Baroness Taylor of Stevenage

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That the Bill be now read a second time.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government (Baroness Taylor of Stevenage) (Lab)

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My Lords, I begin by acknowledging the bereaved family members of those who died in the Grenfell Tower fire, as well as survivors and members of the local community. Nothing that can be said in this House can diminish the loss they have endured or the impact this tragedy has had on their lives, but they have the respect of this House and of the country as a whole.

The fire at Grenfell Tower, which claimed the lives of 72 people, was a profound and avoidable tragedy. Its consequences continue to be felt by bereaved families, survivors, the local community and far beyond. Grenfell must never be forgotten, and we must continue to ensure that nothing like it can ever happen again. There remains much work to do on justice, reform and making homes safe, but this Bill is concerned with one clear and specific responsibility: how we remember Grenfell and how we ensure that remembrance is properly supported over the long term.

From the outset, I want to be clear with noble Lords. This is a simple Bill with a focused purpose. It exists to provide the statutory authority necessary to support the construction and long-term care of a Grenfell Tower memorial and related activities. The design of that memorial and the way it is shaped must remain with the bereaved families, survivors and the community. This Bill is intended to support that work, not to replace or override it.

Grenfell has never been, and must never become, a matter of party politics. It is about doing what is right and keeping our word. A commitment was made to support the bereaved families and survivors to create a fitting and lasting memorial at the site of Grenfell Tower. This Government are honouring that commitment. That is why the independent Grenfell Tower Memorial Commission was established in 2019. From the beginning, its work has been community led: listening to bereaved families, survivors and the immediate community, and helping to shape a shared vision for the future of the site.

After extensive engagement over several years, the commission published its report, Remembering Grenfell, in November 2023. The report set out clear recommendations, including the creation of a permanent memorial at the site of Grenfell Tower: a private space where elements of the tower can be laid to rest with dignity and respect, and a physical and digital archive, alongside a permanent exhibition, to ensure that the story of Grenfell is preserved honestly, sensitively and with care.

This work has been guided throughout by those most directly affected by the tragedy, and it must continue to be so. Views about the future of the site are deeply personal and not always shared by everyone. The process supported by this Bill is one that remains firmly community led. The Government have welcomed the commission’s recommendations and will support it to carry them forward. Community led design work is now under way, following the appointment of a design team through a selection process that involved bereaved families, survivors and members of the local community.

This is a focused Bill. It provides the statutory authority required for the Government to spend public money on the construction of a Grenfell Tower memorial and on its long-term management and care. It also enables spending on preservation, an archive, an exhibition and a site where elements of the tower can be laid to rest, and allows for land to be acquired and works to be carried out where necessary. Although preparatory work and community-led design are already under way, Parliament must provide the statutory authority required to fund the delivery of this national memorial and ensure its upkeep over the long term. The Bill provides that authority.

I underline one important point for noble Lords. The Bill is deliberately narrow in scope. It does not determine the design of the memorial, make planning decisions or set governance or ownership arrangements. Instead, it does one essential thing: it ensures that the expenditure connected to the memorial is properly authorised, in line with the rules governing public spending and with Parliament’s consent.

Community-led design work will continue while Parliament considers the Bill, allowing progress to remain on course. The memorial will honour those who lost their lives and those whose lives were permanently changed by the tragedy. It will be a place for remembrance, reflection and respect.

The memorial does not diminish the other work that must continue following Grenfell. Bereaved families and survivors have waited far too long for justice. Those responsible must be held to account, and I fully support the Metropolitan Police in what is one of the largest and most complex investigations it has ever undertaken.

We must continue to reform the system so that residents’ voices are heard and safety concerns are never ignored. The Government remain committed to implementing the recommendations of the Grenfell Tower Inquiry to deliver real and lasting change, and to ensuring that everyone can have confidence that their home is safe.

This is a modest Bill in form but it carries real weight. As I said, it is not about party politics but about how we remember Grenfell, what we learn from it and what we choose to do as a country. It does not address every issue arising from the tragedy, and we acknowledge that there is still much to be done. What it does is ensure that the national remembrance is properly supported and protected, with Parliament’s agreement and in a way that respects the central role of bereaved families, survivors and the community. Above all, it helps to ensure that Grenfell remains part of our national memory and that its lessons continue to shape a safer and fairer future. On that basis, I beg to move.

Baroness Scott of Bybrook (Con)

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My Lords, none of us will forget the events of 14 June 2017. The shock we all felt is nothing to the pain that the Grenfell community have suffered. We can never fully appreciate the cost of the Grenfell fire to those who were there that night and those who are part of that local community. They have shown such bravery in their fight for justice and I pay tribute to that community, who have demonstrated such resilience in the wake of this tragedy. Through the inquiry, they have been fighting for justice for eight years now. I know that noble Lords across the House share my hope that that community will soon get some further closure.

I thank the Minister for bringing forward the Bill, which represents an essential step forward for the delivery of a lasting memorial for the 72 people who tragically lost their lives as a result of the events of 14 June 2017. Every one of them deserves to be remembered. Their memory ought to be cherished, and Ministers are right to progress this important work to deliver a fitting memorial for the whole of the Grenfell community. Indeed, the memorial is not just for the 72 who died as a result of the Grenfell Tower fire; it is also for the 74 people who were injured and for the friends and families of all those affected by the fire. It is also for those who live nearby and who have links to that community. It is for all those who have been affected by the fire.

I pay tribute to the Minister for continuing the hard work that was initiated under the previous Government. I am also grateful to the Minister in the other place, Samantha Dixon MP, for taking the time to meet me to discuss both this Bill and the ongoing work to support the entire Grenfell community. I also pay tribute to all those who have supported the Grenfell community since the fire, in both national and local government—the MHCLG in particular—the RBKC and its officers, the NHS, the voluntary sectors, the community groups and the memorial trust. Their work has been vital and I know that they will continue to support the Grenfell community.

I turn to the memorial itself. This has taken a long time and that is the right approach. It continues to be essential that work progresses at the community’s pace, not anybody else’s. The Conservative Government ensured that the memorial was budgeted for and I am pleased that the current Government have continued that support. As the Minister said, this is not a political issue. We must work together across political divides to do the right thing for the Grenfell community. Indeed, this is not just a memorial: for many of those who lost their lives in the fire, Grenfell is their final resting place. The site deserves to be treated sensitively and with dignity, particularly for their sake.

In government, we had a cross-governmental committee to ensure that the Government were supporting the Grenfell community. I ask the Minister: how are the Government continuing that cross-government work that we started? The work we did, for example, was on health. This community has health issues unlike any other, both mental and physical: fire, smoke, contamination and all those mental issues that come from being involved in such an incident.

Children’s services were particularly important to me when I was the Minister. The children who had been in their early primary years were now becoming teenagers. Many of them had spent all their childhood in families where Grenfell and the fire were continually there. They saw it day to day when going to and coming back from school, or going to the leisure centre, but their families were also damaged by what they had seen and heard, and what they had lost. I particularly hope, as those young people become teenagers, that we are making sure, across government, that they are supported, protected and helped.

When I talk to the bereaved and survivors, they tell me that there is still no justice, so what are the Government going to do to move this on, to give this community peace and the ability to move forward with their lives? With that in mind, will the Minister confirm that Ministers will continue to engage fully with the Grenfell community as work progresses on the memorial? My honourable friend in the other place, Gareth Bacon MP, said:

“The victims of the Grenfell Tower fire belong at the heart of everything we do in this place and outside it to remember the tragedy”.—[Official Report, Commons, 16/3/26; col. 706.]


That is a principle that Ministers should keep in mind whenever they are working on the memorial and the other measures to support this community. This was a local tragedy but also a national tragedy, and it is right that the nation should remember in a fitting and lasting way all those who were affected by the Grenfell fire.

We on these Benches are clear that the Government must make good all their commitments on funding, so can the Minister confirm that all the funding pledges will be delivered on time and in full? On a related note, the refurbishment of the Lancaster West Estate for those still living there is an essential project to ensure that the estate is fit for the 21st century, and as a lasting legacy from the bad times to a better time in north Kensington.

Will the Minister update the House on progress on the refurbishment? This work is ongoing, but there is still not clarity on the level of further financial support that may come from the Government. Will the Minister confirm when that final detail will be available? If she cannot, will she at least give your Lordships’ House a commitment to expedite this in the interests of local residents who would benefit from urgent clarity? It is clear that any further delays will only be for the worse for that community.

We have debated the Grenfell inquiry in your Lordships’ House on a number of occasions, and we know that there are people who bear some responsibility for the fire who have not yet been held to account. That is very important to the community. Will the Minister please provide the House with an update on progress towards delivering on the recommendations of the inquiry? How are Ministers furthering efforts to ensure that all those who bear responsibility for the events of 14 June 2017 are held accountable?

Before I sit down, I want to reiterate our firm support for this important Bill which will enable the delivery of the much-promised Grenfell Tower memorial. Ministers are right to continue the work of previous Governments to deliver a memorial that will serve the entire Grenfell community and indeed the nation. We wish the project godspeed, with the hope that it will give some closure and peace to the north Kensington community. We will support the Government in everything they are to deliver on promises made to the Grenfell community.

Lord Sharma (Con)

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My Lords, following the 2017 general election, I was appointed Housing and Planning Minister on 13 June by the then Prime Minister, now the noble Baroness, Lady May. That, of course, was the day before the terrible tragedy at Grenfell Tower where 72 people lost their lives—54 adults and 18 children.

As many of your Lordships have noted, this was a tragedy that should never have happened. The Grenfell Tower Inquiry has been very clear that those 72 deaths were “entirely avoidable”, and we have to acknowledge that ultimately this was the result of decades of failure by successive Governments, by myriad institutions and of course by the construction industry. A number of noble Lords, including the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Sanderson and Lady Hazarika, pointed out that so far no one has been prosecuted for this disaster. We know that the criminal investigation remains ongoing, but when charges are brought, and I sincerely hope they are, the full force of the law should be thrown at those found to be culpable.

The immediate initial response to the fire was also simply not good enough. As Ministers, we acknowledged that at the time. I did so in the media and in Parliament. We should have moved much more quickly to put our arms around the grieving and shell-shocked families and communities to offer support and reassurance. The Government did pick up the pace, and in the days and weeks following the tragedy, I and other Ministers spent a significant amount of time listening to and engaging with survivors and the wider Grenfell community to offer immediate support but also to discuss what longer-term support might be required. The noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, set out very eloquently that a lot of what was started then continues today.

I also noted in a parliamentary debate in the other place that hearing the harrowing accounts of the survivors was

“the most humbling and moving experience of my life”.—[Official Report, Commons, 5/7/17; col. 1191.]

That remains the case. If anything, the passage of time has only reinforced to me the real dignity that was maintained by the survivors in the immediate aftermath of the tragedy, despite the unimaginable pain and grief that they faced.

I particularly recall speaking to one survivor when I was meeting families individually at the Westway emergency relief centre to talk about their housing needs. One gentleman had waited patiently for hours to speak to me, and in our conversation I learned that at the time, some members of his family were still unaccounted for, but he wanted nothing for himself. All he asked was that I—we—do everything to prioritise and help find accommodation for survivor families with young children. His was a display of the best of humanity at a very dark and testing time for our nation.

I very much welcome this Grenfell Tower memorial Bill, which will allow for the construction of a permanent and fitting memorial. We all owe enormous gratitude to the community-led Grenfell Tower Memorial Commission, which has worked so diligently over the past years to recommend how the victims of the fire should be remembered. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Roe, for the work that he did that night and subsequently. I totally agree with him that, of course, it is up to the community to decide what this memorial should be like, but I do think that the commission’s recommendations show great sensitivity and awareness about the type of memorial that should be constructed. I particularly welcome the recommendation that the memorial should be a “sacred place”, designed and built to last, for remembering and reflecting, both individually and communally, on who and what we have lost.

It is also vital, as the commission recommends, that there is a long-term public exhibition, which, together with digital archives, will help ensure that current and future generations can learn about and remember the tragedy, the factors that contributed to it and how the Grenfell community responded to it. We must never forget what happened—and what, through years of inaction, and worse, was in effect allowed to happen—on that fateful day. The noble Baronesses, Lady Chakrabarti and Lady Nargund, have noted that this tragedy happened in the middle of one of the most prosperous and advanced cities in the world.

As I understand it, the commission has committed to beginning the memorial’s construction in mid-2027, and the passage of the Bill will help ensure that public money is made available. A permanent Grenfell memorial is vital, but there are other ways in which we can honour the memories of those who lost their lives. First—the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, raised this issue, and I would be interested to hear from the Minister on this—I would like to see the Government deliver on their commitments to help fund the refurbishment of the Lancaster West Estate. I know that the Government are having a constructive dialogue with the local council, but, for the sake of local residents, funding decisions need to be concluded now. Secondly, as many of your Lordships have noted, we need to ensure that the recommendations of the Grenfell inquiry are implemented in a timely manner, so that a tragedy like Grenfell can never be allowed to happen again. I commend the Bill to the House.

Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)

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My Lords, this has been an incredibly moving, thoughtful and serious debate. I begin by thanking noble Lords across the House. The contributions we have heard reflect the weight of Grenfell’s legacy for bereaved families, survivors, the local community and the country as a whole. I want to reflect on those very precious lives, brought to us so vividly in the testimony of my noble friends Lord Roe and Lady Hazarika.

Today’s debate has shown that, whatever our political differences, there is a shared understanding across the House that this Bill is not about party politics. It is about the lasting impact of Grenfell on our national conscience. It is about doing what is right and about keeping faith with those most directly affected by the tragedy. It is about the collective commitment made by Parliament that Grenfell would be remembered with dignity, truth and permanence.

Before I turn to the points raised during the debate, I want to restate very clearly exactly what this Bill does. It is a simple Bill with a focused purpose. It provides Parliament’s authority for the public spending required to deliver the Grenfell Tower memorial so that it can be constructed, cared for and sustained over the long term. It authorises spending on any site where elements of the tower can be laid to rest, in the peace that the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, so powerfully reminded us of, as well as spending on preservation, an archive, an exhibition and land acquisition in support of those activities where needed and for works to that land.

The Bill does not determine the design or location of the memorial, nor does it set governance arrangements for how it will be run. That is because, as many noble Lords have mentioned, this Bill is not about taking control; it is about supporting the community-led design work that is already under way and ensuring that it has the financial backing it needs, with Parliament’s consent. In doing so, the Bill helps ensure that Grenfell is not forgotten, and that remembrance of the tragedy continues to sit alongside and support the Government’s wider programme of reform following Grenfell. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, mentioned my honourable friend in the other place, Minister Dixon. I am so pleased that she has sat patiently in the Gallery all through our debates today to hear what your Lordships had to say.

I will respond to the detailed points raised by noble Lords in a moment. First, I turn to the very powerful testimony of my noble friend Lord Roe, who spoke about the courage of all those involved. I thank him for his service on that dreadful day; I thank all his colleagues in the London fire service and all those who have been involved in supporting the survivors, the families and the community since then. My noble friend put the emphasis on the responsibility to ensure that families, survivors and the community are front and centre of this project. We must honour their memory by ensuring that we continue to strive to move this on in all respects, so that the failure he highlighted is confronted, dealt with and brings justice, safe homes and the lasting legacy that says, “Never again”. I thank my noble friend Lord Roe for his work and testimony.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, my noble friend Lady Nargund, the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Sentamu, and my noble friend Lord Forbes and many others, raised concerns surrounding support for the Grenfell community going forward. Supporting remembrance does not detract from supporting bereaved and survivor families and the immediate community. I reassure noble Lords that we are continuing to work through local authorities, health partners and the community to ensure that those families are supported. The memorial forms part of a long-term national commitment, not an alternative to action elsewhere.

My noble friend Lord Forbes spoke about the centrality of the community whose voices have been ignored, leading to this dreadful tragedy. I reassure him, and others who have spoken about this, that the Department for Education and MHCLG have jointly issued additional funding to Grenfell-affected schools to support children, young people and the entire school population throughout the period of works to carefully take the tower down. Likewise, NHS England has confirmed that Grenfell-specific NHS services will continue to be provided as the tower is taken down. The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, mentioned support for young people involved; that is very important. Departments across government will continue to work together to make sure that we provide the best joined-up service possible.

The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, asked me about funding and whether we had a specific amount. The Bill authorises expenditure but does not approve budgets or set spending levels yet. I reassure the House that detailed funding decisions will be taken through the usual scrutiny and controls set out for managing public money. Introducing a fixed amount at this stage would be premature, particularly in the light of the fact that the community-led design work is still under way.

A number of noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Scott and Lady Sanderson, and the noble Lords, Lord Sharma and Lord Boateng, raised the issue of the Lancaster West estate. To support the refurbishment of the Lancaster West estate, MHCLG has already provided about £25 million in funding. This is in addition to other funding issued to the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea for the Lancaster West estate, including from the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero. The Government have no direct management over the refurbishment of the estate, but I am sure that we will continue to work with colleagues in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea as they complete the refurbishment works and deliver for their community.

Noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Scott, and the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, raised the national oversight mechanism. We recognise that, in the past, inquiry recommendations have been made and accepted but, as one noble friend mentioned, are then left as dusty tomes on the shelf. That must not happen. The Government are continuing to explore ways to improve the transparency and accountability of recommendations made to them by public inquiries. I reassure the House that we will continue to listen to the views of groups that have been impacted by public inquiries so that the Government’s progress towards implementing inquiry recommendations is properly scrutinised. On the Grenfell Inquiry’s recommendations specifically, we will continue to provide progress updates until all the recommendations have been implemented.

My noble friends Lady Dacres and Lady Hyde raised community engagement. My noble friend Lady Dacres spoke about lessons from a community that had not been listened to, and my noble friend Lady Hyde spoke about a relentless focus on voices that had not been heard. I want to be clear that this Bill does not change who leads the design, vision or decision-making for the Grenfell Tower memorial. The Government’s role in the memorial is to facilitate, support and manage technical delivery of the programme; they will not lead memorial design. On behalf of the independent memorial commission, Freehaus, the appointed design team, is now working with the community to develop the design to honour those who lost their lives and those whose lives were for ever changed by the tragedy.

My noble friend Lady Warwick highlighted the housing aspects in relation to the Grenfell tragedy, as well as the avoidable deaths and the need for a change in culture towards transparency. We are committed to continuing to work closely with social landlords and regulators to deliver the joint plan, backed by over £1 billion of investment, to speed up remediation, improve support for residents and maintain momentum against the plan’s target dates, so that unsafe homes are made safe faster and the lessons of Grenfell are never forgotten.

I am doing a specific piece of work around social housing stigma, which sadly still exists. In the case of Grenfell, this was further exacerbated by the racial inequalities powerfully highlighted by my noble friends Lady Nargund and Lady Hyde. We need to work with tenants and the sector to consider how we can tackle this stigma. The noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, raised qualifications in social housing; that is an issue that we are looking at very closely. My noble friend Lady Chakrabarti said, quite rightly, that housing is a human right. I absolutely agree with her on that. We all have all to pick up the lessons we learned from Grenfell in our action on social housing.

I want to reflect on the points made by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, on corporate responsibility. My noble friend Lady Chakrabarti also referred to corruption, cover-up, greed and negligence, as did other noble Peers. On accountability for building safety in the specific case of Grenfell, those responsible must be held to account, and the Government fully support the police in carrying out the investigation. I also flag the forthcoming remediation Bill, which will introduce new criminal penalties for people who refuse to remediate similar fire safety defects to those that existed on Grenfell Tower. I will also take up with the relevant Ministers in the Department for Business and Trade the issue of corporate accountability laws raised here today, and I am happy to take part in further discussions with the noble and learned Lord if he feels that would be helpful.

The Government are currently introducing the Public Office (Accountability) Bill, usually known as the Hillsborough law, which is about public body accountability. The noble and learned Lord made an important point about the need for accountability in respect of corporate bodies too. While I mention the Hillsborough law, I should acknowledge that tomorrow is the anniversary of Hillsborough; I think we should reflect on that and take the action necessary to deal with the recommendations on that.

In relation to the current investigation, I say to my noble friend Lady Chakrabarti that 180 officers and staff are working on this in the Metropolitan Police Service. We want to see the justice that many noble Lords have mentioned during this debate, and I know that that inquiry is being progressed with appropriate resources and as quickly as the Metropolitan Police Service can do it.

A number of noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Forbes and Lady Gill, mentioned cladding remediation—

Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)

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I will write, and I apologise for missing the noble Baroness’s point on that issue.

On the matter of cladding, a number of noble Lords mentioned failures caused by deregulation and a failure to listen to local voices. I reassure the House that for both me and the Minister and the other place, speeding up remediation is one of our top priorities. We are working to get buildings fixed faster and to allow residents to feel safer in their homes. Nearly nine years on from the Grenfell Tower tragedy, there is no justification for any building to remain unsafe. Many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Sikka, have raised issues of negligence in building, and over the past year we have taken steps to remove barriers to remediation, strengthen accountability for those responsible for unsafe buildings, and support residents facing delays or uncertainty.

It is not for this Bill to legislate on remediation matters, but that work, as my noble friend Lord Forbes said, remains a moral responsibility for all of us, and the Government will bring forward a remediation Bill, which will drive forward the remediation of historic unsafe cladding by compelling responsible entities to remediate their buildings by clear targets or risk criminal prosecution. We will bring forward that remediation Bill as soon as parliamentary time allows.

In respect of the Grenfell Tower Memorial Commission, first, I thank my noble friend Lord Boateng as co-chair of the commission, and I thank his fellow co-chair, as he rightly said, for incredible service to the commission, and all the commissioners for the work that they have done, which was powerfully outlined in my noble friend’s speech, The noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, and the noble Lord, Lord Sharma, also mentioned the commission, which is an independent, unincorporated, community-led body. I can confirm that the commission leads on the engagement with the community and the appointed design team is working with the community to determine the design for a lasting and fitting memorial. The Government’s role in the memorial is to facilitate, support and manage the technical delivery of the programme—but I hope that the positive comments made by my noble friend Lord Boateng will be reflected as we go forward with this work, and I look forward to continuing to work with him.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sanderson, mentioned the taking down of the tower—and I know what an incredibly sensitive issue this was. Work has been paused in a particular area of the tower in relation to a recent request to preserve certain elements. Subject to that, work to carefully take down Grenfell Tower is progressing and is due to complete in 2027. This will ensure that it is done respectfully, minimising noise and dust compared with other methods. I reassure all noble Lords that we continue to engage with the bereaved, with survivors and the immediate community during this very sensitive piece of work. I have met the co-ordinator, who is there on site, to discuss this with her. On the particular issue around the helpline, I will confirm the details of that in writing.

A very important matter that has come up during the debate has been the issue of justice. I think nearly all noble Lords who have spoken have mentioned it. I have spoken about the investigation by the Metropolitan Police. Those responsible—and I want to be very clear about this—must be held to account. The Government fully support the police in carrying out the investigation. Of course, it is important that the Government do not take any action that could risk prejudicing those processes, but we must all be focused on the justice that the memory of those lost and the lives of those who survive absolutely demands.

I am so grateful for the very thoughtful scrutiny and contributions offered in this debate. The legacy of Grenfell, the justice, the lessons learned and the memorial must lead us to the light mentioned by my noble friend Lord Boateng—the light of hope for a better future.