Grand Committee
Arrangement of Business
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)
Your Lordships know the drill already but, if there is a vote in the Chamber, I shall let noble Lords know and suspend proceedings so that we can go and vote.
Relationships and Sexuality Education (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2023
(1 year, 5 months ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Caine
That the Grand Committee do consider the Relationships and Sexuality Education (Northern Ireland) (Amendment) Regulations 2023.
Relevant document: 44th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Northern Ireland Office (Lord Caine) (Con)
My Lords, the regulations before your Lordships today seek to update the education curriculum in Northern Ireland to make age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate education on sexual and reproductive health and rights, covering contraception and access to abortion, a compulsory component of the curriculum in all grant-aided schools in Northern Ireland.
I understand and respect that there will be differing views on this issue. I also recognise the will of this Government to deliver on their statutory obligations. In passing the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019, Parliament decided to implement the recommendations made by the 2018 report of CEDAW, the UN Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women. Section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation) Act 2019, which passed with a majority in the House of Commons of 232 and one of 145 in your Lordships’ House, places a legal duty on the Secretary of State to ensure that the recommendations in paragraphs 85 and 86 of the CEDAW report are implemented in full. This is a specific and unique duty which arose from a vote in Parliament. In implementing this decision, the Government have always sought to ensure that the education provided would be similar to that already provided in England with regard to contraception and abortion, and these regulations do this.
It has been widely reported that there is a problem with how sexual education is being taught in schools in Northern Ireland. This has been highlighted by a number of recent studies, including by the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission. In its report into relationship and sexuality education in post-primary schools in Northern Ireland, it recommended that a standard level of RSE be introduced throughout all schools in Northern Ireland. That was in June this year. Separately, a survey commissioned in September 2022 by a health charity, Informing Choices NI, highlighted that 78% of MLAs agreed that there should be a standardised curriculum, regardless of a school’s ethos.
I am acutely aware that education is a devolved matter in Northern Ireland—indeed, I am looking at a former Education Minister, in the form of the noble Lord, Lord Weir of Ballyholme, right now. It has always been the Secretary of State’s and this Government’s preference that the Department of Education in Northern Ireland updates the curriculum. However, with nearly four years having passed since the executive formation Act, adolescents in Northern Ireland are still not receiving comprehensive and scientifically accurate education on sexual and reproductive health and rights. This is why, on 6 June, the Secretary of State, my right honourable friend Chris Heaton-Harris, laid these regulations in Parliament to comply with his statutory duty.
This SI has the following effects. It amends the Education (Northern Ireland) Order 2006, and the Education (Curriculum Minimum Content) Order (Northern Ireland) 2007 for adolescents, to make age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate education on sexual and reproductive health and rights, covering prevention of early pregnancy and access to abortion, a compulsory component of the curriculum. It places a duty on the Department of Education to issue guidance by 1 January 2024 on the content and delivery of the education required to be provided and places a duty on the board of governors and principal of every grant-aided school to have regard to the guidance. Also, the Department of Education is required to publish a report by 1 September 2026 on the implementation of the updated curriculum in grant-aided schools and to lay the report before the Assembly. I say in parenthesis that I trust that there will be an Assembly back in place and fully functioning well before that date.
The Government recognise the sensitivity of this topic and that some parents may wish to teach their child about sex education or to make alternative arrangements to be provided in line with their religious background or their belief about the age that their child or children should access sex education. In recognition of this, this SI also place a duty on the department to make regulations about the circumstances in which a pupil may be withdrawn from education on sexual and reproductive health and rights, or elements of that education, at the request of a parent. This follows the approach taken elsewhere in the United Kingdom.
It is important to state that this Government believe that educating adolescents on issues such as contraception, the legal status of abortion and how relevant services may be accessed should be done in a factual way that does not advocate a particular view on the moral or ethical considerations of abortion or contraception. While schools will be under a duty to teach the updated curriculum within the 2023-24 school year, there will also be a period of implementation and a need for meaningful engagement with parents and teachers. The amendments to the curriculum come into force on 1 July, in preparation for the 2023-24 academic school year. As I said, the duty on the department to issue guidance on the content and delivery of the required education will come into force on 1 January 2024.
Officials in my department, the Northern Ireland Office, will continue to work closely with those in the Department for Education. They have also been engaging with relevant educational bodies to make them aware of the changes to the curriculum. We understand that further engagement with schools, parents and young people is also very important so that they feel reassured about the content of this updated curriculum. However, it is important that children and adolescents are given the correct information so that they can make informed choices.
That summarises the changes that are introduced by these regulations, and I commend them to the Committee. I beg to move.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for introducing these regulations. Of course, the Secretary of State is not only empowered to make these regulations but legally obliged to do so. With the regulations, the Secretary of State is making a statutory duty to implement recommendation 86(d) of the report of the Committee on the Elimination of Discrimination against Women. As a result, as the Minister has told us, age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate education on sex and reproductive health and rights, covering the prevention of early pregnancy and access to abortion, will become a compulsory component of the curriculum for adolescents in Northern Ireland.
The Labour Party fully supports these measures. On these Benches, we believe that they are a critical step in ensuring that all parts of the United Kingdom meet their human rights obligations to children in this area. All adolescents deserve age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate relationship and sex education. For too long, relationship and sex education has been unavailable to adolescents in Northern Ireland. In May 2019, Sir John Gillen’s independent review into how the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland deals with serious sexual offence cases made a series of recommendations, including the need to include in the school curriculum for RSE matters such as consent, personal space, boundaries, appropriate behaviour, relationships and sexuality. In April this year, an evaluation by Northern Ireland’s Education and Training Inspectorate found that 44% of schools reported that they were delivering the topic of consent
“to a small extent or not at all”.
Earlier this month, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, as the Minister told us, published a report into its investigations of relationship and sexuality education in post-primary schools, and found that the curriculum on relationship and sexuality education does not meet human rights standards. According to the commission, most schools are not providing
“age appropriate, comprehensive, scientifically accurate education”
on access to abortion services. The investigation also found that some schools actively contribute to the shame and stigma surrounding unplanned pregnancy and abortion by making statements such as abortion is not a means of contraception and those who knowingly engage in casual sex must bear the consequences of their actions. It revealed that some schools are teaching children that homosexuality is wrong.
In England, Scotland and Wales, compulsory RSE that embeds reproductive rights and choices within the curriculum, implementing the CEDAW recommendations, is already in place. The Labour Party welcomes the fact that today’s regulations will help to ensure that the curriculum for children in Northern Ireland meets that standard too. The Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission has welcomed the new regulations and emphasised that implementation and monitoring will be critical. Schools should support and develop their capacity to deliver RSE, and the commission and other expert independent organisations have offered their expertise to help with that.
I have read with care the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report on these regulations and the debate that took place in the Commons yesterday. I of course agree with my honourable friend Peter Kyle and the Minister in that debate about the need to move forward on this matter. However, there are a few matters from this report that particularly concern us. The first is the question of consultation—or lack of it, as the committee says at paragraphs 54 to 56. The Minister needs to clarify that and address it. The second is the use of outside contractors to deliver RSE. How will the Department of Education in Northern Ireland ensure that the delivery of RSE meets the updated curriculum that these regulations set in motion? Thirdly, will the Northern Ireland Office liaise with the Department of Education to provide detailed information about implementation, which the report mentions at paragraph 43? Finally, is the Minister assured that the Department of Education will have the necessary regulations in place regarding parents withdrawing their children from RSE?
With those questions, which I am sure the Minister will be happy to address, we offer him our support.
Lord Morrow (DUP)
My Lords, I am watching the annunciator because I am due to speak on amendments in the Chamber. I know that we are expecting a vote very shortly, which will probably mean the suspension of the Committee, but noble Lords will understand if I leave and cannot participate in the whole debate, which I want to do.
These regulations are profoundly controversial in terms of their content and the procedure that attended their development. In the first instance, they suffer from a similar legitimacy deficit to that attending the abortion regulations 2020 on account of the fact that they are made by the same parent legislation, Section 9 of the 2019 Executive formation Act. At this stage, lest I forget, I want to challenge something that the Minister said. It was not so much that what he said was inaccurate, but that it was not the whole story. He said that 78% of MLAs voted for this. Yes, but it was 78% of 30; there are 90 MLAs and only 30 voted. That was not said, but it needs to be. However, for reasons that I shall explain, the legitimacy deficit attending these regulations is significantly more extensive.
Section 9 was the result of a vote in another place on 19 July 2019 the impact of which pertains exclusively to Northern Ireland, in a context when every single Northern Ireland Member of Parliament who took their seat in the democratically elected House voted against this provision. It becomes quite disturbing. We are always told by others who maybe have never been to Northern Ireland, or are very rarely there, “We know better than you lot that live there”. In other words, a provision that pertained only to Northern Ireland was imposed on Northern Ireland over the heads of its elected representatives.
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
I interrupt the noble Lord just to say that I spent the weekend before last in Ireland, just over the border, and in Enniskillen with my family. We had a lovely time.
Lord Morrow (DUP)
I am glad that the noble Baroness enjoyed Northern Ireland. Most people who come to Northern Ireland enjoy it because there is so much to do and see. Right now, we can even provide the weather, which we cannot always. I am delighted to hear that she made a visit and I hope she will come back some other time.
Although there is nothing technically wrong with using the votes of other parts of our union to impose changes on specific parts of it in violation of the wishes of its elected representatives, every time that happens there is a clear legitimacy deficit. That is why apologies were subsequently issued for the flooding of Capel Celyn in Wales and the imposition of the poll tax a year early in Scotland.
However, in the case of Section 9, the legitimacy deficit is more extensive, because the Executive formation Bill had been subject to accelerated procedure on the basis that it was about just one issue, and it was widely reported at the time that the clerks in another place advised that the amendment that resulted in Section 9 was not in scope. This meant not only that profoundly controversial legal changes were imposed on Northern Ireland but that we were not even afforded the dignity of a full debate.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Lord Duncan of Springbank) (Con)
The noble Lord, Lord Morrow, will forgive me: the bells are ringing for us. We will adjourn proceedings for 10 minutes. If noble Lords get back faster, we will restart faster.
Lord Morrow (DUP)
Thus, if you live in Northern Ireland today, you are looking not only at regulations resting on current legislation imposed over your head but at regulations preceded by no primary legislation debate at all in terms of the regulation-making power as it applied to education, relating to paragraph 86(d). The Secretary of State has not even bothered to consult on that, but I suppose that is the way things are now.
That failure to consult is particularly problematic because the NIO—Northern Ireland Office—is subject not only to the general obligation to consult on drawing up new legislation but to the specific human rights obligation flowing from Article 2 of the first protocol of the ECHR. It states:
“In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.
The failure to consult in this context is particularly egregious given that, when the abortion regulations were challenged in court on the grounds that there had been no consultation in relation to paragraphs 86(d) and 86(f), the court pointed out that the specific regulations it was considering had been subject to prior Northern Ireland Office consultation before the regulations were published; and that no regulations had been published at that time in relation to paragraphs 86(d) and 86(f). However, it said that, if the Secretary of State were to issue regulations to give effect to those paragraphs, he should consult. In paragraph 168 of its judgment, it stated:
“The court notes that the consultation which did take place in the context of the Regulations was limited to the issue of abortion but did not deal specifically with the issue of education on sexual and reproductive health or a strategy to combat gender based stereotypes as set out in paras 86(d) and (f) of the CEDAW Report. However, these paras are not referred to in the 2020 Regulations nor are they contained in the 2021 Directions under challenge. In the event that Regulations or Directions are made in the future to deal with those issues then there will be an opportunity for the Secretary of State to carry out a consultation”.
The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee has drawn the House’s special attention to these regulations because of the absence of prior consultation on them. In its report, it states:
“In response to our questions, NIO also said that a consultation was not necessary because each school must have a written policy on how it will deliver Relationship and Sexuality Education, and that this policy should be subject to consultation with parents”.
However, that misses the vital point: the regulations before us, with the amendments that they make to legislation, will have already been made prior to any consultation on guidance that the Department for Education might hold or any consultation that a school might conduct in its place.
The SLSC rightly observes:
“It is striking that full public consultations were carried out when comparable regulations were introduced in England, and when similarly controversial regulations on abortion were introduced in NI. NIO has not offered any convincing reasons why these Regulations should be treated differently. The lack of a consultation was also the criticism most frequently mentioned in the submissions, including from teachers, parents and school governors as well as representative organisations. Other points advanced in submissions included … The Council for Public Affairs of the Presbyterian Church in Ireland argued that school governing bodies and principals should have been consulted because they will be the organisations charged with implementing the policy … The Transferor Representatives’ Council suggested that the current lack of a NI Assembly made it ‘unusual’ that the Secretary of State would act without engaging in consultation”.
Indeed, it seems to me that the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee became something of a safety valve in the absence of any consultation on the wording of the regulations because, very unusually, the submissions to the committee ran to some 55 pages of text, which has now been published on Parliament’s website. Of course, that is no substitute for the consultation that should have taken place on the wording of the regulations and, in particular, on the decision to give them a name with far-reaching implications that are not referenced anywhere in the parent legislation or in paragraph 86(d) of the CEDAW report because the SLSC is not involved in drafting the regulations. Mindful of all these considerations, the SLSC states:
“These Regulations are drawn to the special attention of the House on the ground that there appear to be inadequacies in the consultation process which relates to the instrument”.
The conduct of the Northern Ireland Office has been problematic, not only because of its failure to respect due process in the drafting of the regulations but because of its failure to facilitate full, considered parliamentary scrutiny of the regulations. As the SLSC points out,
“the Regulations were brought into effect on 6 June 2023, the same day that they were laid.”
Its report states:
“We asked NIO why it had chosen to breach the convention that at least 21 days should be allowed between laying an instrument and bringing it into effect. NIO said that this was ‘to allow the DE as much time as possible to progress work on the guidance in preparation for delivery of the education’”.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. We are joined today by the chair of our committee, the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Wirral. I speak in a personal capacity.
I concur with our committee’s report on this legislation. I know that the rule of the committee is to consider only instruments laid before the House of Lords and to draw the House’s attention to those that meet our reporting grounds. It is then for the House to determine what further action is required.
However, with reference to this SI and its controversial nature, and the need for proper, adequate consultation—as already indicated by the noble Lord, Lord Morrow—with schools, boards of governors and churches, which in many instances own the schools, I urge the Minister to bring forward the necessary legislation to push back the implementation date to allow that consultation to take place. I ask the Minister to consider that. It would allow time for a public consultation and ensure that the policy can be fully developed.
In fact, at the weekend, I spoke to one of the principals of a Catholic grammar school in Downpatrick. He was concerned about the outworkings of the action. He is fully cognisant that we now live in a more liberal world and he feels that the content probably can be delivered sensitively, but it would be preferable if there was consultation that allowed for informed choices to be made.
I contend that the manner and content of this legislation suggests a level of arrogance on the part of the NIO and a total disregard for schools, parents and their management structures, many of which are in the faith-based sector. I feel that they have been treated with total ignominy.
The Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee received representations from a broad range of bodies, including all the churches in Northern Ireland, the Catholic Schools’ Trustee Service—I declare an interest as I was taught in the Catholic sector—the Controlled Schools’ Support Council, Right to Life UK, the Christian Institute, the Presbyterian Church and the Transferor Representatives’ Council. They all raised several concerns, which have been reflected in the SLSC submission to your Lordships’ House. The lack of public consultation prior to the regulations coming into effect has caused immense concern. The NIO told the committee in its responses that there was “no legal requirement” to conduct a consultation—why is that the case?—but that it had
“engaged with a range of stakeholders and statutory organisations”.
Can the Minister say which stakeholders and statutory organisations? What responses did the NIO receive? Were these responses published? What did the responses state? Was there any engagement with those groups directly involved with young people—teachers, parents, boards of governors, the controlling bodies and the churches?
The SLSC, as the noble Lord, Lord Morrow, referred to, concludes that, given the controversial nature of this policy and strong views expressed in submissions to the committee, a full public consultation “would have been appropriate”. The report also points out that other comparable policy changes, including when similar regulations were introduced for England, were subject to a public consultation before implementation. Why was there no public consultation for Northern Ireland? Why was there no recognition of the need to work with all involved in delivering education, particularly those in faith-based environments—and particularly in Northern Ireland, where the subject of abortion is highly controversial. Why was there no recognition of the need to acknowledge and respect the ethos and faith-based nature of many of our schools?
There is no doubt that full public consultation can result in improved policy-making. Sadly, we are at variance in Northern Ireland with what happened in England. If I may, I just quote what the Catholic Schools’ Trustee Service said in its submission; Bishop Donal McKeown, the chair of that service, said:
“We have a particular concern regarding the Explanatory note to the Regulations which proposes a programme of RSE that does not advocate or promote any particular opinion. This requirement runs entirely contrary to the very existence of a faith-based sector which is committed to an ethos, one which parents & carers have specifically chosen for their children”.
The submission further states:
“We would highlight the contrast between this legislative requirement and that which applies to schools in England. The House of Commons Library Report”—
Relationships and Sex Education in Schools (England) from 23 March 2023—
“notes, ‘Schools will have flexibility over how they deliver these subjects, so they can develop an integrated approach that is sensitive to the needs of the local community; and, as now, faith schools will continue to be able to teach in accordance with the tenets of their faith’. Why are these rights, passed overwhelmingly in 2019, in the House of Commons by approval of 538 MPs being denied to schools in Northern Ireland?”
Noble Lords from Northern Ireland need answers to that question. That submission also says:
“The guidance for England also makes explicitly clear that provision for RSE is set, ‘within the context of a school’s broader ethos and approach to developing pupils socially, morally, spiritually and culturally’ The requirements set out in the legislation for Northern Ireland pose a very different and, indeed, contradictory approach to that approved for schools in England”.
While the regulations were laid by the NIO, much of the detailed implementation of the policy will fall to the Department of Education in Northern Ireland. Some aspects of the policy underpinning the regulations, including procedures to allow parents to withdraw their children from sexuality education, may apparently not be developed by the policy implementation date of 1 January 2024—but maybe the Minister has a different view on that. This will be of concern to parents, and it would be useful to fully tease out and get answers on it.
I believe that parents have the right to choose what sort of sexual education their children should receive. The failure to respect the autonomy of parents in this sensitive area is alarming and contrary to any elementary concept of democratic choice. We suggest that the Government should reflect on the European convention, which states that, in the exercise of education,
“the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.
To coincide with the trend of inadequate explanatory memoranda that we receive from other departments—the chair of our committee will be fully aware of that—the NIO has stated in its Explanatory Notes that these regulations would have
“no, or no significant, impact on the private, voluntary or public sectors”.
I would like to know this from the Minister: how was that conclusion arrived at, and on what basis was this assessment made?
The Assembly and Executive are the rightful places to deal with such issues, and I hope that there is a restoration. A pause would therefore be suitable to allow a consultation, which would then allow a reformed Assembly and Executive to formulate a policy with legislation on sexuality education matters which is specific to Northern Ireland and takes on board the ethos and faith-based nature of many schools.
This legislation places significant new responsibilities on boards of governors and principals. I feel that it directly undermines the rights of parents and challenges the rights of trustees to promote that faith-based education. What training will be provided to schools, boards of governors and teachers? What funding will be provided during this time of difficult financial challenges for schools, which we hear about daily?
More thought and reflection are required. I ask the Minister to give that and allow a consultation to take place, as well as meetings with all those involved, to ensure that a policy is put in place that fully reflects the needs of all.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
My Lords, I am sure that the Minister knows that some things will have to be repeated as he listens to this debate. Perhaps after the Members from Northern Ireland have spoken a number of times, it will indeed affect his and the department’s thinking.
In my humble opinion, which I have a right to, I confess that the statutory instrument before us today is a disgrace to any Government. Forcing all primary schools in Northern Ireland, including faith schools, to teach girls that they have a right to an abortion and telling them how to get one without their parents finding out, even if they are under age, is unbelievable in what is supposed to be a democratic society.
Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)
I thank the noble Lord for giving way and I agree with what he is saying and with what the noble Baroness said earlier. He says that there is no elected Member from Northern Ireland in the government party. Is it not even worse, in that we could end up in a year’s time with a Labour Government who do not even allow their party members in Northern Ireland to stand for election, yet profess strongly to be interested in Northern Ireland?
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
The noble Baroness makes her point very clearly. It is beyond challenge. The Labour Party does not permit its members to stand in Northern Ireland, so it could not have an elected representative in the other Chamber, yet it wants to impose its will on the people of Northern Ireland.
The insertion of Section 9 was deeply controversial. I believe that a majority of the people of Northern Ireland find it an offensive amendment, for which there was no prior consultation or proper scrutiny. It was added to a Bill that was supposed to be subject- narrow to the formation of an Executive, yet that legislation was brought through. In fact, not only did the Government bring it through but they did so having presented it on that narrow basis, and it was then deemed appropriate to be granted accelerated passage.
As my noble friend Lord Morrow said, the situation with these regulations is even more anti-democratic and intolerable. As other noble Lords have pointed out, the Secretary of State decided that these regulations, on education provision regarding abortion and reducing teen pregnancy, were not even worthy of consultation. What kind of democratic society are we living in where even the people are not worthy of consultation? These regulations are being imposed over the heads of parents without being preceded by any primary legislative debate at all, in terms of the regulation-making powers as they applied to education. Indeed, the Secretary of State has not bothered to consult or even give himself the semblance of democratic cover before forcing this legislation through. That is arrogance.
As I said, the democratic deficit in relation to these regulations is even worse than that relating to abortion. That is in spite of the fact that, when the abortion regulations were taken to court, the point was made that the Secretary of State had consulted on them and the court stated that,
“in the event that Regulations or Directions are made in the future to deal with those issues”
of education and sexual and reproductive health and so on,
“there will be an opportunity for the Secretary of State to carry out a consultation”.
Whenever the NIO was asked about consultation and whether it was necessary, the response was, “No, it’s not. Why would you talk to those people?” It said that it was not necessary because each school must have a written policy on how it will deliver regulations and sexuality education, and that this policy should be subject to consultation with parents. The House of Lords Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee pointed out that,
“school policies will only be able to operate within the already-established government guidance, meaning that such consultation is too late to affect the framework of RSE delivery”.
However, the committee also noted that,
“when comparable regulations were introduced in England”,
a full consultation was carried out. I wonder whether that was because the elected Members in the other place would have to answer to their electorate. Maybe that was the reason: the electorate had the power to change them or remove them—but not in Northern Ireland. Our Secretary of State feels that parents in Northern Ireland are too far down the pecking order to be worthy of being heard or consulted. That is contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights, which states:
“In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall”—
not might—
“respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.
Notice the word “shall”. But it has not been done.
We are witnessing a deliberate abuse of parliamentary procedure in the development of these regulations. As the Minister listens to the debate today, in the light of what he is hearing, I ask him what he will do to stop any Secretary of State abusing the powers that they feel they have over the people of Northern Ireland.
The Northern Ireland Secretary of State and CEDAW have demonstrated a total lack of respect for faith, which is very important to many in Northern Ireland. Paragraph 43 of the CEDAW report states:
“The designated members observed that young people in Northern Ireland were denied the education necessary to enjoy their sexual and reproductive health and rights. Most children in Northern Ireland attend denominational schools, either Catholic or Protestant”,
but that is not true. It is not true. Of course, does truth really matter? It seemingly does not, because that statement is totally false.
It goes on:
“Church representatives play active roles in school management boards, and the result is that relationship and sexuality education, although a recommended part of the primary and post-primary statutory curriculum of the Department of Education, is underdeveloped or non-existent since it is at the school’s discretion to implement the contents of the curriculum according to its values and ethos”.
On the one hand, it is saying that schools are either Catholic or Protestant. It goes on to tell us that the contents of the curriculum are at the school’s discretion and accord with its values and ethos. It goes on:
“Where relationship and sexuality education is delivered, it is frequently provided by third parties and based on anti-abortion and abstinence ethos”.
This attack on Northern Ireland’s Churches, at the heart of the educational problem, lacks any sense of human rights balance or cognisance that religious freedom is also a human right, let alone any appreciation of the important and constructive role that Churches have played in education, including RSE.
Just because CEDAW is supposed to be a human rights body, it does not excuse its lack of concern for religious liberty. Religious liberty and freedom were hard fought for and obtained—and cost many a life. On the right to religious freedom, this stunning failure to attempt to understand the faith ethos beggars belief.
It seems that the NIO and CEDAW are unaware of Article 2 of Protocol 1 of the ECHR, which states:
“No person shall be denied the right to education. In the exercise of any functions which it assumes in relation to education and to teaching, the State shall respect the right of parents to ensure such education and teaching in conformity with their own religious and philosophical convictions”.
There has certainly been no attempt to respect these rights, when one considers the lack of consultation with parents.
The attitude of the department in the Explanatory Memorandum exposes its ignorance to its human rights obligation under Article 2 of Protocol 1. It says:
“Timing for the Department to make regulations about the circumstances in which a pupil may be excused from receiving education on the updated curriculum is a matter for the Department. There is no guarantee this will be in place by January 2024, the point at which the Department is under a duty to issue guidance to schools on the content and delivery of the updated curriculum. This may attract criticism from faith-based schools, and some teachers and parents”.
It seems to say, “So let it be. Who are they?”
Lord Weir of Ballyholme (DUP)
My Lords, I speak as a former Education Minister for Northern Ireland. I will keep my remarks relatively succinct, because a lot of the substantive ground has been covered by my two colleagues who spoke previously. We are also due to speak in the House on the debate on illegal migration. I join them in expressing concerns about the content of this and in particular the way it has been brought about. The phrase that keeps coming back to me in the context of the implementation of this SI is “lack of respect”: a lack of respect for the sensitivities around the issue of abortion, a lack of respect for the ethos and belief of many people in Northern Ireland, a lack of respect for the devolutionary settlement, a lack of respect for basic democratic process, a lack of respect for educational process—I will touch on that later—and a deep lack of respect for education stakeholders at so many different levels.
As has been indicated, this is something on which myriad steps have been taken and in which undemocratic process has been grafted on top of other undemocratic process. As has been said, it arises from Section 9 of the legislation, which itself had an accelerated passage and was grafted on top of a one-issue subject. Indeed, the CEDAW recommendations, which were meant to be advisory, were themselves grafted on to the issue of abortion within Northern Ireland. As has been indicated, in terms of democratic scrutiny, the provisions in paragraph 86(d) of the CEDAW report did not merit a single minute of debate when this was discussed in relation to primary legislation. Beyond that, we now see these regulations being introduced without any consultation whatever. The concerns raised in relation to that have been highlighted by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which also highlighted that some of the provisions will—it seems uniquely—be brought in immediately rather than after the normal 21 days.
The Minister said in his opening remarks that the Government’s intention was to put Northern Ireland in a similar position to that of England, yet that is not accurate. In England, proper consultation at least took place. There are many things done by government that all of us will disagree with to different levels but, if we are all given the opportunity to have an input through proper consultation, due process will at least have taken place. This process has circumvented that and has not put the people of Northern Ireland in the same position; it has put them in an inferior position to the people of England and Wales.
This also cuts across educational process. The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, rightly made reference to the Gillen report. The substance of that report around RSE focused on critical issues of consent, respect for females and ensuring that relationships were conducted in a respectful manner that hopefully means that we can reduce—and, in an ideal world, eliminate—sexual abuse within that. Yet, it has to be said, this SI tackles none of the subjects at the forefront of the Gillen report. Indeed, it circumvents the work that has been going on in the Department of Education and Department of Justice on the Gillen report. When I was a Minister alongside Minister Long, we did not hold similar views on issues such as abortion—
Baroness Thornton (Lab)
Does not the existence of a properly run relationship education include all the things that were mentioned in the Gillen report? That is why I referred to it.
Lord Weir of Ballyholme (DUP)
Indeed, the noble Baroness was right to refer to it, but the issue is that this SI does not touch on the main recommendations of the Gillen report. It made specific recommendations about what should be included in RSE and how departments could work together on that subject. This SI completely ignores that and puts the cart before the horse. It completely ignores and abrogates what was in the Gillen report.
As I said, Minister Long and I take a very different view on abortion; we are not at one, but we worked together through both departments to set up a joint working group on how RSE could be taken forward, particularly how the recommendations of the Gillen review could be best implemented. These regulations simply cut across that, ignoring the ongoing work, and seek to impose all these things on the NIO. Again, there is concern over where this leaves a wide range of stakeholders. Mention has been made by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, of a wide range of educational groups across the spectrum which have been completely ignored. I do not think that that is particularly healthy for Northern Ireland.
I have been inundated, in particular by school principals and teachers who are deeply concerned that they have, in effect, been thrown into the fire—it may come as a surprise that there are still some teachers who want to speak to me as a former Education Minister. Not all head teachers and teachers have exactly the same view on abortion; they have a range of views. However, they feel that they have been thrown in at the deep end by the Government without any prior knowledge and consultation. They will be left to pick up the pieces without a clue as to how these regulations are to be implemented.
Similarly, those who give their time as school governors—let us remember that it is voluntary—are left with the legal duty of implementing the regulations, again without any input into the process. I suspect that it is quite often difficult to find people who are willing to give their time and put their head above the parapet to be school governors, but frankly, if stakeholders are simply treated with contempt, that process will become even more difficult.
I agree in part with one thing that the Minister has said, about the need for “meaningful engagement”. Would it not have been better if that meaningful engagement had taken place before the SI was introduced? I urge the Government, if they are genuinely committed to meaningful engagement, to put their money where their mouth is, pause these regulations and have a proper consultation. It would not obfuscate many of the democratic flaws in this process or some of the restrictions in the SI, but at least it would ensure that there was the opportunity for people to have their proper say, rather than trying to shut the stable door after the horse has bolted.
Lord Hay of Ballyore (DUP)
My Lords, I rise to oppose these regulations, first, in the way that they have been set out. The issue has united communities of all backgrounds in Northern Ireland in terms of how the Secretary of State has dealt with these regulations, laid before Parliament on 6 June 2023. They require the teaching at key stages 3 and 4 of relationships and sexual education in Northern Ireland, covering abortion and the reduction of teenage pregnancy. They require the Department of Education to introduce a new RSE curriculum across primary schools in Northern Ireland, without any real consultation or prior warning.
Given the hugely controversial nature of the regulations and the strong views expressed against this policy, most people would have believed that a full public consultation would have been necessary.
When similar regulations were introduced in England, they were subject to a public consultation before implementation, as other noble Lords have already stated, as were similar controversial regulations on abortion when they were introduced in Northern Ireland. The Northern Ireland Office has not offered any real, convincing reason why these regulations should be treated any differently.
Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)
My Lords, I will be brief, as other noble Lords have dealt with a lot of the substance of the objections to these regulations.
The point about the lack of respect in relation to teachers, school governors, parents and elected representatives in Northern Ireland is important. There have been many representations from all communities in Northern Ireland, particularly from those sectors, about how badly treated they feel. The lack of respect in the way in which this policy has been driven is the collective responsibility of the Northern Ireland Office, although there is a particular lack of respect and, I have to say, arrogance on the part of the Secretary of State in the way in which he has publicly dismissed criticism, as he also did the other day in the committee in the other place.
The words of my noble friend Lord Hay, a mild-mannered colleague who is not given to hyperbole or stinging criticism, should be taken on board by the Northern Ireland Office. There is a feeling that the current Secretary of State has cost himself a lot of credibility with his attitude and the way in which he goes about matters; it is not helpful. I certainly do not ascribe the same criticism to the Northern Ireland Office Minister whom we have with us in Committee today, who has demonstrated, across a number of issues on which we disagree, a commendable willingness to engage, discuss and have dialogue. We may not always agree, but we certainly have found that engagement productive.
The criticisms outlined by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in its 44th report are very strong and I commend the committee for its work. In his reply, the Minister would do well to go through those criticisms one by one and give a detailed explanation and answer to this Committee as to the accusations levelled against the Government in that report. It merits serious consideration and a serious answer: these are not trivial or small issues.
Finally, paragraph 12.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum says:
“There is no, or no significant, impact on the public sector”.
However, paragraph 12.3 says:
“An impact on the public sector is expected as the Department and will come under a duty to issue guidance … The exact impact will depend on decisions taken during the planning of delivering on the guidance. Furthermore, schools will also be under a legal duty to deliver the updated curriculum”.
Having contradicted itself in paragraph 12.3 compared to paragraph 12.2, the Explanatory Memorandum goes on, in paragraph 12.4, to reverse itself once again by saying:
“A full Impact Assessment has not been prepared for this instrument as no, or no significant, impact on the private, voluntary or public sector is foreseen”.
It then adds the words “free text”, which is clearly a typo. There is also a typo in paragraph 12.3. I do not know who drew up this Explanatory Memorandum, but whoever signed it off should certainly have looked at it more closely. I would like the Minister to explain what paragraphs 12.2, 12.3 and 12.4 mean, because they are contradictory.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, I am one of those people who has no connection to Northern Ireland—ones who think that they probably know better than those who live there what should be going on—who was rightly criticised earlier, so I speak with great hesitation, but having no connection to Northern Ireland allows a certain amount of detachment.
I have to say that this Government are turning out to be probably the most proconsular Government that Northern Ireland has had for decades. Even under direct rule, there was a higher level of consultation about legislation with people who actually live there than we are seeing today. We have had legislation to implement the Northern Ireland protocol and the Windsor Framework imposed on Northern Ireland without any consultation. One might say that that legislation was controversial between the communities, and having an independent arbitrator impose that legislation was a sort of necessity, however much damage it did to the fabric of the United Kingdom. We have moved on from that more recently to, for example, the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Bill and the legislation imposing access to abortion services in Northern Ireland. Today, we have legislation about abortion education in schools.
In respect of the last three, one could be forgiven for thinking that the Government believe that, if they treat Northern Ireland with sufficient insensitivity and disdain, and with no discrimination between the communities, they will so unite the communities of Northern Ireland that all the political problems of the past will be put aside and resolved. That might at least be thought of as a cunning plan, but I suspect that the truth is much worse. We are seeing a loss of contact between what might be called the ruling class in Northern Ireland and the people it governs, including the elected representatives. That is not a right or sustainable position to maintain.
I rose specifically to draw attention to the powerful statement issued by the Irish Catholic bishops, who of course own and manage a large number of the schools. I was, to some extent, anticipated in that by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick. Without repeating her, I will draw attention to a separate part of their statement. It is not simply that they oppose this legislation and what it would require them to do, but they disagree with the fundamental basis on which it arises, which they refer to as
“the recent so-called investigation of the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission into RSE in schools”.
They have serious concern about the accuracy and fairness of that report. I quote briefly from the statement:
“Neither party took the trouble to engage with teachers in the classroom … At best, a limited paper-based exercise was undertaken which failed to recognise that in the reality of classroom teaching, teachers and schools are endeavouring to provide professional, ethically balanced, scientifically honest, and pastorally responsible age-appropriate Relationships and Sexuality formation in our schools”.
It is not simply that they disagree with it; they disagree with the basis on which it sits, which adds a further ground for objection and resentment. I suggest that Ministers should closely acquaint themselves with this statement, because it is extremely powerful and really quite excoriating.
There is a practical consideration. In no sense am I able or wishing to speak on behalf of Irish bishops and those who manage Catholic schools in Northern Ireland but, in practical terms, how do the Government think that they can require people with strong views on this topic to teach something that they believe is morally wrong and objectionable? How do they think that they can do this in practice? The most careful consultation would need to take place in order for this to be a practical measure, but that has not taken place and there is no indication that the Government are going to do it. No doubt there will be consultation, but the principle of what is required, as in the CEDAW statement, leaves little wiggle room.
Ministers should take this carefully into account. It is not simply a matter of making a law then seeing it happen. The people with whom the Government are dealing are not civil servants who will do what they are told simply because that is their role. These people have, in their view, ethical responsibilities not only to teachers but to parents. The Government cannot expect them to abandon those responsibilities simply because we have sat here and allowed a statutory instrument—a mere piece of paper that has very little weight in the minds of people with religious faith compared with their ethical beliefs—to go through. I would like to hear what the Minister has to say about that.
Lord Browne of Belmont (DUP)
My Lords, like my noble friends from Northern Ireland, I rise to oppose these regulations. The noble Lords who have spoken before me have covered all the main points in both detail and structure so I will limit myself to speaking about the rights of parental withdrawal outlined in the regulations.
First, I declare my interest: many years ago, I was a teacher in an unusual school. Its intake was roughly 50% Catholic and 50% Protestant. Its ethos was to deliver a good education to all in the area. It did not have integrated status but it worked very well. In those days, there was no obligation to deliver lessons on sexual education or RSE but, of course, times have changed. It is right that young people learn about the importance of sexual maturity. However, as I said, I will limit myself to the rights of parental withdrawal.
There are two issues. The first relates to definition; the latter relates to questions of due process and constitutionality. The rights of parental withdrawal are set out in proposed new Article 10A(5), which states:
“The Department must by regulations make provision about the circumstances in which, at the request of a parent, a pupil may be excused from receiving the education required to be provided by virtue of Article 5(1A), or specified elements of that education”.
At first glance, this reads as suggesting that the regulations must grant a parental right of withdrawal. In truth, however, because the terms are not defined in the legislation, the regulations could set out the circumstances for withdrawal very narrowly. Surely this generates uncertainty; rather extraordinarily, it is an uncertainty that the Northern Ireland Office saw fit to advertise. Indeed, in the Explanatory Memorandum, the Northern Ireland Office states:
“Timing for the Department to make regulations about the circumstances in which a pupil may be excused from receiving education on the updated curriculum is a matter for the Department. There is no guarantee this will be in place by January 2024, the point at which the Department is under a duty to issue guidance to schools on the content and delivery of the updated curriculum. This may attract criticism from faith-based schools, and some teachers and parents. However, it is our assessment that education should be delivered in a way that informs children of contraception, the legal right to an abortion in Northern Ireland and how relevant services may be accessed, without advocating a particular view on the moral and ethical considerations”.
Baroness Barker (LD)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to support the Minister today—I do not very often, but I do on this matter. I begin my remarks by declaring that I am the chair of the All-Party Group on Sexual and Reproductive Health and a co-chair of the All-Party Group on HIV/AIDS.
One of the reasons why I am proud to be chair of the former is because of a woman who I never met. When I was young, I listened to my mum and my beloved Auntie Betty talking about a girl who they were at school with in the 1940s in Scotland and who got pregnant. They sat there and said, “She didnae know”. That is what happened: lots of young women got pregnant and their lives were transformed, sometimes much against their will, because they just did not know.
As a young woman in my 20s, I began to watch friends and people I knew become sick. Then, some of them went on to die. In some cases, they died because of ignorance. They died because they became HIV positive and, at that point, there was no cure. Fortunately, in the intervening period, HIV has gone on to be a condition with which people live happy, well and fulfilling lives. But I have always believed that everybody in this world has the right to information to make the right choices, and safe choices, about their body and their life. I believe that wherever they are in the world, not just the United Kingdom, but I particularly believe that it should be a right across the four nations of the UK for every young person to have access to accurate information.
Let us go back to why these regulations are in front of us. The noble Lord, Lord McCrea, read this out in his speech, which I disagreed with in many ways. But let us be absolutely clear. The CEDAW report found that, in schools in Northern Ireland, where
“relationship and sexuality education is delivered, it is frequently provided by third parties and based on anti-abortion and abstinence ethos”.
Then there is the bit that the noble Lord did not read out:
“Those factors point to State negligence in pregnancy prevention through a failure to implement its recommended curriculum on relationship and sexuality education”.
Nobody has talked about the sexuality part of it today, but we are talking about young people and HIV as well. Let us bear that in mind.
Members talked about what the Government have come up with in response as being cavalier. It is not: it is careful and considered. It is an obligation on schools to provide information on sexual and reproductive health that is age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate.
I happen to think that, should a parent wish to withdraw their child and prevent them accessing age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate SRH education, they would be a bad parent. Children should have the right to access that information, which keeps them safe. I understand entirely that that view is not shared by everybody else. Therefore, we have to make sure that there is a right to withdraw. That right is quite clear. Members of the Committee have made a great deal about the procedural cases put forward by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in particular, but that committee does not say—nor has anybody said so far—that there is any intention on the Government’s part to frustrate the rights of parents to withdraw their children. That is not the case at all. It is absolutely the case that the Government are upholding their rights.
When we analyse the regulations and the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee’s report, it is important to see who was lobbying the committee so hard to point out flaws and faults in the process. It was the Catholic Church, the Christian Institute and Right to Life—organisations that, at every turn, have sought to prevent women, young girls and young people accessing comprehensive sexuality and relationship education, information about abortion and abortion services. The people bringing about that influence on the committee are some of those who have been guilty of providing information that CEDAW found to be wildly inaccurate and misleading. It is not just that young people run into trouble because of ignorance these days; a lot of organisations, which sometimes present themselves as crisis pregnancy advisers, now make a business out of providing information that is inaccurate and harmful.
There is much that I can and do disagree with—
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
I have sat through hour after hour of debate recently—in fact, sometimes until the early hours of the morning—in which the noble Baroness’s party in particular has demanded that legislation be stopped until the Minister comes to the House with an impact assessment. Because he had not done so, they berated him over and over again. We sat for hours going over that same thing. When was the impact assessment delivered on this legislation?
Baroness Barker (LD)
I listened to noble Lords talk about the impact assessment, in particular to what they said about it in relation to providers. I think that there will be an impact. The Government have actually been quite clear, because the people who will be impacted are those who have been providing inaccurate information that has harmed children.
I listened to the noble Lord’s speech. He talked about this legislation applying to primary schools. It does not; it applies to key stages 3 and 4. We are talking about supplying age-appropriate, comprehensive and scientifically accurate information to people aged 11 to 16.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
The noble Baroness will get the report; I have the speech here. In fact, I did not say that about primary schools. I said that, as far as England is concerned, it was for primary and secondary, but not in Northern Ireland.
Baroness Barker (LD)
I will go back and read Hansard. I am sorry; I did not hear that distinction. I thought the noble Lord said something different.
I want to come back to the purpose of these regulations, which is to prevent unplanned pregnancies and promote sexual health and well-being. The only question I want to ask is about the evaluation of this. It is to be evaluated and a report will be presented to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which we all hope will be back up and running by then.
This is an education matter but it is also a health matter. Why was the Department of Health not included in the evaluation? If this legislation has the effect that we hope it will, there should be an increase in health outcomes for young people in Northern Ireland. The Minister may have a technical reason why that was not the case, but will he write to me at some stage about what the process of evaluation will be?
This is far from cavalier: it is a careful and considered piece of legislation and I am happy to support it.
Lord Caine (Con)
My Lords, as ever, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate. I particularly thank the two main opposition parties for supporting the Government on regulations which earlier today passed the House of Commons by 373 votes to 28. I am also pleased to welcome to our proceedings my noble friend Lord Hunt of Wirral, chair of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee.
There is no doubt that the issues before us have generated a good deal of passion and conviction on all sides of the Committee, which I respect completely. I will endeavour to address as briefly as I can some of the points raised. The first question is about why we are doing this and bringing forward the regulations. To some extent, I addressed this in my opening comments regarding the statutory duty under which the Secretary of State is placed by—I gently remind some noble Lords who questioned the legitimacy of the legislation—an Act of the sovereign Parliament of the United Kingdom: in this case Section 9 of the Northern Ireland (Executive Formation etc) Act 2019.
For clarity, this is not an amendment or a change to the legislation that was sought or brought forward by the Government at the time. Noble Lords will remember that it was a Back-Bench amendment from a Labour Party Member of the other place, but I remind them that it was passed by resounding majorities in both your Lordships’ House and the other place. We really must respect that.
As noble Lords will recall, that legislation passed almost four years ago, yet little or no progress had been made so far in implementing it, despite extensive discussions between my department and the Department of Education in Northern Ireland, including correspondence last July from the former Secretary of State to the then Education Minister in Stormont. When officials began engaging with the Department of Education in 2019 following the passing of the Executive formation Act, they were assured that the CEDAW recommendations would be implemented—assurances that continued until around February last year. I am sorry that the noble Lord, Lord Weir of Ballyholme, is not in his place because I understand that it was while he was Education Minister in Northern Ireland that his department established a working group to amend the curriculum minimum content order.
In February 2022, the department shifted its position in a briefing paper it provided to the Northern Ireland Office, effectively arguing that the curriculum on RSE should be a matter for schools and teachers to determine —how it should be delivered, which resources to use and what specific topics should be covered. That was in conflict with the Secretary of State’s legal duties, which require that certain elements of RSE, as set out in the CEDAW report, must be compulsory components of the curriculum. Noble Lords will understand that, for a Secretary of State to fail in fulfilling his or her statutory duties is a serious breach of the Ministerial Code, and therefore it was imperative that action had to be taken. That is why these regulations have been introduced now. I contend that, given that it is four years since the legislation was passed in Parliament, we can hardly be accused of rushing.
That, of course, leads to one of the major themes of the debate this afternoon—
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
Can I ask the Minister for some clarification? What debate on paragraph 86(d) was held in the other place? Was there a debate?
Lord Caine (Con)
The amendment to the executive formation Act, as it became, was put down by Stella Creasy MP in the other place, debated and passed by a resounding majority.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
I am talking not about abortion but about education.
Lord Caine (Con)
It placed a statutory duty on the Secretary of State to introduce CEDAW-compliant regulations in respect of both abortion services and relationships and sexual education.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
For clarification, was education mentioned in the debate?
Lord Caine (Con)
I do not have the Hansard from June or July 2019 in front of me but the amendment was very clear in the obligations that it placed on the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to introduce CEDAW-compliant regulations, which are now enshrined in statute.
I was about to go on to the major themes of the debate, which is why the laying of the regulations was not preceded by a public consultation—a criticism made by many noble Lords this afternoon and contained in the report of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. A number of factors led the Northern Ireland Office to the conclusion that a public consultation was not required in this instance. First, the CEDAW recommendation—I repeat: under the executive formation Act, the Secretary of State has a duty to implement it—is clear that it requires topics such as abortion and contraception to be compulsory components of the curriculum. That is what these regulations will introduce; no amount of public consultation will change the statutory requirement to comply with CEDAW.
While we are on that, the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie of Downpatrick, asked me about the number of stakeholders that the Northern Ireland Office had discussed. I will just read out one or two of the organisations. There was Love for Life, Common Use, Amnesty, the National Society for the Protection of Young People, the Northern Ireland Human Rights Commission, the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland, the Alliance for Choice and Parentkind.
Secondly, my department conducted an equality assessment under Section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, in consultation with the Equality Commission for Northern Ireland, and concluded that there was no need for the NIO to consult publicly as it is actually for the Department for Education to issue the guidance on how these issues are taught in schools and for monitoring and collecting any equality data.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
The Minister has highlighted the various organisations that were consulted as stakeholders. Does the Northern Ireland Office not consider schools and their governing bodies across the board to be required stakeholders? If so, why were they not considered? Is that not a level of disrespect?
Lord Caine (Con)
If the noble Baroness will forgive me, I shall address that issue in a second or two.
Thirdly, we were also informed by the Department of Education in a briefing paper that significant stakeholder consultation haud taken place on the RSE Progression Framework that it has been developing with the Council for the Curriculum, Examinations and Assessment over a number of years. This is the document that will be updated and used as guidance issued by the department.
Although the current law and circumstances dictate that it falls to the Northern Ireland Office that CEDAW-compliant RSE is a compulsory part of the curriculum, it is rightly for the Department of Education in Northern Ireland to take that requirement forward. In that context, I can inform noble Lords that the Department of Education has now assured us that it aims to launch a public consultation on both the guidance and the opt-out scheme at the beginning of the 2023-24 academic year—that is, in September—to meet the duty to issue guidance by 1 January 2024.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
In reference to consultation, the court noted that
“the consultation which did take place in the context of the Regulations was limited to the issue of abortion but did not deal specifically with the issue of education on sexual and reproductive health or a strategy to combat gender based stereotypes as set out in paras 86(d) and (f) of the CEDAW Report. However, these paras are not referred to in the 2020 Regulations nor are they contained in the 2021 Directions under challenge. In the event that Regulations or Directions are made in the future to deal with those issues then there will be an opportunity for the Secretary of State”—
not the Department of Education—
“to carry out a consultation”.
Why did he not do it?
Lord Caine (Con)
I thank the noble Lord for his speech but I have addressed the Government’s position in respect of the public consultation.
Lord McCrea of Magherafelt and Cookstown (DUP)
I read out the judgment of the court, not a speech from me.
Lord Caine (Con)
I am grateful for the noble Lord’s clarification. I set out the rationale behind the Government’s decision not to proceed with the public consultation in advance of the laying of these regulations. I am not sure whether he was listening to me but I made it very clear that the Department of Education in Northern Ireland will now take forward a public consultation on these matters at the start of the next academic year, in September, with a view to meeting the 1 January deadline. I do not think that I could be clearer in my comments on that.
In addition, the Department of Education also aims to make regulations for parents to withdraw their children from the required education by 1 January 2024, thus ensuring that there will be an option for parents to withdraw their children on issues such as abortion and contraception should they so wish. That deals directly with issues raised by, among others, the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont.
The regulations are not intended to be overly prescriptive—
Lord Caine (Con)
I am sorry; I have been very generous to the noble Lord. He spoke for a long time earlier in the debate. I am conscious that other Grand Committee debates need to take place after this one so, if he will forgive me, out of respect for other colleagues —including my noble friend Lord Johnson, who is sitting patiently—I will continue.
The noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, mentioned external providers. I can assure her that my officials are in constant contact with the department and will continue this engagement, although it is principally a matter for the Department of Education in Northern Ireland.
I hope that this gives some reassurance to a number of noble Lords that the views of the public will be properly taken into account before the final guidance is issued by 1 January 2024. I can confirm that that is very much the target for publication.
I will try to be as quick as I can. A number of noble Lords raised issues in relation to the rights of parents and the ECHR. We of course respect and recognise the rights afforded by Article 2 in the first protocol to the ECHR. We assess that the regulations have been drafted in accordance with convention rights. It is the Government’s firm view that it is compatible to inform children of the legal right to an abortion in Northern Ireland and how relevant services may be accessed without advocating a particular view on the moral and ethical considerations. Providing such information would not affect the ability of parents to provide advice and guidance to their children in keeping with their religious and philosophical views, which we all respect, and therefore we are, in our view, also compatible with Articles 9 and 10 of the ECHR.
Noble Lords referred to the slight differences between England and Wales and Northern Ireland throughout the debate. The statutory guidance in England references prevention of early pregnancy and abortion and, as such, is similar to what is required under CEDAW. We believe that the regulations are the most appropriate way of meeting our statutory obligations and what CEDAW requires, while keeping as closely aligned as possible with other parts of the UK.
The noble Lord, Lord Dodds of Duncairn, referred to the Explanatory Memorandum. He has the advantage of me, in that I do not have a copy in front of me. I will endeavour to provide greater explanation of the Explanatory Memorandum in due course. My understanding is that there will of course be an impact on the department because of the duty to provide guidance, but the exact nature of that impact will not be known until the guidance has been more fully developed and is published.
I have tried, in as brief a time as possible and with respect to colleagues who are coming after me, to deal with a number of points this afternoon. If there are any issues outstanding, I will of course write to any noble Lord who requires further clarification. On that note, I beg to move.
Equipment and Protective Systems Intended for Use in Potentially Explosive Atmospheres Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017 (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023
(1 year, 5 months ago)
Grand CommitteeRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Lord Johnson of Lainston
That the Grand Committee do consider the Equipment and Protective Systems Intended for Use in Potentially Explosive Atmospheres Regulations (Northern Ireland) 2017 (Amendment) (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2023.
The Minister of State, Department for Business and Trade (Lord Johnson of Lainston) (Con)
My Lords, the purpose of this instrument is to ensure that the Windsor Framework, in respect of European Union directive 2014/34/EU, known as the ATEX directive, is properly implemented in Northern Ireland, including provisions regarding the UKNI marking.
I believe it would be helpful if I started today by providing some of the background to this instrument. The ATEX directive aims to prevent equipment or protective systems becoming sources of ignition in atmospheres that could be explosive if conditions lead to dangerous levels of flammable gases, mists or dusts. Settings where these conditions could arise include petrol stations and a range of mainly industrial locations such as agricultural silos, and chemical processing plants.
There are separate GB and Northern Ireland regulations covering ATEX requirements. The Northern Ireland ATEX regulations—the Equipment and Protective Systems Intended for Use in Potentially Explosive Atmospheres Regulations (Northern Ireland) Regulations 2017—were made by the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland. The enforcement authority is the Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland, or HSENI. Currently, the Northern Ireland ATEX regulations refer only to the EU market, which no longer includes Northern Ireland. Conformity assessment bodies perform the vital role of assessing that specified requirements relating to a product, process, system, person or body are fulfilled, carrying out calibration, testing, certification and inspection activities.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
My Lords, I rise in support of these regulations. I declare two interests. First, I am a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee; it agreed with the regulations but I have certain questions. Secondly, I am a member of your Lordships’ Protocol on Ireland/Northern Ireland Sub-Committee, which now looks at the Windsor Framework. If I may, I will ask the Minister some questions.
As part of our committee’s proceedings, officials asked the department for further information about engagement with a cross-representation of stakeholders. The Government have not undertaken a public consultation. Given this instrument’s specific remit, is that normal or should such consultation have taken place? The department said that, in the absence of a functioning Northern Ireland Executive, it was not able to engage with Northern Ireland Ministers but did maintain strong engagement with Northern Ireland colleagues in the Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland, the Department for the Economy and the Department of Justice; no concerns were raised. Can the Minister indicate in his response the format of that engagement? Was it by email, face-to-face consultation or some other means?
Obviously, because of the Windsor Framework there will be an element of divergence in standards. How will that be managed to ensure that there are no conflicts or challenges? Who will monitor that level and degree of divergence and how will it be recorded? Is the Department for Business and Trade undertaking an audit of areas of divergence as a result of the implementation of the Windsor Framework? The noble Lord, Lord Dodds, is also a member of the protocol committee, and that is one area that we have been exploring with the Foreign Secretary. We have been trying to get that list or audit and, as far as I can recall, we have been told simply that it does not exist. It is important that that audit is conducted and updated on an ongoing basis.
From what I can see, the purpose of these regulations is to ensure that they are implemented in accordance with the Windsor Framework. What role will the EU have in relation to that implementation? Will the Department for the Economy in Northern Ireland have a surveillance role and report to the Department for Business and Trade in London to ensure that implementation is in accordance with the Windsor Framework and with proper health and safety standards? As the Minister suggested, the regulations deal with explosives, gas and petrol stations, and the output thereof.
I agree with the regulations, but I have those few questions, to which I would like a response.
Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)
My Lords, as the noble Baroness said, I, too, am a member of the committee on the Northern Ireland protocol—or the Windsor Framework, as it is now called, although the two are interchangeable, not just in name but largely in substance. It should be said by way of general comment that this particularly technical statutory instrument deals with an important area but is illustrative of the fact that, under the Windsor Framework, Northern Ireland is subject to EU law, over which no one has given their consent or had a vote or any say at all.
Regarding some of the claims made about the Windsor Framework, it sometimes needs to be remembered that, in Parliament—the other place and here—we look regularly at a whole raft of statutory instruments which implement EU law in Northern Ireland, and the implications for divergence. The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, will know that from our experience in the protocol committee. She and others across the board raised the important point about the implications for divergence: the continuing impact over months, years and even decades, if this is allowed to continue, of rules in Northern Ireland which will diverge from the rest of the United Kingdom, either through acts of the European Union, in areas of law which pertain to Northern Ireland under annexe 2 of the protocol, or by actions of the UK Government, now or in future, to a greater or lesser extent, in which they seek to diverge from EU rules. All these will have an impact on Northern Ireland, and in areas where we cannot foresee the outcome. That is why, although people claim that the Windsor Framework is a settlement, it gives rise to future possible areas of dispute.
When our committee at some point ceases its work, there is no evidence thus far that there will be anyone else to pick up that work. People say that the Northern Ireland Assembly will become responsible for it, when it is restored, but there will need to be a massive increase in capacity, skills and personnel to begin to grapple with the massive amount of legislation that is going to come down the track—and for MLAs to get a handle on the sort of issues that are going to arise. I worry about that.
On a couple of specific points, in relation to the lack of an impact assessment, we understand that one has not been prepared because, according to paragraph 13.3 of the Explanatory Memorandum, measures resulting from the framework are out of scope of assessment. Can I have clarification on what that means? Measures resulting from the framework—I presume that is the Windsor Framework—are out of scope of assessment. That seems a rather sweeping statement, but it is there in the Explanatory Memorandum. It seems strange that we should have such a declaration, because my understanding was not that that was the case, but I would be grateful for clarification. Maybe I have misread it or taken it wrong, but it is certainly a concerning statement that is contained in the Explanatory Memorandum.
Another point mentioned in the first paragraph of the Explanatory Notes and in paragraph 7.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum is that the European Union legislation listed in annexe 2 is implemented in Northern Ireland—that is, annexe 2 of the protocol, or the Windsor Framework as it is now called. I would be grateful for clarification, if the Minister can give it—and, if he cannot give it today, I would understand if he writes to me instead—about that statement as well. The Government have told us over and over again that the Windsor Framework removes whole areas of EU law, some 1,700 pages indeed, but the vast bulk of EU law applies to Northern Ireland by virtue of annexe 2, particularly paragraphs 5 to 10.
I would be grateful again for an explanation, although I understand if it is not possible today, but in due course, of that statement as well and its implications in terms of EU legislation. It is stated twice, in the Explanatory Notes and the Explanatory Memorandum and, if these things are meaningful, they have obviously been written deliberately and with consideration.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his very detailed explanation of these regulations. I have three questions—or requests for clarification—for him; some aspects have already been covered but I will none the less press ahead with them.
First, paragraph 7.4 of the Explanatory Memorandum states that the Health and Safety Executive Northern Ireland previously had responsibility for
“informing the Commission and other member States … where there are non-conformity products that may be on the EU market”,
but that this responsibility will now be passed to the Secretary of State. Why was this change considered necessary and why is the Secretary of State considered the most appropriate person to carry out that function?
My second question has to a large degree been covered by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. I wanted to ask why there was no public consultation on these measures, not least with the businesses in Northern Ireland that are directly affected by these changes.
The Minister has largely already covered my third question, which is about an information campaign. Given that these regulations will introduce sanctions for non-use or improper use, it is extremely important that businesses affected by this are aware of the new rules. He said that there will be a website, if I heard him correctly. Are there also plans for a more proactive approach to reach out to companies that will be directly affected—companies exporting to Northern Ireland as well as businesses in Northern Ireland that will be directly impacted?
Baroness Blake of Leeds (Lab)
I thank the Minister for the full explanation, which is very much appreciated, and those in the Room for their questions. A few things have been covered that I was going to pick up, and I do not have a great deal more to add. As the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, mentioned, I was intrigued by the arrangements of the health and safety aspects, particularly the responsibilities for the Secretary of State. I look forward to the answers on that. There are some interesting questions to answer around the consultation. With all these matters, some reassurance is needed on the changes around resources, how they will be managed and, particularly, how they will be monitored. I am sure that the Minister will pick up on the impact assessment in his closing remarks. The only other aspect is around whether there will be any impact on the way that implementation in Great Britain continues and whether this will have any particular impact on that: would there be any digression from the situation arising in Northern Ireland? With those comments, I look forward, with interest, to the Minister’s summing up.
Lord Johnson of Lainston (Con)
I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords for their participation in the discussion on this statutory instrument. I will try to answer the questions raised in this debate, if I can.
I start with the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie. I apologised to her in the Division Lobbies for not completely hearing her final question. My commitment here is to focus on the changes relating to these ATEX products, so she will understand if I am quite keen to focus specifically on this regulatory change. I am very aware of the other questions raised around this, particularly relating to the Windsor Framework.
I will cover two points on consultation and, to some extent, impact. We did not undertake a public consultation, given that the instrument’s provisions are limited to making amendments for the implementation of a Windsor Framework obligation and ensuring that Northern Ireland continues to implement EU-derived product safety requirements for ATEX goods. But we did have informal discussions around product sector legislation. As I understand it, these were held with over 4,000 businesses, including manufacturers, trade associations and industry representatives by means of a series of structured interviews. There were further discussions with the Northern Ireland civil servants, the department and the Ministry of Justice. These took place in the form of emails and telephone calls. There was some discussion around the process of this SI and who was effectively responsible for these regulations. That is one of the reasons why they have taken some time to come to noble Lords’ attention.
It is worth looking also at the impact on businesses themselves. We estimate that there are just under 5,500 businesses in the UK subject to ATEX regulations—anywhere between lower and upper bands of 5,000 and 6,000. We think that some businesses may incur costs associated with familiarisation of the new requirements and the labelling, but we believe that the impacts of these changes are expected to be very limited, and the expected net impact of these changes is estimated to be about £2.5 million of direct costs to businesses, most likely relating to familiarisation, among other things.
Officials in the Office for Product Safety & Standards will provide online industry guidance, which I mentioned earlier, to coincide with the instrument coming into force to ensure that businesses have all the information they need on how to comply with the new requirements, but I certainly note the well-made comment of the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, about the importance of ensuring that the affected businesses are well signalled. Officials are also liaising with the Health and Safety Executive for Northern Ireland, which is responsible for enforcing the Northern Ireland ATEX regulations and ensuring they have all the necessary information on doing so.
Republic of Belarus (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2023
(1 year, 5 months ago)
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
That the Grand Committee do consider the Republic of Belarus (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2023.
Relevant document: 44th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (instrument not yet reported by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments)
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, this statutory instrument was laid on 8 June under the powers provided by the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. It amends the Republic of Belarus (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019 by broadening the designation criteria and introducing new financial and trade measures. These enhanced sanctions reflect, and are designed to disrupt, the ability of Belarus to support Mr Putin’s war and are designed to deter it from engaging in actions that further destabilise Ukraine.
The Government introduced their previous package of sanctions against the Belarusian regime almost one year ago. It included a range of financial and trade measures, and our trade with Belarus has subsequently dwindled. However, Belarus has continued to support the Russian invasion of Ukraine. It allowed Russian forces to use its territory as the launch pad for the illegal invasion of Ukraine. It trained Russian soldiers, supplied materiel and continues to provide logistical support to Russia.
Mr Lukashenko’s cronies continue to spread Mr Putin’s poisonous propaganda and disinformation, and there is evidence to suggest that Belarus could be providing a route to circumvent the unprecedented suite of targeted sanctions that we and our allies have imposed on Russia. I know that that has been a cause of specific concern for all Members of your Lordships’ House. We condemn the actions taken by Mr Lukashenko and his regime in support of Mr Putin’s and Russia’s illegal war on Ukraine. In response, we are absolutely determined to scale up our sanctions package against Belarus. The measures in this latest package seek to block circumvention routes and broaden our designation criteria, while adding new powers to constrain propagandists.
I will take each aspect of the package in turn. The instrument contains new trade sanctions, including a ban on UK exports to Belarus of banknotes and on a wide a range of machinery, as well as chemicals that could be used in the production of chemical and biological weapons. It will prohibit the export of precursor chemicals that could be used in the manufacture of chemical and biological weapons. This instrument also bans the import of Belarusian cement, wood, rubber and gold. This will help to further clamp down on revenue streams for the regime.
These new trade sanctions on cement, rubber, wood and machinery will align us with previous EU sanctions and, in the case of precursor chemicals and gold, they go further. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has often focused on this issue, so I thought I would share that with noble Lords. At this juncture, as we have said before, while we are moving in a co-ordinated fashion, there may be occasions when we are ahead of our allies or our allies are ahead of us, but the alignment continues to work well.
The measures also include further financial sanctions to prevent Belarus using money markets or transferable securities instruments. Again, noble Lords have raised this issue regularly. Belarus has sought to use such instruments to raise revenue. Thus, by taking these measures, we will be constraining its ability to support Mr Putin’s invasion.
Another key aspect of this amendment is the broader range of designation criteria, which is extremely important. It will allow us to sanction a wider range of the regimes’ facilitators, including government aides, advisers and Ministers. Where appropriate, it will also enable us to target family members of individuals already designated to prevent them benefiting from asset transfers designed to circumnavigate the bite, effect and impact of UK asset freezes.
This instrument also provides the UK Government with powers to prevent designated Belarusian media organisations spreading propaganda in the UK, including over the internet. These measures provide powers to restrict the reach of Russian and Belarusian disinformation, and go some way further to reduce the impact of the disgusting practice of posting forced confessions online.
These strategic and targeted measures will sit alongside the wide-ranging sanctions that we have already imposed on more than 100 individuals and entities for their role in the violent oppression of Belarusian civil society, opposition groups and the media. I know that this point has been raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, among others. We are targeting individuals including Mr Lukashenko and key members of his regime.
To conclude, as noble Lords recognise, the instrument we are debating today is part of our broader efforts to target Mr Lukashenko’s Belarusian regime for its continued support of Russia’s illegal actions in Ukraine. It is important to be clear that the UK Government have no issue with the people of Belarus. They deserve leadership that does not oppress them or ignore the interest of the Belarusian people in preference for or in support of President Putin.
We reserve the right to introduce further measures in co-ordination with our international partners. Again, I am grateful for the strong support that we have received from noble Lords, particularly the Front Benches. Should Mr Lukashenko’s regime continue to prop up Mr Putin’s illegal war in Ukraine, we will seek to act further. I beg to move.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing these regulations. He knows of the Liberal Democrat support for these sanctions, which has been consistent and wholehearted. He is absolutely right that the direct focus of these measures should be the regime supporting this illegal conflict, not the people of Belarus.
I am grateful for officials’ work on the very comprehensive impact assessment. Perhaps other ministries could learn from the thoroughness with which the impact assessment was put together, so I commend the officials for that. It is incredibly important that impact assessments are there and are clear, because these measures mean nothing unless they can be enforced. What level of enforcement is now anticipated?
I read the Hansard of the House of Commons’ coverage on this measure and the new financial sanctions. A question was put to the Minister’s counterpart on the resources, capacity and ability of the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation to enforce these measures properly. If I may say so, this issue has been consistently raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in previous debates on these issues. The Minister there said that the Government’s view was that £20 million had been used as penalties for Russian sanctions but there has been little information. I would be grateful if the Minister here could clarify what the impact has been already. The benefit of co-ordination, and the area of focus, has to be on ensuring that UK-based law and consultancy firms are not being used to circumvent these measures.
I am grateful to the Minister for referencing the issue that I have raised on a number of occasions: working with our allies on gold. I will return to that point in a moment.
These measures now have a heightened sense of importance, given the very recent developments. If it is the case that the Wagner Group is now effectively based in Belarus but will still operate via Moscow in many of the countries, as we are seeing, this means that these measures will be even more important.
Before I close, I want to ask the Minister about discussions with our allies. He has heard me referencing the UAE before when it comes to financial relationships. My understanding is that the Wagner operations are now likely to be based out of Minsk, although there is uncertainty about the location of Mr Prigozhin. Let us take that as a fairly reasonable assumption that the operations will still be in place.
The Minister knows about my interest in Sudan. My understanding is that the Kush project, a gold project in Sudan that has been part of the source of the Rapid Support Forces there, has been a joint project between Russians and Emiratis where the Wagner Group has been operating under contract. That has provided—the concern is that it continues to do so—a revenue stream for one of the warring parties in Sudan. My understanding is that the Kush project and investments are, in effect, still being banked through the UAE.
When it comes to restrictions on transferable securities or money market instruments, I would be grateful if the Minister could be clear that this is on the radar of the FCDO in our discussions with our friends in the UAE. These measures will not be effective at directing targeted measures towards the Belarus officials—and now, the Wagner Group—if they are still able to operate with impunity, in effect, in crisis areas such as Sudan. I know that the Minister will not be able to respond to me in detail today so I would be happy for him to write to me with specific regard to the Kush for Exploration and Production Company.
The Minister knows my view on the proscription of Wagner. I will not ask him about that because I know what he will say in response but, now that Belarus is at the eye of the internal issues in Russia and given the impact in Africa, these points will be of heightened importance. I would be grateful if the Minister could respond to them. In the generality, breadth and widening of the scope, he knows of our support.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the Minister’s introduction to these regulations. Like the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I reiterate our continued support for the Government’s efforts to bring this war to an end. I repeat the sentiments that we expressed during the debate on the Statements made on Monday. I certainly welcome the Minister’s response on alignment and co-ordination; these are vital elements to the success of any sanctions regime. We cannot act alone.
I make just one small point: the SLSC drew attention to these regulations because it was
“surprised to learn that—16 months into the conflict—the FCDO is only now prohibiting the export of precursor materials for chemical and biological weapons to a conduit country known to”
supply these things to the Putin regime. I would appreciate some sort of response on that particular point.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness Scott of Needham Market) (LD)
My Lords, a Division has been called. I understand that there are to be two Divisions in quick succession, so I propose that we reconvene 10 minutes after the second Division starts, or sooner if we are all back.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I was mid-flow. I was making the point about the need for strong enforcement and investigation, primarily to act as a deterrent to make sanctions more effective. My honourable friend Stephen Doughty raised this issue in the other place. He said that, according to records on the OFSI’s website, no financial penalties appear to have been issued since September 2022. In response, the Minister, Anne-Marie Trevelyan, said that she would write about the effective implementation. As the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, mentioned, she said that the
“OFSI has issued £20 million in fines so far”.—[Official Report, Commons, Third Delegated Legislation Committee, 26/6/23; col. 6.]
I am not quite sure what period she meant. She indicated that she would write to my honourable friend but I would like the Minister to respond with the details not only in his response tonight but on an ongoing basis. Parliamentarians should not only be informed but use the information about enforcement in a much more public way to ensure that it is seen that we take the sanctions seriously and that we are pursuing and implementing them, thereby ensuring that the information acts as a proper deterrent. I hope that we can address this issue. That concludes my comments; I look forward to the Minister’s response.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis. I note that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, informed me and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that he is unable to join us as he is speaking on the next group of amendments in the Chamber. That said, I thank both noble Lords once again for their strong support for the Government’s position. I am sure that they would both acknowledge that we are constructively taking on the suggestions and practical proposals put forward in these debates to further strengthen what we are doing.
With the noble Lord’s indulgence, I will mention briefly the situation regarding Yevgeny Prigozhin, as his whereabouts and so on were raised. I am sure that noble Lords have followed the news that Mr Lukashenko has confirmed that the head of the Wagner Group has arrived in Belarus. Mr Lukashenko has also echoed comments made by Mr Putin that Wagner mercenaries should come to Belarus under security guarantees offered by him and Mr Putin. We have seen no indications that any Wagner mercenaries have so far relocated to Belarus but the prospect of their doing so cannot be ruled out. We are working closely with key NATO allies. As President Duda of Poland and the NATO Secretary-General, Jens Stoltenberg, have stated, the presence of Wagner mercenaries in Belarus is an extremely worrying development. Of course, I will keep noble Lords informed about that, but I thought it appropriate to mention it right from the start.
I will seek to answer most, if not all, of the questions raised. I take on board the final point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about transparency and ensuring that not just we in the Chamber but the public are assured that the actions we are taking are resulting in direct sanctions against those who seek either to act against the sanctions or to circumvent them. This instrument widens the scope of what we will be able to do going forward. Specific provisions in the sanctions proposal that we put forward will allow us to take further action. The broadening element of the sanctions will certainly allow us to act more quickly and with greater agility. As I said in my opening remarks, it will also allow us to act to take on board not only the principal individuals but those who may be associated, either by family or business, with those in Russia and Belarus who are subject to these sanctions.
To take some of the questions, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about resourcing and staffing. The Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation has doubled in size this financial year and continues to grow to meet the challenges of the sanctions introduced. The recruitment of new permanent staff continues following the Chancellor’s announcement in March about doubling that department’s size. In its annual report, released on 10 November 2022, OFSI said that it is scaling up to over 100 full-time employees by the end of 2022, accelerating and enhancing the ambitious transformation programme. If there are more up-to-date figures during the course of this year, we will, of course, update.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, rightly asked about the export ban on goods and technology related to chemical and biological weapons. Of course, we continue to review all our sanctions, which are designed to evolve over time to maintain effectiveness and apply increasing pressure. The export of goods and technology related to chemical and biological weapons that is now in place is designed to replicate measures that we have already taken against Russia. This will ensure that we prevent the possibility of such routes being circumvented via Belarus in the event that Russia tries to exploit any potential avenues. I take the noble Lord’s point about the importance of acting with greater agility and dynamism. That is why I go back to the broad nature of the sanctions provisions in terms of the structure that we have proposed.
On the issue of circumvention, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about a particular entity. I can share with noble Lords that we are engaging with third countries to close down routes that Belarus—and Russia, for that matter—could potentially use to circumvent our sanctions. The noble Lord may be aware that I was in the UAE recently. Of course, Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine and the issue of sanctions were discussed. Noble Lords may be aware that, on 31 March, the Central Bank of the United Arab Emirates announced that it would cancel MTS Bank’s Abu Dhabi licence, taking into account the sanction risk associated with the bank after its designation by the UK and the US. These latest measures on Belarus are also designed to close down potential avenues for circumvention. I mention that because it is a practical example of how countries are taking action more broadly.
The issue of Wagner in Africa was also raised. We are aware of the US Treasury’s announcement on Wagner Group sanctions on 27 June. We have repeatedly highlighted Wagner’s destabilising role in Mali and other parts of Africa. However, we need to look at this and scrutinise it closely; it is an evolving situation, and the events over the weekend demonstrably showed how quickly things can change on the ground. We are analysing the impact of the events of last weekend.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of media freedom, freedom of expression and unintended consequences. Of course, the UK is committed to international law, upholding freedom of speech and open, transparent and independent media. We refuse to use information in the same callous way as those in Russia and Belarus. We shall continue to hold ourselves to the highest standards, and we have demonstrated this leadership. I take on board the noble Lord’s point about ensuring that there are no unintended consequences but, as we keep these sanctions under review, we will ensure that in any such cases, if they are brought to our attention, any unintended consequences of these sanctions are put right.
There was a broader issue of how we respond to those who perhaps feel that the sanctions provide limited assistance on the humanitarian front and on food security. We continue to make the point that there are humanitarian provisions in all the sanctions, including on the issues of food security. To be clear, and for the record, the challenges that the UN-designed Black Sea grain initiative faces and the limitations that we see are not down to the sanctions. It is Russia that continues to limit the number of vessels that are taken out. Recently, when I was in Turkey, that was a key point of our focus and our exchange with key colleagues.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of human rights and international law, which I have covered. The disinformation issue will be ever evolving, and we need to remain vigilant to how information is used, or how disinformation is utilised by those in Belarus and Russia.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, also raised potash. This SI has no impact on potash production, but the import of Belarusian potash has been prohibited since August 2021. That is not the cause of the increased cost of food since Mr Putin’s invasion. I have already covered the points that the noble Lord raised on chemical weapons.
We are always looking at how we can strengthen the resourcing and effectiveness of our enforcement. On 13 March, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister announced a new economic deterrence initiative to boost our diplomatic and economic tools to respond to hostile acts by current and future aggressors. With funding of up to £50 million over two years, the EDI will improve sanctions implementation, as well as transparency and enforcement. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised that important point.
To conclude, I am again thankful to noble Lords for their participation, but I am particularly grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, for their strong support and that of their respective parties for the Government’s actions. That yet again sends a united message, in this instance to Belarus and to Mr Lukashenko directly, that we will act together and in unity.
It is firmly in the interests of the UK and our allies to continue supporting Ukraine in the face of Russia’s assault and to impose a real cost on Mr Putin and his supporters, including other countries, for his flagrant attack on the international rules-based order. This enhanced package of sanctions will restrict Mr Lukashenko’s ability to support Mr Putin’s war and any efforts to circumvent the unprecedented package of international sanctions already imposed on Russia. We are grateful for the solidarity across Parliament for the actions that we have taken in response to the invasion to date. I assure the Committee that we will continue to work co-operatively and to update the House accordingly.
International Atomic Energy Agency (Immunities and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2023
(1 year, 5 months ago)
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Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park
That the Grand Committee do consider the International Atomic Energy Agency (Immunities and Privileges) (Amendment) Order 2023.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)
This instrument was laid before Parliament on 5 June, in accordance with Section 10(1) of the International Organisations Act 1968. A correction was made on 7 June to amend an error in a date referenced in the order. It is subject to the affirmative procedure and will be made once it is approved by both Houses before being put to the Privy Council.
The order’s primary purpose is to correct an omission in the privileges and immunities granted to the International Atomic Energy Agency—also referred to as the IAEA or the agency—under the 1974 order. In the Agreement on the Privileges and Immunities of the International Atomic Energy Agency 1959, signed by the UK in 1961, the UK agreed to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of agency members attending any international conference, symposium, seminar or panel convened by the agency. This language was not entirely reflected in the subsequent 1974 order. The proposed amendment allows the UK to fulfil its obligations to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of members attending agency-convened events in the UK. The amendment also clarifies that representatives of members as defined in the 1959 agreement includes
“governors of the Agency’s Board of Governors and representatives, alternates, advisers, technical experts and secretaries of delegations”.
The Government consider these privileges and immunities both necessary and appropriate to deliver on the interests and commitments that the UK has towards the agency. They are within the scope of the International Organisations Act and in line with UK precedents. The amending order confers no new privileges and immunities but expands the range of meetings where they apply, in line with the 1959 agreement. The provisions of that agreement have previously been applied operationally and meetings of the agency have been held in the UK without incident. However, we cannot continue to bear the risk of our domestic legislation provisions being at odds with our international treaty obligations. It is therefore right that this amending order be passed to allow the UK to fully meet its commitment to provide privileges and immunities to representatives of members attending agency meetings in the UK.
Baroness Suttie (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his brief but comprehensive introduction to these regulations. I apologise on behalf of my noble friend Lord Purvis of Tweed, who is currently in the Chamber dealing with other matters. We broadly support these measures.
My noble friend was quite keen to ask a question about paragraph 4 in the Explanatory Memorandum, about the situation vis-à-vis Scotland. It says there that a separate Scottish Order in Council would be prepared. Will the Minister say whether there is yet a timetable available for that, and have these proposals already been agreed by the Scottish Government? Otherwise, we welcome these regulations from these Benches.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, thank the Minister for his introduction. I am extremely grateful for his very helpful letter of 12 June explaining why such agreements sometimes differ between different international organisations in how they are set out. I hope that a copy was placed in the Library of the House.
The noble Lord quite rightly pointed out that this instrument corrects discrepancies in a 1974 order which implemented a 1959 immunities agreement giving immunities and privileges across a range of events. I have one basic question: I looked in the Explanatory Memorandum to better understand why it has taken almost 50 years to realise the error. Could the Minister offer an explanation? It may be rather straightforward, but I could not see it in there. This struck me: if this error has been brought to the department’s attention, was anyone impacted by it, and do we need to address anything around detriment to an individual?
I was also grateful to the Minister for pointing out the importance of the 29th Fusion Energy Conference, which will be hosted by the IAEA in London in October, and the range of people who will be attending. Can he tell us a bit more about what the Government are doing to prepare and to offer support to ensure that the conference is successful? I look forward to the Minister’s response.
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
I am grateful to noble Lords who have contributed to this discussion. In a sense, this legislation is part of our preparation for the event. It is a requirement for us in order to be able to meet our internationally agreed obligations. It is worth pointing out that the privileges and immunities granted to representatives of member states are a requirement of the UK hosting IAEA events. Ministers have looked at the requirement, and I believe a number of questions were raised in the other place about certain countries being involved. Ministers and officials have considered the requirement and any possible associated risk but, as host of the event, the UK has to honour the invitations to all 176 members. As a consequence, we expect a high attendance. We think there will be between 1,000 and 2,000 delegates, although clearly, we do not yet know how many there will be.
On the question about the devolved Administrations— I will come back to how the error was spotted—the 1974 order and the amending order extend to the whole of the UK, but there are some provisions that do not apply in Scotland. The opportunity has been taken to clarify which of the provisions in the 1974 order will apply to Scotland in so far as they are within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. Article 2 inserts new Article 3A into the 1974 order, which clarifies that position. A separate Scottish Order in Council will therefore be prepared in respect of those amendments within the legislative competence of the Scottish Parliament. It will be laid before the Scottish Parliament soon.
The error was spotted only recently—I think because of the organisation in the run-up to the event that we have been discussing. I believe that it was the colleague sitting behind me who spotted the error. It was immediately agreed that the correction should be made to ensure that we comply with international law.
On the agency itself, the IAEA is a key partner for the UK for all the reasons that I described in my opening remarks. Its work to promote nuclear technologies and ensure that they are peaceful, safe and secure is key for countering proliferation, preventing accidents and facilitating the use of nuclear power for energy security and climate goals. I know the Committee has a keen interest in the UK’s relationship with the IAEA. As has been noted, passing this amendment will correct a historic error and ensure that we are able to meet our international obligations. It will enable us to successfully host the event that we have discussed in this exchange. That just leaves me to thank the Committee for its time and questions.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
Will the Minister answer my supplementary question about whether there has been any impact?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My understanding is that there has been no impact. I looked over my shoulder to confirm that and I got a nod, so I believe that I am right in saying that there has been no impact. The provisions had previously been applied operationally, and meetings of the agency have been held in the UK without any incident. However, the judgment is that we cannot continue indefinitely to bear the risk of our domestic legislation being at odds with our international treaty obligations. There have been no incidents. With that, I trust that the Committee will support the order.