Oral Answers to Questions
Wayne David Excerpts(1 month, 1 week ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
The situation in Gaza is truly appalling, but the situation in the west bank is also a cause for huge concern. Since the horrific 7 October attacks, over 400 Palestinians have been killed and thousands have been detained. Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Bolton South East (Yasmin Qureshi), last week Israel advanced plans for 3,400 new homes in the Occupied Palestinian Territories. As a two-state solution is the only path to a lasting peace, does the Minister agree that a firm position on these issues must be taken now by the United Kingdom and the international community?
Mr Mitchell
I hope that I have set out my broad agreement with what the hon. Gentleman says. Britain wants to see steps taken against illegal settlements and settlers who have committed crimes—we want to see them arrested, tried and punished for those crimes. We want to see the Palestinian Authority reinvigorated, with new leadership and a strong approach to taking up the roles that it will need to fulfil when the sky clears and there is a moment for the political track to begin.
Gaza: Humanitarian Aid and Children
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Ms Vaz. I begin by commending my hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Apsana Begum) for introducing the debate, and the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the time for it. I also note the e-petition that was submitted, and the significant time allocated to it. Although the House is about to rise for February recess, I am glad that we are having this debate, and I am very pleased that Members have made the effort to come along to express their views and opinions this afternoon.
I believe it is important that we do not become desensitised to the appalling suffering taking place in Gaza. There can be no doubt at all about the sincerity of Members who have spoken this afternoon. We know that in these terrible circumstances, more than 27,000 Palestinians have lost their lives as a result of the actions of the IDF. As a number of Members have correctly pointed out, women and children have been the primary casualties in this conflict. My hon. Friend the Member for Poplar and Limehouse mentioned that 11,500 children have lost their lives, and that 24,000 children have lost one or both parents. As we have heard a couple of Members mention, we have the terrible, unbelievable horror of operations, such as the amputation of limbs, being conducted on children without anaesthetic.
It is important to recognise that the people who have been killed and severely injured are primarily not terrorists or their supporters. The people of Gaza, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter) correctly said, are highly educated, resilient and wish to live in peace. The shadow Minister for International Development, my hon. Friend the Member for Wigan (Lisa Nandy), and other members of the shadow Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office team have met with British Palestinian families very recently. Those families raised a number of important and distressing issues with us, including the need for children with urgent medical needs to be temporarily evacuated from Gaza for surgery. We are pursuing these issues with the Government. If the Minister could give any indication today of what the Government are doing or planning to do on this, it would be welcome.
We are all acutely aware that the only way to resolve this appalling humanitarian crisis is through a sustainable ceasefire. This will allow the return of all hostages and an immediate concerted international effort to take into Gaza the greatest possible amount of humanitarian aid: food, water, fuel and medical supplies. There is a frustratingly limited amount that we, as an Opposition, can do or say to help, but I assure Members that all members of our Front-Bench team are discussing the situation with our counterparts in Palestine, Israel, Jordan, Egypt, Oman, Saudi Arabia, Qatar, the United Nations and the United States. Only yesterday, I met the Foreign Minister of Qatar in person; I made it clear to him that the Labour party stands firmly behind those who want to see a ceasefire, an immediate end to the suffering and the achievement of a lasting peace.
As we all know, serious allegations have been made against 12 UNRWA employees. The Government must ensure that they have robust processes in place regarding the use of UK aid. However, it would be wrong if anything were to stand in the way of crucial aid reaching Gaza in the midst of this terrible crisis. My hon. Friend the Member for Wigan, the shadow International Development Minister, has discussed the issue with her counterpart, the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), who has confirmed that the next allocation to UNRWA from the United Kingdom is due in the next financial year. There will be a UN review, led by a French former Foreign Minister, and an interim report will be published at the end of March. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton South (Rachel Hopkins) alluded to this; like her, I would be appreciative if the Minister could confirm that there will be no interruption to the flow of UK funding to UNRWA in the next financial year.
There are, of course, other aid agencies working in Gaza. I pay tribute to them and in particular to Medical Aid for Palestinians, an organisation with which I have had a fair bit of contact. They are all doing a tremendous job in the most difficult circumstances; indeed, many of the aid workers have lost their lives. However, UNRWA’s role is absolutely central to the humanitarian effort in Gaza and across the entire region. The right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) made the point that there are 13,000 people working for and in Gaza, and a number of those workers have lost their lives too. Their work is essential, especially when we remember the appalling fact that more people are dying from hunger and thirst in Gaza than from bombs and bullets. Let me be clear: if UNRWA’s vital work is disrupted, the consequences for the people of Gaza will be further death and suffering. Again, I ask the Minister to make the Government’s position absolutely clear.
The debate has been important, and we have heard a number of heartfelt and moving contributions from Members. I hope that before too long there will be an enduring ceasefire, agreed by all parties, and that the necessary aid will be brought into Gaza and distributed in safety and without conditions to all parts of Gaza. I thank all hon. Members for their contributions, and I look forward to the Minister’s reply.
Kurdistan Region of Iraq
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 1 week ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under you today, Ms Bardell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke (Jack Lopresti) on securing this debate. He has been to Kurdistan on a number of occasions and is chair of the all-party parliamentary group on the Kurdistan region in Iraq. I am one of the vice-chairs of the APPG, and I know that its members have a great deal of knowledge about the region and have visited Kurdistan several times. I hope to go there before too long. As I would expect, the hon. Member gave a truly comprehensive overview of the region, referring to its recent history and the good things that have occurred in Kurdistan, as well as outlining what needs to be addressed in the future.
We have heard from my right hon. Friend the Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) about the situation for teachers and journalists. I am certain that the Minister will have taken note of his comments and will respond to them.
We have also heard from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who spoke eloquently about the importance of religious toleration and freedom, and spoke in particular about the situation facing Christians and Yazidis, which was also referred to by the SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Argyll and Bute (Brendan O’Hara).
Although I have not been to Kurdistan, as the Member for a south Wales constituency, I have felt on occasions that I know Kurdistan quite well. I say that not because of its spectacular scenery, including its wonderful mountains, but because I was a good friend of the late Anne Clwyd, the former Member for Cynon Valley, who passed away last year. I knew Anne very well and I know she had a great affection for Kurdistan, and was well respected in the region. Indeed, her memorial service in Aberdare last autumn, which I attended, was also attended by Karwan Jamal Tahir and a senior Minister from the Iraqi Government. It was really important to have such a high representative of Kurdistan as well as a member of the Iraqi Government present at Anne’s memorial service.
The Kurdistan region in Iraq is known as the beloved north, because of its spectacular landscapes and relatively temperate climate. The region has tremendous potential, and the hon. Member for Filton and Bradley Stoke correctly highlighted the importance of developing the bilateral relationship between our two countries. Indeed, that was a common theme throughout all the contributions this morning.
There are around 200 British companies currently operating in the Kurdistan region, and I know that the British Government are keen to promote UK investment as best they can. As the hon. Member said in introducing the debate, educational links are also vitally important. The University of London is in the process of establishing a campus in Irbil, the capital of Kurdistan, which will join three other universities that already teach in English.
However, that is not to suggest that Kurdistan does not face significant challenges, because it does. The relationship with Baghdad could be much better. Oil exports from Iraqi Kurdistan to Turkey have been paused since late March 2023, and arbitration on this issue has been taking place. This is a vital issue, as oil accounts for 80% of the region’s income, and it is part of an ongoing dispute about finance. The constitutional position linked to it needs to be clarified as a matter of urgency.
A crucial part of the Irbil-Baghdad argument concerns disputed territories such as Kirkuk. The Kurdish governor of Kirkuk called on Kurdish forces to urgently reinforce their military presence, to save Kirkuk from ISIS in 2014, and then control its oil fields. After the disputed 2017 independence referendum in Kurdistan, those disputed regions and oil fields were retaken by Iraqi Government forces. I understand that there were violent protests in Kirkuk in the autumn of only last year, but the dispute is unresolved.
Another large and important issue is corruption. Corruption in the regional government’s administration and elsewhere in the county is a huge problem, although that must be kept in perspective, because it is suggested that corruption in other parts of Iraq is far more deep-seated. Nevertheless, corruption needs to be addressed and rooted out in a determined way.
As we have heard this morning, security is also an issue. Since the 1980s, Turkey has been engaged in military action against the PKK, formerly the Kurdistan Workers’ Party, a proscribed terrorist organisation in the UK. In October last year, Turkey launched a number of attacks, which have continued into this year. Although I appreciate that the Government recognise Turkey’s legitimate security interests in Iraq, I am concerned about regional instability. I ask to Minister to say a few words about the Government’s position on that.
There is also the issue of recent Iranian missile attacks. Only last month, Iran launched a missile attack targeting what it called an “Israeli spy base”. At least four civilians were killed and six injured in the strikes, according to the Kurdistan Government. Among the dead were a multimillionaire Kurdish businessman, members of his family and a senior Kurdish intelligence officer. I would appreciate it if the Minister provided us with an update on that attack and on relations with Iran.
In conclusion, I think we all agree that links between the UK and Kurdistan are strong and positive. We have a large Kurdish diaspora in the United Kingdom that makes a huge and positive contribution to our economy and culture. We also have an important relationship with the autonomous region of Kurdistan, as we have heard this morning. The important thing now is to develop and take forward that relationship, which will certainly be to our mutual benefit. I look forward to hearing from the Minister how the Government intend to develop that relationship further, in line with their stated policy of supporting a strong Kurdistan region in a strong and unified Iraq.
Iran: Freedom and Democracy
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 2 weeks ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
I commend the hon. Member for Harrow East (Bob Blackman) for introducing this debate and the Backbench Business Committee for allowing the time for it.
This debate is important and timely. Although we have had only a few contributions, they have been significant and important. The hon. Member mentioned the Ashraf 3 camp in Albania, and although it is not entirely clear what has happened there it is important to note his point that the Inter-Parliamentary Union, for which I am on the executive of the British group, will be sending a delegation to Albania. I will make a point of making sure, as best I can, that the delegation raises the matter in its visit.
At the start of my contribution, I make the point that the authoritarian and theocratic regime in Iran presents and presides over a reprehensible repressive state. As has been said, there is little real democracy in today’s Iran. At the beginning of March, there will be elections to the Iranian Parliament and the Assembly of Experts. As has been the case in the past, the Council of Guardians will prevent candidates standing whom the Supreme Leader does not approve. We expect that those who are blocked will be moderate and reforming candidates.
The elections will rightly attract a great deal of attention, not least because they are the first to be held since the widespread protests in Iran following the death of 22-year-old Mahsa Amini. As I am sure many Members are aware, her death in September 2022 occurred in police custody after she had been arrested for not complying with strict Islamic dress code. Following her death, there were widespread protests across Iran for a number of months. They were cruelly repressed by the regime, but it is important to remember and to pay tribute to the many thousands of women and girls who were brave enough to take part. Indeed, I was proud to speak in an event in this House organised by the Azadi Network. Speakers were from all parties in this House, and they demonstrated a real solidarity, which all parties have clearly expressed, and I stress that that is so important. It was the House of Commons saying to the Iranian people, “We are with you.”
The protests were subject to appalling brutality in Iran, meted out by the Iranian authorities. It is estimated that at least 20,000 people were detained, including many children. It is estimated, too, that more than 500 people were killed, and many more were seriously injured. The violence did not stop with the end of the demonstrations: there have been many allegations of torture and appalling treatment of detainees, including reports of sexual and gender-based violence against women, men and children.
As has been said, Amnesty International has reported that Iranian security forces are guilty of using the most terrible sexual violence against people who are merely peaceful protesters. It is important to note the comments made by the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), who spoke eloquently about the lack of human rights and pointed out the lack of religious freedom in today’s Iran.
If the Iranian regime is repressive at home, it is guilty of aggression abroad. In fact, it is among the world’s foremost state sponsors of terrorism. Iran, through its so-called proxies, is guilty of helping to initiate violence across much of the middle east. Iran has supplied huge support to Hamas in Gaza. It has supplied and supported Hezbollah in Lebanon and is still doing so. In Iraq—including in Kurdistan—and in Syria, Iranian sponsored militants have attacked US forces. On Sunday, an Iran-backed group was responsible for a drone attack on a US military base in Jordan that resulted in the death of three American soldiers and the injury of many other people.
As we all know, the Houthis, who again are closely linked to the Iranian regime, have been conducting missile and drone attacks on international shipping in the Red sea. Of course, the US and the UK have been undertaking surgical strikes against Houthi targets in Yemen, and Labour is on record as supporting that proportionate action. Further afield, the Iranian regime has developed close links with Russia and has supplied a large number of drones that are being used in Ukraine, so there can be absolutely no doubt about the Iranian regime’s malign influence across the middle east and the world.
On Tuesday, I raised Iran’s destructive activities across the globe with the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the right hon. Member for Sutton Coldfield (Mr Mitchell), at FCDO questions. He indicated that the Foreign Secretary was in the region that day and holding meetings on the very issue. He also said that the Government were
“working extensively with Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, Israel, Saudi Arabia and America.”—[Official Report, 30 January 2024; Vol. 744, c. 710.]
I would be appreciative if the Minister indicated in his reply how those meetings went and how the ongoing discussions will proceed on this important issue.
We are aware that Iran is active in this country. As a number of hon. Members, including the hon. Member for Harrow East, said, the head of MI5 has previously referred to potential threats by Iran to kidnap or kill British or UK-based people. In 2015, the police discovered an Iranian-linked bomb factory in London. Since the beginning of 2022, Iranians have been responsible for at least 15 potential threats against British or UK-based individuals. That was recognised by a number of hon. Members in the Chamber.
Earlier this week, The Times reported that a number of members of the Iranian diaspora who have spoken out against the Iranian regime have been warned by counter-terrorism police that they face an increased threat. It is also important to note that the Iranian authorities have been systematically targeting BBC Persian staff, intimidating their families in Iran as well as intimidating staff in this country. Since the protests in Iran in 2022, the BBC security team has reported that the risks to BBC Persian staff have “increased”. Because of those very real threats, I believe that the sanctions introduced, and the further ones announced, should be welcomed. I hope, however, that the Government will closely examine other ways in which pressure can be brought to bear on the appalling Iranian regime.
One additional measure ought to be the total proscription of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. I understand that there is ongoing debate in Government about this, but if they do not bring forward appropriate measures that would lead to a total ban of the IRGC in this country, Labour will do so if it forms a Government. If the Government do that now, Labour will support it. I hope that the Government will respond in a truly positive way.
This has been an important debate with excellent contributions. This issue should unite all of us who believe strongly in democracy, freedom and human rights in this country and throughout the world.
Oral Answers to Questions
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
Today the middle east is in danger of seeing a major escalation of conflict, and whether it is in Gaza, the Red sea, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria or Jordan, we are seeing aggression. If there is a common denominator in those conflicts, it is the malign influence of Iran, usually through its proxies. What are the Government doing to disrupt and stop the disruptive activities of Iran?
Mr Mitchell
My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary had a meeting recently with the Iranian Foreign Minister to set out Britain’s view of and requirements from the relationship with Iran, and I think that was a most useful contact to have. The Foreign Secretary is in the region today, trying to ensure that the very points behind this question are accepted and honoured. We are working extensively with Jordan, Egypt, Qatar, Israel, Saudi Arabia and America. Those discussions are ongoing, and will address the point that the hon. Gentleman has raised.
Situation in the Red Sea
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 3 weeks ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
We have had an excellent debate. It is true that it has been wide-ranging on occasions, but it has also been thoughtful, frank and, at times, passionate. I certainly hope that the Defence Secretary will take the trouble to read Hansard tomorrow to at least be aware of the excellent contributions that have been made.
It has been interesting to listen to the contributions about whether Parliament should have a say on military action beforehand or retrospectively, and I am sure that we will return to that debate in earnest. I give a commitment to read what I am sure is an excellent book by the hon. Member for North Wiltshire (James Gray).
Wayne David
I will make no comment about that.
This debate is seriously important because, as I think we all agree, there has to be Government accountability for the action that they take. I am therefore genuinely pleased that the debate has taken place, and hope that further such debates take place in future.
Richard Drax
On the point about voting, which I think is ridiculous, during the bad period of the second world war when Churchill was very unpopular, if a vote had been taken in the House, I suspect that, on some occasions, he might have lost. What on earth would we have done then?
Wayne David
I am sure that Members have noted the hon. Gentleman’s comment, and am sure that when we have a detailed debate on that issue, his comment will weigh heavily on people’s minds.
This debate is important because accountability is vital. As we have made clear on a number of occasions, the Labour party supports this limited, targeted action. We do so because it is important to protect international commerce and to ensure security for maritime shipping in the Red sea. We uphold international law, and believe it would be quite wrong to ignore the disruption to the flow of goods, foods, medicines and much else, as well as the threat to human life, that is being caused by the Houthis’ actions.
I agree with the comments of the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, the hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Alicia Kearns)—with which many other Members also agreed, including my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Andy Slaughter)—that the Houthis are a truly appalling terrorist organisation, and are most definitely no freedom fighters. It is also worth noting that the Houthis’ actions are harming Yemen itself, the country that has experienced the worst starvation in modern times. As the hon. Member for Meon Valley (Mrs Drummond) mentioned, 90% of Yemen’s food is imported, and those imports are clearly at risk.
Let us not forget, too, that the Houthis’ actions have terrible consequences for other countries along the Red sea. Eritrea relies on fishing, farming and mineral exports, all of which travel by sea. For Sudan, the Red sea is vital for aid, which has come to a virtual end since the Houthis’ attacks began. Further up the Red sea we have Egypt, a country experiencing severe economic difficulties. It stands to lose millions of dollars in revenue from the Suez canal—money that is desperately needed—if the Houthis’ actions are allowed to continue.
Sir Liam Fox
I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving way. For the sake of completeness, would he also like to add that the Houthis have fired missiles into Saudi Arabia and the UAE, both of which are sovereign states?
Wayne David
The right hon. Gentleman makes a very important point, which reinforces the essential point that action is not only justified and lawful, but necessary to prevent that kind of violence and aggression by this rag-tag of terrorists called the Houthis.
It is significant that the actions of the United States and the United Kingdom have logistical support from Australia, Bahrain, Canada and the Netherlands, because the international community must be and act as one. It is worth stating that on Monday evening those four countries put out a joint statement, along with the UK and the US, which said:
“Recognising the broad consensus of the international community, we again acted as part of a coalition of like-minded countries committed to upholding the rules-based order, protecting freedom of navigation and international commerce, and holding the Houthis accountable for their illegal and unjustifiable attacks on mariners and commercial shipping.”
It is also important to acknowledge that the UN Security Council agreed a resolution that unequivocally condemned the Houthis’ attacks. I am glad that my hon. Friend the Member for Manchester, Withington (Jeff Smith) specifically referred to that resolution.
With Britain taking this targeted military action, it is important that the House recognises the professionalism and bravery of our armed forces—I am sure we are all united on that. I am referring, of course, to those who are serving on HMS Diamond and those flying RAF Typhoons. Of course, we recognise that military strikes can reduce and perhaps eliminate the immediate threat to free navigation but, as a number of Members have indicated, there needs to be a wider political strategy. The Defence Secretary touched on that subject at the start of the debate, but will the Minister indicate more precisely and in greater detail what the strategy is?
We all know only too well the horrific suffering that the people of Yemen have experienced over the past few years, with the terrible civil war and the appalling humanitarian crisis that unfolded as a result. The UK has a historical responsibility in the area, and we also are the UN penholder for Yemen, so I would appreciate it if the Minister elaborated on the Prime Minister’s comments to the House yesterday about what further assistance can be given to the people of Yemen to help to alleviate their suffering.
A number of Members referred to the terrible situation in Gaza. The situation is truly terrible. I do not accept, however, the Houthi claims that attacking ships from around the world is somehow linked to the conflict in Gaza. There is a desperate need for a humanitarian truce leading to a sustainable ceasefire in Gaza. Indeed, we must move as quickly as we possibly can to a two-state solution. That is in everyone’s interests, as the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran) said very clearly.
It has to be said that the actions by the Houthis in the Red sea are an attack on the international community and the rule of law, and they should be seen for what they are. Let me be clear: Labour supports proportionate airstrikes, but I would welcome clarification from the Minister on the points that I have raised.
Iran (Sanctions) Regulations 2023
Wayne David Excerpts(2 months, 4 weeks ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under you, Mr Dowd. We, on this side of the House, welcome this statutory instrument. It puts into practice the commitment made by the Foreign Secretary on 6 July to introduce such measures.
During the past 18 months or so, we have seen a significant increase in Iran’s reprehensible behaviour at home and abroad. In Iran, the authorities have brutally suppressed the protests of women and young Iranians who have dared to demand freedom and a better future. In the past 18 months, the Iranian regime has probably executed more people than any other country in the world. Let us not forget that it continues, too, to detain UK-Iranian dual nationals.
Across the middle east, of course, we have seen an increase in Iranian-sponsored terrorism. We all understand that Iran has close links to Hamas, proxies in Yemen who are acting against international shipping, and close links to Hezbollah, which is a very real threat to the north of Israel; and, as we all know, Iran has been—and is—supplying drones to Russia for use in Ukraine.
It is because of the Iranian regime’s internal repression and external aggression that we welcome these sanctions regulations. But there is another reason why we support the measures: in this country, almost a year ago, the security services indicated that they had foiled 15 plots against individuals. I suspect that the situation, if anything, has become worse. Let me be clear: we cannot and should not acquiesce to, or tolerate, individuals being harassed or silenced here for having the bravery to speak out against this despicable Iranian regime. I believe that that view is shared by all parts of the House and by members of the Iranian diaspora community in this country.
I will, however, ask the Government to explain in a little more detail how the measures will be implemented—in particular, if there are those who seek to evade the sanctions, can the Minister explain the severity of the consequences? Moreover, he mentioned that a significant thing about the regulations is that they take into account what is being done abroad. How exactly will the assessment be made before the sanctions are introduced in this country against Iranians?
Has the Minister given further consideration to proscribing the IRGC, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Warley mentioned? As he will be aware, Labour has promised and proposed a new mechanism for the proscription of foreign state-funded actors. I will be appreciative if the Minister has given that proposal due consideration and, if he has done so, if he could indicate his views. I understand that there is a collective Government position, although, as my right hon. Friend suggested, there are differences within Government. What is the Government’s position? I wonder if the Minister would be good enough to elucidate that for us.
We welcome the measures, but will the Minister at least give a commitment to monitor the situation and consider further action if the Government deem it necessary?
Oral Answers to Questions
Wayne David Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
Recently the International Criminal Court prosecutor, Karim Khan KC, visited Israel and the west bank. In relation to Gaza, he stated:
“A law is not some cosmetic adornment that can be disregarded. It’s a fundamental requirement that must be complied with.”
I assume the Minister will agree with that. If that is the case, will he ensure that Britain co-operates fully with the prosecutor in his work?
Mr Mitchell
As a strong supporter of the International Criminal Court, Britain will always co-operate. We strongly support the ICC. The hon. Gentleman will know that, as a state party to the Geneva convention, the Israeli Government are obliged to take action against Israeli nationals accused of grave breaches of international humanitarian law, were there to be any, so that would not be a matter for the ICC.
Israel and Palestine
Wayne David Excerpts(4 months, 1 week ago)
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Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr McCabe.
No one can doubt the gravity of the situation in Gaza. Despite what we see on our television screens night after night, we cannot begin to understand the horror for the people of Gaza, who live through this terror day in, day out. It is particularly moving and distressing to see so many children who have lost their lives and are being injured in such a terrible way.
Equally, no one can doubt the sincerity of the people of this country who share our emotions and who decided to sign the petitions in such great numbers—many thousands of people. I have also been extremely moved by the contributions that we have heard from Members today. We have heard a number of genuine and heartfelt contributions; if there is a commonality between them, it is that our shared view is that the killing and horror must stop as quickly as humanly possible. The question is: what would our intervention be most effective in doing, and what form should that intervention take?
A number of people have said that we should be arguing for a ceasefire from both parties as quickly as possible. I can understand the sentiment behind that, because we all want to stop the killing, but it is important to bear in mind that if we are to have a genuine ceasefire, it needs both warring parties to agree to that. Unfortunately, there is little indication that that would be the case.
That is why, personally, I believe very strongly that we must argue for a meaningful cessation of violence. It has happened on one occasion; sadly, it did not continue, but I still think it is worth making the case for that, because that will save lives and will hopefully move us towards a situation in which we could have a genuine, long-lasting peace. It is also important to recognise that that momentary pause saw the release of a number of a hostages. That is something that we must never forget. It was extremely important for those families who were concerned about those hostages, who were being held in the most appalling conditions and were being treated badly, it seems. That must be foremost in our minds as well.
A further meaningful cessation of violence would allow the real relief that is desperately needed to come into Gaza in a meaningful way. We had some short respite, but that is obviously nowhere near enough. We must place the emphasis on what is desperately needed by so many people there: more food, more water, more medicines and, critically, more fuel.
It is so important that we do not lock ourselves into seemingly esoteric discussions about what words or phrases we use. We must do everything we humanly can to make life easier for the people of Gaza. In a very practical sense, there is also a need for our Government and all Governments to argue for more relief routes into Gaza. I strongly urge the Government to make forceful representations, if they are not currently making them already, for the Kerem Shalom crossing to be opened by the Israeli Government as quickly as possible.
I want to make a few broader points as well. Inevitably, and quite rightly perhaps, our focus is on the situation in Gaza. Let us not forget what is happening in the west bank as well. Since 7 October, we have seen an increase in settler violence, we have seen some 300 attacks by illegal settlers, and we have seen 250 Palestinian people killed, as well as four Israelis. It is extremely important to recognise in this situation that those settlements—which have taken place, are currently expanding, and it seems being given more funds by the Israeli Government—should not be there. They are illegal settlements.
Today, at least, we should be saying that there should be no increase in those settlements. Hopefully, we can move to a situation where there are no such settlements in a future Palestinian state. It is also important that we note what the United States of America has being saying and doing, and I take note of what my hon. Friend the Member for Dulwich and West Norwood (Helen Hayes) said regarding action on visas. I think it is very important that the United Kingdom does exactly the same as the United States.
Matt Western
My hon. Friend is making a powerful speech. On the point on the illegal settlements, does he share a concern that this current conflict is potentially being exploited by certain factions within the coalition Government to pursue a particular ideology, and to actually accelerate that programme of illegal settlement in the pursuit of the eradication of Palestine as once imagined?
Wayne David
My hon. Friend makes a very good point indeed. It is very important that if we are going to move towards a two-state solution—I will say a little bit more about that in the future—it is necessary for us to recognise that political change and moderation is needed on both sides. We cannot have a situation where Hamas are seen to be the dominant Palestinian voice—they are not, incidentally, but many people believe that to be the case—when they want the destruction of the state of Israel.
We have to make sure we have strong connections with, and give support to, more reasonable Palestinian people who want to have a compromise with Israel and a two-state solution; but that applies equally to Israel as well. Unfortunately, Netanyahu is on record as being against a two-state solution, and there are elements in his war cabinet who want to see the encroachment of Israeli settlers into much of the west bank—some people have even suggested into Gaza as well.
It is extremely important that the international community begins to think about those issues, and begins to work towards a consensus on what needs to be achieved in the future. That is very important for ensuring we have a longer-term perspective, even in these dark days of conflict.
Andrew Percy
I am the only Conservative Member on this side of the Chamber, so hopefully I can be indulged a little. I hope the hon. Gentleman was not trying to draw any equivalence between democratically elected politicians in Israel—whether we agree with them or not—and desire for political change involving Hamas. On that point, would he share my concern that while we all want to see increased co-operation, Palestinian pollsters the Arab World for Research and Development—that is based in Ramallah, and I have met with its staff—show that, I think, 83% of Palestinians across the west bank currently reject co-existence with Israel, and 75% of them support the attacks of 7 October. How are we going to affect that political change when the views on the other side seem so intransigent on the issue?
Wayne David
First, I do recognise that Israel is a democratic state, but at the same time I recognise that a minority of politicians—albeit duly elected—do not articulate what is the view of most Israeli people; that is why it is important for us to stress moderation. I am someone who has been to both the west bank and Israel, and I strongly believe that the vast majority of everyone I met wants peace, and to live together in peaceful co-existence. It is our duty to work towards that, and to make sure they have the context in which they can work out that long-term peaceful settlement.
I want to say something about looking to the future. The hon. and learned Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry) made a very good point when she stressed the importance of international humanitarian law—it is absolutely essential. We cannot be in a situation where we pick and choose which international laws we like; they must apply to everyone in all situations. It is incumbent on us as an international community, and as a country that upholds international law, to make sure that the International Criminal Court is able to look into the conduct of this conflict by all sides and come to some very firm conclusions that must influence our politics in the future.
It is also important that the Government play a very proactive role in the future of the middle east. I might be wrong, but I get the impression that over the last few years our Government have tended to downgrade the importance of their engagement with the middle east—that needs to change. There needs to be far greater emphasis, consistency and real commitment from the Government, and I hope we will see that in the future. It is important we see that in the near future, because once this conflict is over what we cannot see is another Nakba occurring. We cannot see the population of Gaza being forced into Egypt: that is totally unacceptable. That is why I want a meaningful cessation of hostilities, so that we can begin to talk materially about these issues. I want to see Gaza being rebuilt, which will require greater investment by the international community. It will mean Britain and others working with the Arab states to make sure that there is sufficient investment and security, both for Palestinians and for Israelis, as soon as the conflict is over.
My final point is that it is very important that in this difficult situation we hold out a clear vision for the future, and it is also very important that that future must rest on a two-state solution. To achieve that, we need to have hope; we need to have hope that it is better for people to live together than to engage in perpetual conflict. The choice for the international community is very clear. One possibility is pretending that, once the conflict is over, “There you are, we can pack our bags, forget about it and go on to the next conflict.” We cannot do that. We must learn the lesson of history, which is that if the international community, working with everybody in the region, does not do its level best to make sure that there is a two-state solution, this terrible conflict will be replicated in 20 years’ time, another 20 years after that and so on.
We have to make sure that the issue is addressed in a systematic and coherent way. I very much hope that the Government share that perspective and I look forward to hearing the Minister’s response to this debate.
Oral Answers to Questions
Wayne David Excerpts(5 months, 4 weeks ago)
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James Cleverly
I have a huge amount of sympathy for the plight of the families who have either lost loved ones or have loved ones who are still held hostage in Gaza. I will be meeting families who have members held hostage later.
As I have said regularly, we are well aware of Iran’s influence. Any decision about proscription will be a cross-Government decision. The advantages and disadvantages of proscribing will always be at the heart of any decision-making process, but as the hon. Lady knows, we do not comment on future sanctions or proscription designations.
Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
Following on from the question of the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran), I emphasise that Labour has been calling on the Government for many months to proscribe the IRGC. Evidence is emerging of Iranian involvement in the Hamas terrorist attack in Israel. We also understand that the United States has called on the United Kingdom to follow its example. I therefore press the Foreign Secretary: when will the Government act, by using either existing terrorism legislation or a new process of proscription directed at the IRGC?
James Cleverly
I remind the House that the IRGC—as well as certain individuals who are members of it—is sanctioned in its entirety. As I said in response to the question of the hon. Member for Oxford West and Abingdon (Layla Moran), no international measure comes without cost. There are advantages and disadvantages to proscription, which fundamentally would mean that we could have no direct diplomatic relations with Iran. As I have said, we always take those issues seriously, and any decision will be made cross-Government, but we do not speculate on future sanctions or proscription designations.