Government Policy on Russia

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Tuesday 6th March 2018 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

From his vantage point as Chair of the ISC, my right hon. and learned Friend has been following this very closely. I undertake to get back to him on that matter as soon as possible.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary rightly says that no attempt on an innocent life on our soil should go uninvestigated or unpunished. I would not expect him to comment on the investigation that is currently under way—obviously we all have concerns for the welfare of the two individuals—but what about the 14 suspicious deaths that several Members have now raised?

In many of those cases, UK authorities concluded that the deaths were suicides, despite the fact that there has now been considerable reported evidence, including in the BuzzFeed report, casting serious doubt on those conclusions. There are also claims that US intelligence may have provided further evidence to the contrary in those 14 individual cases, and there are serious questions about whether the police investigations were thorough enough. As a result of what he has said, will the Foreign Secretary now discuss urgently with the Home Secretary whether a National Crime Agency investigation, or other form of police investigation, and review of all 14 cases should now take place?

[Boris Johnson]

The right hon. Lady is perfectly right to say that, as my hon. Friend the Member for Tonbridge and Malling (Tom Tugendhat) pointed out, there are a number of deeply troubling cases, such as that of Mr Perepilichnyy. To the best of our knowledge at present, there is no further evidence that points in the direction of criminality, but what she says is very important. We will certainly follow it up and I will certainly have that discussion with the Home Secretary.

Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Monday 13th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

It is one of the features of British consular protection that we give it to dual nationals, irrespective of whether their British nationality is recognised by the country in which they run into trouble. That is a mark of the dedication of our consular staff to their job. We will continue to work for Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe and the other difficult consular cases in Iran for as long as those cases are outstanding.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary has rightly said that the priority for everyone should be the return of a wrongfully and inhumanely imprisoned mother, who has been separated from her child. That is welcome, but he also knows that words matter. Every time he says things such as, “My words were simply open to misinterpretation”, he provides a lack of clarity and sounds as if he is wriggling in a way that other people can exploit. For the sake of Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe, will he say unequivocally for the record, “I got it wrong”?

[Boris Johnson]

I hope that the House will understand with crystal clarity that Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe was there on holiday. She was not there in any professional capacity. In so far as people got a different impression from what I was saying at the FAC, that was my mistake. I should have been clearer—[Interruption.] With great respect, Members should listen to what I am saying. I should have been clearer. It was my mistake; I should have been clearer. I apologise for the distress and anguish that has been caused to Mrs Zaghari-Ratcliffe and her family. Our priority now is to do everything we can to get her out of Iran on humanitarian grounds.

Counter-Daesh Update

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

I thank my hon. Friend for the eloquent way he expressed himself on that point. This country and this House are indeed great friends of Kurdistan. They well remember the role played by the Conservative Government in 1991 in that mountainous region with the setting up of safe havens for the Kurds, which were the origin of the Kurdish Regional Government of today. I see doughty campaigners on the Opposition Benches who have also played a major role.

The Kurds can be in no doubt about our lasting friendship, but we did say to them that the referendum was not the right way forward. The best course now for our Kurdish friends is surely to take advantage of Mr Abadi, who is their best possible hope, and to enter into a solid and substantial negotiation with him.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The Foreign Secretary had a week to correct the record and to apologise over Ms Zaghari-Ratcliffe, and he has not done so. This is not the first time that the Foreign Secretary has said things that are inaccurate or damaging, and he cannot simply shrug them off as a lack of clarity or a careless choice of words.

In this case, there are fears that this could mean the extended incarceration of a British-Iranian woman. The right hon. Gentleman knows that the lives and safety of British citizens across the globe depend on having a Foreign Secretary who does not bluster and who is not too careless or too lazy to consider his words. Will he now apologise? Does he accept that he cannot be trusted to do this job and that he should resign?

[Boris Johnson]

I really think that I have already made my position clear. Indeed, the Iranians have also made their position clear. There was absolutely no connection with anything that was said in the Foreign Affairs Committee last week. By the way, I see assorted members of the Committee here today, and they passed no comment on it. Those remarks had no impact on the judicial process in Tehran.

Rather than posturing and engaging in party political point-scoring, we need to recognise the extreme sensitivity of these negotiations and get on with securing the release of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. That is why I am going to Tehran in the course of the next few weeks. I agree that it will not be easy at all because it is a very difficult negotiation, but that is the effort to which the Foreign Office is devoted and dedicated, and it deserves the right hon. Lady’s full support.

US Immigration Policy

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Boris Johnson]

My right hon. Friend is entirely right, in the sense that the Prime Minister succeeded the other day in getting her message across about NATO and President Trump affirmed very strongly his commitment to that alliance; it is vital for our security, particularly the article 5 guarantee, and the new President is very much in the right place on that. [Interruption.] He said so. It is totally right, of course, that the incoming President of our closest and most important ally should be accorded the honour of a state visit. That is supported by this Government and the invitation has been extended by Her Majesty the Queen, quite properly.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

This is not just about the impact on British citizens. One of our closest allies has chosen to ban refugees and target Muslims, and all the Foreign Secretary can say is that it would not be our policy. That is not good enough. Has he urged the US Administration to lift this order, to help refugees and to stop targeting Muslims? This order was signed on Holocaust Memorial Day; for the sake of history, for heaven’s sake have the guts to speak out.

[Boris Johnson]

As I say, it is open to Opposition MPs—indeed, MPs on both sides of the House—to come forward with yet fresher expressions of outrage about the presidential Executive order. They are entitled to do that. I share the widespread disquiet and I have made my views absolutely clear. I have said that it is divisive, I have said that it is wrong, and I have said that it stigmatises people on grounds of their nationality. But I will not do what I think the Labour party would do, which is disengage from conversations with our American friends and partners in such a way as to do material damage to the interests of UK citizens. We have secured important protections for people in this country, and that is the job of this Government.

Changes in US Immigration Policy

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2017 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North (Edward Miliband) for calling for this Standing Order No. 24 debate, and the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) for making such a very moving speech on such an important issue.

There is a brave seven-year-old called Bana Alabed, a Syrian refugee who has drawn the support and praise of the whole world for tweeting from Aleppo throughout the bombing—tweeting about her reading, her friends and the fact that she wants to be a teacher, and tweeting a desperate plea for peace. She and her mother are now in Turkey, and she is continuing, as a seven-year-old, to be an ambassador for peace. She has been tweeting again about her wish to meet up with friends from across the world who have supported her in this. Giving a voice to refugees from all over world, she has already met international campaigners and leaders, yet she has been banned from the United States indefinitely for being Syrian—and she is just seven years old. That is the destructive impact of this ban.

With the flick of a pen, the President has banned not only Bana Alabed but a Syrian family who had spent many years building up their savings, got all the visas correct, and been given clearance to come to the United States as refugees to join family in Pennsylvania; they were turned away at Philadelphia airport on Saturday morning and sent back. They had done everything right, but they were turned away. This comes from a country that has always led the world in welcoming the poor, the hungry, those fleeing persecution and the persecuted—the huddled masses—to its shores. That is what makes this Executive order so tragic for all of us.

What is happening right now also feels so tragic because, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Doncaster North said in his powerful speech, we cherish the values that the United States has always shared with the world—the values that we, too, have tried to champion. The Executive order bans refugees from Syria indefinitely, those from other countries for at least several months, and everyone from several Muslim countries, but there is a readiness to exempt those who are not Muslims.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

I congratulate the hon. Members who secured this debate. Does the right hon. Lady share my concern about the case of the Glasgow vet, Hamaseh Tayari, who was denied even a transit visa through the United States because of the confusion that this policy has caused? Does she welcome the support that Glasgow University, where she is a vet, has offered? Is she aware that Glasgow University educated James McCune Smith, who was the first black doctor? He was born a slave in New York in 1813, and after his education in Glasgow returned to the United States and had a very important career as a medic and an educator. Does she wonder what sort of opportunities would be allowed to the likes of him if this kind of policy remains in place?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. That intervention was rather long. I encourage colleagues to contribute for approximately five minutes each, but that will not be much help if Members who intervene choose to imitate those who have the Floor.

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Member for Glasgow North (Patrick Grady) is right. There are so many of these irrational cases and personal stories that make no sense for the United States or for us.

For the Foreign Secretary to have said earlier that this is not a Muslim ban is the worst kind of diplomatic obfuscation. The Trump Administration themselves have made it clear that it is a Muslim ban. The fact that it targets particular countries but has a potential exemption for those who are not Muslim shows the prejudice and discrimination that lies at the heart of this, and it is something for which President Trump campaigned for very many months.

[Mr Mark Hendrick (Preston) (Lab/Co-op)]

It seems that while UK nationals with dual nationality may be admitted to the US, the European Commission cannot at the moment verify whether that would also apply to those from other EU member states. Could my right hon. Friend comment on that?

[Yvette Cooper]

There is a whole series of unanswered questions about what happens not just in the case of dual nationals or UK citizens, but EU citizens and other nationals who may be resident in the United Kingdom and want to travel to the United States.

The hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon described his personal experiences. I know that everyone in the House would want to stand with him against any sense of discrimination that he feels and wrongly faces. I think he would agree that, as he said powerfully, this is not simply about the rights of British citizens—it goes so much further and wider. It is about the shared values that have underpinned generations of co-operation between this country and one of our closest allies. Under our democracy and our common humanity, we have both built into our written and unwritten constitutions a condemnation of discrimination. We have worked together, over very many years, against prejudice and hatred, so it is deeply immoral for this ban to target Muslims in this way, and we should not be afraid to say so.

We have also worked together on international policy on refugees—to support the Geneva convention and the UN’s work, and to resettle refugees, including Syrian refugees from all over the world. The US has always played a historic role in resettling those refugees. For the United States to, in effect, pull out of the Geneva convention and that international co-operation is deeply damaging to a United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees programme that all of us should want to champion. We should be prepared to speak out about that.

The ban also threatens our security. It is immediately counterproductive to prevent from entering the US those Iraqi citizens in the Iraqi Government and armed forces with whom the US may need to work in the fight against IS. Inevitably, the Iraqi Parliament has responded by saying that American citizens will be prevented from entering Iraq. We need these countries to work closely together, and with us, in order to defeat terrorist extremists. We should be fighting against them together, and not be divided.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

Obviously, most people in this country are appalled by the actions of the President of the United States in relation to the Muslim community. Having said that, on immigration, only about 15,000 refugees have been taken by the United States, so it is not as though it has been swamped.

[Yvette Cooper]

It is true that, as a proportion of the United States population, the number of Syrian refugees who have gone there is relatively small. However, as a proportion of those who need support and resettlement, that contribution has been important, so it is very damaging to our international support for refugees for the United States to pull out of that co-operation. That is why the United Kingdom Government have a responsibility, not to just say a few words under pressure in this House, but to raise concerns directly with the US Administration, and why so many Members are concerned and frustrated. The Government delayed making any response or criticism. We hear now that the Prime Minister was told about the ban before it happened on Friday, yet she did not speak out about it, even when the Turkish President, standing alongside her, was prepared to do so. The British Government were prepared, rightly, to raise the issue of human rights with Turkey, but they did not raise concerns about what President Trump was doing.

There are limits to what the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary are prepared to say, even now. When I asked the Foreign Secretary directly whether he had urged the US Administration to drop the ban, he refused to say. Frankly, from everything he did say, we can only conclude that the UK Government still refuse to ask the US Administration to drop this ban, abandon this targeting of Muslims and do their bit again to help refugees. I hope that the Minister will put me right and say that we have got it wrong, and that Ministers have, privately behind the scenes, been urging the US Administration to change their policy. It is crucial that they do so. That is the point of having a special relationship and a good friendship: being able to speak the truth to power and say the difficult things. If Ministers are not prepared to do that, what does that say to British Muslims and others around the world who feel targeted? And what does it say to those whom President Trump may target next? This could be only the start—we do not know. This is what President Trump has done within just a few days of taking office. Where will he go next? What will it take for us to be prepared to speak out, if our Government are not prepared to speak out yet?

[Heidi Allen (South Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

Does the right hon. Lady agree that, given that this is a brand-new relationship between our Prime Minister and the President, now is the time to set the ground rules? This is the beginning of the relationship and we need to set out, for all the world to see, what we consider to be appropriate in terms of behaviour and policy.

[Yvette Cooper]

I certainly agree with the hon. Lady. It is immensely important to establish the principles on which we will work.

I will explain why I think the state visit matters. I want the Prime Minister to meet President Trump frequently, and I want her to influence, persuade and challenge him. I also want President Trump to hear the views of people across Britain and to understand the strength of feeling about a country that we care about, but with whose actions we disagree. I am deeply worried that it will be not a normal visit by a Head of Government, but a ceremonial state visit involving our royal family, who for so long have united the country and whom we have tried to ensure are kept separate from politics and the deep, divisive arguments that countries across the world sometimes have.

By rushing into this state visit, I fear that the Government will do the opposite of what they want to achieve, and that instead of it being a celebration of friendship and shared values and a sign of increased co-operation, it will show huge divisions and our huge concern about what President Trump is doing. It will look like an endorsement of a ban that is so morally wrong and that we should be standing against.

We should also remember that the Executive order was signed on Holocaust Memorial Day. If ever there was a day to remember why we need to have the courage to speak out against prejudice and hatred, Holocaust Memorial Day is it. The Prime Minister’s words in the book of remembrance on Holocaust Memorial Day state:

“Our commitment to remember the Holocaust is about more than words—it is about action. It is about raising awareness, spreading understanding, ensuring the memory of the Holocaust lives on, and standing up to prejudice and hatred wherever it is found today…Together we will educate every generation to learn from the past and to take responsibility for shaping a better, brighter future in which through our actions, as well as our words, we truly never forget.”

That really is a responsibility not just on all of us, but on our Prime Minister, who was told on Holocaust Memorial Day about this ban, which targets Muslims because of their faith and turns away refugees who are fleeing genocide and persecution. Just as we have been advised so many times to speak out when we see prejudice and discrimination, there is an obligation on the Prime Minister to speak out now.

I, like many, feared that the decision to offer President Trump a state visit was too hasty, because we did not know what he would do or the direction in which he would take his country. Now that we do know, I urge the Prime Minister and the Foreign Office to work with the US Administration to find an alternative way and to make this an ordinary visit, so that they can hold discussions and debates, and so that we can put pressure on the United States to change its position. The United States is proud of its constitution and of the words on the Statue of Liberty, which proclaim:

“Give me your tired, your poor,

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe…

Send these…tempest-tost to me,

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

It is because we want our countries together to be able to lift the lamp beside the golden door that the Prime Minister and the Government should speak out now.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Alan Duncan]

I will tell the right hon. Gentleman exactly what we have achieved. We have achieved an outcome in which all British passport holders remain welcome to travel to the United States, which would not have happened if my colleagues in Government had not made the contacts they did.

[Yvette Cooper]

rose—

[Sir Alan Duncan]

No, I will not give way. I am going to explain this.

We have received assurances from the US embassy that the Executive order will make no difference to any British passport holder, irrespective of their country of birth or whether they hold another passport—[Interruption.] The right hon. Member for Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford (Yvette Cooper) has asked, “What about residents?” I am holding her back from intervening so that I can answer her question. We are advised that the only material change for the UK is that citizens of any of the seven designated countries who do not hold a British passport but are legally resident in the UK will still be able to apply for visas, but that they may face additional screening at their port of entry into the United States. I apologise for making the right hon. Lady wait to intervene.

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

The Minister is making a thoughtful speech, and I welcome the work that Ministers have done to safeguard the interests of British citizens. However, may I ask him about the wider points? Has the Foreign Office made representations to the US Administration to lift the refugee ban in the interests of international refugee policy, and to stop the targeting of Muslims in the interests of our shared values and common security?

[Sir Alan Duncan]

Given that the emergency debate has had me rushing to the Dispatch Box at short notice, I have not been involved in any such discussions so I cannot give the right hon. Lady a categorical answer, but one can speculate on what political events might now unfold. Executive orders are, at least, limited for 90 days. They are a command from the president to instruct Congress to do something, so the order will now move to Congress within the democratic process of the United States. They have their democracy as we have ours, and this will ultimately be their political decision. I have no doubt that there will be strong political voices within the United States, as we have heard today in this House and, indeed, outside it.

I reiterate that the order is not the kind of policy of which this Government approve or would ever introduce. As the Foreign Secretary said in his statement earlier, we have already made very clear our anxiety about measures that discriminate on grounds of nationality in ways that we consider to be divisive and wrong. Indeed, it does not really help—although it is true—to say that, although all the countries listed are Muslim countries, the list does not include all Muslim countries. In fact, the vast majority—[Interruption.] The hon. Member for Bethnal Green and Bow (Rushanara Ali) might just listen to the point I am trying to make. Although the vast majority of the Muslim world is not mentioned in the Executive order, the political language around it is unacceptably anti-Muslim. As such, it is divisive and wrong, and will cause an effect in the entire Muslim community.

As the Prime Minister expressed during her visit to the States last week, the point of having a special relationship is to have frank and honest discussions on all issues, whether we agree or disagree. We do not hesitate to state that, although US immigration policy is ultimately a matter for the US Government, we do not agree with this kind of approach. It would be wrong to think that the relationship means that we agree on every issue. That has never been the case throughout the history of the special relationship. One could cite the example of former Labour Prime Minister Harold Wilson not joining the US in fighting in Vietnam.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon clearly said—frankly, he has spoken in today’s debate with extraordinarily personal and moral authority—we should not forget the indispensable nature of this country’s alliance with the US. In defence, intelligence and security, we work together more closely than any other two countries in the world. America’s leadership role in NATO, which the Prime Minister was able to reaffirm and reconfirm in her visit, is the ultimate guarantor of security in Europe. The President told the Prime Minister of his 100% commitment to NATO. The trade relationship is of importance; we export more to the US than any other nation. The relationship is overwhelmingly to our benefit. I believe very strongly that the Prime Minister’s visit to the White House last week underlined the strength of that transatlantic alliance. Where we have differences with the United States, we will not shy away from them, and we will express them clearly, as I have done today, but I also echo the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister in repeating our resolve to work alongside the Trump Administration in our mutual interest.

EU-Turkey Agreement

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Wednesday 9th March 2016 Commons Chamber

[Mr Lidington]

The EU and the United Kingdom Government made it very clear last week that we continue to see freedom of the press and freedom of expression in the media as a cornerstone of the values that we champion at an international level. Adherence to those principles is written into the European treaties, and no country that fails to subscribe to them can expect to receive EU membership.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

The principle of closing off the dangerous smuggler routes and instead providing safe legal routes to sanctuary is clearly sensible, but the Minister will know of the legal, practical and political problems with the plans put forward. He rightly makes it clear that there will be no changes to Turkish visa arrangements for Britain, but I suspect that in many others areas of the proposals there will be significant changes in the week ahead. In particular, have the British Government raised the plight of Afghan and Iraqi refugees? We know that about half the lone children who claimed asylum in Europe in January were from Afghanistan. What provision will be made for them?

[Mr Lidington]

The right hon. Lady makes a reasonable point, and the position of people who have come from other war-torn countries needs to be seriously considered, but we need always to bear in mind the basic principles of the 1951 UN convention on refugees: first, that to get refugee status one must demonstrate a well-founded fear of persecution; and secondly, that when somebody flees they are expected to apply for refugee status in the first safe country they reach, and not try to pick and choose, perhaps at the behest of people traffickers, between various safe countries.

Ukraine, Middle East, North Africa and Security

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Wednesday 10th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

As many hon. Members have said, this has been a wide-ranging and deeply thoughtful debate. At a time when, understandably, many Members of all parties are focusing on the Union and our own constitutional debate, it is important that today, on behalf of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, we have debated how to keep all our citizens safe using our enviable international power, partnerships, intelligence infrastructure, military capabilities and other resources. We have discussed how to protect our own people as well as civilians overseas, and how to protect and pursue our values for those who are caught up in horrific conflicts.

[Mr McFadden]

Does my right hon. Friend think that that point is particularly important given that Glasgow airport suffered its own terrorist attack a couple of years ago, which shows that the whole UK faces the same threat from the forces that are attacking our way of life?

[Yvette Cooper]

We do face the same threats right across the United Kingdom, and we stand together most effectively against those threats when we work together, including our intelligence and security agencies and police forces. We should pay tribute to those bodies, because they work immensely hard throughout the Union, as has been reflected in today’s debate.

Members across the House have shown great experience in their contributions, particularly in foreign affairs, which shows how seriously we take the threats to regional and global stability, as well as to our interests at home. This has been a difficult debate to sum up, because the range of contributions has been so diverse. I therefore say to the Government that adding those four issues together in a single debate has perhaps strained its nature and made it complex to respond to.

We heard about the principles of foreign policy and how far we should learn from our international history. The right hon. and learned Member for Rushcliffe (Mr Clarke) spoke about Iraq, the hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (Rory Stewart) about Afghanistan, and my hon. Friend the Member for Barrow and Furness (John Woodcock) about Syria, and they mentioned the lessons of each of those decisions. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) warned that we must learn from the past but not be imprisoned by it.

We debated how far we should engage and Britain’s role in the world, and the right hon. Members for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) and for North Somerset (Dr Fox) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Neath (Mr Hain) had different perspectives on what Britain’s role could be. As the shadow Foreign Secretary made clear, in a complex world with new and complex threats, it is ever more important for us to work through partnerships and alliances, rather than to seek isolation.

We have debated the roles of strategy and the principles of military engagement and diplomacy or, as my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart) said, how we use the weapons of the military and the weapons of the mind. We heard a detailed contribution from my right hon. Friend the Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) who spoke about the importance of Iran, and other hon. Members mentioned Turkey. My right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd) and the hon. Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Nadhim Zahawi) debated the Iraqi Government, and the right hon. Member for Croydon South (Sir Richard Ottaway) and my hon. Friend the Member for Bishop Auckland (Helen Goodman) spoke about sanctions and Russia. The hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Turner) and others spoke about the awful conditions in Gaza, and the need to break out of the cycle of violence.

The right hon. Member for North East Bedfordshire (Alistair Burt) spoke about events and the response to ISIL, and rightly argued about the importance of that response being led by those in the region—the Iraqi Government, the Kurdish Regional Government and members of the Arab League. My hon. Friend the Member for Leicester West (Liz Kendall) said that we cannot turn our backs or walk away, and that we are most effective when we work in partnership.

We have had a wide-ranging debate on all those issues, but in my remaining minutes I want to concentrate on security, and particularly the implications for domestic security. Although most of the debate has been about ISIL and the threat it poses, we have been warned for many months by the Security Service about the threat that ISIL and the conflict in Syria have been posing to our domestic security at home. That was brought savagely home to us by the terrible videos of the beheadings of American journalists, with a British voice being heard, and the threat to British citizens who are kidnapped. As the Foreign Secretary said earlier, that appears to be at the hands of a British citizen who has joined the barbarism, and we have been warned about many of our citizens who have become involved.

We have had threats from extremists against Britain before, so this is not new. Since 9/11, 330 people have been convicted of terrorism-related offences in Britain. We have seen attacks inspired by al-Qaeda, and attacks carried out or attempted by British citizens—some trained abroad, many radicalised at home. Last year we had the awful attack on Drummer Lee Rigby, and the murder by a right-wing extremist of Mohammed Saleem.

We stand against extremism and violence in all its forms wherever we see it, whether that is by condemning the appalling rise in anti-Semitic attacks or the awful increase in Islamophobic attacks, or condemning those who become involved in terrorist organisations or extremist groups and who do not share our values, no matter that they may have been born or brought up in Britain.

Those who join ISIL extremists are going to join no Spanish civil war. They are beheading people and parading their heads on spikes, subjugating women and girls, and killing Muslims, Christians and anyone who gets in their way. As many hon. Members have said clearly, this is no liberation movement; it is a perverted, oppressive ideology that bears no relation to Islam. Some of the strongest voices against young Britons joining the conflict have been Muslim youth groups, communities and parents desperate to stop young people going. We agree with the Government that more needs to be done to prevent young people from being drawn into the conflict and to deal with the threat they pose.

More could also be done to improve the situation. We have called for improvements to the Prevent programme. The Home Secretary has said previously that before 2010 the programme was flawed but has now been improved, and she has defended its effectiveness. I hope she will review that because there are gaps in the programme. There were flaws in it before and there are flaws in it now. Things change all the time and more needs to be done, working with communities to support community-led programmes to prevent young people from being radicalised.

The programme must keep up with new methods of radicalisation. Young people are now being recruited not simply by traditional methods, but by appeals through social media, contacts from friends and so on—different kinds of approaches that need to be responded to. Excellent work is being done by the Channel programme, but more people, particularly those returning from the region, must be required to engage immediately with the programme, which has done important work de-radicalising people and reducing the threat. The Government should also do more in respect of temporary passport seizures. Some who left should have been stopped, and we look forward to working with the Government on ways to bring in those powers.

I hope the Home Secretary will say more about the measures the Prime Minister announced, because there is some confusion around them. Downing street has briefed that people born as British citizens will be prevented from returning to the country, even if they have no alternative citizenship. The Prime Minister says that this would comply with international obligations—international law prevents countries from making their citizens stateless—and has said it would be a targeted, discretionary power to allow us to exclude British nationals from the UK. It sounds as though the Government intend people to remain British citizens but be kept out of the country. How would this work? Do they hope that other countries will adopt people? Is this a temporary exclusion? Are they to be detained at foreign airports or to be deported somewhere else? What is the plan? There is considerable confusion, and no one has yet been able to understand their intention.

On the proposals for terrorism prevention and investigation measures, the Prime Minister has said that relocation powers will be restored, but the Deputy Prime Minister has said they are looking only at existing powers. The Home Secretary knows our view: we have argued from the start that the police and security services need relocation powers at their disposal, subject to the agreement of the courts, to be used in the difficult cases of terror suspects who, for complex reasons, cannot be prosecuted. She has defended the removal of relocation powers in the past, but I hope she will now recognise the importance of reintroducing them. None of those relocated under control orders ever absconded, whereas two of those in whose cases the relocation powers were removed under TPIMs did then abscond. She has not confirmed that relocation powers will be introduced or said when they will be introduced. The powers are ready, in the clauses drafted and scrutinised as part of emergency legislation, and we stand ready to bring them in as soon as she brings them forward. Will she confirm that she intends to do so?

This has been a complex and thoughtful debate. The challenge is to protect our security and the values of our democracy. In certain areas, we need not only strong powers but strong checks and balances to protect the values and the liberty of our democracy, as well as the safety of our citizens. The challenge abroad is to act with humility but determination and to pursue the co-operation and collaboration we need at a time when those threats are becoming more complex than ever.

Tunisia

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Monday 17th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on Tunisia and the Government’s assistance to British nationals.

[The Minister for Europe (Mr David Lidington)]

I welcome this opportunity to update the House on recent events in Tunisia and on what is being done to assist British nationals there.

The House will be aware that, following a month of protests over Government corruption and the lack of political and economic reform, a state of emergency was declared and President Ben Ali left Tunisia for Saudi Arabia. I hope that the House will join me in expressing our sympathy to all those whose friends and relatives have been killed or injured in the disturbances.

The Speaker of the Tunisian House of Deputies, Fouad Mebazaa, has been appointed interim President in line with the constitution, and he has asked Prime Minister Mohammed Ghannouchi to form a Government of national unity. Talks continue with opposition parties and with civil society to try to agree a way forward, and we hope that there will be an announcement on the new Government later today.

When the situation deteriorated, an estimated 5,000 British nationals were in Tunisia, most of them tourists on package holidays. We changed our travel advice to “all but essential travel” on 14 January, since when more than 3,000 British citizens have left Tunisia; many of them were able to leave on additional flights laid on thanks to the swift response of tour operators, and we believe that approximately 1,000 British nationals now remain in Tunisia. That number is largely made up of long-term residents, as well as dual nationals and some independent travellers. Many of those still in Tunisia do not wish to leave and have told our consular staff that.

Despite exceptionally challenging conditions, the embassy is working to help to resolve the crisis and to provide support to British nationals in Tunisia. We have sent a six-person rapid deployment team from London and two members of staff from elsewhere in the region to reinforce embassy staff in Tunis and to provide constant consular assistance. We have established a 24-hour hotline in Tunisia and in London that people can ring for help and advice, and we have staff at Tunis airport who are liaising with airlines and seeking to help British travellers with medical, passport and other consular issues.

Our embassy staff remain in regular contact with our network of wardens across Tunisia, better to understand the evolving picture around the country and keep those British citizens that we are aware of informed of updates as the situation evolves. We are keeping those British nationals who have registered on LOCATE updated on developments through regular e-mails.

I spoke to our ambassador in Tunis earlier this afternoon. He informed me that his staff are now receiving very few consular calls, and those who are calling are mostly asking for updates on the security situation. We continue to advise against all non-essential travel to Tunisia. We advise anyone in the country who does not have a pressing need to be there to leave by commercial means. The airports are operating, and airlines are flying into and out of Tunisia. Those who are still in the country should respect advice or instructions given by the local security authorities and tour operators and avoid rallies and demonstrations. There is no indication that British nationals are being targeted by looters or rioters, but given the unpredictability of the situation there is always the chance of their being caught up in incidental violence, and our advice is that if any British citizen is in doubt about the safety of his or her location they should stay in their accommodation.

At the political level, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has been working with partners, including especially those in the European Union, to promote a peaceful outcome and longer-term political reform. As soon as possible, we will be seeking to engage the Tunisian authorities to help with this. We encourage all involved to do what they can to restore law and order, and we call for the full inclusion of all legal political parties in the formation of an interim Government.

The change in Tunisia in the past few days has been profound, but it is not yet the political reform that many Tunisians hope for. The authorities should not ignore the voice of the Tunisian people. The British Government will work with partners to try to ensure an orderly move towards free and fair elections and an expansion of political freedom in Tunisia. There were extended EU discussions on Friday. We have been calling for a speedy and substantial offer of EU support to underpin the move to free and fair elections, which will be critical in re-establishing calm and security in the country.

Today, the High Representative, Baroness Ashton, has issued a statement, saying:

“The EU stands ready to provide immediate assistance to prepare and organise the electoral process and lasting support to a genuine democratic transition.”

We shall continue to provide the help and advice that British nationals need and expect, and to engage with and support Tunisia, as it works for peace and security.

[Yvette Cooper]

I thank the Minister for his statement and join him in expressing condolences to those who have lost family or friends in these difficult circumstances. Even after President Ben Ali’s departure, which brings to an end a repressive regime, the situation in Tunisia remains tense and uncertain, with prospects for only a fragile interim Government; outbreaks of looting are taking place, alongside continued legitimate protests.

May I ask the Minister about consular support and future Government policy on Tunisia? The Opposition welcome the considerable work done by many of the tour operators to evacuate thousands of people over the weekend. However, I am concerned that the Government were slow off the mark in responding to this situation. On Friday, the Minister responsible for consular policy told the BBC that

“We are not at that moment advising that people make an effort to leave Tunisia.”

Yet a state of emergency was announced that afternoon, following seven days of violence, and tour operators were already bringing British nationals back to the UK. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office did not publicly change its travel advice until Saturday, and the rapid deployment team did not leave the UK until Sunday. British holidaymakers in Tunisia were put in a very confusing and alarming position. They were told by Ministers that they did not need to leave, just as their holiday reps were telling them that there would be emergency evacuations. Does he agree that the Government were too slow to act?

How many British nationals does the Minister believe will still be in Tunisia following today’s flights? Is he confident that sufficient help is in place for independent travellers who wish to return and still need assistance? He will be aware that British Airways has advised its customers that the next return flight to the UK is not until Wednesday, so will he join me in urging BA to provide additional capacity for its passengers tonight or tomorrow? Many tour operators are not yet offering refunds or alternative holidays for people who were due to travel to Tunisia after Wednesday this week. If it is too dangerous to travel there, it is surely unfair to expect holidaymakers to cancel and incur the full financial cost, so I urge tour operators to extend the scope of their refund offers. May I ask the Minister to meet major tour operators to deal with this crucial issue?

Finally, on the Government’s approach to the broader situation, will the Minister tell us whether the Foreign Secretary has spoken to the interim Prime Minister? The ending of the authoritarian regime must be a turning point for a country that, for too long, was under a repressive Administration that denied the Tunisian people their basic democratic freedoms and economic opportunities. I agree with many of the Minister’s points about the importance of Tunisia having free, fair and democratic elections to establish a sustainable and legitimate Government, and I welcome the work being done in the EU. Will he continue to press the EU to support elections, including with possible election observers and practical assistance? The Government have been slow off the mark this week, but we look forward to their being swifter in their response in future.

[Mr Lidington]

The fact that the great majority of British citizens in Tunisia have been able to leave swiftly, with consular support and advice, indicates that the Government’s response has not been lax in the way the right hon. Lady describes. Clearly, as with any such event that makes sudden demands on our consular services, we will examine any lessons that need to be learned from this episode, but I am sure that she will want to join me in recognising the work and commitment of consular staff, both those UK-based and those locally recruited and working in our embassy in Tunis.

The right hon. Lady asks how many British citizens are still in Tunisia, and our best estimate is about 1,000. One thing that our network of wardens will be doing is trying to find out, by making contact with expatriates and dual nationals in particular, exactly what the remaining numbers are and how many wish to leave. I have been advised by the embassy in the past couple of hours that some holidaymakers are telling us that they would prefer to stay in Tunis to see whether there is a chance of resuming their holiday, in the hope that things calm down there.

I would welcome British Airways or other airlines making additional provision to bring back independent travellers, but that is a commercial matter for them. So, too, are the relationships between customers and tour operators regarding possible refunds for holidays that have had to be cut short or cancelled. As the right hon. Lady and I both know, most decent travel insurance policies will have a clause that provides for reimbursement in the case of such an event. I am sure that those companies will be in touch with their customers as soon as possible to try to reach amicable outcomes. My colleagues in the Department for Transport are in frequent touch with the travel industry, but such matters are best addressed, if possible, between companies and their individual customers.

I should add that we are actively working with the Ministry of Defence on contingency plans should an evacuation of British nationals be needed. At the moment, our judgment is that that is not necessary, but I want to reassure the right hon. Lady and the House that we are not simply sitting back and assuming that things will improve. We have contingency plans in place should matters get considerably worse.

Finally, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary hopes to speak to the interim leadership of Tunisia as soon as possible. I am sure that the right hon. Lady will understand that the leadership’s first priority is to try to set up the much-needed Government of national unity. I hope that it is successful in that endeavour.

Oral Answers to Questions

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Alistair Burt]

I will ask our posts in Sri Lanka to consider it carefully. The fact that more people need to return to the areas from which they were removed is another measure of the steps that are necessary in the post-conflict resolution, and although we have seen a great deal of progress over the years, more needs to be done.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

As the Minister will know, recent additional footage from Channel 4 has shown Sri Lankan forces executing civilians at the end of the conflict. He described the ICRC as an independent international monitor, but, as he will also know, there is serious concern about the continued lack of independent and transparent investigation of alleged war crimes in the country. Have Ministers urged the Sri Lankan Government to support a properly independent inquiry with international involvement, and did the Secretary of State for Defence also raise those points in his meeting with the Sri Lankan President earlier this month?

[Alistair Burt]

Our Government have made very clear to the Government of Sri Lanka that any process involving the examination of war crimes or other issues must be credible and must have an independent element. We suggested recently that those appointed to a United Nations panel should be the interlocutors with whom it would be wise for the Sri Lankans to be involved in an effort to influence the international community. They have the first responsibility in dealing with the inquiry, but if there is to be credibility in the international community it is essential for there to be an international element, and for the issues that have been raised recently to be looked into extremely carefully.

[Yvette Cooper]

I welcome and agree with what the Minister has said, but I urge him to go further in pressing the Sri Lankan Government to accept international involvement in order to increase the credibility of the report.

The Minister did not answer my question about whether the Defence Secretary had also raised the issue, and I must press him for clarity. The Sri Lankan Ministry of External Affairs has said that the President and the Defence Secretary had

“discussed areas of assistance to Sri Lanka”,

and that

“There was agreement that the friendship between Sri Lanka and the UK should be strengthened”.

Will the Minister tell the House what status that agreement has, and whether all Ministers are taking every opportunity to press for a credible investigation of war crimes?

[Alistair Burt]

The interest taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State in Sri Lanka dates back to his time as a junior Foreign Office Minister in 1996, when he helped to broker a ceasefire in the conflict that was taking place then. He has retained that interest, and it is very helpful to the Government as a whole to have an interlocutor with such long-standing relationships.

The United Kingdom Government are united in respect of the issues that we raise with Sri Lanka. That process involves helping the Sri Lankan Government to understand what the international community requires, in monitoring what is currently happening, in access of NGOs to detainees, in further reconciliation following the conflict, and in providing opportunity for independent experts to be involved in the inquiry. The Defence Secretary fully understands and appreciates that united position.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hague]

We have no plans to lift the arms embargo on China. I have made that clear in EU discussions, which I think is what my hon. Friend was asking for. We have also made it clear where we stand on Liu Xiaobo. A few minutes ago the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann) accused the Government of supine weakness, but he was guilty of rather spectacular ignorance because it was one of the main issues that we flagged up on international human rights day, and which I placed on the Foreign Office website and spoke about in my message on international human rights day, so we have been clear where we stand on the awarding of the Nobel prize, and of course our ambassador attended that ceremony.

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

May I join the Foreign Secretary in his tribute to Richard Holbrooke? The right hon. Gentleman will agree that this is a moment when we should not just pay tribute to Ambassador Holbrooke’s previous work, but recognise that his death is a great loss to the peace process in Afghanistan and to the work that is ongoing.

The Foreign Secretary referred to the EU Council, which will meet on Thursday to discuss a treaty change that has not been debated in this House, where for the third time since the election we have not had a pre-Council debate. Why are the Government agreeing to treaty changes without debating them first in the House, and will they propose any further treaty changes of their own?

[Mr Hague]

The right hon. Lady is quite right about Ambassador Holbrooke. I spoke about his previous outstanding record, and it is quite true as well that we will feel his loss in current events and in the work that is ongoing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. We clearly stand united in the House in reflecting on that.

On the European Council and the subject of debates, there is some force in the points that hon. Members make about such matters being debated in the House. The days that were previously set aside for European Council debates are among those that have gone into the pot, as it were, to be allocated by the Backbench Business Committee. The right hon. Lady might say that the Government should allocate more time, but the Government gave away that time, and let us be fair, the Opposition also have time on the Floor of the House, with their Opposition days. That is the current position, however, and the Backbench Business Committee should very much take those points into account.

In accordance with the European Union (Amendment) Act 2008, no Government can agree to a treaty change without bringing it to the House for a vote and, indeed, to the other House, so, the Government’s formal agreement to a treaty change will in any case require a debate and vote in this House. We will treat any new treaty change in line with the requirements of the European Union Bill, which is now before the House, meaning that a change will also require an Act of Parliament. So, any such change that might be agreed this week will require exhaustive examination in this House.

European Union Bill

Yvette Cooper Excerpts

Tuesday 7th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)]

I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “That” to the end of the Question and add:

“this House declines to give a second reading to the European Union Bill on the grounds that, while the principle of referendums on significant constitutional and monetary changes is appropriate, the Bill is a flawed measure which would confuse the important issues at stake and make vital constitutional issues justiciable by the courts rather than resolved under the sovereignty of Parliament.”

The Foreign Secretary has been on a long and tortuous journey to get here today. The man who voted for the Maastricht treaty without a referendum and the former party leader who put Euroscepticism at the heart of his unsuccessful election campaign now finds himself in government with what he has described as

“the most fanatically federalist party in Britain.”

The Foreign Secretary’s diary engagement from last night rather sums things up for him, and I am sorry that he chose not to share it with the House. Last night, he went back to Smith square, to the old Conservative central office. From the windows where once Margaret Thatcher waved on election night now waves a blue flag with yellow stars. Where once sat Tory party researchers working on the Bruges speech, there are now French, German and Italian officials. He was invited for the opening and renaming of central office as Europe House. It cannot be easy for him. He is caught between the realities and the responsibilities of government and the rhetoric of Eurosceptic opposition. He is caught, as they say, between a rock and the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash).

[Mr Hague]

The record should also show that the room where I spoke last night was named the Churchill room by common agreement, and that I took the opportunity to remind all who were there of the need for EU institutions to bring down their budgetary aspirations just as the Government have had to do in this country.

[Yvette Cooper]

If only the Foreign Secretary’s willingness to open EU buildings extended to opening a proper debate on European issues in the House. Clause 10 purports to increase Parliament’s role before ministerial decisions are made, yet the truth is that the Government do the opposite. We have had no discussion of the European economy prior to the discussion between European Finance Ministers today, no discussion of practical measures to cut the European budget, such as reform of the common agricultural policy, and no discussion of working with Europe on human trafficking or the directive that the Government continue to opt out of.

This very morning, European Finance Ministers met to discuss the Irish support package and the European economy. In 10 days’ time, decisions will be made on the crisis resolution measures that will affect the entire European economy—not just the eurozone—for many years to come. National leaders will discuss a treaty change to introduce that package, yet when is the debate in the British Parliament? We have no idea what British Government Ministers are proposing or asking for.

We should hold pre-Council debates in this Chamber. The economic and political pressures that Europe faces are serious. European growth is slowing, unemployment has increased and markets are putting pressure on several eurozone countries, all of which matters immensely to Britain, yet we have had no pre-Council debates. At the end of this year, there will have been four European Councils, but no debate.

[Mr Redwood]

The right hon. Lady is raising crucial issues. Does her party support the idea of Britain being part of more EU economic governance powers to help euroland, and does she think we ought to offer more financial assistance to other euroland countries in crisis?

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

I think that the Government were right to provide support for Ireland, because the prospects for growth in Ireland will have a huge impact on our economy. That is also why it is important that the House debates the precise measures proposed as part of a permanent crisis resolution mechanism. The House does not know what those proposals are or what the Government are arguing for.

[Mr Ellwood]

Will the right hon. Lady provide some clarification, because her amendment does not make it clear where the Labour party stands on this issue? It supports referendums in principle, but it does not say when they would be held. When would a referendum be used on Europe? Will she also clarify whether it is still Labour’s long-term ambition to introduce the euro and an EU defence force?

[Yvette Cooper]

As the hon. Gentleman will know, we have set out our belief that there should be referendums in cases of major constitutional change or currency issues, and I hope that he supported our decision not to let Britain enter the euro for the very good economic reasons that have proved to be right in practice.

The economic issues are very serious. Markets are still putting pressure on several eurozone countries. This matters immensely for Britain, because the Government are relying on an increase in British exports of £100 billion over the next few years to keep our economy growing, and we will not get that if our largest export market has gone into reverse. The EU does not have a serious strategy for growth and jobs, just as the British Government do not. The eurozone does not yet have a strong enough response to the pressure from financial markets, and a strategy of nothing but co-ordinated fiscal austerity in every country in Europe will not deliver growth, will not ultimately satisfy the financial markets and will be bad news for Britain. That is what we should be discussing now; that is what Ministers should be debating in Europe; that is what we should be discussing as part of a pre-European Council debate in the House. It makes a complete mockery of the Bill not to have those discussions in the House, and exposes the sham of the Secretary of State’s approach to Europe.

[Charlie Elphicke]

The right hon. Lady has set out the many problems of euroland, so why has she committed her party to supporting further bail-outs there?

[Yvette Cooper]

The hon. Gentleman needs to recognise that Britain will not grow without sufficient growth in our exports, especially given the sheer scale of the cuts that his Government are introducing. Without a sufficient increase in domestic demand, we are reliant on increasing our exports. Where does he want those exports to go, if he also wants us to turn our backs on Europe and allow the Irish economy to face serious problems? That would put a drag on our own economy and prospects as well.

[Ms Gisela Stuart]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the use of article 352 of the treaty on the functioning of the European Union will not require an Act of Parliament, and that the current bail-out of Ireland, which is a pretty significant activity to which we are contributing as part of our EU obligations, is being done under that article?

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. It raises some of the unresolved questions coming out of the Bill and the interaction between the Bill and some of the crisis resolution mechanisms and proposed treaty changes. The Government simply have not answered those questions.

[Mr MacShane]

I am astonished that the Foreign Secretary of all people has thrown away this pre-European Council debate. I made my maiden speech in such a debate before people such as Ted Heath and Peter Shore. They are very important debates for our House of Commons, but the Government have thrown them in the dustbin because they cannot face the discussions needed. My right hon. Friend is right to keep emphasising this point, so will she commit us, when we form the next Government, to allowing a debate in Government time on Europe?

[Yvette Cooper]

My right hon. Friend is right: those debates are important. We could have had a pre-European Council discussion today, at the same time as European Finance Ministers are meeting and well in advance of national leaders meeting to discuss exactly these issues. Instead of talking about vital issues for the European economy, what are we doing? According to the Foreign Secretary, we are talking about referendums that he says we will not need and sovereignty that he says we already have—that is, referendums for powers that he says he will not even transfer, and sovereignty that he says will not change at all as a result of this Bill. Unnerving as I find it to be in agreement with the hon. Member for Clacton (Mr Carswell), I am afraid to say that he is right. This Bill is just smoke and mirrors to distract us from the fact that the Government have no strategy for Europe and no way of handling their own Eurosceptics.

Instead of having a serious debate about the future of Europe, the Foreign Secretary is pandering to the Eurosceptics, and it is the worst pandering of all, because it will not even work. All that it is doing is winding them up. This Bill is a complete dog’s dinner and he knows it, yet the Eurosceptics are salivating nevertheless. The Bill tries to constrain parliamentary sovereignty on the one hand and protect parliamentary sovereignty on the other, using a referendum lock that does one thing and a sovereignty clause that does the opposite—a referendum lock that tries to bind future Parliaments and a sovereignty clause that makes it clear that the Government can do no such thing. It is all in the same Bill, which faces both ways at the same time.

The Government’s press release on the sovereignty clause says:

“The common law is already clear on this. Parliament is sovereign. EU law has effect in the UK because—and solely because—Parliament wills that it should. Parliament chose to pass the European Communities Act 1972. That was the act of a sovereign Parliament.”

There is not much room for misunderstanding there. The statement then proclaims that

“to put the matter beyond speculation,”

the Government will introduce the sovereignty clause, but whose speculation are we talking about? It is not the speculation of the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash), because his European Scrutiny Committee has said:

“The evidence we received suggests that the legislative supremacy of Parliament is not currently under threat from EU law.”

The Committee continued:

“Clause 18 is not a sovereignty clause in the manner claimed by the Government, and the whole premise on which it has been included in the Bill is, in our view, exaggerated.”

The only source of speculation that I could find was one speech by a barrister on behalf of a client in 2002 and a speech by the Prime Minister in 2009. The truth is that the Foreign Secretary has set up a straw man in order to shoot it down, because he will not give his party what it really wants, which is a referendum on withdrawing from the EU altogether.

[Mr Jenkin]

The right hon. Lady really does not know what she is talking about. Let me refer her to the Law Lords’ judgment in the case of Jackson v. Attorney-General, in which Lord Steyn said:

“The judges created this principle”—

that is, the principle of parliamentary sovereignty.

“If that is so, it is not unthinkable that circumstances could arise where the courts may have to qualify a principle established on a different hypothesis of constitutionalism.”

Lord Hope said:

“Parliamentary sovereignty is no longer, if it ever was, absolute…Step by step, gradually but surely, the English principle of the absolute legislative sovereignty of Parliament which Dicey derived from Coke and Blackstone is being qualified.”

There are therefore two Law Lords speculating about the future of parliamentary sovereignty. The right hon. Lady had better do some homework.

[Yvette Cooper]

I am afraid that the hon. Gentleman is not picking a fight with me; he is picking a fight with his Government, whom I quoted, and the European Scrutiny Committee, which I quoted. His disagreement is with them, but I hope that he agrees that clause 18 does nothing at all to change sovereignty. In fact, the hon. Member for Crawley (Henry Smith), who asked about a written constitution, got further than anybody else in raising the key question about sovereignty that the hon. Gentleman’s Government are pretending to solve while, in fact, doing nothing of the sort.

[Mr Cash]

I simply make the point that our Committee report is utterly clear on that subject. What the right hon. Lady quoted is correct. However, her Government were as responsible as any for giving more and more judicial authority—ultimate authority—to the courts. Their main policy over many years could be characterised as handing over more and more powers to the judges at the expense of this House.

[Yvette Cooper]

I know that the hon. Gentleman has immense expertise on the details of the legal changes, but he and I have a long history of disagreeing over what is important in a particular case, and I suspect that we will continue to do so.

[Chris Bryant]

Is not one of the problems with the Bill the fact that it makes the decision on whether to hold a referendum justiciable, and therefore a matter to be decided by the courts, when it is surely a political decision for which elected Members of Parliament ought to take the rap at the ballot box if they get it wrong?

--- Later in debate ---

[Yvette Cooper]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. The Bill will create a lawyers’ paradise because it is so confused and complex. Important issues will have to be decided by the courts as they try to interpret what the Government and Parliament meant, which could lead to decisions that override Parliament and delays to decisions that Parliament might want to make while those legal wrangles are taking place.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Speaking as a former lawyer, I find the Bill plain and obvious. If a future Government or bunch of politicians get together to cheat people out of a referendum, a little guy could come along and put a stop to that through the court system. That has to be right, in order to keep politicians to their promises.

[Yvette Cooper]

That little guy would have some serious questions about which cases could be taken to court, how long they would take to be dealt with, and what judgment the court would make.

The pledges on referendums are very confused. We agree that Europe should not be pursuing new treaties, major treaty changes or major transfers of power or competence, and we have long said that it is time for Europe to stop its institutional navel-gazing, but navel-gazing is exactly what the Bill proposes. It tries to pin down in legislation the detail of a whole series of changes that would, or would not, trigger a referendum, but it creates complete confusion as a result. It does not define the powers or competences that it wants to protect, and it does not explain what constitutes a significant change and what does not. It allows Ministers to make decisions in certain areas, but admits that that will be subject to judicial review.

As far as I could understand him, the Foreign Secretary said today that the extension of any competence—even a supporting one, and even in a very small or insignificant way—will require a referendum. However, new powers to impose requirements, obligations or sanctions on the UK, even if they would have far more impact on Britain than a small change to the competences, would not require a referendum if Ministers determined that the proposed changes failed their own significance test.

I am also completely baffled by the debate about the advocates-general, because schedule 1 clearly states that the matter would attract a referendum, but the Foreign Secretary said that it would not pass the significance test. As far as I could work out, as I fitted together what he was saying, we would not have a referendum on how many advocates-general there were to be, but we would have to have one on whom we were going to appoint.

This is a dog’s dinner of a Bill. It is completely confused. Frankly, it makes the Maastricht treaty look like light reading. The Minister for Europe has said that he does not believe a referendum should be triggered for a treaty change on the allocation of carbon credits. He says that that is not significant, and he has a point. That matter should not merit a referendum, but how can he be sure that the courts will take the same view when interpreting this legislation? What about the treaty change that is due to be proposed at the European Council next week? That change would make it possible for Europe to create permanent bail-out mechanisms to deal with future financial crises in the eurozone. We have said that we have some concerns about the overall policy approach that Europe is taking. Nevertheless, the Government have said that they support these changes, and we recognise the need to look at a treaty change in order to ensure that a permanent long-term response is in place. The Foreign Secretary seems to be hoping that this treaty change will not be covered by the Bill, but how can he be sure that the courts will take the same view? He is asking for trouble because the Bill is so contrived and complex. Lawyers will have a field day. He is contriving his Bill to avoid a treaty change that he has not yet negotiated, and contriving his treaty negotiations to avoid clashing with a Bill that he has not yet tested in Parliament or in the courts.

Furthermore, despite all the Foreign Secretary’s contortions, he will not keep his Eurosceptic party happy anyway, as we have heard in interventions today. His Government have signed up to the EU investigation order. They were right to do so, and we welcomed the move, but his Back Benchers wanted a referendum on the matter. His Government supported the Van Rompuy taskforce on economic information, but many of his Back Benchers wanted a referendum on it. They want referendums on crime, on justice co-operation on the European arrest warrant, and on pulling out altogether. He cannot keep his Eurosceptics happy, so he is desperately trying to distract them with this Bill. He promised them red meat, but he is now offering them an omelette instead.

This is a Government of chaos and confusion, with the Eurosceptics on one side and, on the other, the president of the European Movement and the Energy Secretary, who has said about Europe that the

“Tories have jumped into bed with the wackos and the weirdos”.

On this evidence, one could say the same of the Liberal Democrats. The Government can have unity without clarity, or clarity without unity, but they are clearly incapable of both. At a time when they should be working hard in Europe on the issues that matter—jobs, growth, trade, cross-border crime—they are collapsing back into navel-gazing and confusion and turning their backs on the opportunities and benefits that working in partnership can bring. This Bill is a mess, and they should go back to the drawing board and start again.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—