Environmental Permitting (England and Wales) (Amendment) (England) Regulations 2023

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Grand Committee

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for presenting the regulations before us this afternoon and the opportunity to put one or two questions. He will recall the history of the attempt to frack—the use of hydraulic fracturing—in North Yorkshire, and that the one reason it was not allowed to happen was because no permit was given for the water supply and the reuse of water.

I am very grateful to the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee for its 36th Report, which says that Defra has no intention of revisiting that issue. Can I press my noble friend the Minister to ensure that there will be no end to the current moratorium on hydraulic fracturing, or fracking, in any part of England, to the extent that it might fall within the regulations before us this afternoon? If there was to be an end to the moratorium, can he give us an undertaking that the Government—whichever department it happened to be, as departments come and go—would actually come before both Houses with revised permitting, with regard to fracking?

I now turn to the Explanatory Memorandum, starting with paragraph 7.16 onwards, relating to groundwater activities and the use of geothermal and other green technologies. Could my noble friend explain whether, if there is a significant risk of introducing microbial pollution, no permit would actually be issued in that regard, whether it is close to a sensitive habitat or not? That is just to understand what the purposes of the permitting are. I understand, in the second paragraph of 7.18, that it does look as though this is going to become a regulated activity, so I would just like to understand entirely what the remit of the department in relation to the regulations would be.

On paragraph 7.22, and an unauthorised illegal third-party discharge into a sewer network, could my noble friend highlight specifically what activity is in play there? Obviously, there is a situation where there is a heavy rainfall and sewage can flow on to a highway and then into someone’s house. I understand that highways authorities currently have no responsibility for any sewage overflow, or do not contribute in any way to reducing flood risk in this regard. Is that a loophole, if you like, that the Government would like to close? Obviously, it is unfortunate at the moment that there are not sufficient sustainable drains in place and that there is no end to the automatic right to connect, which may mean that sewage flowing as wastewater from a four- or five-bedroomed house which has been given planning permission can come into a combined sewer and unfortunately spill into houses, either directly into an existing development, or off a highway. So there does seem to be this loophole that highways authorities are not covered. Is that what my noble friend means by an unauthorised illegal third-party discharge? I am just trying to understand what paragraph 7.22 of the Explanatory Memorandum would cover.

With those few remarks, I otherwise welcome the regulations before us this afternoon.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introductory remarks to this SI. The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee looked at this instrument in April and raised concerns about groundwater quality and sub-surface energy proposals. As a result, Defra revised the Explanatory Memorandum. Those amendments helped to clarify the instrument, but I have some comments and questions.

As the EM states, groundwater “plays a vital role” for food manufacturing, brewing, wetland ecosystems and the agriculture industry, to which the Minister referred in his opening remarks. The quality and purity of this water is vital to many of these, especially chalk streams, the protection of which was debated last week during the passage of the Levelling-up and Regeneration Bill. This instrument indicates that it will update and clarify the existing control measures within the EPR for protecting groundwater from site-based activities. Will this include the discharge of chicken slurry into the River Wye, for instance, or is this classified as not groundwater but surface water? Perhaps those are the same.

Land Use Commission

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Monday 22nd May 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises a crucial point. We talk about farmers and land managers, but those descriptions are too simple and generic, because we have owner-occupiers, registered tenants under the 1986 Act, graziers and farm business tenancies; it is an incredibly complex system of tenure. We are considering the Rock report and will respond to it.

Of course, the Church is a very big landowner. We want to make sure that it works alongside a great many other landowners, both large and small, to tackle these important issues, including feeding the population; tackling net zero; reversing declines in species; building homes; and providing space for people—all on a single piece of real estate. This is a complicated process, but it is one that we are determined to tackle.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, as a member of the land use committee, I know just how many detailed evidence sessions and discussion there were on the proposals for a land use commission. As the noble Lord, Lord Cameron, indicated, the proposed commission is to cover all aspects of land use and more than one government department, not just Defra. However, there has been no indication of when this report will be allocated time for a debate in this Chamber. Can the Minister please put in a good word for it to be expedited before the Summer Recess?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I would love to spend hours talking about this issue; it is one of endless fascination. I have the zeal of the convert on this because I was always sceptical about what I felt was a very top-down process but, having read the report, I now see the need for it. That is why we are tackling the issue in a meaningful way right across government; if we can find time for a debate on the report, I am certain that I will be dragged in to give the Government’s view.

Water Companies: Licences

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Monday 24th April 2023 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the announcement by Ofwat on 20 March of a change to the licences of water companies requiring that dividend payments are linked to performance.

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

My Lords, we support Ofwat’s new measures, which were made possible by new licence modification powers that this Government gave to Ofwat via the Environment Act 2021. The measures strengthen the existing dividend licence conditions so that Ofwat can take enforcement action against water companies that do not make an explicit link between dividend payments and their performance for customers and the environment.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his response. Since I tabled this Question, the Government have published their plan for delivering clean and plentiful water, which is to be welcomed and offers much hope. However, river pollution has blocked the development of 20,000 much-needed new homes, and more than 7,500 days’ worth of raw sewage has been dumped in various Ministers’ constituencies. Does the Minister believe that withholding dividend payments to water company executives and shareholders will really contribute to making the difference needed to improve long-term water quality? Surely something more robust is needed.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My Lords, that is just part of a great many things that the Government are doing. The new power that the Environment Agency has to link the companies’ licences to ring-fence provision on infrastructure spending is important. This comes as part of a plan that includes the Environment Act, as I said earlier; the Storm Overflows Discharge Reduction Plan; a strategic policy statement for Ofwat, in which the Government required very stringent new standards; and our recently published plan for water. No Government are doing more to tackle this issue.

Oil Spill: Poole Harbour

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Wednesday 29th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, this is an incredibly worrying time for the people whose lives and incomes are affected by this oil spill. It has now been confirmed that oil is ashore and wildlife is affected. Can the Minister advise us on when the infrastructure protecting Poole harbour was last examined for statutory compliance? Can he confirm that his department and the Environment Agency will provide support to restore the sensitive eco balance of the marshlands and harbour?

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, television has shown us the extent of this spill; the oil has clearly mixed with the water in the bay. Two hundred barrels were released, allegedly containing only 20% oil, yet seabirds are being covered in it. This is not the first time such an instance has occurred. The plant is 50 years old. This is an SSSI, a Ramsar site and a European marine site, and the licence for the plant has another 15 years to run. Does the Minister agree that this is not the right environment for such a polluting activity to take place, affecting not only the environment but the bathing water status of Poole harbour?

[The Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her point, and I agree with her that this is a very serious and worrying spill; I hope it has been contained. A lot of work has been done by a lot of agencies, including the marine coastal agency, the Environment Agency, Natural England, the Food Standards Agency—regarding the shellfish produced in Poole harbour—and the local IFCA. The Dorset Local Resilience Forum has also done noble work in galvanising lots of different agencies to resolve this.

I am not aware of the legislation governing Poole Harbour, but, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, points out, there are overlaying environmental designations; it is a very special area indeed. There is also an enormous amount of human activity, not least that associated with the tourist income for the local area. We want to make sure that we are not only containing this but finding out what caused it and doing everything we can to make sure it does not happen again. The recovery operation has sealed the pipe. It will be replaced and we will monitor the company doing that, which owns this very large facility, and make sure that the polluter is responsible for the damage caused.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, is absolutely right: about 80% of the 200 barrels of pollutant that was released was water. As of this morning, some 20 birds have been found to be affected. It is not known at this stage whether they will recover or will require further treatment, but I very much hope that we have contained the situation.

Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2023

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Tuesday 28th March 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville]

Leave out all the words after “that” and insert “that this House declines to approve the Direct Payments to Farmers (Reductions) (England) Regulations 2023 as they would reduce the direct payments made to farmers for the 2023 year of the Basic Payments Scheme; considers that the implementation of this reduction in payments, combined with rising input and energy costs to produce food, risks the livelihoods of British farmers as they transition their businesses to producing food and public goods like environmental protection; and calls on His Majesty’s Government to accelerate urgently the roll-out of the Environmental Land Management scheme”.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction. Needless to say, I have a different view and feel that he somewhat overstates his case. The statutory instrument reduces the money that farmers get from the CAP through the basic farm payments by at least a further 35%. After Brexit, the then Minister assured the House that as the Government phased out BPS payments on a sliding scale, the environmental land management scheme would replace payments, but on a different basis. The Minister gave assurances that the total sum of money—£2.4 billion, as mentioned—that had been allocated under the CAP would be maintained and reallocated under ELMS during the seven-year transition period.

The Minister at the time believed that, and I believed him. What has actually happened in somewhat different. The money may well be there, but it has not been allocated in a way that farmers can easily access. The Direct Payments to Farmers (Reduction) (England) Regulations 2022, which came into force on 15 April 2022, made the following reductions in direct payments: to those farmers receiving £30,000 or less, 20%; to those receiving more than £30,000 but less than £50,000, 25%; to those receiving between £50,000 and more than £150,000, 35%.

That is what the SI said. I believe it should have read, “those between £50,000 and no more than £150,000”, as the next category is those above £150,000—40%, on top of the previous year’s reductions. The SI we are debating today would make additional reductions as follows: for £30,000 or less, 35%; above £30,000 and no more than £50,000, 40%; above £50,000 and no more than £150,000, 50%; and above £150,000, 55%.

We can see immediately that the cumulative effect is very harsh indeed. Now, this would not matter if farmers were able to replace this lost income through ELMS. There are some excellent ELMS strands which have been rolled out, as the Minister has listed, but many are still in the pilot stage. Others have yet to see the light of day in a form which farmers can easily assimilate and assess how this would fit in with their business plans and models.

Farmers are struggling. They have seen significant cuts to their basic payment already: at least 5% in December 2021 and at least 20% in December 2022. Meanwhile, input costs have increased significantly. Energy bills are sky high, and the costs of fertilisers and animal feeds are also significantly up. Farmers are struggling to recruit people to pick produce, leaving food rotting in the fields, despite Ministers encouraging our population to move to areas where this type of work is available. The avian flu crisis is leading to egg shortages. The weather in Spain has led to major shortages of produce in supermarkets. This latter is clear evidence of climate change and an excellent example of why the UK needs to transition faster.

While farmers are struggling with all these factors, the Government are cutting energy support for them from this April by about 85%. The energy bills support scheme is being replaced by the energy bills discount scheme. Under the support scheme, farmers, like all other businesses, benefited from an absolute cap on the cost of electricity and gas per kilowatt hour. Under the new discount scheme, which starts on 1 April, businesses will get a discount: a small proportion of the bill covered. This means that farmers are likely to see energy support drop by 85%. So not only are farmers losing BPS this year, they are seeing this help cut—all during a food shortage crisis.

Farms are no longer to be classed as energy-intensive businesses, robbing them of more support. Minette Batters, president of the NFU, wrote to the Chancellor ahead of the Budget, asking him to prioritise food production. This request was ignored. Ms Batters said

“the NFU was clear that greater support is needed for the thousands of farm businesses which are trying, but struggling, to keep our nation fed amidst soaring production costs. It’s therefore extremely frustrating that the Energy and Trade Intensive Industries scheme was not extended to include energy intensive sectors such as horticulture and poultry”.

Farmers are being undermined by the new trade deals that allow food to be imported from Australia and New Zealand which, despite ministerial reassurances, is not produced to animal welfare and environmental standards currently existing in the UK. If this SI is agreed and another 35% reduction in farmers’ basic payments goes through, food production is likely to drop even more as farmers make decisions now about what to plant and produce next year. We are seeing the increased cost of both fertiliser and energy leading to tomato plantings in the UK dropping off dramatically.

Farmers should be able to replace the money lost through access to new and better environmental land management schemes. We on these Benches support ELMS. However, the Government have not handled the transition at all well. It has been somewhat botched. There was even a threat back in September, under the premiership of Liz Truss, that ELMS would be dropped altogether.

Cambridgeshire farmer Martin Lines, the chairman of the Nature Friendly Farming Network, which promotes sustainable farming, said that any delay to the ELMS would deny farmers crucial support to adapt to a changing climate. He said:

“If the government is stalling ELMS, it is failing any duty of leadership in maintaining momentum and building resilience”.


No wonder farmers are not rushing to take up those ELMS already launched.

We are six years after the Brexit vote, and two years after the start of the reduction in basic payments. On 5 January this year at the Oxford Farming Conference, Minister Spencer announced more money for farmers and landowners through both the countryside stewardship and the sustainable farming incentive schemes. As the Minister has already said, this change means that farmers could receive up to a further £1,000 per year for taking nature-friendly farming action through the sustainable farming incentive—SFI. This new management payment will be made for the first 50 hectares of farm, at £20 per hectare, in an SFI agreement, to cover the administrative costs of participation and to attract smaller businesses—many of which are tenant farmers—that are currently underrepresented in the scheme.

--- Later in debate ---

I will just make a final point about the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. You cannot have it both ways: you cannot say you want to accelerate ELMS and then revert to the old scheme. I absolutely am prepared to accept the noble Baroness’s commitment to farming, but the wording of her amendment would have the effect of removing £700 million of investment in farming businesses this year and would disincentivise all the uptake of the schemes that we want to see. I hope noble Lords will reject the amendment. I commend the draft regulations to the House.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in this debate, and I am grateful to the Minister for his response. It is undoubtedly true that the reduction in the BPS was well trailed and consulted on and appeared reasonable. As other noble Lords have said, change is always difficult, but as others have also said, it could have been handled better.

What was not anticipated by farmers was the extremely slow rollout of ELMS. The initial pilots should have been held before the beginning of the reduction of the BPS. Had this been done earlier, there could have been a faster and more efficient rollout of ELMS across the farming community. The noble Earl, Lord Caithness, referred to the uncertainty farmers are currently feeling.

Most farmers are keen to take part and improve their land quality, contribute to net zero, improve biodiversity and restore habitats. However, they need to make a living at the same time. The Minister has extolled the virtue of the SFI, which last year spent only 0.44% of the overall budget on that scheme.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, referred to the many debates we had during the progress of the Agriculture Act, and to the long-term nature of farming. We made those points over and again, but they were not listened to. Energy price hikes and fertiliser shortages have not helped. Changing to a different method of fertiliser takes time, and the shortage of fodder for animals has also had an impact. All this has had a cumulative effect on farm profitability.

Like the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, and the noble Duke, the Duke of Wellington, we fully support the ethos and rollout of ELMS. The noble Baroness, Lady Boycott, made some very important points on the reward that farmers get for their produce, saying that it is so small and unsustainable. She promotes escalating ELMS, and we fully support her in this. What we are asking for is a pause in the reduction of the BPS. ELMS is vital and needs to speed up to catch up with the gap that the BPS has created.

Some 70% of land in the country is managed by either agriculture, horticulture or open countryside. The land needs and deserves to be managed in a sustainable way. We must ensure farmers are still here to achieve this. Some 44,000 farmers have left farming in the last four years; that is an undeniable fact. I do not believe that the whole House is on a very different page; we just do not agree on the way this should go forward. I understand and appreciate that others do not support this amendment. Nevertheless, I would like to test the opinion of the House.

Food Price Inflation

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Thursday 23rd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Baroness that the Secretary of State is deeply involved in this issue. The Food Minister, Mark Spencer, took this Urgent Question, which is right, as he is the Minister responsible for food supply, food security and other related issues. The noble Baroness is absolutely right that this matter affects a number of different departments right across government, and the Prime Minister and the Chancellor of the Exchequer have also been deeply involved in this. I do not know precisely what meetings the Secretary of State has had on this issue, but I will be happy to write to the noble Baroness with details of discussions she has had. I can certainly say from my own experience that the Secretary of State is very involved in this issue.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for repeating the Statement. Some £37 billion has gone to support households with the cost of living but there is no detail as to eligibility. Can the Minister say how this money is being distributed? I welcome the Government’s intention to permanently extend free school meals eligibility to children from all families with no recourse to public funds. Can the Minister say whether this means that free school meals will be available to all those who are eligible during the school holidays? As the Statement says, the price of milk, cheese and eggs has risen by 30.8%. Can the Minister say whether any of the £37 billion support is reaching the farmers who produce our milk, cheese and eggs?

Imported Beef

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

My noble friend is absolutely right that there are some different standards in the EU, and we have worked as members of the EU and will continue to work with the EU and other countries through the World Organisation for Animal Health and the World Trade Organization to create greater and higher standards of animal welfare that more reflect what we have here so that there is a much more even playing field in trade across the world.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, the Government appear very keen to do trade deals with Canada and Mexico, against the advice of the Climate Change Committee, which felt that such deals would compromise UK carbon targets, allowing imported meat with a higher carbon footprint than our own. Why are the Government not prepared to take measures to achieve the UK’s carbon targets? Perhaps they feel they are unimportant.

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Baroness that we do not. The Climate Change Committee has gone through each department. I am responsible in Defra for making sure that we satisfy the Climate Change Committee’s demands, which are extremely challenging and testing. We have a commitment to get to net zero by 2050. British farming, under the leadership of the NFU, has committed to getting to net zero by 2040, and I can tell her that, as a farmer, that is an extremely challenging thing to do, but we as a Government and the leadership of farming are working together to help farmers try to achieve that. It is a vital priority that we decarbonise, and we understand that there is prosperity in doing so.

Agriculture (Financial Assistance) (Amendment) Regulations 2023

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Tuesday 14th March 2023 Grand Committee

Two final questions remain for the Minister. Will the Government now reconsider their income-forgone model for payment, also mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh? It has long been derided, over many years, for linking payments to production. Will they now reconsider that food is a public good, which was rejected under the Agriculture Act 2020?

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this statutory instrument and for his time, and that of the officials, in providing a briefing. I welcome his warning of impending doom should the fatal Motion be agreed in two weeks’ time.

The gist of this SI is that some information on the financial assistance that farmers receive for their activities will not now be published and therefore open to scrutiny. The Agriculture Act indicated that this information would be available for public scrutiny, and these exemptions from publication relate to the annual health and welfare review and the tree health pilot.

The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee considered this SI on 28 February and asked a number of questions of Defra as to why there should not be publication of the assistance farmers are receiving. The answers related to the likely disadvantages farmers would face if detailed information was published. In the SLSC report, it is clear that Defra Ministers would be able to exempt certain schemes from the full publication requirement without having to lay secondary legislation before Parliament.

Defra stated that it

“carefully considered where publication could have a detrimental impact on scheme uptake, risk achievement of target outcomes and value for money, as well as potentially damage individuals and businesses.”

Can the Minister give examples of where such instances might occur, leading to a detrimental impact on the farmer and on scheme uptake? It would be useful for the Committee to know this.

Turning to the Explanatory Memorandum itself, the last bullet point in paragraph 7.4 refers to

“the investigation of breaches and suspected offences in connection with applications for, or the receipt, of financial assistance”.

Can the Minister say how many suspected offences and breaches are recorded in any one year? Is this a big problem or only an occasional occurrence? Paragraph 7.6 states that the instrument

“omits the previous definition of the ‘farming investment fund’ that referred only to section 1(2) of the Act… For example, the policy intention is to launch the ‘animal health and welfare scheme’ as part of the farming investment fund”.

Can the Minister please give an example of just what this means?

Paragraph 7.7 of the Explanatory Memorandum indicates that publishing a full list of financial assistance received could lead to individuals and businesses not reporting cases of pests and diseases, for fear of not being able to sell their stock or produce or being accused of having poor animal health practices. I understand this rationale but, on the other hand, it is important that everybody knows where there are outbreaks of pests and diseases. It is not helpful to neighbouring farms if, for instance, there is an outbreak of African swine fever in pigs in an area, especially if they are kept outside and neighbouring farms are unaware of that.

It is not just animal diseases which it is important to be aware of. For example, plants and trees are also under threat; in particular, they are under severe threat from oak processionary moth and Xylella fastidiosa. Can the Minister provide assurance that pests and diseases will be notified to Defra and its officials, even though they are not on the published list of financial support given to the farmer or the individual concerned?

I fully support the importance of encouraging farmers to join as many schemes available under ELMS as possible to maintain their living. It is also important for the public to understand what the money they receive is spent on. I also accept that publishing some information could give the wrong impression of what is happening on farms. It is important to protect farmers and their families from the activities of animal rights activists, wherever possible.

There is a fine line between total transparency on how public money is allocated and protection of the privacy and reputation of those engaged in agriculture in the wider sense. I am confident that the Minister is fully supportive of this. I have expressed my concerns but, generally, I support this SI.

[Baroness Anderson of Stoke-on-Trent (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction to this SI. While this is my first outing shadowing him, I am sure it will not be my last—unless this goes horribly wrong—and I look forward to our interactions in the months ahead. I also thank his officials for indulging my newbie questions in the briefing.

In recent weeks, our newspapers have been filled with tales of food shortages, excessive levels of food inflation and the associated food poverty. There has even been a national debate about our domestic turnips. No longer is the impact on our farmers and rural communities reserved to news stories on “Farming Today”. We live in a period of global uncertainty and economic challenge; this is no less the case for our domestic agricultural economy than for any other sector. Labour shortages, new bureaucracy and the ongoing impact of the war in Ukraine on grain and energy supplies are having a direct and daily impact on our domestic food supplies, as well as on the natural environment.

It is therefore vital that, in our post-Brexit world, we get the regulatory and payment structures fit for purpose to ensure security of food supply, and that we do everything that we can to support our farming businesses and communities. They are invaluable to our long-term sustainability and security, and we all rely on them. That is why the Labour Party will not be opposing this SI. However, I have some questions for the Minister relating to the implementation of the regulations.

The financial assistance amendment places more burden on Defra civil servants in terms of monitoring and the likely ongoing adaptation of some of the financial assistance schemes already launched. Can the Minister confirm that Defra has the resources to apply these changes in a timely manner over the next 12 months, given the additional strains which would be placed on his department by the Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill, should it pass into statute? I promise that I do not seek to rerun the arguments which were heard in Committee on the REUL Bill last week; rather, I seek reassurance from the Minister that this has been considered and that appropriate resources are in place.

Following on from the debate in the other place on this statutory instrument, I hope the Minister can assist the Committee in answering some specifics which his colleague, the Farming Minister, failed to address. My colleague Daniel Zeichner sought clarification on Regulation 5(c); can the Minister confirm which schemes do not require a request for payment but will instead require an annual declaration to the Secretary of State? How many cases do we believe will fall into that category each year?

I also seek clarity on points raised by the right honourable Kit Malthouse in the other place in Committee. Referring to paragraph 7.6 of the Explanatory Memorandum, he asked:

“Does that mean that, without parliamentary consent, the Minister can start or close a new scheme or quietly”—[Official Report, Commons, Delegated Legislation Committee, 28/2/23; col. 8.]


abandon a funding mechanism that is no longer viable? As my noble friend Lord Grantchester highlighted, given the significant discretion that now rests with the Secretary of State, can the Minister confirm that, when schemes are launched, amended or closed, the department will be required to consult their beneficiaries before the terms are revised? If so, to what timetable will the department work?

I know that the Minister has vast experience of this area, which I do not claim to have, and is committed to making these regulations work for our farmers. I look forward to working with him in the months ahead to deliver the best possible deal for our rural communities.

Retained EU Law (Revocation and Reform) Bill

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 8th March 2023 Lords Chamber

I decided to become a scientist as a child because we had just approved Calder Hall—the first atomic power station producing civil nuclear power in the world. It was produced a few years after the war when the first atomic weapon was produced. They went through the whole process of inventing the technology, getting approval, and getting up and running in those few years. Nowadays, you would not even get through the approval process for the environmental regulations in that time. That cannot be right. There must be scope to streamline these processes in a way that does not undermine environmental protection, or mean that we will lose biodiversity or that our beautiful landscape will be desecrated. I hope that we focus on that aspect of changes to environmental law as the principal fruit of the REUL Bill.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Parminter clearly set out the arguments for Amendment 126, which I fully support. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, ably introduced her Amendment 130, to which I have added my name. I will speak briefly to that amendment.

The Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Benyon, made it clear that he is personally committed to ensuring that environmental standards are maintained, that biosecurity is improved, and that the Government leave the environment in a better state than they found it. However, this commitment and aim are not shared by all in the current Government.

The Bill is worded in such a way as to provide a very large degree of what can be called “wriggle room”. We have debated in Clause 15 the meaning of “appropriate” and how this will be interpreted by both officials and Ministers when it comes to individual pieces of legislation.

Clause 15 allows Ministers to amend important retained EU environmental law on nature, water and chemicals, ensuring that there is no reduction in environmental protection. This has to be achieved without extra bureaucracy, taxes or burdens being incurred. My noble friend Lady Parminter has spoken on this issue.

In evidence to the Lords Environment and Climate Change Committee, the Secretary of State referred to the Environment Agency’s wish

“to change quite a lot of the water framework directive”.

The quality of our water has featured in our debates more often than many of us would care to mention. To be informed that a lot of changes are likely to come to the water framework directive without any indication of what they may be is extremely worrying for many in this Chamber. The noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, also raised this.

Amendment 130 would insert a new clause whose aim is to maintain environmental standards across a range of regulations and directives, which the country has taken for granted and which have protected the health of the population, our environment, wildlife and the marine environment over the years. Proposed new subsection (4) lists those laws that we believe are essential to keep. Others are also important, as the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman of Ullock, also raised, but those five are vital and should be included in the Bill. There is consensus on this across the Committee.

We have debated these issues on previous days in Committee without the Minister giving any comfort. On this occasion, we are all looking for the Minister to realise that the vital issue of protecting the environment and the population is not going to trickle away. Unless he wants to see a flood of opposition from all quarters, both inside and outside Parliament, he will accept the amendment before we come to Report. I look forward to his agreement.

[Lord Inglewood (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I have been listening to this debate with interest. Obviously, it relates to environmental standards, but is also about the way in which the legislation that deals with environmental standards is cast. I am sure we are all agreed that some of the things that the noble Lord, Lord Lilley, described could be substantially mitigated, to the benefit of everybody.

Having said that, what we see with the two amendments we are considering is the introduction of legal certainty into the legislation. That, it seems to me, is actually quite important because, as has been described on previous days in Committee, the underlying rationale behind the kind of approach being adopted by the Government is what I might describe as the operation of a compensatory principle. This, it seems to me, is a very attractive notion. But how is it going to work? In particular, as has been debated previously, what is the currency you use to determine whether or not something is compensation? It has to be equivalent, it seems to me. That is the basic meaning of the word in the English language.

Then there has been discussion about “Well, it’ll be done on the whim of a civil servant or a Minister”. But I do not think this is going to be the end of the story—this is what my concern is—because any change that comes about will produce winners and losers. Wherever there are winners and losers, not least in this area of policy, the law gets dragged in. I can see that the whole scheme on which this particular approach has been adopted is going to lead to an absolute abundance of applications for judicial review, because any change that is made on the basis of this compensatory principle is going to have a winner and a loser, and is going to be the hinge on which the legislation depends. I would be very interested to know the views of the Front Bench on this, because I can see that what sounds superficially like a siren song of easy administration may well end up providing an absolute bonanza for lawyers. I suppose that, as one myself, I should declare an interest.

Water Companies: Water Pollution

Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Excerpts

Wednesday 1st March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

I am not an aquatic scientist but I can tell my noble friend that the problem in the Wye is principally due to phosphates coming from the poultry industry, which has boomed in that area and for which no adequate planning provision was made to prevent the leakage of effluent. The Environment Agency and other parts of Defra are making sure that we are correcting that. I hope that we will prevent what is happening, which is an absolute tragedy. For large parts of the year, large sections of one of the great rivers of this country are nearly ecologically dead. We want to reverse that.

[Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)]

My Lords, there has been considerable media interest in the pollution of bathing waters, inland rivers and waterways as a result of the release of sewage overflows. Nearly every week, the Minister is called here to answer questions on this issue. Given that warmer weather is approaching, can he say how the Government will protect the health of the children and adults who will be exposed to this fetid and polluted water?

[Lord Benyon (Con)]

We rightly beat ourselves up about this but it is worth stating that our bathing waters are in their best state ever. Last year, 93% of them were classified as “good” or “excellent”. The number of serious sewage incidents has fallen from 500 a year in the 1990s to 62 in 2021, although that number is still 62 too many. What is called wild swimming—what my mother used to call swimming—is becoming a great national sport and activity. We want to connect more people with nature; that is a wonderful way of doing it. Making sure that our rivers are clean is vital.