Higher and Further Education

Pauline Latham Excerpts

Tuesday 11th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)]

I am pleased to follow the hon. Member for North West Durham (Pat Glass), who did not seem to touch on tuition fees at all.

[Tristram Hunt]

She talked about further education.

[Pauline Latham]

But we are talking about tuition fees.

I am delighted to follow my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley (Gordon Birtwistle), who raised all the issues that I want to talk about. He has studied what has been going on and he cares about it. I am pleased that young people at last understand what the tuition fees are all about. All the demonstrations in London and elsewhere took place because students had been misled by the Labour party, the National Union of Students and the media, who were determined to make them realise that they would have to pay the fees up front. They have never had to pay up front and they never will have to. They have to start paying after they earn over £21,000.

I have spent quite a lot of time talking to young people in my constituency—some who have been through university and finished, under the old system introduced by Labour, and some who are going to university this October. I have also talked to people working in this establishment for Members of Parliament. Those who went to university under the old system say that they wish that they had studied under the system that is going to start now. They would far rather not have had to ask their parents to help them pay the money up front. They would rather pay it themselves. It is much better for people from poorer backgrounds to be able to pay so that their parents do not have to contribute. It is better that they do not feel under pressure to ask their parents to pay, because they cannot afford it.

The students who will be going through now will earn more than many people in this country. When I ask young people whether they think it is fair that the caretaker or dinner lady in their school has to pay for their education, even though they will never earn as much as the young people, I find that the young people understand that it is much better that they pay back to the taxpayer, who is funding their education in the first place.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. Does she agree that one of the benefits of a loans system is that those going to university are far more discerning in their choice, which makes universities work much harder to secure those students and, therefore, drives up standards?

[Pauline Latham]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point. My children used to come back from university with some horrific tales about the sort of education they were getting. I believe that once students become customers the universities will have to sharpen up their act, which they are already doing, and in many cases they are providing a better education for the students now going through the system.

I am pleased to report that none of the people I have spoken with has a problem. Not one person I have spoken with has said that they are not going to university. Some might decide to choose apprenticeships, which my hon. Friend the Member for Burnley mentioned. I am delighted that we have so many opportunities for apprenticeships in this country and surprised that no Opposition Members mentioned them whatsoever, because they are opening up opportunities and we need more people in engineering. We have lots of apprenticeships in Derbyshire, particularly in Derby, and some really high-quality apprenticeships in Rolls-Royce, Bombardier and Toyota. We need all those people, because they are the income generators of the future.

The hon. Member for Birmingham, Ladywood (Shabana Mahmood) said that tuition fees will put off mature students. Well, the interesting statistic from Derby university, which is in my constituency, is that 52% of the student intake are under 21 and 47% are over 21 and mature students. It is also interesting to note that 46% of them are male and 54% are female, and it is extremely good that more women than men are going to Derby university, because that did not use to be the case.

I am pleased to report that in Mid Derbyshire we have a thriving university that has come up through the ranks. People used to write it off, but it is doing incredibly well, under the leadership of Professor John Coyne. It is providing world-class graduates, many of whom work in local industries and businesses because they liked what they saw when they came to live in Derby. I am very pleased about that, because they contribute a huge amount to our economy.

I am sure that many Opposition Members will have seen, before and during the Olympics, the wonderful ceramic flower garden on Cromwell Green, which was the work of a fantastic artist called Paul Cummins, a graduate of Derby university. He has special needs, went through Derby university and has thrived as a result, because he was nurtured there. We need to encourage more students from all backgrounds to go to university. I am pleased to report that Derby university is doing better than ever and is not having the problems in attracting students that universities in some Opposition Members’ constituents are clearly having.

The difference between the two parties that we must recognise is that we like to talk up our education and the opportunities for young people, whereas the Labour party seems to want to undermine the university opportunities that this Government have given students. I am very disappointed about that, because we all need world-class graduates who will contribute to our economy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tristram Hunt]

I am happy to have taken that intervention, which allows me to say that the debt would be less because we would be charging £6,000 as a cap rather than £9,000.

[Pauline Latham]

rose—

[Tristram Hunt]

I will not take any more interventions because I want to allow colleagues to speak.

When the cost of providing a world-class education is already so high, why on earth would the Government have as their priority the slashing of 80% from the teaching budget? That miscalculation led to the nonsensical core and margin proposals, which, in effect, incentivise students to take up cheaper courses, with poorer students often taking up poorer courses. As my hon. Friend the Member for West Bromwich West (Mr Bailey) suggested, that will mean local people going to local universities which do not always supply the kind of education that they want but to which they are driven by price structures.

What is more, we know that this policy is really going to bite in the middle-ranking universities just below the Russell group which are charging £9,000 a year. We have already heard about the difficulties that Southampton university is facing. These universities are complaining about the implications of the policy. They are also complaining about what is happening in university entrance departments as regards the AAB marks. The last-minute upgrades are playing havoc with course planning. Perhaps the Government’s strategy is for a little bit of creative destruction in the public services; perhaps they want a few universities to go bust. If the Minister can be honest about his policy, we would like to hear that from the Dispatch Box.

In the past, Ministers have poured scorn on those of us who warned that such fees would deter students. Well, now the numbers are in. History applications are down by 7%, design applications are down by 16%, and non-European language applications are down by 21%. I am interested to hear how this Government, who hope we will export to the BRIC economies of Brazil, Russia, India and China and make our way in the world, can think that non-European language applications being down by 21% is in any way a good economic strategy for this country.

Staffordshire university in my constituency has experienced a drop of 12%, while nearby Keele university is taking over 1,000 fewer students this year. Overall, the number of students accepted on to higher education courses last year fell by over 30,000. With student numbers falling by far less in Northern Ireland, Wales and Scotland, one does not need a degree, even from the university of Winchester, to work out what is deterring them. We heard about a fall of 14% in applications from Northern Ireland to institutions in Great Britain. That is the reality of what is happening as a result of this policy.

On the question of having different fees in different nations of the United Kingdom, I cannot think of a more sure-fire way to break up the Union than differentials of the kind that we are seeing. This is not the Government’s particular problem, but by increasing the cap to £9,000 they are, as used to be said, accelerating the contradiction.

It is clear that the Opposition policy is correct. It is right that we should use corporation tax to lower tuition fees, and it is right that we should ask those who earn £65,000-plus to make a larger contribution.

While we are discussing higher education, let me say something, briefly, about the controversy at London Metropolitan university. To be frank, I am amazed that the Minister and the Business, Innovation and Skills team have allowed the Home Office cack-handedly to undermine one of our most successful global industries. The actions of the UK Border Agency have reverberated around the world and our competitors in America, Australia and Canada are delighted at what has happened. I recently returned from a trip to New Delhi, where the Indian authorities cannot understand why we are seeking to shoot one of our most successful industries in the foot. What London Metropolitan university has done wrong needs to be addressed, but that will not be achieved by punishing those who are studying.

Our competitors around the world recognise that investing in higher education and lifelong learning and widening the skills base are the route to a more prosperous future, but, as colleagues have pointed out, we are one of the only countries in the OECD that is not currently increasing spending on higher education. Instead we are making an 80% cut to teaching budgets. It seems perverse that countries such as Mexico, Russia and India, above all, are succeeding when we are choosing to undermine one of our most successful global industries. The Government have got this totally wrong.