Carer's Leave Bill

Wendy Chamberlain Excerpts

Committee stage
Wednesday 9th November 2022 Public Bill Committees

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Clause 2 stand part.

Clause 3 stand part.

That the schedule be the Schedule to the Bill.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Paisley. I thank everyone who is here today—those here voluntarily and those I spoke to very nicely. I welcome the Minister to his place. He is the fourth Minister I have worked with on this Bill, and I am grateful for his support and for that of his predecessors, including the previous Minister, the hon. Member for Watford (Dean Russell). I also thank the officials in the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy for their excellent work and support over recent months. It is lovely to see them here today.

It is a privilege to have the opportunity to carry this Bill through scrutiny in Committee and, I hope, on to its final stages in the Commons. It is wonderful to see so much good work and cross-party co-operation to ensure that this important piece of legislation progresses. I am delighted we are here today to take a step closer to introducing a much-needed new leave entitlement for unpaid carers. We all know the many challenges facing unpaid carers, of which juggling work is just one.

The Carers UK published its “State of Caring 2022” report yesterday, and I will take this opportunity—I take every opportunity—to thank it again for its support. I see one of its representatives in the Gallery. As the most up-to-date evidence that we have about unpaid carers, I will refer to it a few times this morning. I am sure other members of the Committee who have a particular interest will have also seen it, and I encourage those who have not to do so as we all have unpaid carers in our constituencies. It is an impressive piece of work, but it is hard reading because it lays out all the ways in which unpaid carers are still, arguably, being failed.

According to the report, we can currently estimate that one in five adults in the United Kingdom are providing care. That is a huge number. It is hard to estimate how many of those are also in employment—a conservative estimate is 2.3 million. We will need to wait for the publication of the England and Wales census later this year—Scotland’s is next year—to get more accurate estimates, but we know that the numbers are high and ever increasing.

Tempting as it might be, I will not use this morning to provide a summary of the report and all its many recommendations. The Minister knows that I am keen on other recommendations being implemented, especially those that relate to carer’s allowance, but I know we all have places to be, so I will return to the matter in front of us: the Carer’s Leave Bill.

The Bill would put on the statute book for the first time employment rights specifically designed to help unpaid carers with one week of unpaid leave per year for those in full-time employment. That is desperately needed, with 75% of respondents in the Carers UK research worrying about juggling work and care. A significant number of others have either already gone part time or given up work entirely. That was certainly my experience in North East Fife. When I tried to find constituents who would directly benefit from the Bill, a number of people got in touch with me to say that they had given up employment as a result of their caring responsibilities.

We know that employment is a vital lifeline for many people. It is not just about income, although that is clearly a key issue. The majority of carers state that they are also worried about managing their monthly costs, with almost all making spending reductions, including a quarter cutting back on heating and eating. I want to pause here and reiterate that one in four—an estimated 2.5 million unpaid carers who selflessly help others—are having to cut back on their essentials. For most, that means nearing, if not already experiencing, destitution.

In addition to the financial element, this is also about health and wellbeing. On average, carers rate their life satisfaction and happiness distinctly lower than the general population: 4.7 compared with 7.4 and 4.8 compared with 7.4 on a scale of one to 10. Anxiety, stress, loneliness and burnout are common factors. The Bill alone will of course not resolve those issues, but I would argue that a carer being able to use their annual leave for their own rest, being able to take leave from work without feeling at a disadvantage, enjoying their workplace as a regular respite from care rather than work, and having an employer increasingly more likely to recognise and support them in all their roles can only help. I am sure that others present agree.

[Alex Cunningham (Stockton North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member on getting a Bill to this stage, and welcome the Government’s support for it. I, too, pay tribute to the army of carers out there. I am part of the all-party parliamentary group on carers, and carers tell me that the ideal situation would be to get paid leave for carers in the longer term. The Bill is a good step forward, but will she join me and carers organisations in asking the Government to look seriously at that, and to bring back paid leave for carers?

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. My party’s policy is to have paid leave, but the Bill is an important step, putting statutory rights to request leave on the statute book in for the first time. I hope that it is an initial step in doing much more to support carers in all their guises.

Before looking at the text of the Bill, I will briefly mention that it also benefits employers. As I outlined on Second Reading, I have had the pleasure of meeting several businesses that already have carer-friendly employment practices. The evidence that they shared made it clear that having such practices not only is the right thing to do but produces financial benefits through staff motivation and lower turnover. It is a win-win.

[Nickie Aiken (Cities of London and Westminster) (Con)]

I welcome this private Member’s Bill and the Government’s support for it. Does the hon. Member agree that this is a timely Bill, particularly with more women going into the workplace? Women of my generation are very much the sandwich generation: we have elderly parents and children. Also, with medical advancements, more children are surviving disabilities that they might have died from earlier. That means that there is an increased pressure on families to provide care for children as they grow older.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I absolutely agree. There are so many different iterations of carers and who they are providing care to. I have certainly seen that myself. It is really important that the Government support the Bill, because that provides better recognition. We know that one of the UK’s productivity challenges is the number of people who are economically inactive, which has increased post covid. We also know that it tends to be older women, and if the Bill is an opportunity to help them to get them back into the workplace, that can only be positive.

The text of the Bill sets out in detail the legal framework for the entitlement. Large parts of it are very similar to other leave entitlements that are already in operation. That avoids adding complexity, both for employers and employees who will make use of carer’s leave. The main aspects of the entitlement are as follows: the Bill requires the Secretary of State to make regulations to entitle an employee to be absent from work in order to provide or arrange care for a dependant with a long-term care need. There will be no qualifying period, meaning that eligible employees will be able to make a request to take carer’s leave from the first day of their employment. A broad approach has been taken to defining the key terms of eligibility, a dependant and a long-term care need in order to ensure that eligibility is as open as possible, and can encompass the many different circumstances in which a dependant might need care.

I will pause on that element to highlight its importance, because a significant issue is simply getting carers to recognise themselves as such and, therefore, as entitled to support. As I said on Second Reading, my husband is a carer to his mother but would not recognise himself as a carer. Over half of carers take more than a year, and 36% take three years, to recognise themselves as such. As those are the proportions of carers who now see themselves as such, there is potentially an unsurveyed cohort that we do not know about. Making the definition as broad as possible is vital to start conversations, and to show people the different forms that care can take and, vitally, that support is available.

The Bill’s overall objective is to ensure that carer’s leave is available to those caring for someone with a significant and long-term care need, but flexibility and a light-touch administrative burden are fundamental features of the new entitlement. It will allow for a proportionate process to be put in place through regulations to enable employers to plan and manage absences arising from carer’s leave.

[Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con)]

I commend the hon. Lady on her work, and the Government on their support for this important Bill. She will not be surprised to learn that more than one in 10 residents in my constituency are a carer for a loved one or near neighbour. My understanding from my constituents and the business community is that they are supportive of the Bill, and that employers may fear nothing from it. Those with caring responsibilities do not even tend to take the allowance given to them, but the flexibility and recognition is what makes it so incredibly valuable.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

I thank the hon. Member for her intervention. When we engage with employers on such things, they recognise the importance of retaining and motivating their staff. They invest in their training and development and want them to stay with them. I think the Bill will really help employers on that front, and as a result will help their employees as well.

No amendments have been tabled to the Bill, so I will now discuss the clauses and schedule in greater detail. Clause 1 is uncontroversial and is simply the route to provide for the substance of the Bill through the schedule. For the legislation to achieve its policy aims, it may be necessary to amend existing legislation, and clause 2 allows for that to happen. Clause 3 addresses a procedural point, setting out the extent of the Bill, making provision for commencement and providing the short title. I commend the clauses to the Committee.

The substance of the Bill is contained in the schedule. This is the most important part of the Bill. Part 1 of the schedule creates carer’s leave as a concept by inserting proposed new sections into the Employment Rights Act 1996. First, this part of the schedule covers who is entitled to carer’s leave. The key definitions of a dependant and a long-term care need are set out in the Bill. The schedule then goes on to address the length of the entitlement, which shall be a minimum of one week.

A cap on the length of leave that employers will be required to offer is not set out in the Bill but will be included in regulations. As set out in the Government’s response to the consultation on carer’s leave, I understand that it will be one week. Of course, there is no cap on the amount of leave that employers can offer if they wish. I am sure that we all know from speaking to employers and others in our constituencies that there are employers who go far above what is set out in the Bill. Regulations may also provide for how the leave can be taken, which includes providing that the leave is available to be taken non-continuously. Regulations can provide that particular activities are, or are not, to be treated as providing or arranging care, but I understand that the Government’s intention is not to further define those activities.

Part 1 goes on to set out the protections offered to employees while they are on carer’s leave. In particular, it provides that regulations must create an entitlement for employees to return from carer’s leave to a type of work prescribed by those regulations. That sounds technical, but basically it covers remuneration, bonuses, redundancies and when the leave is taken immediately after other types of leave, such as maternity. This part of the schedule also allows for regulations to be made to address notice, evidence and procedural requirements. A framework will be created through regulations that will be clear and simple for employers and employees to follow. Importantly, the Bill makes it particularly clear that the regulations can provide that an employer cannot require an employee to supply evidence in relation to their request for leave. Finally, part 1 of the schedule sets out when an employee may make a complaint to an employment tribunal. I commend it to the Committee.

Part 2 of the schedule contains further amendments to primary legislation affected by carer’s leave. It sets out the consequential amendments that will be required to ensure that the measure is effective and does not have an adverse impact on existing legislation. I do not propose to explain each in turn; I will simply commend part 2 as a whole. I thank Members for their time, interest and presence this morning.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

It is a delight to be a member of this Bill Committee. I congratulate the hon. Member for North East Fife on bringing the Bill, and I am absolutely delighted that the Government are supporting it.

Unusually, we find ourselves in violent agreement on the reasons behind the Bill. Prior to the pandemic, it was calculated that about 4.9 million people across the country were juggling some kind of unpaid care with paid work. As the hon. Lady said, it is almost impossible to quantify that work because so many carers do not identify themselves as such and often go without the support and help they need. We know that such caring work has an almost unquantifiable impact on their lives and causes undue stress. As a result, those people may find that they have to leave the workforce.

Many of us never consider that we might become unpaid carers, but Carers UK has calculated that two thirds of us will end up fulfilling that role at some stage in our lives. I saw that for myself when my mum was an unpaid carer for my nan. At the time, we were running our family business, and as I had just had my first child, my mum was part of that sandwich generation that my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster spoke about. Of course, the responsibility for caring so often falls to women, which is why so many fall out of the workforce. I saw the impact that those caring responsibilities had on my mum, on her professional life and on every aspect of her own health and wellbeing.

Staying in work while providing such care can be incredibly challenging. That is why the Bill is so important. I am honoured to chair the all-party parliamentary group on carers, which is proud to support the Bill. We know that, in prioritising someone else’s health and care needs, carers up and down the country are not prioritising their own, which can have a massive impact. People do it not for reimbursement or money, but almost entirely out of love and responsibility, and we must recognise that.

As our population ages and changes, and as the way we work changes, we need to ensure that we change with them, because the number of people juggling work and care will only ever increase. We already lag behind other countries when it comes to workplace rights for carers. Many advanced and further ageing economies—including Japan, Canada, the US, Germany, Ireland and France—have some form of carer’s leave in place.

Leave entitlement for carers was a Conservative manifesto commitment for the 2019 general election, so it is disappointing that it has not been introduced by a Conservative Government, but I am grateful to the hon. Member for North East Fife for doing so. I am pleased, however, that the Conservative Government recognise that the right for unpaid carers take up to a week of leave could make a real difference between somebody staying or leaving the workforce.

It would be a good thing for employers, too, as my hon. Friend the Member for Eastbourne said. We always talk about the productivity gap, the skills gap and retaining excellent and experienced staff, but people’s caring responsibilities often kick in during the second half of their working lives, when they are at their most experienced and have the most expertise. Businesses face the enormous financial burden not only of losing them and their expertise at that stage, but of the ensuing recruitment costs. I am pleased that the key definitions and parameters that are built into the Bill align with existing provisions for other family leave, making them easier for employers to implement. That is important because we want to minimise the burden on employers and make arrangements easier for employees to understand.

I think this is an excellent piece of legislation. Carers have done so much for our country—they save the NHS and our social care system so much money—so this is the best thing we can do to give something back. That is why I wholeheartedly support the Bill.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Thank you, Minister. I call Wendy Chamberlain.

[Wendy Chamberlain]

Thank you, Mr Paisley, for your excellent chairing of the Committee this morning. I also thank the Minister and Government Members for supporting the Bill. I thank all Members for serving on the Committee. An early morning slot on a Wednesday is not the most popular time—I have helped everyone get their prayer cards in for Prime Ministers’ questions. I am grateful to all members of the Committee for being here.

I just want to touch on some of the comments made in interventions and speeches. I agree with the hon. Member for Stockton North that the Bill needs to be a first step and we should look at paid care. When we think about the other leave entitlements that are paid, this needs to be a first step. The hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster mentioned that we increasingly have sandwich generations, so we need to think about how we better support them. I agree with the hon. Member for Eastbourne: it is important to know that there is support in our constituencies. It is great that we are in violent agreement here, but also important that we know we reflect the wishes of our constituents.

I know how much the hon. Member for Gosport, the chair of the APPG on carers, cares about the subject, and I know about the work she has done. She commented on the love and responsibility of carers, which struck me as so many carers do it because it is a loved one that they are looking after. That responsibility and the management of the caring admin can be a real burden for people.

The hon. Member for Rotherham mentioned carers who had had no breaks in two years. It is very telling that so many carers take annual leave, or even sick leave, for caring responsibilities, and they do not self-care as a result. We need to think about how we better support them.

My friend the hon. Member for Hastings and Rye spoke of her personal experiences of palliative care, which we should all think about. We want to provide care for our loved ones, particularly at end of life, and I hope the Government will look favourably on her comments.

I say to the hon. Member for Sheffield Central that, having met Fife Young Carers, I am very conscious of the burden that is placed on young carers, and of how that caring burden can prevent them from realising their own future potential in the workplace and so on. How do we help with that?

The Bill is a vital piece of legislation that will support unpaid carers. From the conversations today and on Second Reading, it is clear that there is much more to be done, but I believe that this is an important first step towards easing some of the burden, and I look forward to continuing to work with everybody present.

I am grateful to Members for their congratulations. I am very conscious of the fact that getting a private Member’s Bill to this stage requires working with the Government to find areas of consensus and look at the scope of the Bill, but I got a white ball with my number on it pulled out of a glass jar. That is how we started this private Member’s Bill journey, so luck always comes into it to some extent.

[The Chair]

I thank the hon. Member for those kind comments about this historic Bill Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause 1 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule agreed to.

Bill to be reported, without amendment.