Points of Order

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 27th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

I will pursue this matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Justice, but it has always been the practice that where an answer would require disproportionate resources, an answer is not provided.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

The morning would not be complete without a point of order from the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty).

[Thomas Docherty]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Further to business questions earlier—obviously, we have not yet had a chance to see the official record—I think that I am right in saying that the Leader of the House appeared to indicate that you, Mr Speaker, had some discretion on whether the Member for Belfast West (Mr Adams) had resigned his seat by his new appointment. There clearly continues to be dissatisfaction with the whole process. What options are available to Members of the House to have a proper and thorough discussion of the whole sorry affair?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order. All I want and need to say is that the notification of the disqualification of a Member appears on page 641 of yesterday’s Votes and Proceedings. I have nothing further to add to my ruling yesterday, and there are no procedural issues within my discretion on which I can rule. Doubtless, these matters will continue to be discussed, but there are no issues to be decided now.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 27th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I will put that proposition to my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary, whose Bill it is. My hon. Friend will know that Westminster city council is taking action, which I am sure he welcomes, to remove the tents that are out there. I understand that notices have been served, and I hope that follow-up action will be taken by the courts, and if necessary by the police.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House is fully aware of the deep angst on both sides of the House about yesterday’s shambles over the resignation of the former Member for Belfast West. Will he ask the Northern Ireland Office to confirm what role, if any, it played in persuading the Chancellor to take the unprecedented steps that we saw yesterday?

[Sir George Young]

I reject the assertion that what happened yesterday was unprecedented. There are precedents for Members who write in to resign without specifically asking for Crown office to then be appointed, so what my right hon. Friend the Chancellor did was perfectly correct in delivering the hon. Member’s wish to resign, and he followed precedent.

Oral Answers to Questions

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Heath]

The Committee itself made it clear in its first special report that in determining what business should be taken, it would consider

“public petitions recently submitted to the House and petitions published on the Downing Street website—until such time as a system for electronic petitions to the House is implemented”.

We very much welcome the Committee’s continued interest in e-petitions as a source of debate, and we will work with it and with the Procedure Committee in making sure that we have a proper procedure for linking petitions to Parliament.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I am very surprised that the Deputy Leader of the House has not followed the Scottish Parliament system for public petitions, given that that has been widely praised both by his predecessor and by hon. Members on both sides of the House. Will he briefly outline why there is such a divergence between the 10-year-plus Scottish Parliament system and this system?

[Mr Heath]

I do not think that there is a huge divergence. We looked at the Scottish system and at whether it was applicable. The Procedure Committee, as the hon. Gentleman knows, has also looked at the issue. We have the Directgov site in place, and we are keen for people to be able to put petitions before the House at the earliest opportunity—and this provides the earliest opportunity. As I said, I hope we can get it up and running before the summer. If the Procedure Committee has further views on how the system could be changed in the future, we would certainly be open to its suggestions.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 20th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for the points that he makes. He asks for a debate on the Health and Social Care Bill, and he is getting one, as I have just announced, so all the issues that he has just raised can be dealt with then. We made a commitment, which his party did not, to spend more on the NHS, and we are reforming it to put more resources into front-line services. Against that background, the prospects for those on waiting lists or those concerned about waiting times are better under this Administration than they would have been had his party been elected.

The right hon. Gentleman asks for a debate on disability living allowance, and I recognise the concerns about that. He can have a debate about DLA: again, I announced that there would be a debate on an Opposition motion the week after next, so he can choose to debate DLA. I recognise the concern, but I hope he accepts that there are complicated issues. There are contractual obligations on certain care homes to make provision for some elements of mobility; some local authorities have requirements as part of their contracts with care homes to make provision for mobility; and people in residential homes are by and large sponsored by social services, but some are sponsored by the NHS, so different conditions apply. On the broader issue, we are consulting to see how the specific provisions on DLA will be introduced, and primary legislation will be necessary to make any changes to its mobility component.

Under the previous regime the Forestry Commission sold many thousands of acres without any requirements at all, but if the current proposals go through there will be specific requirements on those who acquire assets from the national forest to continue to make provision for access and other concerns—requirements that do not apply at the moment. So making transfers from the Forestry Commission to other owners will not have the adverse consequences that the right hon. Gentleman suggests.

We had an exchange on petitions that achieve a certain number of signatures, which my hon. Friend the Deputy Leader of the House answered. If the trigger is reached and a petition hits the 100,000 mark, it becomes eligible for a debate, and its future is then decided by the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), who is in her place.

I have a lot of sympathy with the right hon. Gentleman’s point about a topical slot for those Departments with 30-minute Question Times: the Department for International Development and, I think, those for Scotland and Wales.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

And Northern Ireland.

[Sir George Young]

And Northern Ireland. I take that point seriously, so I shall have discussions through the usual channels to see whether we can make some progress.

The women’s day debate is important. If the right hon. Gentleman looks at the Wright Committee’s recommendations, he will see that the issue falls to the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire and her Backbench Business Committee. He is perfectly entitled to go along at 4 pm or whenever it is to make a pitch for a debate on women’s day. It will certainly have my support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

I understand my right hon. Friend’s concern. The Police Reform and Social Responsibility Bill is going through the House at the moment, and I ask rhetorically whether it contains measures relating to alcohol which it would be relevant to discuss when it comes back to the House. In the meantime, I will pass on his request for an oral statement and encourage him to find some other opportunity to have a debate on this very serious matter.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

You will recall, Mr Speaker, that last week, further to a point raised by the hon. Member for Chippenham (Duncan Hames), I asked the Leader of the House about the failure of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs to notify the House about H1N1 outbreaks, but I am yet to receive a response. I am sure that it is on his desk, so could he send it over to me as soon as possible?

[Sir George Young]

I do recall our exchange last week, and my office did indeed contact DEFRA. I understand that DEFRA Ministers have responded to two of the hon. Gentleman’s questions on the issue this week. I am also informed that because the strain of H1N1 that was detected was of a low pathogenicity, it was not a notifiable disease, so there was no written statement. However, DEFRA Ministers are writing to him, and I hope he will receive the letter today or tomorrow.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 13th January 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

Some roads will be Highways Agency roads but others will be the responsibility of the county council. There is a debate this afternoon in Westminster Hall on the consequences of the comprehensive spending review on local government; my hon. Friend might have an opportunity to take part in that debate and raise her concerns with the relevant Minister.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

Yesterday morning, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs issued a press release notifying us for the first time that the H1N1 influenza virus had been found in poultry in the United Kingdom, but no announcement has been made to the House through either written or oral statement, and nor has the Select Committee on Environment, Food and Rural Affairs been notified of this very serious matter. Will the Leader of the House make urgent inquiries to find out why the Secretary of State for the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs does not respect the House?

[Sir George Young]

My right hon. Friend does respect the House, but I will ensure that the hon. Gentleman’s question is communicated to DEFRA immediately and that my right hon. Friend takes any appropriate action to keep the House in the picture.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 16th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

The answer to the first question is no; that was an operational matter for the police, and I did not have any say. My view is that it would be wrong to allow encampments in Parliament square, and the whole point of the clauses in the Bill is to restore the square to the position it was in when my hon. Friend first joined the House—namely, a square in the middle of an historical capital city surrounded by Westminster abbey, this building and other significant buildings—rather than being despoiled by a shanty town.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House on behalf of all Members for his support throughout the year on a number of issues. He will be aware of the great anxiety surrounding Tuesday’s pre-Adjournment debate, as it is fast approaching becoming a car crash. Will he now, even at this late stage, speak to the Backbench Business Committee to ensure that all Members get genuine answers from the Deputy Leader of the House in that debate, and that it does not become a shambles?

[Sir George Young]

At this moment, the hon. Gentleman is a lot closer, physically, to the Chairman of the Backbench Business Committee than I am, and she will have heard his question. What is proposed is a pilot, and the Committee is anxious to hear hon. Members’ views on the proposed format, which will give the Government more certainty about the issues that are being raised, and therefore a better opportunity to respond, although it is slightly less flexible. I very much hope that the Parliamentary Secretary, Office of the Leader of the House of Commons, my hon. Friend the Member for Somerton and Frome (Mr Heath), who will be replying to the debate, will have adequate time at the end of the debate to respond to all the issues that have been raised, but that will depend on discipline being exercised during the debate to give him adequate time to address the House at the end.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 9th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I am reluctant to be drawn into Scottish politics. I see no prospect of an early debate on the Met Office, but there will be an opportunity to question at the Dispatch Box the Ministers who have overall responsibility for it.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I welcome the opportunity to debate firearms on 20 December. The Leader of the House will be aware—I copied him in—that I wrote to the Home Secretary more than a fortnight ago to ask her to explain why almost 5,000 children have shotgun licences. I am yet to receive a reply, but I am sure that the House will think that one would be appropriate ahead of that debate. Will the Leader of the House urgently investigate that and ensure that the House is informed of the reasons why those children have shotguns?

[Sir George Young]

I understand that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary wrote to the hon. Gentleman yesterday to address his specific queries. I have a copy of the letter with me in case it has not reached him.

Business of the House (Thursday)

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Wednesday 8th December 2010 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn]

I agree completely with my hon. Friend. That raises this question: what are the Government worried about in that extra half hour? The truth is that they do not want to listen to any more arguments. Given the problems that they have faced over their handling of tuition fees and their broken promises, that is not surprising. However, it is outrageous—I use that word deliberately—that the Government propose to allow the House of Commons only a few hours to discuss and consider the most fundamental change to student support and the funding of higher education that we have ever seen in this country. It is also breathtakingly disrespectful.

For proof of that, we need only to consider the fact that the debate on this business motion can continue until any hour. In other words, the Government are prepared to spend more time debating the allocation of time than they are prepared to give the House of Commons actually to debate, discuss and vote on their proposals.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

My right hon. Friend might wish to know that I have been informed that the Government Chief Whip has told the dining room not to bother to put on any extra food tonight, because this debate will be over in an hour’s time.

[Hilary Benn]

I do not presume to comment on the powers of the Chief Whip to see the future, except to say that clearly, in view of the problems we had on Monday evening, his powers are not all they are cracked up to be. The truth, as you will know, Mr Speaker, is that the debate will go on for as long as it takes—it depends on how many right hon. and hon. Members seek to catch your eye.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

I do not think that that is the kind of injury time that the Standing Orders would cover. I am beginning to think that my time at university was somewhat sheltered in comparison to the revelations being made on the Floor of the House this evening. The hon. Member for Leeds North West is making the point that he does not think there has been enough time. He thinks that the proposal should be put to one side so that it can be properly considered.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

Earlier, the Leader of the House made the claim—I think it was simply a mistake on his part, rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead the House—that Members on this side of the House had had the opportunity to table amendments to the proceedings. Given that the motion was not taken last night, and appeared on the Order Paper only this morning, am I right in thinking that there has been no opportunity for us to table amendments?

[Hilary Benn]

What happened last night was certainly extremely unusual, and the Leader of the House did not seek to enlighten us this evening as to why the Government pulled the plug on their own proposal. Perhaps he anticipated the debate that we were going to have this evening, and the opposition to the motion that was going to be expressed on this side of the Chamber.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

I happen to have a copy of “Erskine May” and am very happy to lend it to my hon. Friend, as long as he gives it back to me, because I intend to quote from it a little later.

[Thomas Docherty]

I think I heard the Leader of the House correctly when he appeared to indicate earlier that the Government Front Bench might be prepared to restrict the amount of time they take when opening tomorrow’s debate. The concern that many Opposition Members will have, however, is not only that the Business Secretary will not have time to use his fancy footwork to explain exactly how he has made such a U-turn, but that Opposition Members will not have the opportunity to tease out of the Government exactly what their policies mean. It is simply unacceptable to use that substitute in order to avoid difficult questions.

[Hilary Benn]

My hon. Friend is, indeed, right. The Leader of the House could indicate now what self-denying ordinance or otherwise Ministers will adopt in order to give Members as much time as possible for debate. There is a fundamental problem, however, because Ministers want to say a lot on the matter, and they should rightly have that opportunity, but Members want to raise a lot of points, too, and we cannot fit it all into the five hours for which the motion provides.

--- Later in debate ---

[Hilary Benn]

It was a genuine inquiry, Mr Speaker, and I am extremely grateful to you for your guidance. When I read that section in “Erskine May”, I was genuinely concerned that Members might be denied the opportunity to have the full debate that we require tomorrow.

[Thomas Docherty]

Has my right hon. Friend noticed, as I have, the silence and lack of activity from Government Members? Is it his view that they agree with us that this is a horrible stitch-up by those on the Government Front Bench, or, as Government Members have suggested, do they also wish to contribute speeches tonight? Does my right hon. Friend look forward to many of them joining us over the next few hours, as we debate this important matter?

[Hilary Benn]

If we do hear this evening the voices of Government Members, I hope that they might persuade the Leader of the House to change his mind about the proposal that he wants us to vote for tonight. We have no intention of doing so.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

The point has been made that if everyone spoke, they would get about 50 seconds. I know that my hon. Friend speaks very eloquently and, on occasion, can go on at length, as we all can, but I am sure that he could get his remarks down to fit the timetable. However, the fundamental point tomorrow is that we will have five hours in which to discuss these vital points.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way. I do not wish to rain on his argument, but he is constantly referring to the five hours allowed. He might want to check the motion. If we have an urgent question or if business questions overrun—they are always popular thanks to the charm of the Leader of the House—we will have less than five hours to discuss this issue.

[Mr Jones]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for making that point. When the Leader of the House opened the debate, he gave an assurance that the Government would not make any statements tomorrow that would eat into the time. My hon. Friend makes a good point, though: issues might arise overnight to do with the weather in Scotland and other parts of the country, or to do with the demonstration tomorrow, or with something else. An urgent question might be sought and Mr Speaker might allow it. A statement might have to be brought forward. If that happens, that will eat into the five hours that we have been allocated.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jones]

I thank my hon. Friend, who makes a good point about the five-hour limit.

[Thomas Docherty]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am struggling to hear my hon. Friend because of the large number of conversations taking place on the other side of the Chamber. Is there anything you can do to ensure that I can hear my hon. Friend?

[Mr Speaker]

All Members, including those in the Chair, should exercise a self-denying ordinance in these matters. The hon. Gentleman is right to say that it would be good if the decibel level went down. [Interruption.] Order. Mr Ruane. [Interruption.] Order. Mr Roger Williams, you should not be chuntering away in a private conversation when I am trying to give a helpful ruling. It would help if the decibel level went down and we could hear the speeches.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Farrelly]

I do agree, and I have already said that we will not have time to discuss the ins and outs and the evidence base of the national scholarship fund. We are told that 18,000 to 20,000 students might be helped, but we have not been told where those figures come from.

[Thomas Docherty]

I do not know whether Members have had a chance to read the House of Commons Information Office’s excellent publication on statutory instruments, but I had a chance to pick up a copy yesterday. We will be discussing a statutory instrument tomorrow. My hon. Friend may be interested to know that in the House of Lords, determination of the time to be allocated to debate on statutory instruments is based on the number of speakers who have indicated that they wish to take part. Does my hon. Friend agree that, given that we will not have enough time tomorrow, the Procedure Committee of the House of Commons should consider again whether the system works for the purpose for which it is intended?

[Paul Farrelly]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

That, at the sitting on Thursday 9 December, the Speaker shall put the Questions necessary to dispose of proceedings on the Motion in the name of Secretary Vince Cable relating to Higher Education Higher Amount and, notwithstanding the provisions of Standing Order No. 16 (Proceedings under an Act or on European Union documents), on the Motion in the name of Secretary Vince Cable on the draft Higher Education (Basic Amount) (England) Regulations not later than five hours after the commencement of proceedings on the first motion, or at 5.30 pm, whichever is the earlier; such Questions shall include the Questions on any Amendments selected by the Speaker which may then be moved; proceedings may continue after the moment of interruption; and Standing Order No. 41A (Deferred divisions) shall not apply.

[Thomas Docherty]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am very disappointed that we were cut off in our prime this evening, but tomorrow we have important business questions and I very much appreciate that the Leader of the House is a star draw. Will you ensure that important issues are not curtailed tomorrow lunchtime thanks to the actions of the Government deputy Chief Whip?

[Mr Speaker]

The Chair always seeks to ensure that there is a good opportunity at business questions for right hon. and hon. Members to raise issues of concern to them. I know the hon. Gentleman would not expect me to say now for how long business questions will run. That would be wholly unreasonable of him, and he is not an unreasonable man, but I note what he says, I bear it in mind and I will make what I hope is a reasonable judgment in the circumstances at the time.

House of Commons Commission

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Wednesday 24th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Let me take this opportunity to thank the Deputy Leader of the House and the hon. Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) for what they have said by way of tribute to the hon. Member for Middlesbrough (Sir Stuart Bell). The contribution that he has made has been enormous; it is, and certainly should be, widely appreciated across the House. My understanding is that the hon. Gentleman has served on the Commission since 21 February 2000, so his service dates back well over 10 years, and it follows that he has sat on the Commission under three successive Speakers. I know of the seriousness with which he has taken his commitment to the Commission and the passion that he feels for the interests of the House as an institution and of individual Members. I know that the hon. Gentleman will appreciate the thanks expressed to him in the course of the debate on the motion.

Of course, I associate myself, as Speaker and as the person who chairs the Commission, with what the Deputy Leader of the House and the hon. Lady have said about the hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Mr Doran), who has a long-standing and respected track record of commitment to this institution and to the various Committees which are so vital to its effective functioning.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We have found out this evening, I think perhaps because of the events going on outside, that somebody who is currently under investigation by the House’s Standards and Privileges Committee has been awarded a parliamentary pass. Given that there are some very serious accusations and allegations, and indeed that this investigation is going on, would you perhaps talk to the Serjeant at Arms and report back to me, privately if it is not appropriate to do so in the House, to clarify whether it is appropriate for Members to have to share offices and corridors with somebody who is under investigation by one of our own Committees?

[Mr Speaker]

I note what the hon. Gentleman has said. The allocation of passes is not a matter ordinarily subject to comment or exchange on the Floor of the House. However, I am happy to acquaint myself with the detail of the issue that he has described and, if appropriate, I will revert to him. I hope that that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman and to the House.

Business of the House

Thomas Docherty Excerpts

Thursday 11th November 2010 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young]

I will raise that particular issue with the Secretary of State for Transport. I know from my own constituency that many market towns depend on such signs to advertise their attractions, and that there can be a marked fall-off in visitor traffic if they disappear. I will pursue the matter with my right hon. Friend and ask him to write to my hon. Friend.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

On 21 October I raised with the Leader of the House the issue of children having shotgun licences. I mentioned that statistics showed that 26 10-year-olds and 74 11-year-olds had such licences. The right hon. Gentleman promised that this would be fed into the forthcoming debate on shotgun licences and the report on the Cumbrian shootings. Can the Leader of the House tell us when we will have an opportunity to discuss this issue?

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for pursuing that issue. We have some of the toughest firearms laws in the world, but we are prepared to review and change them if necessary. What I said last time was that we need to await the report of the Home Affairs Select Committee, which is looking at firearms legislation. When we have that report, we will honour the commitment I gave before the summer recess and find Government time in which to debate our gun laws.