Postal Services Bill

Russell Brown Excerpts

Wednesday 27th October 2010 Commons Chamber

[Vince Cable]

I shall take further interventions later but I want to proceed with the next step of the argument.

Let me dwell a little on Royal Mail’s financial problems. When I came into government I was left in no doubt as to the real difficulties. I asked Richard Hooper to update his report from December 2008 because I wanted to ensure that the conclusions were still valid—and they are. Let no one in the House be under any illusion regarding Royal Mail’s predicament. I recognise that there has been some progress. Opposition Members who represent areas with sorting offices will know that unions and management are now working together better—we acknowledge that—but that the pension deficit has ballooned. It is now more than £8 billion and Royal Mail has, proportionately, the largest pension deficit of any major company in the United Kingdom. In addition, it loses almost £1 million a day on its trading activity. It is an inefficient business in a market that is declining faster than anyone predicted. Hooper now forecasts that letter volumes could fall by as much as 40% in the next five years if nothing is done. That is why we are moving further and faster.

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I appreciate that the right hon. Gentleman now finds himself in coalition with the Conservatives. There is a pension fund with a substantial amount of money in it; I know there is a deficit, but will he give the House a guarantee that the coalition Government will not do what a previous Conservative Government did to the bus employees superannuation fund? Under Margaret Thatcher they took money from that pension fund, which the Labour Government later had to replace.

[Vince Cable]

I shall address the pension proposals in some detail. They are virtually identical to what the previous Government were preparing to do. We are talking about taking on a massive liability from that fund. Let me remind the hon. Gentleman, who seems to be trying to defend the status quo, that he lost 13 post office branches under the previous Government. We are trying to deal with the problem that he and others have faced.

[Mr Russell Brown]

rose—

[Mr Angus Brendan MacNeil (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (SNP)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Vince Cable]

As I reminded hon. Members a few moments ago, customers in the Hebrides have experienced a decline. We are going to turn that around, and I shall explain the process and investment by which we will do that.

[Mr Russell Brown]

On a point of order, Mr Deputy Speaker. I merely want to put the record straight. The Secretary of State has indicated that I lost 13 post offices but I did not; I lost two. I am anxious that he is bandying figures around.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

That is not a point of order, but the hon. Gentleman has certainly made a point of clarification.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Russell Brown (Dumfries and Galloway) (Lab)]

I apologise to the House for being absent this afternoon. When I applied to the Speaker to take part in the debate, I stated that I would have to chair a meeting at the offices of the Department for International Development, which was the reason for my absence.

The Bill is undoubtedly contentious. Although some would like to do so, we cannot separate Post Office Ltd from Royal Mail and that part of the business that the coalition Government seek to privatise. I should declare an interest as Chair of the all-party group on post offices.

I am deeply disappointed, because, having been in the Chamber when the Secretary of State made his opening remarks, I feel that there has been something of a mad dash to introduce this legislation. I admit that he talked about the right things as far as I am concerned, such as mutualisation and everything that that offers, but I am disappointed, because he should have examined the issue in more detail before we reached this stage of the Bill.

I am not here to negotiate on behalf of either the employees of Royal Mail or the Communication Workers Union, but 10% shared ownership is almost derisory, and a greater shared ownership figure might have been more acceptable to some at the forefront of the issue.

I accept that there is a demand for modernisation and for greater efficiencies. I do not think that anyone in this House fails to recognise that. I appreciate that some Members will have visited their local sorting offices, but I say to Members from all parts that if they speak to their local staff, as I regularly do at my five local sorting offices, they will hear each and every worker, including their managers, say that they have done their utmost to adhere to what the company has asked of them. They have modernised.

We have reached the stage at which any further attempts to make some of those businesses more efficient will result in job losses, and employees are at a total loss to understand what more they can do as individuals in that work force. We have seen 50,000 jobs lost, and, if the Bill is passed and delivers what many Opposition Members think it will, we could see another 50,000 to 60,000 job losses.

I represent a rural constituency, and the universal service obligation is sacrosanct, but is absolutely nothing in the Bill provides a cast-iron guarantee that the current six-days-a-week delivery to every door will continue. I mentioned—and I wish to mention again—that I recognise that there is a black hole in the pension fund, but it is a significant pension fund, and I issue a warning to the coalition Government. I sincerely hope that they go nowhere near that pension fund to do what the previous Conservative Government did to the bus employees’ pension fund after bus deregulation.

This is a Bill with unintended consequences: the closure of post offices. I know that Government Members have mentioned what the previous Labour Government did, but if they cast their minds a little further back, they will find that thousands of post offices closed on an ad hoc basis. There was no structure to their closure at all, and I say to the hon. Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins)—it was a point that I wished to make in an intervention on him, but I shall make it now—that the things that keep post offices open today are, without a shadow of a doubt, the access criteria. I do not know whether the Government intend to keep those criteria in place.

Some 41% of the business that our post offices transact daily is as a result of the inter-business agreement. The National Federation of SubPostmasters wants a 10-year agreement, and anything less than that will result in post offices withering on the vine. So, there is a warning: the 10-year agreement that has been asked for should be carefully considered.

Post bank is not the white knight that we all expected, but it must be introduced. In a briefing, the postal services Minister did talk about asking Departments to provide additional business for our post offices. I only wish that that could happen. If it were possible, and if we were able to make it happen, it would have happened by now.

The issue of green giros has been raised, but the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, the hon. Member for Thornbury and Yate (Steve Webb), who is responsible for pensions, refused to meet a small delegation from our all-party post offices group.

I thank you for calling me, Mr Deputy Speaker, but I urge caution on this Bill and on the unintended consequences that it could bring.