Higher and Further Education

Tristram Hunt Excerpts

Tuesday 11th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

Why did the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills not stand up to the Home Office and the UK Border Agency, and not stand up for British universities and their reputation around the world, by not allowing this crazy decision to go ahead, which is doing untold damage to this world-class industry?

[Mr Willetts]

It was an operational decision by the UK Border Agency, for whom the matter is very clear. Highly trusted status, which is enjoyed by individual universities, is highly prized and brings heavy responsibilities. UKBA’s assessment, independently made, was that London Met was not meeting the responsibilities that it needed to in order to have highly trusted status. In those circumstances, it was unable to advise Ministers that the situation should be allowed to continue. That is the background to the decision, but we are focusing on ensuring the best possible support for legitimate overseas students as constructively as we can.

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[Mr Willetts]

We inherited from the previous Government a simple line in the 2009 autumn statement announcing £600 million of cuts in higher education, science and research. Absolutely no work had been done about where the cuts should be and how they should be delivered, but they would have meant either falling student numbers or less support for science and research. We have been able to offer cash protection in a ring-fenced science budget, and as I showed the House earlier this evening, there has been an increase in the total funding available for teaching in our universities. To achieve that when we are facing the severe financial problems that we inherited from the previous Government is evidence of our commitment to opportunities for young people and to universities and research.

That is exactly what the outside experts say. For example, I remind the Opposition spokesman of the assessment by the Institute for Fiscal Studies. It stated in June:

“The HE funding regime to be introduced in England in September 2012 will be substantially more progressive than the current system. Roughly the poorest 30% of graduates, in terms of lifetime earnings, will be better off…than under the current system…Universities will also be better off, on average, and the taxpayer will save around £2,500 per graduate.”

Only yesterday I met the head of the education division of the OECD, who was here to launch “Education at a Glance”, its annual publication. He described our system of repaying loans as

“the most advanced system in the OECD”,

and added that

“probably no system does it better.”

That was what the impartial head of the OECD’s education division said yesterday.

[Tristram Hunt]

rose—

[Mr Willetts]

I hope that the hon. Gentleman will agree that he should endorse the assessments of the IFS and OECD.

[Tristram Hunt]

While the Minister was having that conversation, did the OECD back the Government’s strategy of an 80% cut in the teaching budget at a time when every other major nation is investing in education and higher education and thinking about those industries as part of the future rather than cutting them? We are in the same bracket as Romania.

[Mr Willetts]

The OECD actually believes that our proposals are a way of continuing to ensure that a good number of people go to university even when we are having to save Exchequer funding. It believes that other countries can learn from our model.

I have set out our policies, and I should like to turn to the Labour party’s policies, about which the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood said surprisingly little in her lengthy speech. We know from the motion that Labour’s policy is £6,000 fees. There is a long and unhappy history to Labour’s higher education policy. I will not take her through the whole of it, although I am tempted. I will jump straight to where we are at present, as stated in the motion and in the longest single statement of Labour’s policy that we have found, the speech by the shadow Secretary of State on 2 December. His explanation of that policy took up a tiny fragment of the speech, a few lines. It was the type of fragment of text that academics in our universities love to pore over. He said:

“I’ll explain how this works: reducing the maximum level of fees to £6,000 while compensating universities for the difference costs £1.1 billion.”

That was his starting point. Well, the Department’s official costings show that his policy of bringing fees down to £6,000 would cost £2 billion. That £2 billion is currently going to our universities to pay for the education of students and for outreach, bursaries and access programmes that we thought Labour supported. He would take away that £2 billion of funding for higher education. He claims that he would miraculously be able to finance that, although admittedly he would only have £1.1 billion so he is £900 million short already.

Let us go through how the shadow Secretary of State claims he would plug that gap. He stated:

“£350 million will come from automatic savings from reducing the cap to £6,000 because it will mean some associated expenditure, such as on as fee waivers, will no longer be required”.

The trick is in the words “such as”, because it is not just fee waivers. Let us be clear about what that “associated expenditure” is. It is programmes to assist with student retention; outreach programmes whereby universities go to local schools and encourage students to apply to university; and bursary programmes financed out of the higher fees to offer our students increased financial support. I have a simple question for the hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood. I have already permitted her to intervene twice, and I will do so again. Can she offer a guarantee that no student at university would be worse off as a result of the changes that she would make to save that £350 million?

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[Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), who did not seem to touch on tuition fees at all.

[Tristram Hunt]

She talked about further education.

[Pauline Latham]

But we are talking about tuition fees.

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle), who raised all the issues that I want to talk about. He has studied what has been going on and he cares about it. I am pleased that young people at last understand what the tuition fees are all about. All the demonstrations in London and elsewhere took place because students had been misled by the Labour party, the National Union of Students and the media, who were determined to make them realise that they would have to pay the fees up front. They have never had to pay up front and they never will have to. They have to start paying after they earn over £21,000.

I have spent quite a lot of time talking to young people in my constituency—some who have been through university and finished, under the old system introduced by Labour, and some who are going to university this October. I have also talked to people working in this establishment for Members of Parliament. Those who went to university under the old system say that they wish that they had studied under the system that is going to start now. They would far rather not have had to ask their parents to help them pay the money up front. They would rather pay it themselves. It is much better for people from poorer backgrounds to be able to pay so that their parents do not have to contribute. It is better that they do not feel under pressure to ask their parents to pay, because they cannot afford it.

The students who will be going through now will earn more than many people in this country. When I ask young people whether they think it is fair that the caretaker or dinner lady in their school has to pay for their education, even though they will never earn as much as the young people, I find that the young people understand that it is much better that they pay back to the taxpayer, who is funding their education in the first place.

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[Tristram Hunt (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab)]

First, I declare an interest as a lecturer at Queen Mary university of London. I therefore know something about the university system first hand and from the inside; I am not sure that the hon. Member for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) does.

Over the past year, the number of young people out of work for 12 months or more has reached its highest level since July 1997. Over the past year, youth unemployment in my constituency has risen by almost 300%. Alongside their disastrous economic policy, that inability to get a grip on youth unemployment is one of the defining stories of this increasingly discredited, hapless Government. That is why this debate is so important. If we are going to pay our way in the world, as the Chancellor likes to say, and deliver the right jobs to rebuild our economy, we desperately need a skilled and well-educated work force. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle upon Tyne East (Mr Brown) said, graduate employment is vital in the global marketplace, and no Labour Member can see how on earth Government policy is going to deliver that.

When one speaks to vice-chancellors and students, they say that they see a Government who fail to value higher education; who put cart before horse by introducing tuition fees with no proper strategy for the sector, given that we have yet to see a White Paper on it; who fail to take on the Home Office over immigration, casting ridicule on our university sector right around the world; and who cut investment when every other competitor is looking to support learning and education.

In a more sympathetic previous life, the Minister for Universities and Science wrote a book on the plight of young people today—“generation crunch”, as he called them. We thought it was a critique; in fact, it was a recipe for policies. He then introduced one of the most expensive tuition fee systems in the western world, where student debts of £30,000 to £40,000 in places such as Derby will become the norm. In our view, this level is simply too high.

[Gordon Birtwistle]

What would the debt be under a cap of £6,000? Does the hon. Gentleman have many students in his constituency who, with a salary of £1,850 a month, would object to paying back £8 a month?

[Tristram Hunt]

I am happy to have taken that intervention, which allows me to say that the debt would be less because we would be charging £6,000 as a cap rather than £9,000.

[Pauline Latham]

rose—

[Tristram Hunt]

I will not take any more interventions because I want to allow colleagues to speak.

When the cost of providing a world-class education is already so high, why on earth would the Government have as their priority the slashing of 80% from the teaching budget? That miscalculation led to the nonsensical core and margin proposals, which, in effect, incentivise students to take up cheaper courses, with poorer students often taking up poorer courses. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) suggested, that will mean local people going to local universities which do not always supply the kind of education that they want but to which they are driven by price structures.

What is more, we know that this policy is really going to bite in the middle-ranking universities just below the Russell group which are charging £9,000 a year. We have already heard about the difficulties that Southampton university is facing. These universities are complaining about the implications of the policy. They are also complaining about what is happening in university entrance departments as regards the AAB marks. The last-minute upgrades are playing havoc with course planning. Perhaps the Government’s strategy is for a little bit of creative destruction in the public services; perhaps they want a few universities to go bust. If the Minister can be honest about his policy, we would like to hear that from the Dispatch Box.

In the past, Ministers have poured scorn on those of us who warned that such fees would deter students. Well, now the numbers are in. History applications are down by 7%, design applications are down by 16%, and non-European language applications are down by 21%. I am interested to hear how this Government, who hope we will export to the BRIC economies of Brazil, Russia, India and China and make our way in the world, can think that non-European language applications being down by 21% is in any way a good economic strategy for this country.

Staffordshire university in my constituency has experienced a drop of 12%, while nearby Keele university is taking over 1,000 fewer students this year. Overall, the number of students accepted on to higher education courses last year fell by over 30,000. With student numbers falling by far less in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, one does not need a degree, even from the university of Winchester, to work out what is deterring them. We heard about a fall of 14% in applications from Northern Ireland to institutions in Great Britain. That is the reality of what is happening as a result of this policy.

On the question of having different fees in different nations of the United Kingdom, I cannot think of a more sure-fire way to break up the Union than differentials of the kind that we are seeing. This is not the Government’s particular problem, but by increasing the cap to £9,000 they are, as used to be said, accelerating the contradiction.

It is clear that the Opposition policy is correct. It is right that we should use corporation tax to lower tuition fees, and it is right that we should ask those who earn £65,000-plus to make a larger contribution.

While we are discussing higher education, let me say something, briefly, about the controversy at London Metropolitan university. To be frank, I am amazed that the Minister and the Business, Innovation and Skills team have allowed the Home Office cack-handedly to undermine one of our most successful global industries. The actions of the UK Border Agency have reverberated around the world and our competitors in America, Australia and Canada are delighted at what has happened. I recently returned from a trip to New Delhi, where the Indian authorities cannot understand why we are seeking to shoot one of our most successful industries in the foot. What London Metropolitan university has done wrong needs to be addressed, but that will not be achieved by punishing those who are studying.

Our competitors around the world recognise that investing in higher education and lifelong learning and widening the skills base are the route to a more prosperous future, but, as colleagues have pointed out, we are one of the only countries in the OECD that is not currently increasing spending on higher education. Instead we are making an 80% cut to teaching budgets. It seems perverse that countries such as Mexico, Russia and India, above all, are succeeding when we are choosing to undermine one of our most successful global industries. The Government have got this totally wrong.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Order. The time limit for speeches is five minutes and I advise Members that any interventions will eat into the time left for the last contributor.

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[Tristram Hunt]

rose—

[Matthew Hancock]

I am sorry, but if the hon. Gentleman had been here at the start of the wind-ups, I might have given way to him.

[Tristram Hunt]

rose—

[Matthew Hancock]

No, I am not giving way. If the hon. Gentleman will not come back for the wind-ups, he is not going to have another say.

The hon. Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) raised concerns about applications from low-income students and asked about FE loans. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Blackpool South (Mr Marsden)—with whom I look forward very much to working—also made the argument about FE loans. Rather like with part-time students in HE, the FE loans policy will remove up-front costs. Following the package that was set out by my predecessor in July—which was welcomed by the Association of Colleges, as well as the hon. Gentleman and others—I very much look forward to working with him and the Chair of the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee on the design of the package, and to talking to him about it soon.

The hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) argued against profit-making universities.

[Tristram Hunt]

Will the Minister give way?

[Matthew Hancock]

I will give way to people who were here for the start of the winding-up speeches, but not those who make a speech and then do not come back.

[Tristram Hunt]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Minister is clearly not giving way. I think that much we have established.

[Matthew Hancock]

It was very clear.

My hon. Friends the Members for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle) and for Mid Derbyshire (Pauline Latham) effectively made the case that we all have a responsibility to let everybody know that no one will pay a penny in their fees until they are earning over £21,000. Let that message go out from here. My hon. Friend the Member for Burnley was typically passionate, and my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Derbyshire showed strong support for Derby university and for apprenticeships.

[Tristram Hunt]

Will the Minister give way?

[Matthew Hancock]

No.

Finally, in the short amount of time available to me, let me say that Government Members faced up to the difficult challenges of funding higher education. However, we do not know what the Opposition stand for. It is like a multiple-choice question. Which is the answer? Is it the graduate tax? We know that the Leader of the Opposition is in favour of a graduate tax because he said:

“I want to have a graduate tax.”

Or is the answer lower fees, paid for by axing bursaries and access schemes and by cutting courses—