Civil Proceedings

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 29th March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Maggie Throup]

I shall come shortly to the specific parts of the extension that are relevant to Northern Ireland. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate that we have had ongoing conversations with the devolved Administrations throughout the whole two years.

The Coronavirus Act 2020 also helped to ease the burden on frontline staff in our critical public services. For example, provisions in the Act have helped the courts and tribunal system to keep functioning throughout the pandemic by allowing thousands of hearings to take place remotely.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Minister has now turned to the subject I wanted to ask her about. She talks about our courts, but the reality is that they are in a terrible position. We are up to a record 708 days for the average time it takes to prosecute suspected criminals. The longer those delays go on, the more victims wait. No party can seriously claim to be tough on crime while allowing victims to be left waiting and allowing criminals to spend 708 days before they are prosecuted. Will the Minister apologise to those people who are waiting and tell us that the Government have some kind of strategy to address that appalling record backlog?

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[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

I start by echoing the Minister’s thanks to healthcare and frontline public service workers and, indeed, the public for all they have done to get us to this point after two years of the pandemic. I am grateful for the opportunity to respond to the two motions before the House today on behalf of Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition.

Clearly, as the shadow public health Minister, I will be focusing primarily on elements of the motions that relate to public health, but I will also touch on the extension of the justice provisions relating to coroners’ inquests and remote hearings. I know my colleagues on the Bill Committees for the Judicial Review and Courts Bill and the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill have already engaged constructively with the Government on those provisions and supported their being moved on to statute.

However, we have called for the Government to provide further evidence on the impact that those measures, particularly remote hearings, may have on people with disabilities and those who are digitally excluded. I would be grateful if the Minister reiterated those concerns to her colleagues in the Ministry of Justice—I notice the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) sitting alongside her—and urge them to put the appropriate safeguards in place. With a Crown court backlog already at 60,000—caused, I may add, by the Government’s short-sightedness and incompetence—we must ensure that inequality is not further entrenched in our justice system.

Moving on to public health, the Coronavirus Act 2020 was an unprecedented Act for unprecedented times. It enabled the Government to take rapid and wide-ranging steps to limit the spread of covid-19, and in turn to protect lives, livelihoods and our national health service. Correctly, it was never intended to last forever. Vaccination, as the Minister has said, has proved an invaluable tool in our fight against coronavirus, and it is thanks to our incredible scientists, our NHS staff and the British public that we are able to be here today to debate the end of many of the Act’s provisions.

It is important to note, however, that covid has not gone anywhere—it is still very much here. It has certainly not gone anywhere for the 1.5 million people who are living with the symptoms of long covid, or the 800,000 clinically vulnerable and immunosuppressed people who continue to call on the Government for better clarity and access to antiviral and retroviral treatment. I would be grateful if, in her closing remarks, the Minister outlined what steps the Government will be taking to better support those communities, and when full guidance will be given on free testing provision. In three days’ time, the general public will be unable to access free lateral flow tests, yet there is still no guidance on which groups will remain eligible for free testing.

[Mr Perkins]

On behalf of the numerous immuno-suppressed people in Chesterfield and their families who have contacted me, I thank my hon. Friend for what he has just said. He is absolutely right that many of them still feel prisoners in their own home and feel utterly ignored, and the Government’s failure on sick pay has only added to their sense of being forgotten. Will he reinforce the message to the Government that those people are not being properly catered for?

[Andrew Gwynne]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. I have met numerous groups representing the clinically vulnerable, the clinically extremely vulnerable and the immunosuppressed communities, and the level of anxiety and worry in those communities is clear. While we have all, to some extent, been able to get back to as near a normal life as possible, those communities still feel isolated, under pressure and incredibly concerned about what mixing and social interaction would mean for them, were they to get coronavirus.

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[Andrew Gwynne]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right. Of course, for too many people in this country, that is the reality of their day-to-day to living—and we know that it is going to get worse. I should remind the Government that we are in the middle of a cost of living crisis, although I appreciate that they may not have realised that given the Chancellor’s spring statement last week and his inexplicable decision to clobber working people with the highest tax burden in 70 years. Inflation is at a 30-year high, energy prices are sky-rocketing, and we are facing the biggest drop in living standards since the 1950s. I really do fear that, as my right hon. Friend said, more and more people will be drawn into levels of poverty that we have not seen in this country for a very long time.

This is completely the wrong time for the Government to remove provisions that give people the financial support to self-isolate while also ending free tests. Surely the Minister cannot continue to defend this patently self-defeating policy. If people cannot afford to test and they cannot afford to self-isolate, what does the Minister think will happen? Do the Government think that covid will magically vanish? Of course it will not. Living with covid does not mean ignoring the fact that it exists. It does not mean turning back the clock to 2019 and forgetting that the pandemic ever happened. The pandemic happened, covid is here, and for too many people covid will still be an issue going forward.

In terms of living with covid, only Labour has set out a proper plan that would prepare us for new variants while securing our lives, livelihoods, and liberties. We would prioritise testing and make it fit for the future, fix sick pay, and learn the lessons of the pandemic. The Conservatives’ plan is to repeat the phrase “personal responsibility” over and over again, and hope that no one notices that there actually is no plan. We cannot simply turn back the clock and pretend that covid never happened.

[Mr Perkins]

I entirely agree with my hon. Friend. Does he, like me, feel that the term “personal responsibility” would be slightly less nauseating if it did not come from a Prime Minister in Downing Street where 20 people are today receiving fines from the police for their failure to display any kind of personal responsibility while demanding it from some of the poorest people in the country?

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[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I want to speak briefly about the courts provisions. Like my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne), I do not have any particular issues—in fact, I welcome the recognition of the need to speed up the processes in court. However, we cannot discuss this issue without stopping for a moment to recognise the hugely damaging impact of the current court delays on victims of crime and the extent to which they continue to be doubly punished: punished initially because of the offence against them and punished again when they are forced to wait months or even years for justice.

I have never heard such a self-congratulatory response from the Government than that given by the Minister, especially when we consider that their record, on both the death rate in the country and the economic consequences, pales in comparison with the performance of many European nations. However, Ministers stand there and talk about how wonderfully we did. When it comes to the courts, the reality, as victims in my constituency and those across the country know, is that although things got much worse during the pandemic, they were disastrous before that. They were disastrous because of the scale of court closures between 2010 and 2019, and because legal aid cuts meant that many people ended up representing themselves, which causes court cases to take much longer because those people do not have access to proper judicial advice. The court delays are leaving victims in our constituencies simply waiting and waiting to a totally unreasonable degree. We hear from the police that when victims are left waiting, the stress of that, and of being unable to put an end to their ordeal, often leads them to withdraw permission to go ahead with the case, and criminals get away with what they have done. Not only are victims waiting 708 days—the average time it takes to go from offence to completion of a case—in torment, but criminals are out on the street when they should be banged up, because of the failure of this Government. I welcome these temporary provisions, but there needs to be real acceptance of what is actually happening to victims.

I support what my hon. Friend the Member for Denton and Reddish and the hon. Member for St Albans (Daisy Cooper) said about Evusheld—a drug for those who are immunosuppressed. The hon. Lady is absolutely right that for many of them the last years have been a prison sentence. Somebody who I know and have been to football with over many years has not been to a game for two and a half years. I never thought he would miss a game, but he has not been along since the start of the pandemic. He feels trapped, and absolutely unable to do the things that he would like to. There needs to be progress on that.

I also support what my hon. Friend the Member for Bradford East (Imran Hussain) said about the need to investigate putting on a longer-term basis the welcome provisions that speed up the issuing of death certificates.

Oral Answers to Questions

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Maggie Throup]

The temporary approval was put in place during the pandemic to address a specific and acute medical need to reduce the risk of transmission of covid-19. It was recognised that without it, significant numbers of women would not have been able to safely access abortion services. Thanks to the success and impact of the national vaccination programme, the situation is now very different. In making this decision, the Secretary of State has considered all the risks and benefits regarding the temporary approval.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

17. What assessment he has made of the adequacy of child mental health in-patient provision in Derbyshire.

[The Minister for Care and Mental Health (Gillian Keegan)]

We want to ensure that more children and young people can access appropriate support in their community, and that those who require in-patient cases are treated as close to home as possible. The East Midlands Provider Collaborative is responsible for commissioning tasks for tier 4 in-patient children and adolescent mental health services, including for Derbyshire. It has implemented strategies to ensure the most efficient use of in-patient beds, including a review of the types of beds required by east midlands patients.

[Mr Perkins]

My constituent Stephen Jones wants what the Minister wants, but when his daughter required in-patient child mental health facilities she was forced to go to Stoke to receive them. He had a 70-mile journey every time he wanted to see her, which was obviously very expensive and also just impossible to do. It meant that his daughter’s mental health got worse, because she felt that she had been abandoned by her own family, putting the whole family under pressure. In addition, if people do not receive universal credit, they get no support with the financial impact. Will the Minister tell us more about how we can ensure that children’s mental health is not exacerbated by the inability to access services locally?

[Gillian Keegan]

The hon. Gentleman raises a very important point. Clearly, these are distressing enough times without having that commute and those travel arrangements on top of that, but sometimes the services are highly specialised. We are trying to get the right blend between access to highly specialised in-patient services and making sure that we increase community efforts. We have been working very hard to ensure that there are more community efforts, but we have also invested £10 million more in capital for more beds to make sure people can get treatment closer to home.

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[Sajid Javid]

First, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and to my right hon. Friend the Member for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes) for all the work they have done on this most important of issues. Over the past few months, we have all heard in this House some horrific examples of botched, non-cosmetic procedures scarring people for life. No longer will that be allowed. We will be introducing a licensing regime for such procedures. The details of the regime will be set out in regulations, meaning that it will be flexible, agile and change in response to changes in the cosmetics industry.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

T4. The response from the hon. Member for Lewes (Maria Caulfield) to the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) on health inequalities gives me no confidence that the Government have a plan to address these inequalities at all. She says that we have had a pandemic—of course we have, but the point is that it has happened everywhere. What does it say about this Government’s priorities that waiting times are escalating to a far greater extent in more deprived communities than they are in the more affluent communities that the Tories are so happy to represent?

[Maria Caulfield]

I can only reiterate that we have a laser focus on this issue, and that is why we will be bringing forward the health disparities White Paper. I also point the hon. Gentleman to the NHS’s approach of the Core20PLUS5, where it is targeting the most deprived 20% of the population in five clinical priority areas: maternity, severe mental illness, chronic respiratory disease, early cancer diagnosis and hypertension. We will deliver on resolving disparities issues.

Elective Care Recovery in England

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 7th February 2022 Commons Chamber

[Edward Argar]

It is always hard to prove a counterfactual, as my right hon. Friend will know, but we do know that the necessary measures we took during the pandemic to help to tackle this dangerous virus inevitably had a significant impact on waiting lists. Due to infection prevention and control measures and a range of other things, normal levels of surgery and planned surgery were not able to go ahead. He may be able to extrapolate from that, but, as I say, it is slightly difficult to come up with a detailed counterfactual.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

My mother died prematurely of lung cancer in her early sixties, so I know, as many others in this House do, that when it comes to cancer, waiting times do not just inconvenience; they literally mean the difference between life and death. I agree with the Minister that this is about not just investment but outcomes, and it is purely on outcomes that this Government are failing. Does he agree that the briefings from his Department suggesting the political games at the top of the Conservative party—“Who’s up, who’s down, who’s going to be the next leader?”—are influencing and impacting on the Government’s ability to get this plan out, and that that will not be forgiven by those people who are waiting for cancer treatment right now?

Public Health

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Tuesday 14th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman will know that some measures are already in place such as the ability to get sick pay from day one and that there are hardship funds, but I understand the hon. Gentleman’s question: he asked us to look at that further and we will do so. All these matters are under review.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State give way?

[Sajid Javid]

No, I will take an intervention from the hon. Gentleman later.

I want to turn now to some of the things we have learned about the new variant. This is a fast-moving situation and in the last week we have been able to determine the following things with a high degree of confidence. First, omicron is more transmissible than the delta variant. We can see that the growth in omicron cases here in the UK is now mirroring the rapid increase in South Africa, and the current observed doubling time is around every two days. Although yesterday we reported that there were 4,713 confirmed cases of omicron in the UK, the UK Health Security Agency estimate for the number of daily infections was 42 times higher at 200,000. Scientists have never seen a covid-19 variant capable of spreading so rapidly, so we have to look at what we can do to slow omicron’s advance.

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[Sajid Javid]

Yes, I can confirm that to my right hon. Friend. First, he is absolutely right to make that point. Of course it is not just about individuals entering hospital but about how many days they are likely to stay in hospital. I believe that for the delta variant an individual stays, on average, about nine days in hospital. If that was cut to five or six days, of course it would help with capacity. First, we cannot assume that, because what we are seeing in terms of the impact in South Africa is that hospitalisations there are rising rapidly; there are hundreds of people in intensive care units and on ventilators. It is hard to completely read that across, given that the average age of the South African population is about 27. I hope he would agree that, as with the point I just made on severity, even if the hospital stay is half of what it is at the moment, the rate at which this thing is growing—and if it continues to grow at that rate—means that that benefit could be cancelled out in two days.

[Mr Perkins]

The Secretary of State is facing a lot of criticism from behind him, but he should be assured that on these Benches we absolutely recognise the dangers of the variant before him. Does he accept, however, that having come in to his post saying that the end of restrictions was “irreversible”, he has created an expectation that he is going to constantly ignore the scientific advice, which is why he is facing so much disappointment from those behind him now?

[Sajid Javid]

The hon. Gentleman may have heard earlier, when I started my remarks, that I talked about what I said at this Dispatch Box in July and, specifically, about the risk of a vaccine-escape variant. I do want to talk about the vaccines and this variant—

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[Wes Streeting]

I will outline our position on that, but the hon. Gentleman will have to be patient because I will come on to that later in my speech.

We need to buy the NHS and its helpers some time. The measures put forward for consideration today are an attempt to do just that by slowing the spread of the virus whilst trying to protect Christmas so that people can enjoy the festive season safely, by limiting our interactions in the workplace, by wearing face coverings in settings where the virus finds it easier to spread, by testing before we attend large indoor gatherings, and by getting behind the booster roll-out to ensure that everyone is protected.

[Mr Perkins]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that we are all very conscious of how important this time of year is to the hospitality sector, but does he agree that the greatest threat to the hospitality sector is not restrictions of the type that are before us today, but the sense that the virus is out of control, and widespread cancellations across the sector? So these restrictions enable the hospitality sector to survive in this really difficult time, but also enable us to take proportionate steps to ensure that the spike does not get out of control.

[Wes Streeting]

I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. Indeed, one of our primary reasons for supporting the measures for consideration today is that we on the Labour Benches support business, and we want to support it through a particularly difficult time, when normally trading would be at its busiest.

The goal in the end must of course be to learn to live with the virus. That means effective vaccination, antiviral treatments, and public health measures that have minimal impacts on our lives, our jobs and our businesses. So let me take each of the measures in turn and explain why Labour supports them, and no doubt take interventions.

First, on mask wearing, no one enjoys wearing a mask—I certainly do not, but it is nothing compared with the costs that more draconian restrictions have on our lives, livelihoods and liberties. Masks are simply a price worth paying for our freedom to go out and live our lives during this pandemic. They are proven to be effective, and not only that, but in times of rising infections, when people are feeling increasingly cautious, it is vital to our economy that people feel safe boarding a busy bus or entering a crowded theatre. In our view, the Government should never have got rid of the requirement to wear masks in those settings, but we know why they did. We have counted, in recent weeks, hon. Members on the Government Benches not wearing masks. I am glad to see that compliance has risen somewhat considerably. We know that the Prime Minister no longer has the authority to lead his own party, but I am grateful that Members on the Government Benches have at least listened to their Health Secretary.

Turning to the vaccine pass, and testing to enter nightclubs and large events, I welcome the fact that the Government have listened to representations from Labour and responded. The Labour party has argued consistently against vaccine passports and insisted on people having the option of showing a negative test. Further, we argued that such passes should not be required for access to essential services. On both counts the Government have listened and amended the proposals, and we can support the measure before us today. It is not a vaccine passport. It is, in effect, a default requirement to show a negative test to enter venues where the virus is most likely to spread, with an opt-out available to those with an NHS covid pass.

Covid-19 Update

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 13th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Prime Minister addressed the nation yesterday, but what he has not done is address the NHS in the same way. When I spoke at 4 o’clock to those in Derbyshire, they were unaware. They had had no system letter from the Department of Health about prioritisation of vaccines. They were unaware of whether the quality outcomes framework payments were suspended. And they were unaware that their winter access fund obligations had now been suspended. Will the Secretary of State make sure that all our health care providers are informed about these crucial matters, which actually give reality to the delivery of his really important messages on funding and priorities for the national health service?

[Sajid Javid]

Yes. The hon. Gentleman will appreciate that this is a very fast-moving situation. The NHS made the final decision to go on the expansion—this expansion of the booster programme that I referred to earlier—yesterday, and the system letter has gone out today.

Covid-19 Update

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sajid Javid]

My hon. Friend is right to point to the importance of vaccinating everyone, and especially to the risk to pregnant women. A huge amount of work has gone on in the last few months to reach out to even more pregnant women. A new campaign launched in the last few days and we have already seen a positive response to it. As she says, sadly, almost all the women who are pregnant and in hospital because of covid are unvaccinated.

To refer to the start of my hon. Friend’s question, I think she was suggesting that we wait a week. I hope that she can reflect that, based on the doubling time that we have now observed, that would make a substantial difference to infections, and can take into account the lag between infections and hospitalisation.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Throughout the covid crisis, the Government have continually had to take draconian steps because they took those steps too late. I welcome the fact that the Health Secretary is attempting to get ahead of it this time, because it means that the steps being taken are not as bad as they were last Christmas, which is really important. Mask wearing is important and it is regrettable that it had been stopped on public transport previously. Does it not undermine his message on mask wearing that, when he is making his statement, 21 Conservative Members are not wearing masks in this crowded place?

[Sajid Javid]

I think the approach that we have taken to mask wearing, which I have set out, is the right one.

Smoking Cessation: Prescription of E-cigarettes

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 1st November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Maggie Throup]

My right hon. Friend makes a very good point. I promise I will engage with my opposite number in the Home Office to tackle the illicit import of cigarettes and other substances.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

My mother smoked herself to death and died of lung cancer at the age of 62, so no one needs to tell me how important it is that we do all we can to support people to give up smoking. I also know people who have given up smoking through e-cigarettes but now find that they smoke quite a lot more than they did with traditional cigarettes. What analysis has been done of the impact on overall intake of switching from traditional tobacco cigarettes to e-cigarettes? Do the Government have longer-term concerns about moving people off e-cigarettes to not smoking altogether?

[Maggie Throup]

The hon. Gentleman is quite right that our goal is to help people to stop smoking completely. My heart goes out to him regarding the story about his mother. My father was a smoker and it damaged his health as well. We all have these personal stories. The evidence is clear that e-cigarettes are less harmful to health than smoking tobacco and are an effective way to help people to stop smoking, but, as the hon. Gentleman said, there is always more to be done.

Covid-19 Vaccinations: 12 to 15-year-olds

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 13th September 2021 Commons Chamber

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

rose—

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I have great sympathy for the Minister for having to come here to try to respond to the latest musings from the Prime Minister’s mind. I believe he is saying that when this morning the Prime Minister said that the programme was going ahead, the final advice had not been received and, indeed, while preparations are ongoing, there may be subsequent advice that once again changes everything. Is that what the Minister is saying? How does he expect people to have confidence when the information coming from the Government appears to be so arbitrary and constantly changing, with no real clarity or medical robustness to it at all?

[Nadhim Zahawi]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question, although I think there is an inherent unfairness in his final few words. The whole House, indeed the nation, would agree that this virus and pandemic have been challenging not just for this country and Government, but for the rest of the world. We have had to learn rapidly about the virus and how it behaves in the human body, and there has been the incredible work of the scientists who developed the vaccine, the NHS and everyone involved in the vaccine roll-out. The interim advice is important and has allowed us to have preparations well under way to deliver the covid booster programme. I am confident that the final advice, depending on the COV-Boost study, will allow us to boost the programme this month, and boost at scale.

Covid-19 Update

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 7th June 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

Absolutely. As I said then, it is too early to make this decision. We have to look at the data and we will announce the decision next week. When answering a logical question of, “Are you open to delay?”, if you have not made a decision on whether to delay or not, by dint of logic, you are open to delay. That is, I think, a perfectly reasonable and logical answer to a question. It is an absolute classic: a politician answers a straight question with a straight answer and it causes all sorts of complications.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

We have seen in the past year unprecedented restrictions on our freedoms, for reasons that we in this place predominantly entirely understand—the pressure on our national health service and the escalating hospitalisations and death rates. Given the statistics that the Secretary of State has just published and the tremendous success of the vaccination programme in preventing hospitalisations of people doubly vaccinated, what additional freedoms are won for those people, and should we now be considering whether people who have been doubly vaccinated should be able to get additional freedoms as it appears that they will not be the cause of large numbers of hospitalisations in the future?

[Matt Hancock]

The hon. Gentleman is obviously a mentor of his former leader, Tony Blair, who made this case at the weekend. We are looking into this question for certain occasions. It will be necessary for international travel. However, in this country we have moved together—everyone is treated equally—in the same way that the virus treats us equally. I note that Israel, which did bring this proposal in, has now removed it.

Covid-19 Update

Toby Perkins Excerpts

Monday 17th May 2021 Commons Chamber

[Matt Hancock]

I am delighted that we managed to sort out the wrinkle that we had with the supplies of vaccine to Scunthorpe. It was a really good example of how this should work: my hon. Friend spoke up for Scunthorpe, and then the Minister got it fixed. I am very glad that we managed to sort that, and if there are any further problems, please do let me know.

We are inviting people who are over 50 and have a second jab booked 12 weeks after their first to rebook their vaccination from eight weeks after—not before eight weeks, because the effectiveness of the second jab strengthens for those first eight weeks. They can do that on the national booking system or through calling 119. We are texting those whose numbers we have to communicate with them. There is a whole process in place to get people rebooked wherever possible.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

People in Chesterfield are looking forward to getting back to the football stadium this weekend. I am not sure we will enjoy it quite as much as my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester South (Jonathan Ashworth) did this weekend; none the less, it is incredibly important to everyone. For that reason, they are understandably worried by the increase of the Indian variant, so it is important that we understand the decisions. I heard what the Health Secretary had to say about the reasons why he thought it was appropriate for India to be put on the list later than Pakistan and Bangladesh, but there will be those who think that the Prime Minister’s impending trip to India was a factor. We know there is an inquiry coming down the track. Will the Health Secretary confirm and clarify that there were no discussions, when the decision was made to put India on the red list later than Pakistan and Bangladesh, about the economic consequences, the Prime Minister’s trip or anything like that, and that it was purely health considerations that were in play?

[Matt Hancock]

These decisions are based on the evidence, and the Joint Biosecurity Centre puts forward the evidence for red-listing. In the first instance, the red list is there to stop new variants, but this variant was not a known variant under investigation. Because of the increase in the overall rates—the overall positivity—of people coming to this country, first from Pakistan and Bangladesh at the start of April, and then towards the end of April from India, we took the precautionary decision to put them on the red list. That is a matter of fact; I am happy to state that. The job now is to make sure we keep this all under control.