Foreign Affairs Committee
Tuesday 8th September 2026
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10:30
John Whittingdale
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John Whittingdale
Good morning. This is the a session of the Foreign Affairs Committee, where we are looking at the forthcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government meeting in November. And I should start by first of all, saying that I'm in the chair today because our chair, Emily Thornberry, is unable to be with us, and also one of our witnesses previously advertised. Professor Onslow is also unable to be here. But can I welcome our two witnesses on the first panel? And would you like to introduce yourselves, Doctor Carrington? Mr.
Carrington, you start.
Carrington, you start.
10:31
10:31
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Thanks. Yeah, I'm Grace Carrington, I'm an honorary research fellow at the UCL Institute of the Americas. I specialise in politics and decolonization in the Caribbean. So my last book looked at non-independent states, including the British Overseas Territories. And my current book project looks more at the relationship with the monarchy, campaigns for republics and debates around reparations in the Caribbean.
10:31
10:31
10:32
10:32
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think that in my view, I think in recent times, the Commonwealth has drifted to the margins of international relations. I think that there's a growing foreign policy tendency in the UK that the Commonwealth is somewhat outdated, irrelevant and is not necessarily an international arena where British national interests can be amplified. Big thing without the one family report that authored for the Policy Exchange was that it dismissed that view, or rather, I wanted to do, is offer a blueprint in terms of providing the Commonwealth with a renewed sense of purpose and the UK playing a leadership role in that.
I certainly think in certain areas it will be able to achieve that, especially when it comes to educational cooperation. I think environmental sustainability is a big area, especially when we're looking at small state development across the Commonwealth. But I think the one thing that I really wanted to achieve with the report is that we do need a Commonwealth, which has a bit more teeth. I think that those are the softer comfort zone policy areas. So we suggested the creation of a Security and Defence cooperation Forum within the Commonwealth, and that would help to support member states such as Guyana, for example, which is faced, in my view, considerable sort of political aggression, if you call it that way, from neighbouring Venezuela, especially over the oil rich Essequibo region.
So we're talking about the idea of there having the potential to have collective military exercises, increased naval cooperation. I think that just the sense that there are certain areas where we traditionally look at traditional alliances, such as NATO, but I think that in terms of the Commonwealth, if it wants to have that increased relevance within the international system, I think that it would be very difficult to achieve without deepening cooperation between member states, especially in areas of security and defence. But that's not just military, but also looking at sort of what forms of modern cooperation we can have, especially in terms of cyber security.
There's member states such as Namibia, Cameroon and Tanzania, which are exceptionally vulnerable, have very weak cyber security infrastructure, and the UK has a sophisticated, I'd say, Commonwealth leading capability in terms of cyber security. So not looking at just those traditional sort of military and naval alliances, but also looking at to deepen cyber security, because I think that's essential if we want to really allow underdeveloped countries across the Commonwealth to grow and prosper over time.
I certainly think in certain areas it will be able to achieve that, especially when it comes to educational cooperation. I think environmental sustainability is a big area, especially when we're looking at small state development across the Commonwealth. But I think the one thing that I really wanted to achieve with the report is that we do need a Commonwealth, which has a bit more teeth. I think that those are the softer comfort zone policy areas. So we suggested the creation of a Security and Defence cooperation Forum within the Commonwealth, and that would help to support member states such as Guyana, for example, which is faced, in my view, considerable sort of political aggression, if you call it that way, from neighbouring Venezuela, especially over the oil rich Essequibo region.
So we're talking about the idea of there having the potential to have collective military exercises, increased naval cooperation. I think that just the sense that there are certain areas where we traditionally look at traditional alliances, such as NATO, but I think that in terms of the Commonwealth, if it wants to have that increased relevance within the international system, I think that it would be very difficult to achieve without deepening cooperation between member states, especially in areas of security and defence. But that's not just military, but also looking at sort of what forms of modern cooperation we can have, especially in terms of cyber security.
There's member states such as Namibia, Cameroon and Tanzania, which are exceptionally vulnerable, have very weak cyber security infrastructure, and the UK has a sophisticated, I'd say, Commonwealth leading capability in terms of cyber security. So not looking at just those traditional sort of military and naval alliances, but also looking at to deepen cyber security, because I think that's essential if we want to really allow underdeveloped countries across the Commonwealth to grow and prosper over time.
10:34
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, I would agree. I think there's a real challenge in making sure that the Commonwealth seems relevant to the 21st century. I think the kind of imperial legacies are something that that pose a kind of challenge to that, to make it seem a kind of modern partnership for for the present age. And I think the UK actually has a really key role in that. If the UK approaches the Commonwealth from a perspective of leadership, I think there's an issue there in its seeming much more like those kind of traditional colonial dynamics.
Whereas I think if the UK approaches the Commonwealth from the perspective of partnership, collaboration, coalition building, there's scope there for a much more modern partnership in the UK, kind of reinforcing that. I think one of the key opportunities for the Commonwealth is around the Climate Coalition, building around issues on climate and environment, particularly with the timing of CHOGM. Having Cop 31 just a few days afterwards. So I think there's a real opportunity there for for the Commonwealth to be a very useful forum feeding into Cop 31.
Whereas I think if the UK approaches the Commonwealth from the perspective of partnership, collaboration, coalition building, there's scope there for a much more modern partnership in the UK, kind of reinforcing that. I think one of the key opportunities for the Commonwealth is around the Climate Coalition, building around issues on climate and environment, particularly with the timing of CHOGM. Having Cop 31 just a few days afterwards. So I think there's a real opportunity there for for the Commonwealth to be a very useful forum feeding into Cop 31.
10:35
10:36
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
No, absolutely. I think that's a that's a very important question to ask. I think there's no doubt we've seen in recent times China, for example, looking to gain not just an economic foothold, especially in the African Commonwealth member states, but also looking to develop a sort of military and policing presence, especially in the sensitive Indo-Pacific region. And I think that's where the UK has to be realistic about its role. I think that in terms of its leadership role, that needs to be done in partnership with other countries, I think India is a critically important strategic ally in that sense.
I think working closely with countries such as Nigeria as well, which I think has considerable potential as a kind of considerable youthful potential. I think in terms of the roles that there's there's naturally issues in terms of Russia making certain certain military and defence investments, especially in African member states. So it's not necessarily easy. I think that the UK will have to work on that over time. I think the critical point to make is that there needs to be a sort of there needs to be a cultural shift.
I think that there is, as I said, that foreign policy tendency of looking at the Commonwealth as irrelevant. But I don't think we should give up and say, oh, because China have gained such a foothold here. And then Russia made certain developments in terms of those military and defence investments. I think that what we need to do is, in response to that, as a counterbalance, we do need to look to deepen defence and security cooperation over time. Now, that won't happen overnight, but I think that we should work towards that, and I think that critically, we should do that with countries which are traditionally been quite strong diplomatic allies within the Commonwealth.
I think Australia definitely has a role to play in that, and I think it's also in Australian national interest, especially with China looking to make those developments in terms of trying to contribute towards the social institutional development of Pacific island countries. I think recently he's tried to interact with Fiji. There was a policing agreement there with Fiji. I think Fiji's taken a step back from that. But there is that history, obviously, with China having that pact with the Solomon Islands in those critical areas.
So I think that the key is, is for the UK to work with like minded allies within the Commonwealth to try and make the Commonwealth, over time, be a counterbalance towards growing Chinese and Russian involvement and influence within the international system.
I think working closely with countries such as Nigeria as well, which I think has considerable potential as a kind of considerable youthful potential. I think in terms of the roles that there's there's naturally issues in terms of Russia making certain certain military and defence investments, especially in African member states. So it's not necessarily easy. I think that the UK will have to work on that over time. I think the critical point to make is that there needs to be a sort of there needs to be a cultural shift.
I think that there is, as I said, that foreign policy tendency of looking at the Commonwealth as irrelevant. But I don't think we should give up and say, oh, because China have gained such a foothold here. And then Russia made certain developments in terms of those military and defence investments. I think that what we need to do is, in response to that, as a counterbalance, we do need to look to deepen defence and security cooperation over time. Now, that won't happen overnight, but I think that we should work towards that, and I think that critically, we should do that with countries which are traditionally been quite strong diplomatic allies within the Commonwealth.
I think Australia definitely has a role to play in that, and I think it's also in Australian national interest, especially with China looking to make those developments in terms of trying to contribute towards the social institutional development of Pacific island countries. I think recently he's tried to interact with Fiji. There was a policing agreement there with Fiji. I think Fiji's taken a step back from that. But there is that history, obviously, with China having that pact with the Solomon Islands in those critical areas.
So I think that the key is, is for the UK to work with like minded allies within the Commonwealth to try and make the Commonwealth, over time, be a counterbalance towards growing Chinese and Russian involvement and influence within the international system.
10:38
John Whittingdale
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John Whittingdale
Thank you. And can I just ask, we've talked about whether or not we think the Commonwealth matters, but what do you think is the view of the rest of the Commonwealth? Do they regard it as important? Because obviously there are some of the leading heads of the leading members didn't actually turn up at the last meeting.
10:38
10:38
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I think it really depends. Looking specifically at the Caribbean, I think the Commonwealth can be a real opportunity for states to mobilise around sort of vulnerable island states, climate, particularly around adaptation and resilience. And it can be a forum for building cooperation and coalitions outside of Russia, US and Chinese influence. But I think I think it really depends. And I think there's a challenge there to ensure that it continues to be a useful forum.
As I said, I think climate is one issue given the timing of programme and then and then Cop 31, where it can be a really useful point of international cooperation, particularly for small and vulnerable states in the Caribbean.
As I said, I think climate is one issue given the timing of programme and then and then Cop 31, where it can be a really useful point of international cooperation, particularly for small and vulnerable states in the Caribbean.
10:39
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I'll just add a quick point. I think the Chagos Islands is very relevant in this sense, and I do think that that was almost a result of the UK, in my view, failing to nurture, build and pay attention to quite important relationships within the Commonwealth. And I think that that's that's very much a gift for countries such as China and Russia. So I think the UK, I think that I think that the view that I agree, I think China and Russia have made certain developments in terms of gaining a foothold, especially in certain public policy areas and in relation to other Commonwealth member countries.
But I think the solution to that is not for the UK to roll back, but actually lean in more in terms of the Commonwealth seeing it as a key pillar in terms of its foreign policy interests and trying, over time, cultivate an environment within the Commonwealth which acts as a counterbalance to those growing forms of Chinese and Russian influence in the international system.
But I think the solution to that is not for the UK to roll back, but actually lean in more in terms of the Commonwealth seeing it as a key pillar in terms of its foreign policy interests and trying, over time, cultivate an environment within the Commonwealth which acts as a counterbalance to those growing forms of Chinese and Russian influence in the international system.
10:40
10:40
Edward Morello
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Edward Morello
Thank you, chair. I guess I just want to expand a little bit on the chair's question there, because what I'm interested in is, is what is how relevant is the Commonwealth to the members given, given how many members there are, how different all of those countries are? Doctor Carrington, you've identified that there are shared interests around climate with some countries. There are shared interests around security in in the Caribbean. Doctor Hassan mentioned that there are some states where we might deepen our military cooperation with.
But in every instance, you're you're dividing up the Commonwealth based on our particular interests on a particular thing or where we have shared values. So given that those are all effectively separate multilateral groups that you're talking about setting up. So how relevant is the Commonwealth as a collective? Given what you've already said, I'll let either of you pick that up.
But in every instance, you're you're dividing up the Commonwealth based on our particular interests on a particular thing or where we have shared values. So given that those are all effectively separate multilateral groups that you're talking about setting up. So how relevant is the Commonwealth as a collective? Given what you've already said, I'll let either of you pick that up.
10:41
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Well, I think there's I think there's certain areas which it is easier to cultivate collaboration and deepening that cooperation across Commonwealth member states. I think that in terms of increasing its relevance, I think in a sense, you have to look at the key member states. And I'd take India, for example. I think that when you look at healthcare, for example, when you look at India in particular, there's still very significant problems in terms of the lack of healthcare infrastructure in certain parts of India, especially in poorer eastern states.
So I think the areas that the Commonwealth could really build on is disease prevention and control. I think that would be a critical area where cooperation can be deepened. I think that naturally, female economic empowerment is is very important pillar of the economic development strategy of many developing countries. So I think that the UK can definitely contribute towards that in terms of making that an important goal for the Commonwealth. I think that when you look at defence and security, as I said before, I still think that, for example, the Venezuelan aggression towards Guyana, I think that you have to you have to be very selective where there's very realistic prospects of defence and security cooperation.
But I think I very much of the view that without any attempts to deepen cooperation in those , you say, more controversial areas, I just don't see the Commonwealth really commanding that sort of relevance and respect within the international system, unless it branches out those more traditional areas of education, trade and investment. Now, that's not undermining the importance of trade and investment. I think the Commonwealth advantage should be built upon. I think having that asset of a shared official language, those common legal systems and familiar administrative frameworks, I think that's something to really build on.
I think that's a that's a golden aspect of the Commonwealth. But I think without that, defence and security will be very difficult for it to have that relevance. I
So I think the areas that the Commonwealth could really build on is disease prevention and control. I think that would be a critical area where cooperation can be deepened. I think that naturally, female economic empowerment is is very important pillar of the economic development strategy of many developing countries. So I think that the UK can definitely contribute towards that in terms of making that an important goal for the Commonwealth. I think that when you look at defence and security, as I said before, I still think that, for example, the Venezuelan aggression towards Guyana, I think that you have to you have to be very selective where there's very realistic prospects of defence and security cooperation.
But I think I very much of the view that without any attempts to deepen cooperation in those , you say, more controversial areas, I just don't see the Commonwealth really commanding that sort of relevance and respect within the international system, unless it branches out those more traditional areas of education, trade and investment. Now, that's not undermining the importance of trade and investment. I think the Commonwealth advantage should be built upon. I think having that asset of a shared official language, those common legal systems and familiar administrative frameworks, I think that's something to really build on.
I think that's a that's a golden aspect of the Commonwealth. But I think without that, defence and security will be very difficult for it to have that relevance. I
10:43
Edward Morello
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Edward Morello
guess. I guess the UK has a certain sort of romantic attachment to the idea of the Commonwealth. What I'm trying to understand is whether or not the Commonwealth has the same attachment. If there are areas where we can deepen relationships and or work on particular issues, I get that. But how how relevant is the Commonwealth as a collective to its members?
10:43
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think I think that question is , depending on whether you're talking about national governments or you're talking about the publics across the Commonwealth. So if the five country polling I did for the One family report on behalf of Policy Exchange, there was a very interesting item there. It asked survey respondents, do you believe the UK does more good than harm in the world? The lowest level of approval was among the UK public. Where it was especially high was among the Indian and Nigerian public.
So I think there's a great deal of goodwill and affection towards the UK among Commonwealth publics, and I think that's actually if you talk about soft power, that's a that's an amazing asset to have, in my view. Now, of course, there's a difference between what could be the opinion of the government of the day in those countries and the broader population. But I think that in a sense, in my view, there's been a growing culture of self-flagellation in the UK, where we have a lack of confidence in what we've contributed to the world in terms of human advancement and also just in general, in terms of our moral obligations.
I think we fare quite well on an international level, and I think we need to make the most of that goodwill and affection that does exist in India and Nigeria have two huge populations, very important populations as well, in the context of the strategic future of the Commonwealth. And I think the UK should build on that and work towards really making the most of that, maximising the potential of that goodwill.
So I think there's a great deal of goodwill and affection towards the UK among Commonwealth publics, and I think that's actually if you talk about soft power, that's a that's an amazing asset to have, in my view. Now, of course, there's a difference between what could be the opinion of the government of the day in those countries and the broader population. But I think that in a sense, in my view, there's been a growing culture of self-flagellation in the UK, where we have a lack of confidence in what we've contributed to the world in terms of human advancement and also just in general, in terms of our moral obligations.
I think we fare quite well on an international level, and I think we need to make the most of that goodwill and affection that does exist in India and Nigeria have two huge populations, very important populations as well, in the context of the strategic future of the Commonwealth. And I think the UK should build on that and work towards really making the most of that, maximising the potential of that goodwill.
10:45
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I just add, I'd agree . And also you mentioned particularly those issues around there being kind of unifying issues for particular regions or particular countries. But I think that's the case with any major international organisation. Same with the United Nations, say, and I think with the Commonwealth , there are opportunities for particular regions or particular groups of countries to unify around key issues, to build coalitions. And with any major issue, there's always going to be those those tensions with with other major powers or say on climate, perhaps with countries that are less on board with, say, supporting vulnerable states on climate resilience.
But I do think that the Commonwealth has a degree of uniqueness in the fact of not having, say, Russia, the US and China within the Commonwealth. So it offers a kind of unique forum in terms of that sense of kind of attachment, perhaps that or a particular fondness that the UK might have for the Commonwealth or the sense of the Commonwealth. I think in terms of the Commonwealth moving forwards, it's kind of crucial for perhaps a shift in mindset around that to not focus on the sense of kind of a fondness for the Commonwealth and that shared history.
I think that often can then lead into kind of colonial dynamics, and to see it as a kind of useful forum moving forward, perhaps separate from that, that history.
But I do think that the Commonwealth has a degree of uniqueness in the fact of not having, say, Russia, the US and China within the Commonwealth. So it offers a kind of unique forum in terms of that sense of kind of attachment, perhaps that or a particular fondness that the UK might have for the Commonwealth or the sense of the Commonwealth. I think in terms of the Commonwealth moving forwards, it's kind of crucial for perhaps a shift in mindset around that to not focus on the sense of kind of a fondness for the Commonwealth and that shared history.
I think that often can then lead into kind of colonial dynamics, and to see it as a kind of useful forum moving forward, perhaps separate from that, that history.
10:46
10:46
Dan Carden
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Dan Carden
Thanks, chair. I was able to visit Guyana earlier this year with the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, and it was a fascinating visit. We met with President Ali there and my experience of visiting the Commonwealth countries that I have has always been their desire to deepen and build more strategic relationships with the UK. And I agree with everything you've said in terms of the possibilities for the relationship with the Commonwealth. I wondered, have you looked at all at perhaps how the Commonwealth could figure in a more strategic relationship around critical minerals and around diversifying supply chains for the UK?
10:47
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
No, I think that that's that's something that we did consider to degree in the report. I think that in terms of the the critical minerals. And I think one thing that we really talked about is leveraging the blue economy, blue economic instruments, so that looking at blue carbon, what we want to do, I think, in my view, is that we want to support emerging markets. So small state islands. And I think helping with their development.
Now, naturally, they're very small in terms of landmass, but they have considerable ocean resources. So I think that the UK working towards that, leveraging its expertise, especially through the city and really working towards blue, blue, carbon blue bonds, coastal coastal resilience insurance as well. I think that those are the kind of things we should be really moving forward, especially if we're serious about small state island development. And I think that would bring the UK to the fore, especially we had the last Shogun was in Samoa, the forthcoming one is in Antigua and Barbuda.
I think that small island development, if the UK can really feed into that agenda, I think that will heighten its reputation within the Commonwealth for sure.
Now, naturally, they're very small in terms of landmass, but they have considerable ocean resources. So I think that the UK working towards that, leveraging its expertise, especially through the city and really working towards blue, blue, carbon blue bonds, coastal coastal resilience insurance as well. I think that those are the kind of things we should be really moving forward, especially if we're serious about small state island development. And I think that would bring the UK to the fore, especially we had the last Shogun was in Samoa, the forthcoming one is in Antigua and Barbuda.
I think that small island development, if the UK can really feed into that agenda, I think that will heighten its reputation within the Commonwealth for sure.
10:48
10:48
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I don't think so at all. I think I think that I think I think that that in my view, there's a situation there that the is seen as an outdated, moribund organisation. I think that more generally I don't think that's specific to the Fcdo. I think many of our public institutions, they see it as some sort of outdated imperial relic. I look at the Commonwealth very differently. I think that that that smooth transition, which was spearheaded by her late majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, from having the sort of imperial control to a voluntary association of nations.
I think it really was one of her finest achievements, in my view. And I think that's something that we shouldn't neglect. And I think the reality is that we've attracted new member states such as Togo and Gabon, former parts of the French colony. I think that's a real feather in our cap, if I'm being absolutely honest. And I think the fact that we have Mozambique already in the Commonwealth, the former Portuguese colony, Rwanda, former Belgian colony, I think that really shows in a way that outside of former parts of British Empire, there is an admiration for the UK in that after decolonisation, I think the UK, more than any other European former colonial power, has really made an effort to rebuild those relationships with former parts of its own empire, and I think that that's something we should build on.
And I think that's something that in itself you talk about soft power. I think that that that that's a critical element of that. But I know that other people have a very different view, seeing it as some kind of outdated imperial relic. But that's something I completely disagree with.
I think it really was one of her finest achievements, in my view. And I think that's something that we shouldn't neglect. And I think the reality is that we've attracted new member states such as Togo and Gabon, former parts of the French colony. I think that's a real feather in our cap, if I'm being absolutely honest. And I think the fact that we have Mozambique already in the Commonwealth, the former Portuguese colony, Rwanda, former Belgian colony, I think that really shows in a way that outside of former parts of British Empire, there is an admiration for the UK in that after decolonisation, I think the UK, more than any other European former colonial power, has really made an effort to rebuild those relationships with former parts of its own empire, and I think that that's something we should build on.
And I think that's something that in itself you talk about soft power. I think that that that that's a critical element of that. But I know that other people have a very different view, seeing it as some kind of outdated imperial relic. But that's something I completely disagree with.
10:50
10:50
10:50
10:50
Abtisam Mohamed
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Abtisam Mohamed
Thank you, chair. So I want to talk about human rights violations. I know that Commonwealth members sign up to the charter and various declarations, but many members have been suspended or removed as a result of violations in their countries. Do you think that the Commonwealth takes it seriously or is it superficial in nature? I'll come to you first, Doctor Carrington.
10:50
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, I think it's a really good question. I think it reveals one of the real issues, not just within the Commonwealth but within international organizations generally. You know, it can be it can be a great opportunity to to build consensus around issues. But when it comes to enforcement, particularly around human rights and, and democracy, there can it kind of reveals the weakness of the Commonwealth. I think from a UK perspective, it's really important to kind of have a consistent approach to look at how it can support and the Commonwealth can support earlier monitoring around democracy, elections, human rights issues, earlier intervention, and also look at kind of more clear follow ups when there are, say, human rights violations.
But it is I think there's always with international organizations, there's always that issue of kind of around enforcement that that reveals a kind of a flaw in those kind of organizations.
But it is I think there's always with international organizations, there's always that issue of kind of around enforcement that that reveals a kind of a flaw in those kind of organizations.
10:51
10:51
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Well, I think there's definitely some enforcement issues there. I think the naturally being in a court, being in an association which is incredibly diverse, I think I think 56 member states now, there will be cases where we feel that there are human rights issues across a number of those member countries, but I think that expulsion is very much a last resort. I think that engaging with those countries in terms of really flagging those issues. But I think that has to be done in a in a spirit of, well, in the spirit of the Commonwealth Charter, which is ultimately that the members are free and equal nations.
So I think that adopting a sort of heavy handed approach there wouldn't necessarily work either. I think more than anything that could be alienating. So it's a very difficult balance to strike. I think that the UK would be best served looking at those issues, especially looking at female empowerment, I think across member states. I think that would be helpful, especially in terms of the economic development of lesser developed member states. I think there are issues in certain member countries in terms of the persecution of religious minorities, and the UK shouldn't should be a friendly, critical friend when it comes to those issues.
I think that's been a concern. I think even with even when it comes to India, if I'm being perfectly honest. But I think, again, it's a very difficult balance to strike because I think without a strong strategic partnership with India, I don't think the Commonwealth can move forward very much. So I think that in terms of the UK's position on some of those human rights violations, I think flagrant violations, I think they do need to be flagged.
But I think there has to be a sense that there are countries, they have certain local cultural customs. I think obviously their perception of human rights might be very different to the sort of liberal Western understanding of human rights. So I think that is very difficult in terms of really striking a sort of uniform view on all human rights issues. I think the one area where the UK could really work on through the Commonwealth Observer groups is really create more robust procedures over time in terms of the monitoring of elections.
So the democratic integrity of those member states, I think that's where you could find the UK exerting a decent level of influence. But I think in terms of flagging every single human rights issues over 56 member countries, which have very different cultural, social environments. I think that that is that bit more difficult.
So I think that adopting a sort of heavy handed approach there wouldn't necessarily work either. I think more than anything that could be alienating. So it's a very difficult balance to strike. I think that the UK would be best served looking at those issues, especially looking at female empowerment, I think across member states. I think that would be helpful, especially in terms of the economic development of lesser developed member states. I think there are issues in certain member countries in terms of the persecution of religious minorities, and the UK shouldn't should be a friendly, critical friend when it comes to those issues.
I think that's been a concern. I think even with even when it comes to India, if I'm being perfectly honest. But I think, again, it's a very difficult balance to strike because I think without a strong strategic partnership with India, I don't think the Commonwealth can move forward very much. So I think that in terms of the UK's position on some of those human rights violations, I think flagrant violations, I think they do need to be flagged.
But I think there has to be a sense that there are countries, they have certain local cultural customs. I think obviously their perception of human rights might be very different to the sort of liberal Western understanding of human rights. So I think that is very difficult in terms of really striking a sort of uniform view on all human rights issues. I think the one area where the UK could really work on through the Commonwealth Observer groups is really create more robust procedures over time in terms of the monitoring of elections.
So the democratic integrity of those member states, I think that's where you could find the UK exerting a decent level of influence. But I think in terms of flagging every single human rights issues over 56 member countries, which have very different cultural, social environments. I think that that is that bit more difficult.
10:54
Abtisam Mohamed
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Abtisam Mohamed
It's it's a challenge. It's a challenge just coming on to sort of specific cases. So if a country is deemed to be more acceptable, that they have allegedly met the requirements to be readmitted, as in the case of Zimbabwe, what do you think the procedure should be? There should be should they be readmitted quite readily, or should caveats be in place?
10:54
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I think with the with the case of Zimbabwe, I think the UK should support the sort of long term readmission if conditions are met. Looking specifically at the Commonwealth Charter, making sure that that all conditions around elections, democracy are met. And I think more broadly, not just with Readmitting, but also with admitting new states. I think if states can show that they they do meet those requirements, then the UK should should support them being admitted or readmitted.
10:55
Abtisam Mohamed
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Abtisam Mohamed
Thank you. And doctor, if I can use another sort of example or a case study in question, I often am contacted quite frequently by constituents in relation to the incarceration of Imran Khan in Pakistan. Do you feel that the Commonwealth could play a stronger role in relation to. I mean, you've referenced there the importance of democracy and democratic procedures, that the Commonwealth could have a stronger position in relation to the incarceration of Imran Khan, or is that something that you think it should perhaps stay away from?
10:55
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think I think that there is potential for if the UK government feels passionate enough about that particular case, I would maybe stay away from certain individual cases. Just look at more broadly, what is the overall human rights environment in in certain member states and across the Commonwealth more generally, I think there'll be many people who would consider that particular case to be a grave injustice. And I think that is attracted a great deal of interest within the British Pakistani population here in the UK.
But I think that if if the argument is, should the UK try and strike alliances across the Commonwealth and work against or ultimately work towards the release of Imran Khan, I'm not sure that the Commonwealth is necessarily the right arena for that. And I think that over time, again, if if we were to adopt that kind of approach, that could be incredibly alienating for Pakistan as well. And that's someone who I think overall, I think that that is a case where there's very serious issues there in terms of the imprisonment of Imran Khan.
But I think at the same time, if the UK was to sort of adopt approach and this band together with lots of other countries to try and exert pressure on Pakistan to release him from his imprisonment, I just wonder whether that would actually do more harm than good over time, especially in terms of Pakistan's place in the Commonwealth.
But I think that if if the argument is, should the UK try and strike alliances across the Commonwealth and work against or ultimately work towards the release of Imran Khan, I'm not sure that the Commonwealth is necessarily the right arena for that. And I think that over time, again, if if we were to adopt that kind of approach, that could be incredibly alienating for Pakistan as well. And that's someone who I think overall, I think that that is a case where there's very serious issues there in terms of the imprisonment of Imran Khan.
But I think at the same time, if the UK was to sort of adopt approach and this band together with lots of other countries to try and exert pressure on Pakistan to release him from his imprisonment, I just wonder whether that would actually do more harm than good over time, especially in terms of Pakistan's place in the Commonwealth.
10:57
10:57
10:57
Speaker 4
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Speaker 4
Thank you very much, chair. I've got some questions about four different areas. So some quick more quick fire questions probably, but just for all of them to try and ascertain how successful the Commonwealth has been and particularly CHOGM is in advancing this, should it be in the leader's declaration. So if you were writing the leader's declaration, should should these issues be in them? But then also what's what's the what's the strength of of the Commonwealth, but in particularly the CHOGM meeting to get action on them? The four areas to give you a heads up are violence against women and girls, sustainable finance, climate finance and marine protection.
So just taking the first one of those violence against women and girls, it's been a subject of previous albums. It's a it's a focus for the Commonwealth. But has it been at all effective in in tackling some real differences between the countries, but also raising raising the awareness and action on that issue.
So just taking the first one of those violence against women and girls, it's been a subject of previous albums. It's a it's a focus for the Commonwealth. But has it been at all effective in in tackling some real differences between the countries, but also raising raising the awareness and action on that issue.
10:58
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think that in terms of violence against women and girls, I think that's definitely something that the Commonwealth has traditionally focused on a great deal. I think in terms of action, again, it is difficult to achieve certain goals across the board within the Commonwealth. But I think that there's been certain improvements. I think that in terms of the UK's focus on sustainable finance and climate finance, I think these are very important areas. To me, the reality is that the Commonwealth is an international association which is not vested with considerable financial resources.
But the argument that I've made in the One Family report for Policy Exchange is that it should be a powerful convening agent. So ultimately, what the Commonwealth should do here in terms of these areas, especially with finance related areas, is act as a switchboard. And ultimately, if member states want to access sustainable finance or climate finance, the reality is that can be drawn from some kind of commonwealth centralized part. But what the Commonwealth can do is offer that top tier technical guidance in terms of connecting member states with certain organizations and international associations, which do have those financial pots available.
One could be the World Health Organization, for example. So I think that being a sort of gold standard example of being a convening international asset, I think that is the future of the Commonwealth. I think the reality of it having a budget which is not necessarily large, means it needs to lean more into that direction. I think there's been considerable focus on climate finance within the Commonwealth. I think naturally , using that convening potential, it has to do more because I think if we're looking at small state island development, much of that will be ultimately down to climate resilience of those member countries.
I was just what was the fourth theme? If you.
But the argument that I've made in the One Family report for Policy Exchange is that it should be a powerful convening agent. So ultimately, what the Commonwealth should do here in terms of these areas, especially with finance related areas, is act as a switchboard. And ultimately, if member states want to access sustainable finance or climate finance, the reality is that can be drawn from some kind of commonwealth centralized part. But what the Commonwealth can do is offer that top tier technical guidance in terms of connecting member states with certain organizations and international associations, which do have those financial pots available.
One could be the World Health Organization, for example. So I think that being a sort of gold standard example of being a convening international asset, I think that is the future of the Commonwealth. I think the reality of it having a budget which is not necessarily large, means it needs to lean more into that direction. I think there's been considerable focus on climate finance within the Commonwealth. I think naturally , using that convening potential, it has to do more because I think if we're looking at small state island development, much of that will be ultimately down to climate resilience of those member countries.
I was just what was the fourth theme? If you.
10:59
Speaker 4
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Speaker 4
Just I'll just come on to that now, actually. So maybe. And also, Doctor Carrington, you mentioned climate as being the focus and it absolutely is. And especially being held on the small islands as well. So there were in the last declaration, there was the I, a I, a Commonwealth Ocean declaration. And I don't know if you can give some assessment if that has been useful and what the likelihood of being further and better marine protection, especially as we've just about to have, as you said, Cop 31 but also the Marine Diversity World Conference in Belgium, which will be later that month.
And also we've got the first Marine Corp coming up. So in the context of those, will the declaration in AGM further that and also, has it been a successful declaration, part of the declaration last time?
And also we've got the first Marine Corp coming up. So in the context of those, will the declaration in AGM further that and also, has it been a successful declaration, part of the declaration last time?
11:00
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, thanks. I think thinking about across all four areas, I think the Commonwealth is a really good forum for tackling and building coalitions around those four four areas on climate issues and on violence towards women and girls. I wouldn't comment specifically on kind of the success of previous actions, but I think given that CHOGM is going to be held in Antigua and Barbuda, I think kind of the blue economy, marine conservation is going to be one of the really key issues.
Again, feeding into Cop. There's a real opportunity there to to sort of build a consensus. But I think one of the key things will be, is it a case of kind of discussions, building a kind of general consensus, but nothing that forms direct action? And I think a real challenge, particularly around climate issues, will be to develop something that's kind of creates direct action rather than just further discussion.
Again, feeding into Cop. There's a real opportunity there to to sort of build a consensus. But I think one of the key things will be, is it a case of kind of discussions, building a kind of general consensus, but nothing that forms direct action? And I think a real challenge, particularly around climate issues, will be to develop something that's kind of creates direct action rather than just further discussion.
11:01
11:02
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, I think it could be I think that would be really crucial. As I said, it has been done in the past. You look at the timing in 2015 of CHOGM in Malta and then Cop21 in Paris. That worked really well in terms of getting direct action on climate issues. So something like that could be, could be, yeah, could be something that happens. Definitely.
11:02
11:02
Alex Ballinger
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Alex Ballinger
Thank you. I wanted to ask about reparations. The UK government made it quite clear ahead of CHOGM in 2024 that reparations were off the table, which I must say is a position I probably agree with as well. How did that land with Commonwealth members, and is there a way of discussing reparations with them or the legacy of slavery, say, when UK has such a clear position and many Commonwealth neighbours have the have the opposite position? Maybe start with you, doctor.
11:03
11:03
11:03
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
By the UK. I think maintaining the position in Samoa of sort of not discussing anything. No apology, no movement there. I think there needs to be a shift to a kind of listening position. If you look at the Caricom ten point plan on reparations, this is a really broad range of issues in terms of the way that the legacies of slavery have impacted the Caribbean. The UK government could work across various issues on public health, education, debt cancellation, and indeed on climate as well, and show that it is listening to the Caribbean.
There's certainly momentum been built up this year. So the conference, the meeting in June in Accra between African and Caribbean governments, really built a kind of global framework around Reparatory justice. Then you had the Caricom delegation in London in July. There's been a new manifesto that they've put out. And again, that manifesto has included climate reparations. So so that's then been kind of included in the conversation around Reparatory justice.
And of course, yesterday you had the Jamaican government putting the petition to the king on three questions to the Privy Council, specifically around the legality of issues relating to slavery in Jamaica. So there's a real momentum built up, and there's been greater cooperation between African and Caribbean countries. So I don't think it's something that the UK can just switch off from and ignore. I'd also say that if you look at the recent UK Caribbean discussions in March, there was a degree of more openness in the UK position.
The UK committed to digitizing funding and supporting the digitization of documents relating to transatlantic slavery. So I think there's things like that, that the UK can show a kind of openness to to having that conversation.
There's certainly momentum been built up this year. So the conference, the meeting in June in Accra between African and Caribbean governments, really built a kind of global framework around Reparatory justice. Then you had the Caricom delegation in London in July. There's been a new manifesto that they've put out. And again, that manifesto has included climate reparations. So so that's then been kind of included in the conversation around Reparatory justice.
And of course, yesterday you had the Jamaican government putting the petition to the king on three questions to the Privy Council, specifically around the legality of issues relating to slavery in Jamaica. So there's a real momentum built up, and there's been greater cooperation between African and Caribbean countries. So I don't think it's something that the UK can just switch off from and ignore. I'd also say that if you look at the recent UK Caribbean discussions in March, there was a degree of more openness in the UK position.
The UK committed to digitizing funding and supporting the digitization of documents relating to transatlantic slavery. So I think there's things like that, that the UK can show a kind of openness to to having that conversation.
11:05
Alex Ballinger
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Alex Ballinger
I suppose there's a difference between openness to working on the history documents, health programmes that we might, might have been doing anyway through our through our aid programmes and debt cancellation and large amounts of reparations. Do you think it's more about reframing what we're doing, or would the UK have to go? And I'll come to you after this. Would the UK have to go a lot further with financial commitments to to kind of satisfy some of these demands.
11:06
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Long term? I would say yes. But I think if you're talking more broadly about engagement in organisations like the Commonwealth, engaging with Caribbean governments, and you look at the sort of narrative behind discussions around reparations, it's all about a sort of shift in power and shift in perspective. And I think, again, if the UK is coming from it, from a position of power and leadership, I think that needs to shift to one of partnership and cooperation.
11:06
11:06
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
Well, I think I'll have to offer a slightly different view there. I think that if we really want to get into the nitty gritty of it in terms of slavery, then we look at the very origins of the supply chain. I think there's no doubt there were incredibly wealthy and powerful African kingdoms who which benefited a great deal from the slave trade. I find it very peculiar that we have governments such as Ghana and Nigeria being as pro reparations as they are, considering the Ashanti and Yoruba elites in modern day Ghana and Nigeria respectively benefited a great deal in terms of slave trading operations.
I think there's no doubt that the UK in its imperial era, it was, it was, it was it was a major player in the transatlantic slave trade. It was also responsible for atrocities such as the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre in Amritsar. In Punjab. Also, there was a very brutal crackdown of the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya. But the truth is we have to provide a broader picture here. And the reality is that the UK also played a pioneering humanitarian role in suppressing the slave trade at considerable human and financial cost, especially to the Royal Navy's West Africa Squadron.
And I think that you have to look at that particular era where you had the Royal Navy competing with slave ships, which are far more sophisticated, far more dynamic and well resourced. Now, the question is, some people might argue whether reparations for the fallen sailors who made the ultimate sacrifice in suppressing the slave trade. I think that reducing this debate on slavery and reparations, I think it doesn't serve the UK very well. I think the UK should be very firm that in the spirit of equality and partnership, we're very willing to play a leadership role in terms of deepening cooperation, in terms of educational development, female economic empowerment really work towards building the Commonwealth advantage in terms of trade and investment.
Also looking at environmental sustainability, I think the one point made there in terms of climate finance, I think the UK could play a critical role in mobilising private capital in terms of helping countries towards their green energy transition. So we could do that through the city, also cooperating with major financial centres across the Commonwealth, especially Mumbai and India, Lagos and Nigeria and also Singapore. Singapore doesn't get talked about very much at all when it comes to these matters of the financial potential of the Commonwealth, which which I find quite baffling.
But I think that the debate on reparations, I think, in my view, if I'm being honest, I think some of the cases ultimately designed to as a form of resentment, almost in a way of bankrupting the UK. So I don't I don't buy into these arguments at all. I think that what the Commonwealth should be, instead of looking so much in the past, but people really do want to look in the past and would obviously consider the role of those wealthy and powerful African kingdoms, whether it's the Yoruba elites, the Santali, also the kings of Dahomey in current day Benin.
I mean, it would be foolish for anyone to suggest that Benin now should or should pay for any form of reparations in terms of the kingdom's role in the slave trade. So I think that what I'd really be supportive is a future oriented commonwealth, which ultimately operates in the spirit of equality and partnership, when the UK should remain very firm in terms of that view.
I think there's no doubt that the UK in its imperial era, it was, it was, it was it was a major player in the transatlantic slave trade. It was also responsible for atrocities such as the 1919 Jallianwala Bagh massacre in Amritsar. In Punjab. Also, there was a very brutal crackdown of the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya. But the truth is we have to provide a broader picture here. And the reality is that the UK also played a pioneering humanitarian role in suppressing the slave trade at considerable human and financial cost, especially to the Royal Navy's West Africa Squadron.
And I think that you have to look at that particular era where you had the Royal Navy competing with slave ships, which are far more sophisticated, far more dynamic and well resourced. Now, the question is, some people might argue whether reparations for the fallen sailors who made the ultimate sacrifice in suppressing the slave trade. I think that reducing this debate on slavery and reparations, I think it doesn't serve the UK very well. I think the UK should be very firm that in the spirit of equality and partnership, we're very willing to play a leadership role in terms of deepening cooperation, in terms of educational development, female economic empowerment really work towards building the Commonwealth advantage in terms of trade and investment.
Also looking at environmental sustainability, I think the one point made there in terms of climate finance, I think the UK could play a critical role in mobilising private capital in terms of helping countries towards their green energy transition. So we could do that through the city, also cooperating with major financial centres across the Commonwealth, especially Mumbai and India, Lagos and Nigeria and also Singapore. Singapore doesn't get talked about very much at all when it comes to these matters of the financial potential of the Commonwealth, which which I find quite baffling.
But I think that the debate on reparations, I think, in my view, if I'm being honest, I think some of the cases ultimately designed to as a form of resentment, almost in a way of bankrupting the UK. So I don't I don't buy into these arguments at all. I think that what the Commonwealth should be, instead of looking so much in the past, but people really do want to look in the past and would obviously consider the role of those wealthy and powerful African kingdoms, whether it's the Yoruba elites, the Santali, also the kings of Dahomey in current day Benin.
I mean, it would be foolish for anyone to suggest that Benin now should or should pay for any form of reparations in terms of the kingdom's role in the slave trade. So I think that what I'd really be supportive is a future oriented commonwealth, which ultimately operates in the spirit of equality and partnership, when the UK should remain very firm in terms of that view.
11:09
11:09
John Whittingdale
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John Whittingdale
I'm just following up on that because you you clearly have slightly different views on this subject. The last CHOGM, I mean, was to some extent dominated by discussion of this, and it led to this communique at the end, which talked about everybody agrees the time has come for meaningful, truthful and respectful conversation. I mean, has that actually happened? Has there been any progress and is there a risk that we're just going to have a repetition of old argument over again at this year's Chogyam?
11:10
11:10
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
I think there is a risk of that. And I think I think that's why I would say in terms of reparations, the UK needs to shift that position and have a more kind of listening approach. I think also a sort of wider understanding can be quite useful feeding into these conversations, not just in terms of reparations, but around the climate as well. So it's often mentioned that Caribbean countries, small island states in the region are among the most vulnerable globally to extreme weather events and climate related loss and damage.
And a crucial aspect of that is that it has been exacerbated by the experience of plantation slavery in the region. For example, in terms of the cutting down of sustainable forests and replacing it with monoculture, another legacy is that populations were displaced and concentrated in coastal areas. So then whenever you do have an extreme weather event, loss and damage is much higher. So I think a sort of factoring in these histories is important for really understanding present day challenges.
But but to circle back to your question, I think it is a real issue, and there needs to be a shift in approach for it, not just to be a replay of Samoa two years ago.
And a crucial aspect of that is that it has been exacerbated by the experience of plantation slavery in the region. For example, in terms of the cutting down of sustainable forests and replacing it with monoculture, another legacy is that populations were displaced and concentrated in coastal areas. So then whenever you do have an extreme weather event, loss and damage is much higher. So I think a sort of factoring in these histories is important for really understanding present day challenges.
But but to circle back to your question, I think it is a real issue, and there needs to be a shift in approach for it, not just to be a replay of Samoa two years ago.
11:12
11:12
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think before moving beyond, I think the UK should lean in confidently in those discussions in terms of its own role in ultimately suppressing the slave trade and in terms of being the heart of abolitionist campaigning at the global level in that particular era. So I'm not saying that the UK should ignore these debates, which has put them aside. I think that they need to engage with it very critically, but have that self-confidence to say, well, actually, we played a pioneering humanitarian role in suppressing the slave trade.
We acknowledge the atrocities which were committed under the British Empire and the fact that it was a major player in terms of slave trading operations, but also acknowledged that ultimately it did play a role in terms of really trying to ultimately suppress the slave trade. And I think that, as I said before, the Royal Navy's West Africa Squadron made a considerable financial and human sacrifice towards that. But I think that very clearly, you don't want to antagonize fellow member countries within the Commonwealth, but I think the reality is that there were African kingdoms, which benefited a great deal at the very origins of the supply chain.
So I think that Ghana also brought forward a United Nations General Assembly resolution on this matter of reparations as well, which I find quite baffling. I think that in some ways it is a deflection tactic of certain countries in terms of trying to take attention away from their own role in slave trade activities. And I think that the reality is here, what we should be promoting is the Commonwealth, which is very which is future oriented.
I think that's the key here in terms of free and equal nations. I also make the point that I think that the UK caves on reparations. It will lose respect in other parts of the Commonwealth. I'm not sure that many Indians will in many, much of the Indian citizens who think that Britain has done more good than harm in the world and in terms of humankind, will find it very impressive that the UK has caved on reparations, if truth be told.
So of course, there is obviously an appetite in terms of really having this a critical pillar of the Commonwealth agenda, but I do see it as a major distraction.
We acknowledge the atrocities which were committed under the British Empire and the fact that it was a major player in terms of slave trading operations, but also acknowledged that ultimately it did play a role in terms of really trying to ultimately suppress the slave trade. And I think that, as I said before, the Royal Navy's West Africa Squadron made a considerable financial and human sacrifice towards that. But I think that very clearly, you don't want to antagonize fellow member countries within the Commonwealth, but I think the reality is that there were African kingdoms, which benefited a great deal at the very origins of the supply chain.
So I think that Ghana also brought forward a United Nations General Assembly resolution on this matter of reparations as well, which I find quite baffling. I think that in some ways it is a deflection tactic of certain countries in terms of trying to take attention away from their own role in slave trade activities. And I think that the reality is here, what we should be promoting is the Commonwealth, which is very which is future oriented.
I think that's the key here in terms of free and equal nations. I also make the point that I think that the UK caves on reparations. It will lose respect in other parts of the Commonwealth. I'm not sure that many Indians will in many, much of the Indian citizens who think that Britain has done more good than harm in the world and in terms of humankind, will find it very impressive that the UK has caved on reparations, if truth be told.
So of course, there is obviously an appetite in terms of really having this a critical pillar of the Commonwealth agenda, but I do see it as a major distraction.
11:14
11:14
11:14
11:14
Speaker 2
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Speaker 2
Sure, I think I think key focus should be around some of the sort of more traditional issues where the Commonwealth has had sort of success on focusing. It's been mentioned looking at issues around women and girls, looking at education. As I mentioned, climate I think is really crucial. And also trade and investment, given that program is going to be held in Antigua and Barbuda, also a focus on vulnerable states and real support and real action around climate finance, not just further discussions, but some actual delivery.
I think reform as well as of the Commonwealth more broadly. There have been efforts over the past few years to look at that, and that's something else that the UK should support. And I guess to give just one example of a kind of potential shift in position, if we think about education, traditionally, the UK has looked at this, for example, in terms of scholarships. I think there are some examples of more recent partnerships and setups that show a kind of more modern perspective.
So for example, Glasgow University has a partnership with the University of the West Indies, and it's much more about shared courses, shared knowledge, rather than a kind of more extractive offering scholarships in the UK and in some way perhaps contributing to brain drain from countries that are offered scholarships. So I think there's an opportunity for things around education there.
I think reform as well as of the Commonwealth more broadly. There have been efforts over the past few years to look at that, and that's something else that the UK should support. And I guess to give just one example of a kind of potential shift in position, if we think about education, traditionally, the UK has looked at this, for example, in terms of scholarships. I think there are some examples of more recent partnerships and setups that show a kind of more modern perspective.
So for example, Glasgow University has a partnership with the University of the West Indies, and it's much more about shared courses, shared knowledge, rather than a kind of more extractive offering scholarships in the UK and in some way perhaps contributing to brain drain from countries that are offered scholarships. So I think there's an opportunity for things around education there.
11:16
11:16
Speaker 3
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Speaker 3
I think one thing that I really want to see is a very strong focus on deepening trade and investment relations, and I think that's actually the best way to overcome this focus on reparations, actually say we want a future oriented commonwealth. We want to build on that existing Commonwealth advantage that we have in place, and we want to deepen trade and investment relations. I think that that could be even the striking of sort of innovative partnerships.
I think one that was proposed in the Policy Exchange report. One family was striking sort of sort of partnerships based on digital finance, for example, between India, between London, Mumbai and Lagos. So sort of across different continents. I think I want to see something which is more innovative, something that really attracts attention and really shows that the Commonwealth wants to be a serious player on the international stage. Doctor Grace then mentioned the sort of traditional issues that I think deepening educational cooperation.
I would like to see more in terms of pro youth mobility schemes across the Commonwealth as well, with particular focus on girls and young women. I think that'd be that'd be very important. I think it'd be asking for too much to say that there'll be a strong focus on defence and security on this occasion in Antigua and Barbuda, but I think that's something that maybe the UK can work towards further down the line. I think environmental sustainability is a very it's one that is very important.
And I think what I said before, I think the UK, you know, especially having the technical expertise which we have in the city, I think the reality is it's not looking so much at public money and government funding, but really looking at how we can mobilise private capital in terms of helping countries towards their green energy transition and leveraging those blue economy instruments as well. Blue carbon, the coastal resilience insurance, and really looking at how we can develop small state island development.
And that will benefit the UK because of those emerging markets grow over time economically, that could present opportunities for British companies and firms as well. So I think there should be a very strong focus on trade and investment. I know that Antigua and Barbuda wants to have that strong emphasis on economic prosperity as well. So I think that would fit in quite nicely if the UK was to take that approach.
I think one that was proposed in the Policy Exchange report. One family was striking sort of sort of partnerships based on digital finance, for example, between India, between London, Mumbai and Lagos. So sort of across different continents. I think I want to see something which is more innovative, something that really attracts attention and really shows that the Commonwealth wants to be a serious player on the international stage. Doctor Grace then mentioned the sort of traditional issues that I think deepening educational cooperation.
I would like to see more in terms of pro youth mobility schemes across the Commonwealth as well, with particular focus on girls and young women. I think that'd be that'd be very important. I think it'd be asking for too much to say that there'll be a strong focus on defence and security on this occasion in Antigua and Barbuda, but I think that's something that maybe the UK can work towards further down the line. I think environmental sustainability is a very it's one that is very important.
And I think what I said before, I think the UK, you know, especially having the technical expertise which we have in the city, I think the reality is it's not looking so much at public money and government funding, but really looking at how we can mobilise private capital in terms of helping countries towards their green energy transition and leveraging those blue economy instruments as well. Blue carbon, the coastal resilience insurance, and really looking at how we can develop small state island development.
And that will benefit the UK because of those emerging markets grow over time economically, that could present opportunities for British companies and firms as well. So I think there should be a very strong focus on trade and investment. I know that Antigua and Barbuda wants to have that strong emphasis on economic prosperity as well. So I think that would fit in quite nicely if the UK was to take that approach.
11:18
11:18
11:18
John Whittingdale
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John Whittingdale
Thank you. We'll suspend for a couple of minutes while we change over order. Order, order! We had been intending to hold our second panel session this morning with officials from the Foreign and Commonwealth and Development Office to discuss the. preparations for this year's CHOGM. But since our panel members haven't appeared in time, we will have to suspend this sitting and look to pursue them through . Other means.
11:36
11:36