Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle(10 years, 4 months ago)
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Chris Williamson (Derby North) (Lab)
Although it is welcome that those jobs have been created, will the Secretary of State accept that many of them are insecure and low paid? If people do not have money in their pockets because they are working on zero-hours contracts, that will have a negative impact on the long-term economic recovery of our country—[Interruption.]
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We do not need Back Benchers to join in at this stage. We are all right; I am sure the Secretary of State can handle it himself.
Vince Cable
Indeed, I believe that in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency unemployment has fallen by 46%, and he is gracious enough to have acknowledged that. We are in the first stage of the long-term recovery. There are, of course, issues around low pay and low productivity that will require investment, and that is where our long-term commitment to growth and industrial strategy is important. We want employment that is high-quality and secure, and all the evidence suggests that, compared with most parts of Europe, British employment in this recovery is more permanent and secure than elsewhere, although clearly there is more to be done.
That leads us to zero-hours contracts, which as far as we can establish apply to around 2% to 4% of jobs. The issue has aroused a great deal of concern because of its implication that many people are insecure in their work, and on the back of those concerns I initiated a call for evidence and a consultation on how we should deal with the problem. Two contrasting views came to light. There were indeed shocking examples of abuse, many of which are captured in the problem of exclusivity clauses that we have now committed to end. At the same time, it was clear that zero-hours contracts have a genuine positive role in the labour market and are appreciated by many individuals because of the opportunity they provide, as well as the advantages to employers. Indeed, recent research from the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, which has done much of the authoritative work in this field, contrasts satisfaction levels in zero-hours contracts with other work, and whether people are treated with respect by their senior management. It shows that zero-hours contracts are marginally better in both those criteria than other forms of employment.
Lorely Burt (Solihull) (LD)
I have had a lot of involvement with companies that have suffered at the hands of such directors, who subsequently set up again, perhaps by using a pre-pack or some other way. The unsecured creditors are the people who suffer and they may have to absolve their company. One suggestion is that we should have a register to track the record of a company’s directors so that any company wishing to supply could look it up and see what is going on.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. Twenty-four Members want to speak, but the Front Benchers have already taken 30 minutes and we have only just begun. We want to get everybody in. I am sure that interventions are helpful, but they may be holding up the end of the speech.
Vince Cable
I was trying to be helpful to Back Benchers by taking their points, Mr Deputy Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker
I do not mind the Secretary of State taking interventions, but he will understand that, if Back Benchers cannot get in, it will be because of the amount of time the Front Benchers have taken. He must choose which he prefers—interventions or Back-Bench speeches.
Vince Cable
That is a choice I would rather not have to make.
I entirely agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Lorely Burt), who makes a useful point and we will reflect on its practicality. She also mentioned pre-packs. She will have noticed that there are measures in the Bill to deal with bad pre-packs. Of course, many of them provide satisfactory outcomes, but some do not. We are going to try to differentiate them in a more structured way.
The final issue in relation to transparency is the insolvency regime. We are going to introduce measures to give greater confidence to the regime when companies enter insolvency. We will remove administrative burdens, which I hope will save creditors substantial amounts of money. We are talking about having a less complex system of regulation. I think there are eight or nine separate regulatory bodies in the insolvency area, and there are issues regarding insolvency fees and fairness. It is a complex bit of legislation, but an important one.
Moving on to help for small business, I will start with an area that has preoccupied a lot of people in the House, namely pubs. There are 20,000 or so sole traders and small businesses that run tied pubs across England and Wales. In recent research, the Campaign for Real Ale found that 57% of tenants who are tied to large pub companies earn less than £10,000 a year, compared with just 25% of tenants who are free of tie, and 80% of them earn less than £15,000 a year. In other words, a very large number are taking home less than the minimum wage. Through the Bill, we want to address the imbalance in bargaining power between pub companies and their tied tenants, to ensure they are treated fairly by their pub-owning companies.
Blacklisting
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle(11 years, 10 months ago)
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Vince Cable
I have taken a lot of interventions. I want to make a little progress, then perhaps I will take some more.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. A lot of Members want to speak, and the more time that is taken up with interventions, the less time will be available for their speeches. I do not mind which happens, but Members must choose. The Secretary of State has said that he will not give way for a while, and I know that some Members who want to catch my eye are getting frustrated.
Vince Cable
I should like to go through the issues that have been raised step by step. Most of them relate to the past. I want to start by describing factually the matters covered by the 2008-09 Information Commissioner’s investigation. He used his powers under the Data Protection Act 1998 to launch an investigation, based on a story in The Guardian newspaper that an intelligence system had been used to vet workers for employment in the UK construction industry. As a result of that, a search warrant was issued in 2008, leading to a search of the premises of the Consulting Association in February 2009. The investigation resulted in the successful prosecution of the Consulting Association for breaching data protection law and it was closed down. The owner, Mr Kerr—now, I think, deceased—was fined £5,000, which was the maximum fine at the time. The levels of fines have now been radically changed. Fifteen enforcement notices were issued against the Consulting Association and some of its user construction companies to stop them collecting and using personal data for vetting purposes.
The investigation looked further, but came to the conclusion that there was no evidence that blacklisting existed in other industries, or that the number of construction workers blacklisted went beyond those in the files secured by the Information Commissioner. In other words, it addressed the question that Members are now trying to raise in their interventions. It is important to reflect that that wholly independent body asked the questions that are now being asked, and that it came to that very clear conclusion.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We will have to have very short interventions if Members also wish to catch my eye.
Vince Cable
Of course blacklisting is wholly and utterly unacceptable, and of course the industry needs to understand that—I think that was the first remark I made. If it is about sending signals, we have already done so, and of course we will have a close look at what the Scottish Affairs Committee has said and whether it has found any new evidence. I do not think that this debate has brought forward anything new, but perhaps the Select Committee has. Obviously, if there is fundamental new information, logically we will look at that, but we have not yet seen it.
Then there is the question of the existing legislative framework, to which the hon. Member for Streatham drew attention. Let me just go over the legislative framework. The Data Protection Act 1998 was the basis on which the investigation took place, and the Information Commissioner used the maximum legal powers available at the time, which have since been increased, hence the ability to use civil penalties of £500,000. There is also the Trade Union and Labour Relations (Consolidation) Act 1992, which makes it unlawful to employ a person because they are a member—or, indeed, not a member—of a trade union or because they refuse to join or leave a trade union. It is equally unlawful for an agency to refuse employment services on those grounds. As we have heard, an individual can bring an employment tribunal complaint within three months of an offence taking place, or longer if it was not reasonably practical to bring the claim in time. That is what many workers have done in this case. Finally, there is the legislation that the previous Government introduced, the Employment Relations Act 1999 (Blacklists) Regulations 2010, under which it became unlawful to use, compile, sell or supply blacklists of trade union members or activities for discriminatory purposes such as employment vetting.
There was a decade of review of the 1999 Act and its implications. Several Members, including the hon. Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage), have asked why action was not taken more quickly. Let me go through the history of that decade. The Employment Relations Act 1999 introduced the power for the Secretary of State to make regulations to outlaw the creation, use, sale or supply of blacklists, but no regulations were introduced in 1999. Four years later, in 2003, the Government carried out a public review of the effect of the Act and concluded that there was no evidence of blacklisting, but they did publish draft blacklisting regulations and said that they would introduce them swiftly if the need arose. The ICO then investigated the Consulting Association, after which the Government introduced the regulations that had been published in draft.
Therefore, there was a very long process of consultation. Preparatory legislation was produced in case there was evidence that something had taken place, and indeed there was and the Government acted. My approach is exactly the same. If companies have found a way around the regulations and abuses are still taking place, we of course need to look at taking fresh steps, but I am waiting to hear that evidence.
Vince Cable
From a human point of view, drawing a line at that point clearly caused damage. However, on a wide variety of measures the House has always taken the view that retrospective legislation is dangerous and creates all kinds of problems.
A number of individuals believe that they have been affected by the blacklisting and they have taken action through the courts. As I understand it at the moment, last year 86 workers who believed that they were blacklisted launched a High Court claim against Sir Robert McAlpine for conspiring with other firms to keep them out of work. Legal proceedings on that action are still under way, so I cannot usefully discuss the matter. However, a major legal action is taking place and it will, of course, affect the issue of redress.
In conclusion, I repeat the points I made a moment ago. My primary concern, in the job that I now have, is what is happening under the Government in respect of my responsibilities in this field. I am concerned to read that abuse is, or even may be, taking place. My door is open at any time to any Opposition or Government Member who has evidence of abuse, because we want to stop it and we will certainly investigate it if it is happening. I will look carefully at the report of the Scottish Affairs Committee to see whether fundamentally new questions have emerged from its inquiry.
We will deal with the other issues in the summary session. If Opposition Members or trade unions have evidence, I really want them to bring it forward. Innuendo is not helpful; we need evidence.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
I am going to introduce an eight-minute limit; hopefully, we will try to shave a little off the speeches here and there. We will see what we can do.
Directors’ Pay
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle(12 years, 5 months ago)
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Vince Cable
If there is a genuine problem with export licensing, I will be happy to address it, but only a very small proportion of exports are covered by the licensing regime. As the hon. Gentleman will know, they cover defence and national security, and it is important that we are careful in how—
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. I am sure the Secretary of State is going to mention directors’ pay as well.
Vince Cable
I thought the question was about export licensing, and I tried to address it.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
I welcome much of what the Secretary of State said, but the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. What difference will the changes make to the so-called directors—I call them the vermin—of the private equity world who took over Boots the Chemist five years ago and have now sold it off to the Americans? Will he announce how much money they have screwed out of this deal?
Sunday Trading (London Olympic Games and Paralympic Games) Bill [Lords]
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. The Secretary of State is trying to answer one intervention and there are about 10 people on their feet. I understand that people want to intervene on him, but they should give him a little time to get through his answers.
Economic Growth and Employment
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle(13 years ago)
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Mr Umunna
First, on borrowing, does the Business Secretary accept that the average of the independent forecast that his Government published last week shows that, for all his claims to be working to a strategy to reduce our debts, his Government could end up borrowing more in every single year remaining of this Parliament than under Labour’s more sensible deficit reduction plan? Secondly, does he accept that confidence indicators when he took office and took charge of his Department were not too bad and were improving until the comprehensive spending review was announced, after which it nosedived?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Order. We must have shorter interventions.
Vince Cable
On the level of borrowing, let us wait until next week and see what the independent forecast is in the Chancellor’s statement. Of course, the reason why borrowing rises when the economy slows down is the flexibility that is built in—the so-called counter-cyclical stabilisers that we employ as part of our fiscal policy. Unlike the United States and other countries, we allow slow-downs to be accommodated in that way, supporting the economy.
The hon. Gentleman asked me what our strategy is to deal with this problem. I will summarise it. There are three parts. First, we have to stick to fiscal discipline to maintain the confidence of the people who lend to us. That is a very simple proposition that is very difficult to realise and it is something we have done. He quoted various comments from business organisations around the country. I keep in touch with such organisations regularly and go around the country to the regions and nations of the UK. I have yet to meet a single representative of the business community who has asked us to slacken our process of deficit reduction—not a single one. They all make it absolutely clear, including the CBI, that they regard plan A, as it is called, which is deficit reduction, as an absolutely necessary pre-condition to stabilising the economy.
The second element relates to the first. Precisely because we have a large amount of debt in our economy, the priority for Government has to be to preserve an environment in which there are low interest rates. The stimulus we get in our economy—the source of demand—comes primarily through monetary policy. Through the Bank of England acting on short-term interest rates, through long-term interest rates related to bond yields, through quantitative easing at the Bank of England—now credit easing—and through a competitive exchange rate, we have a monetary policy that supports growth and demand. Given the massive debt we have inherited, it is only through monetary policy—relatively low interest rates—that we can possibly support the economy.
Trade and Investment for Growth White Paper
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle(13 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Adrian Bailey (West Bromwich West) (Lab/Co-op)
As Chair of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, I wish to make it clear that previous reports from the Committee are slightly less critical of UKTI than may have been suggested by a Member earlier. I broadly welcome the thrust of the White Paper, especially in connection with export credit finance, which is obviously of crucial importance. It is good that that is being seen to be addressed. The White Paper and the Secretary of State both refer to the potential for further trade with the EU, and the removal of non-tariff barriers will have the potential to boost this country’s export income. Can the Secretary of State be more specific about what policies he will pursue in that area and give us assurances that those will have the support of the European Scrutiny Committee?
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Can we have very short questions? There are many Members who wish to contribute, and I want to try to fit everyone in.
Vince Cable
As far as the single market is concerned, I meet Mr Barnier regularly, and there is now a real momentum behind trying to implement the Monti report, which sets out how the single market can be deepened. There are key areas where Britain can do well—such as low-carbon products and services in general, where there are enormous obstacles to trade—and we will focus on those.
Postal Services Bill
Debate between Vince Cable and Lindsay Hoyle
Mr Russell Brown
On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I merely want to put the record straight. The Secretary of State has indicated that I lost 13 post offices but I did not; I lost two. I am anxious that he is bandying figures around.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
That is not a point of order, but the hon. Gentleman has certainly made a point of clarification.
Vince Cable
The hon. Gentleman might want to correct the official record if that is the case.
Let me explain why we need the Bill. We should ask what will happen if we do not act, and do not proceed with it. The Government believe that we still need a universal postal service, collecting from all post boxes and delivering to all 28 million postal addresses six days a week. We will still be required under EU law to fund the universal service if no one can provide it commercially, so the taxpayer could be left to pick up the pieces. We cannot predict how much that would cost, or when it would happen if no action were taken, but we know that it would not be cheap and we are not prepared to take that risk with taxpayers’ money—not with the public finances in the current state. That is why we are determined to press ahead with the Bill.
This is not simply about making sure that taxpayers do not have to cover the costs: it is about doing what is right for the future of the company and its employees. Richard Hooper is clear that if his recommendations are taken forward urgently, the Royal Mail has a potentially healthy future. As my predecessor, the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), said almost two years ago,
“I believe that Royal Mail and the postal market can thrive in the future, provided that decisive action is taken now.”—[Official Report, 16 December 2008; Vol. 485, c. 966.]
We are taking that action.
The problems that Royal Mail faces can be addressed through the Bill. After all, it is the only company with the ability to visit all 28 million addresses on a daily basis. It has an unrivalled customer base, and it can build on its position as the leading provider of letters and parcels by providing a new range of digital products for its customers. The Bill is the only way that we can make that positive future a reality.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
Let us clear this up. We both know that that is not a point of order. Many hon. Members want to speak. Spurious points of order do not help the Chamber. We need to get on with the debate. We may have a chance for everybody to put their opinions afterwards.
Vince Cable
I believe I have given my hon. Friend that reassurance. Royal Mail will not subsidise its competitors, protections will be built in and there will be a genuine regulatory level playing field in a way that has not been quite true in the past.
Previous attempts at legislation on Royal Mail have not had a great history of success. I anticipate that there may be some opposition to the Bill both inside this House and elsewhere, although I believe that after 20 years of false starts, there is now a willingness to do what needs to be done. There is no easy way out, and the problems that Royal Mail faces will not go away. There will be no winners if we fail to act. Royal Mail’s employees will face continued uncertainty over their pensions and their jobs, customers will face a declining service and taxpayers will continue to bear the risks. Ultimately, Richard Hooper was clear that without this action, Royal Mail would fail.
Royal Mail needs this Bill. The company says so, Richard Hooper says so, the previous Government said so and I say so. I therefore strongly commend this Bill to the House.
Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)
I inform the House that Mr Speaker has not selected the amendment.