My noble friend Lord Hunt asked why the inquiry was not looking at the seven outstanding allegations in relation to Sir Edward Heath but was looking at the case of Lord Janner. I hope that I have addressed that question; indeed, I feel that the noble Lord partly addressed it himself, in clarifying the fact that the inquiry is there to examine institutional failings—and it is those failings that it plans to look at in relation to Lord Janner.

My noble friend Lord Lexden asked about the need for an investigation into the seven outstanding allegations against Sir Edward Heath. I am sure that he will not be surprised to hear that the Government’s position remains unchanged from the recent debates and Questions on this subject and is set out in the letter from my right honourable friend the Home Secretary to the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong of Ilminster.

[Lord Lexden]

Will my noble friend kindly bear in mind what I said about the inadequacy, the undue brevity and the incompleteness of the points made in that letter?

[Baroness Barran]

I thank the noble Lord for asking me to clarify that. I was going to say that I am unable to confirm at this stage whether my right honourable friend the Home Secretary is preparing a letter but I confirm that, as I reported to the House earlier this week, I wrote to him with a copy of the Hansard of the earlier debate.

I recognise the strength of feeling of distinguished public servants regarding both the accusations they face and the approach of IICSA and other inquiries. As was said very eloquently by the noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, reputation is an important and sensitive issue. I thank noble Lords for their contributions on this matter and for noting the progress of the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse. Several noble Lords spoke about the need to speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves; your Lordships have done that today most eloquently. Equally, I trust that your Lordships recognise that the inquiry is playing a crucial role in giving a voice to victims of historical abuse, exposing institutional failings and identifying steps to protect children now and in the future. I urge this House to give the inquiry the support it deserves.

Operation Conifer: Sir Edward Heath

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 18th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Lexden]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to the reply by Baroness Barran on 11 December (HL Deb, cols 1329–32), whether they will reassess the case for an independent inquiry into the seven unsubstantiated allegations against Sir Edward Heath left unresolved at the end of Operation Conifer.

[Baroness Barran (Con)]

The Government have given careful consideration to a review of Operation Conifer but have concluded that there are no grounds to justify review or intervention by the Government.

[Lord Lexden (Con)]

Will the Government heed the view expressed unanimously across this House in a debate last week that justice for Ted Heath demands the establishment of an inquiry, which they fully accept they have the power to set up? Will they stop evading their responsibilities?

[Noble Lords]

Hear, hear.

Operation Conifer

Debate between Baroness Barran and Lord Lexden

Tuesday 11th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barran]

I do not have a personal view on that but I thank the noble Lord for his question. In a moment I will comment on some of the ways in which we feel that progress can be made in this area.

In the words of the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, in an earlier debate on this subject, the police face an “unenviable and difficult task”, because they have a responsibility towards the accused as well as the victims. My noble friend Lord Lexden referred in the same debate to the research led by Professor Carolyn Hoyle and colleagues at Oxford University into the impact of false allegations of sexual abuse on those accused, particularly the fear of further allegations. Professor Hoyle rightly points out that this fear of further allegations is not true of other crimes. I know that pre-charge anonymity for suspects is of concern to noble Lords and has been raised by a number of speakers in this debate.

The release of suspects’ names to the media is addressed in the authorised professional practice guidance on media relations issued by the College of Policing. This makes it clear that the police will not name those arrested or suspected of a crime, save in exceptional circumstances where there is a legitimate policing purpose for doing so. Naming an arrested person before charge should be authorised by a chief officer, and the Crown Prosecution Service should be consulted. In May 2018, the college updated this guidance to make clear that this also applies where allegations are made against deceased persons. This seems to strike a sensible balance, but it is important that we get this right. The previous Home Secretary therefore asked Her Majesty’s Inspectorate of Constabulary and Fire & Rescue Services to carry out a short, targeted review of police adherence to the guidance on media relations, looking in particular at pre-charge anonymity. The inspectorate is undertaking a scoping study this financial year to consider where inspection activity might best be focused. In addition, the College of Policing is consulting on this issue with the National Police Chiefs’ Council, the Police Superintendents’ Association and the Police Federation.

The Government are genuinely trying to ensure that lessons are learned from the experience of operating this guidance. I hope this will go some way to reassuring my noble friend Lord Sherbourne, the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, and others who mentioned this.

The Government’s position on Operation Conifer remains as set out in the letter that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary sent to the noble Lord, Lord Armstrong, in October. The letter has been placed in the Lords Library. I thank all noble Lords for the careful consideration they have given to this matter. I recognise that the inconclusive nature of the investigation’s findings are unsatisfactory for everyone. I will make sure that my right honourable friend the Home Secretary gets a copy of the Hansard containing this debate.

I understand that there will be disappointment, especially among the many noble Lords who knew and worked with Sir Edward, but I repeat what I said earlier in my speech: no inference of Sir Edward’s guilt should be drawn from the conclusions of Operation Conifer. It is also absolutely clear that those noble Lords who knew Sir Edward well do not have any doubt about his innocence. I share the view of my right honourable friend the Home Secretary that the cloud of suspicion hanging over Sir Edward could be removed only if it were possible to interview him personally, something that, sadly, can no longer happen.

The response to my noble friend Lord Lexden’s final question, sadly, is no. We remain of the view that this is a matter for the local police and crime commissioner to handle, and it would not be appropriate for the Government to seek to persuade him how to go about this.

[Lord Lexden]

My Lords, I perform the traditional duty of thanking all participants in this debate with particular strength and great sincerity. Like many others, I commiserate with my noble friend who had the task of replying to this debate. She will realise at once that she leaves the House entirely and completely dissatisfied.

Across the House, we have been of one accord, united in a common purpose and determined to see justice done in this exceptionally important case, which has quite rightly attracted widespread public attention. A Conservative statesman has been traduced. We must have the truth, and we will get it.

I asked the Government four specific detailed questions about the conduct of Operation Conifer, its dire consequences and the need for an inquiry. What has been said in reply to this debate does not suffice by way of answer. I trust that I will have full answers to all four questions and that they will be sent as soon as possible to all those who have taken part in this debate and placed in the Library of the House. The most important of the four, as I stressed, was the last, on the seven unsubstantiated allegations. They simply must be examined and cleared up.

Those who care about the reputation of Ted Heath today; those who write and lecture today, this generation and the generations to come, as historians—and I speak as an historian—must have the full, definitive facts. We must have an accurate historical record.

Those who have debated this Motion have made clear their absolute support for it. Among those who have spoken, the Contents have had it without a single Not-Content—and I am content with that clear moral victory this evening in this important debate. I beg leave to withdraw the Motion.