Oral Answers to Questions Debate

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Department: Home Office

Oral Answers to Questions

Baroness May of Maidenhead Excerpts
Monday 6th February 2012

(12 years, 9 months ago)

Commons Chamber
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Simon Hughes Portrait Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)
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5. When she last reviewed the operation of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1971.

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)
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After a thorough review of drugs policy, the coalition Government launched their new drug strategy in December 2010. The Misuse of Drugs Act provides a strong legislative framework, but we have further strengthened it through the introduction of temporary orders to allow us quickly to ban so-called “legal highs” as soon as they are developed and become dangerous. We continually consider evidence and advice from the Advisory Council on the Misuse of Drugs on the control of emerging drugs.

Simon Hughes Portrait Simon Hughes
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I am grateful for the Home Secretary’s personal interest in this issue. Many people outside Parliament, and from all parts of Parliament, still believe that our drugs laws are not working nearly as well as they should. Will she consider the view taken by my party’s conference last year, which was that an independent panel should be tasked with reviewing the Misuse of Drugs Act and reporting back to her, and there should be a subsequent debate in Parliament?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I thank my right hon. colleague for his interest in this issue. As he knows, we have already, as a coalition Government, put a considerable amount of work into our new drug strategy, and I suggest to him that we need to see how that strategy, once it is fully rolled out, is having an impact. Other measures that the Government are taking will also have an impact, such as the introduction of the National Crime Agency, which will strengthen our ability to deal with the organised criminal gangs that bring in the drugs that end up causing so much damage to people on our streets.

Jeremy Corbyn Portrait Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
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The Home Office has undertaken a study into the use of khat, and into whether to make it illegal or to retain its current status. Will the Secretary of State say what progress has been made on the consultations within the community, and if and when there are to be any proposals from her Department?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising that issue. The question of khat has caused concern to a number of people for some considerable time. I have asked the ACMD to consider the use of khat. It will conduct a study and expects to be able to report back to me and the Home Office later this year.

Julie Hilling Portrait Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
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6. What assessment she has made of the level of crime since May 2010.

Simon Danczuk Portrait Simon Danczuk (Rochdale) (Lab)
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9. What assessment she has made of the level of crime since May 2010.

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)
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Crime remains too high. That is why we are reforming the police, so that they are free from paperwork and free to fight crime. We have also set up the national crime mapping website, police.uk, which now provides the public with street-level information about crime and antisocial behaviour on a monthly basis, allowing them to access crime and policing information in a way that is helpful to them.

Julie Hilling Portrait Julie Hilling
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With a 10% increase in robbery with knives, is this the right time to cut 16,000 police officers?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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There is no simple link between the number of police officers and the level of crime. We can see that evidenced in the UK and elsewhere, with both police officer numbers and crime falling in a number of areas. I suggest to the hon. Lady that she might talk to the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee, her right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who last year said exactly this:

“We accept that there is no simple relationship between numbers of police officers and levels of crime.”

Simon Danczuk Portrait Simon Danczuk
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Crime in Rochdale is now higher than the national average on nearly every indicator. Will the Home Secretary explain to my constituents how cutting 16,000 police officers will help to reduce that difference?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I have just responded to the point about the relationship between numbers of police officers and levels of crime. I believe that the hon. Gentleman’s constituency comes under the Greater Manchester police force, and that force has made some transformations in how it copes with the budget cuts it has to deal with, with the result that 348 police officers have been released from support areas so that those individuals can be out in front-line roles. That is what it is about. It is about the deployment of officers, not the numbers.

Philip Hollobone Portrait Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)
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In the town of Kettering, from 2010 to 2011 overall crime has fallen by 4%, robbery by 11%, theft from motor vehicles by 20% and residential burglaries by 40%. Will the Home Secretary join me in welcoming those figures?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I do indeed welcome those figures, and I thank my hon. Friend for bringing them to the attention of the House. I also commend the local police and other local agencies that have been involved in ensuring that such a fall in crime can take place in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

Robert Halfon Portrait Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
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Following on from my hon. Friend the Member for Kettering (Mr Hollobone), is my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State aware that in Harlow crime has also fallen since 2010, with 87 fewer burglaries and 63 fewer cases of criminal damage, among many other figures? Does that not show that community-led policing with limited resources makes a difference? Will my right hon. Friend pay tribute to Essex police?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I am happy to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to Essex police, and to their work in his constituency and others covered by that force. We do indeed see the value of community-led policing, and that is why chief constables up and down the country are making every effort to ensure that they can get police officers out from back-office posts and on to the front line, where people want to see them.

Lord Hanson of Flint Portrait Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)
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The latest crime figures show that personal crimes of robbery, burglary and theft have gone up by 11% in the past year—the largest increase in more than a decade. Contrary to what the Home Secretary has just said, the independent inspectorate of policing has said that a 10% cut in police numbers will lead to a 3% increase in property crime. Quite frankly, the Home Secretary should be cutting crime, not police officers. Will she urgently revisit plans to cut 16,000 police from our streets?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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Well, really, I have to say to the right hon. Gentleman that he knows full well there is no direct link—there is no simple link—between crime and—

Chris Bryant Portrait Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
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Ooh, you slipped up there didn’t you?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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The Immigration Minister is getting very excited.

None Portrait Hon. Members
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He’s a shadow Minister.

John Bercow Portrait Mr Speaker
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Order. May I just explain that the deal for an Opposition Front Bencher of the hon. Gentleman’s important but middling rank is one question a month—not one question and multiple heckles? I know he is trying to reinvent the deal but the deal is as I have just described it.

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was going to say to the shadow Immigration Minister that he does, indeed, get excited very often about things that he need not get excited about. There is no simple and direct link between the number of officers and the level of crime. We see that in the UK and across the world. What Opposition Front Benchers need to focus on is the deployment of officers. They need to ask themselves why under the previous Labour Government so many officers were stuck in back-office posts in areas such as human resources instead of being out on the front line fighting crime.

Kevin Brennan Portrait Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
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11. What recent assessment she has made of the level of police morale.

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Jason McCartney Portrait Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)
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13. What progress she has made in tackling metal theft.

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)
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The Government take the growing problem of metal theft very seriously. Last week I announced legislative measures to the House that will significantly raise the penalties for rogue dealers and ban cash payments for scrap metal. These measures are part of a coherent package to tackle metal theft. We are strengthening the law, cracking down on rogue dealers and targeting the criminals who supply them, including through the funding of a £5 million national metal theft taskforce.

Jason McCartney Portrait Jason McCartney
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Last month I visited Schofield scrap metal merchants in Linthwaite in my constituency and heard that it, too, has been the victim of metal theft. What can my right hon. Friend say to reassure reputable scrap metal merchants that it will be the criminals who are punished, not the hard-working family businesses that play a key role in our economy?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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Indeed, reputable scrap metal dealers play a role in our economy, and everything we are doing is intended to bear down on the rogue scrap metal dealers who receive stolen goods rather than on reputable dealers. We are working with the British Metals Recycling Association and other industry representatives to ensure that the interests of the law-abiding businesses are reflected in the work we are doing.

Wayne David Portrait Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)
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Does the Home Secretary believe that the police should be allowed into scrap metal dealers in order to gain a comprehensive view of what is happening in them?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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We are looking at the whole issue of strengthening police enforcement, and one of the things we are doing is undertaking a number of exercises—an example has been seen in the north-east in recent weeks—where the police have strengthened their enforcement and gone into scrap metal dealers where they believe rogue dealing is taking place.

John Baron Portrait Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
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14. What plans she has to reduce administrative burdens on police forces.

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Kevin Brennan Portrait Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
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T1. If she will make a statement on her departmental responsibilities.

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait The Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mrs Theresa May)
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Today marks the 60th anniversary of Her Majesty the Queen’s accession to the throne. I am sure that the whole House would wish to join me in sending Her Majesty our best wishes and congratulations. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear!”] The diamond jubilee celebrations in June will be part of what promises to be an exciting year. They will be followed closely by the Olympic and Paralympic games. With less than six months to go until the Olympics, the Government remain committed to delivering a safe and secure games so that the whole country can celebrate and enjoy all these events.

Kevin Brennan Portrait Kevin Brennan
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As the son of someone who would have regarded himself as an Irish republican, may I associate myself with the Home Secretary’s remarks about Her Majesty the Queen’s remarkable achievements and long reign?

Earlier, the Home Secretary spoke about metal theft and the action that the Government are taking. All Members across the House have had examples of such theft in their constituencies. Why will she not support an amendment tonight in the House of Lords that would give police the authority to search and investigate all premises owned and operated by scrap metal dealers suspected of dealing in stolen property, as well as the power to close them down when criminally obtained metals are discovered?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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As the hon. Gentleman knows, we have announced a number of measures that we will take that will have a significant impact on metal theft. We are looking at further measures that might be needed. The most immediate impact will come not only from the increased fines, but from the removal of the ability to make cash payments for scrap metal.

Paul Maynard Portrait Paul Maynard (Blackpool North and Cleveleys) (Con)
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T5. Will my hon. Friend tell me how much will be saved by freezing police pay and whether the Opposition support those savings?

Yvette Cooper Portrait Yvette Cooper (Normanton, Pontefract and Castleford) (Lab)
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May I join the Home Secretary not only in congratulating, but in paying our tributes and respects to, Her Majesty the Queen on the 60th anniversary of her accession? The Home Secretary has talked a lot today about the deployment of police and about increasing the number of police officers on the front line. Will she tell the House what has happened to the number of police officers in front-line jobs since the general election?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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The shadow Home Secretary will know full well that Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary is making it clear that the proportion of officers on the front line has increased and will continue to increase. The question that she has to ask herself, given that she and her colleagues are now supporting the spending cuts that the Government have been putting through, is why they will not be clear to police officers and members of the public about the impact it will have.

Yvette Cooper Portrait Yvette Cooper
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The Home Secretary has ducked the question. I do not know whether she knows the answer. She will know that we are clear that there should be a 12% reduction in the policing budget, which would protect the number of police officers, not her 20% cut, which will mean 16,000 police officers being lost.

The Home Secretary needs to answer the question about the front line. I asked her about the number, not the proportion. The same HMIC report that she has been given includes data showing that the number of police officers in front-line jobs was cut by 4,000 in one year alone, following the general election. So will she now admit that her claims that she is protecting the front line are rubbish, and will she give the public a straight answer about protecting the police?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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The right hon. Lady said that the Opposition supported a 12% cut in police budgets. They also support the pay freeze and the savings available through the outcome of the police arbitration tribunal. They said that we should accept the recommendations on those matters. The shadow policing Minister has also indicated that a significant sum of money should be taken out of overtime and shift patterns. That all adds up to a commitment by Her Majesty’s Opposition to a 20% cut in police funding—the same position as the Government. Now let us get on with talking about things like deployment rather than about the right hon. Lady’s failure to be clear with people about her position on supporting police cuts.

Steve Brine Portrait Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
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T6. The Minister for Immigration will be pleased to know that UK Border Agency enforcement officers were active in my constituency shortly before Christmas, removing an illegal worker from one of our city centre restaurants and sending a clear message to business owners across Hampshire.I warmly welcome the Minister’s speech last week, especially his continued determination to raise the tone of the immigration debate. What new enforcement measures is the UKBA taking to stop illegal working?

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Philip Davies Portrait Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
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Is the Home Secretary aware that organisations using SmartWater have seen a huge reduction in the amount of metal theft? Does she agree that that kind of British forensic technology is essential not only to reduce the amount of metal theft, but to provide the police with the evidence they need to bring criminals to justice?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that contribution—he makes an extremely important and valid point. We are working with industry and others to see whether we can find other ways in which technology can help us to reduce metal theft by identifying metal and making it harder for the criminals.

Hazel Blears Portrait Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
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Today’s report from the Select Committee on Home Affairs on the roots of violent radicalisation highlights the twin threats from Islamist fundamentalism and the far right. Much of the most successful work has been done by the Hope Not Hate campaign, which empowers communities —the moderate majority—to isolate those extremists. Such community action is vital. Does the Home Secretary therefore share my concern at the delay in the publication of the integration strategy, for which we have been waiting for 11 months?

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Lord Cryer Portrait John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
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In the light of previous answers, what exactly is the relationship between police numbers and the level of crime?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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As we have made absolutely clear, there is no simple relationship between police numbers and the level of crime. The hon. Gentleman only has to look not only at UK examples, but across the world to see examples in which police numbers have gone up and crime has gone up, or police numbers have gone down and crime has gone down. There is no simple relationship.

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Amber Rudd Portrait Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)
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Today is international day of zero tolerance against female genital mutilation. What assessment has the Home Secretary made of progress against this violent and dreadful crime?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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Sadly, we see too many examples of this terrible crime continuing to take place. Most people would be shocked to know how many young girls in the UK are subjected to female genital mutilation. We need to redouble our efforts to ensure that we educate young girls about the prospect of being taken abroad and having this done to them, but we also need to ensure that we educate others so that they do not wish to do this terrible act.

James Clappison Portrait Mr James Clappison (Hertsmere) (Con)
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The Government are making good progress in reforming the immigration system. Perhaps that is evidenced by the fact that today the Opposition spokesperson on immigration has had something to say on absolutely everything except immigration. Will my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary keep under review the case for reforming intra-company transfers, given the level of graduate and youth unemployment?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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My hon. Friend makes a valid point about the attitude that is being taken by the Opposition. It is difficult to hear the shadow Minister say anything about immigration. My hon. Friend will also know that we are looking at all aspects of our immigration policy and keep them under review as we continue to move towards our commitment to bring net migration down to the tens of thousands.

Andrew Jones Portrait Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)
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Last week, North Yorkshire police announced a future Harrogate town centre co-location with Harrogate borough council to save costs. Is the Minister pleased to see such partnership initiatives and such cross-party support for saving money?

Lord Johnson of Marylebone Portrait Joseph Johnson (Orpington) (Con)
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Will my right hon. Friend give an update on recent progress she has made in reforming the Criminal Records Bureau status checks regime?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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I am happy to give an update. We are, of course, completely changing the way in which the Criminal Records Bureau, and the previous Independent Safeguarding Agency, operate. We are creating a new bureau that will ensure that those who need to be checked will be checked and, unlike under the previous Government, many people who are volunteers helping in their community will not have their records checked.

None Portrait Several hon. Members
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rose

Richard Graham Portrait Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)
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Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am delighted that the Government, the police and the Opposition have all accepted the police arbitration panel’s recommendations on the first Winsor report. My right hon. Friend knows how important it is for the morale of police in forces such as the Gloucester constabulary to see agreement reached on the second Winsor report. Does she see this as an encouraging precedent?

Baroness May of Maidenhead Portrait Mrs May
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We have yet to receive Tom Winsor’s second report on police pay, terms and conditions, but I would say that the process that we followed on the first report, which showed the importance of giving all parties the opportunity to make their contribution on the decision that was finally made, is one that we would expect to follow in future.