Assisted Dying (No. 2) Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Friday 11th September 2015 Commons Chamber

[Rob Marris]

My understanding is that five judges expressed grave concerns about a possible breach of article 8 of the convention.

The Supreme Court has indicated that Parliament should address this issue. We have a situation in which Directors of Public Prosecutions—principally, the previous DPP, my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer), who hopes to speak today—have felt it necessary to issue pages and pages of guidelines on when it would be in the public interest not to prosecute in possible cases of assisted death. It is time for Parliament to grasp the issue.

Social attitudes have changed in the past 50 years. As politicians, we all know not to rely too much on opinion polls. However, opinion polling of 10,000 people by Dignity in Dying, carried out independently by Populus, has suggested that there is extremely strong support for the kind of measure I am proposing.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Can my hon. Friend tell the House why he thinks that so many disability organisations and the British Medical Association are opposed to the Bill?

[Rob Marris]

Many disability organisations appear to think that this Bill has particular relevance to those with disabilities, but it does not. Disability is not an illness—it is rather old-fashioned to suggest that it is—and disability is certainly not a terminal illness. Despite repeated requests from its members, the British Medical Association has refused to debate this issue since 2012, and it has refused to poll its members. That is regrettable. In that context, The British Medical Journal editorial supports the Bill.

Dangerous Driving Offences (Sentencing)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 4th November 2014 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on securing this debate. We all agree on the importance of the review of sentences for driving offences. I am sure that like everyone else here, he would be grateful for clarity from the Minister on when that review will happen.

[Alok Sharma]

I am sure the Minister will address that point in detail.

I put on the record my thanks to the Reading Post and The Reading Chronicle for publicising the case and the petition. I also thank The Sun, which has done so nationally, and many others for helping to publicise the petition. So far, 25,000 people have signed. Both I and the families want to see a lot more signatures.

I do not believe that 10 years was a long enough sentence for what Walter did. The families affected do not believe that, and, so far, 25,000 people across our land do not, either. We have heard today that Members of Parliament representing many, many people across our country do not believe that that was right. I would like us all to sign the petition, which should influence the review, and to bring about a change in the law.

There are a number of specific things I want to hear from the Minister. I understand that he cannot predetermine the review. But does he understand the strength of feeling there is in the country about this issue and that Members of Parliament, members of the public and families who are affected by such tragedies want to put victims first? Does he have sympathy for the petition’s aims? The hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) talked about the ongoing review on all driving offences. How can members of the public influence the review? Will there be a public consultation?

I want justice for John and Kris, as do their families. Hon. Members want justice for the families of constituents who have been affected by this crime. When it comes to dangerous driving, the punishment must fit the crime. It is high time we had a change in the law.

Social Action, Responsibility and Heroism Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 21st July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sadiq Khan]

If the hon. Gentleman will be patient, I will come on to what the Justice Secretary should have done and pray in aid experts in that regard.

As I said, volunteering is going up, not down. If the health and safety culture is stifling volunteering, perhaps the Justice Secretary can explain the increase in volunteering. As I have said, there is no evidence to support the problem that he describes. There is no great health and safety beast suffocating the life out of those doing good deeds, petrified into inaction at the prospect of having to fork out compensation after being sued. Even if there was, the Bill provides no real substantive solutions anyway.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I think that many of us are of the view—I am a little surprised that this is not in the Bill—that certain volunteers, particularly in cave and mountain rescue organisations, and even the Royal National Lifeboat Institution, are put in situations that are probably far too difficult and dangerous. In certain situations, for example when people seem to make a specialism of going on to mountains when they know there will be bad weather, the Government should be doing more to protect those volunteers.

[Sadiq Khan]

If the Bill was really about social action, responsibility and heroism, those sorts of measures would be in it, but clearly it is not.

Let me remind the House of the conclusions of the Government’s own inquiry, which the Justice Secretary referred to, but not fully. Lord Young of Graffham, in his 2010 report, concluded:

“The problem of the compensation culture prevalent in society today is, however, one of perception rather than reality.”

There we have it, from the Government’s mouth: it is a perception, not a reality. The report goes on to highlight:

“One of the great misconceptions, often perpetuated by the media, is that we can be liable for the consequences of any voluntary acts”.

The report then refers to advice given to people in the winter of 2009 about not clearing snow from the front of their houses in case someone slipped and sued them. The Lord Chief Justice said that he had never come across someone being sued in those circumstances, yet the Justice Secretary has wilfully reported that old chestnut in articles he has written before today. I am happy to give way if he would like to intervene and list the occasions since 2010 when such incidents have occurred. No? Well, there we have it. His silence is telling, as he knows there are no such cases.

If the Justice Secretary’s point was that the threat of litigation is putting people off clearing snow, the Bill will do nothing to address that. In fact, the MOJ’s own statistics show that the total number of money claims in civil courts has been following a downward trend in recent years, rather than going up. In any case, the Bill deals with cases that have already reached the courts, so nothing in it will reduce the prospect of being sued. It will not reduce, as he describes it, the “stress and strain” if someone is sued.

Instead of preparing this Bill—the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner asked this question—the Secretary of State’s energies, and those of his officials, would have been better spent rebutting some of the myths about negligence and health and safety. That would have been a better way of tackling the fear of litigation, given that the likelihood of a negligence claim is pretty small. In fact, that was the advice of Lord Dyson, the Master of the Rolls. In a speech entitled “Compensation culture: Fact or fantasy?”, he argued that the perception of a compensation culture

“is not however as grounded in reality as had been suggested.”

He also suggested:

“All of this may also require a substantive educative effort on the part of government, the courts and the legal profession to counter-act the media-created perception that we are in the grips of a compensation culture. It may also require greater public legal education.”

Perhaps that education should have begun with the Justice Secretary.

I have already welcomed the Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims to his new post and congratulated him on his promotion. I am sorry that he is not here to share the joys of the Bill with his line manager, because in his previous job at the Department for Work and Pensions he understood exactly the importance of exploding myths about health and safety. In January, in answer to a question from my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) on health and safety, he said that

‘it is very important that health and safety is taken seriously in the workplace and in public areas. Right across the Christmas period, I went public about the need to ensure that Christmas was not spoiled by stupid comments, and stupid local authorities saying, ‘We shouldn’t do this or that’—throw snowballs, or have Christmas trees in certain areas—‘because of health and safety.’ That is wrong, and it has nothing to do with health and safety; it is an insurance risk.’—[Official Report, 13 January 2014; Vol. 573, c. 579.]

I hope that although the Minister is absent today he will be able to import some of his common sense into the current MOJ team. After all, as drafted, this Bill will not help. The Government are seeking to legislate to deal with how we perceive risk, real or otherwise. If he were serious, the Justice Secretary would tackle the misconceptions about the risk of being sued, but that is a trickier task that he has chosen to duck.

In introducing this Bill, the Justice Secretary said a lot about how it will protect the responsible employer. That prompts this question: where are the dozens of examples of courts having had a case before them where an employer has done the right thing and an employee has not, and yet they have found for the employee? There are no examples of such cases. He talked about members of the emergency services not going to someone’s rescue in case they breach health and safety rules. Will he tell the House what representations he has received from the fire, ambulance, police and coastguard services in support of that contention? Silence again.

I would like to pick up an important legal point. The Bill seems to conflate health and safety and negligence cases. The former are usually strict liability and the latter are not. That confuses civil liability with criminal liability.

Criminal Justice and Courts Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 17th June 2014 Commons Chamber

[Nick de Bois]

I am sorry, but I will not give way any more.

Our new clauses make clear to criminals, the public and victims our minimum expectation with regard to someone who goes out knowingly carrying a knife as a second offence. I believe that everyone should get a chance, but the patience of the public, this House and victims is being sorely tested by what is happening in our judicial system. Today, we can make a difference by supporting new clause 6.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I was not going to speak in this debate, but we have heard some powerful arguments. I support the new clause because we have made a distinction in law between crimes that involve guns and crimes that involve knives. I know that there are certain arguments for that—some will say that we were right to draw that distinction—but at the end of the day it makes precious little difference to families whether their teenage child is maimed by a gun or a knife. It is important that we reflect on the seriousness of crimes involving knives.

There is a specific liberal school of thought on the issue. I believe that many arguments could be made with greater force if new clause 6 related to a first offence with a knife, but that is not what it is about. A very important message is being sent.

From my personal experience as a councillor in Peckham, I know how seriously knife crime was viewed there. It concerns me that parts of the country that are many miles removed—culturally, economically and socially—from our inner cities now face crimes that 20 years ago would have been viewed as inner-city crimes. That is why it is important to send this message.

Those are some brief observations, but this is an important crime. This is not about not tokenism; it is about getting it right. If this country’s prison system is worth anything, we must also address rehabilitation so that the people who commit these crimes are put back on the right path. Let us not kid ourselves by arguing about abstract things. Knife crime is a cause of concern and I agree with the new clause.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Justice (Jeremy Wright)]

This group covers several issues, but let me start with the Government new clauses and amendments. New clause 44 creates a new offence of police corruption. Police officers ensure our safety in the Palace of Westminster, and they put their lives on the line every time they go out on patrol. Many police officers regularly serve the public bravely up and down the country, but as my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary said on 6 March, the findings of Mark Ellison’s review of the investigation of the murder of Stephen Lawrence are “profoundly shocking” and

“will be of grave concern to everyone in the House and beyond”.—[Official Report, 6 March 2014; Vol. 576, c. 1063.]

The public expect the police to act with honesty and integrity at all times, which is why the Government are introducing a range of measures to improve both the integrity and the transparency of the police. In the small number of cases where police officers fall short of the high standards we expect, it is right that the full force of the criminal law is available to punish and deter acts of corruption or other improper exercise of power.

Police corruption is currently dealt with in the criminal law as part of the common law offence of misconduct in public office. Although the number of prosecutions for misconduct in public office has increased in recent years, they have spanned a range of occupations, not just police officers. This Government believe that the British public expect on-duty police officers, as the guardians of the law and the Queen’s peace, to conduct themselves to a higher standard than other public servants. If police officers fail to conduct themselves to those high standards, it is right that we should seek to uphold that higher standard by means of the criminal law.

We believe that the best way to do that is to create a new offence of police corruption that applies solely to police officers, alongside the existing broader common law offence. The new offence will be triable only in the Crown court, and it will carry a maximum sentence of 14 years’ imprisonment. It will send a clear message that police corruption is serious, and that Parliament has expressly set a high maximum sentence for those convicted.

We have deliberately cast the behaviour covered by the new offence more broadly than the existing common law offence to ensure that it catches all acts of corrupt or other improper exercise of police powers and privileges. For example, were an officer deliberately to focus lines of inquiry away from a suspect with whom he had a corrupt relationship, such as by arresting a person they knew to be innocent, they would commit the offence. The offence applies whether or not the benefit or detriment came about, and regardless of whether the officer was on duty at the time of the corrupt behaviour. It covers cases where an officer fails to act for a purpose that is improper, such as if the officer knows that a suspect did not commit a crime, but conceals that knowledge because of an improper relationship with the person who committed it. It also applies where an officer threatens to act or not to act, and that threat is made for an improper purpose.

Amendments 45 and 46 are minor consequential amendments to the Bill’s extent and long title that arise from new clause 44.

New clauses 45 to 50 and new schedule 2 introduce new criminal offences of ill-treatment or wilful neglect by an individual care worker, and ill-treatment or wilful neglect of someone following a gross breach of a relevant duty of care by a care provider. The House will well remember the appalling events that occurred at Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust. Much work has been put in train since February last year, when Sir Robert Francis published the final report of the public inquiry into those events, including the establishment of several reviews into specific issues.

The inquiry on patient safety, led by Professor Don Berwick, identified a small but significant gap in the existing legislation. It recommended the creation of a new offence of ill-treatment or wilful neglect to fill that gap. Of course, no sort of ill-treatment or wilful neglect of patients or those receiving social care is ever acceptable. Yet at the moment, no matter how egregious the conduct, prosecutions are difficult to pursue unless the victim either lacks capacity, is subject to the provisions of the Mental Health Act 1983, or is a child to whom section 1 of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933 applies. That means that a significant group of patients and service users are denied the protection of an offence directed explicitly at ill-treatment or wilful neglect by those entrusted with their care, both individuals and organisations. There is a range of existing legislative and regulatory safeguards that may apply in some cases, but we share the view that they are not sufficient to cover all the situations that might arise from ill-treatment or wilful neglect.

Criminal Justice and Courts Bill

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 12th May 2014 Commons Chamber

[Jeremy Wright]

I entirely understand the right hon. Gentleman’s concern and I will come on to talk about the proposal we have for a wider review of sentencing in driving cases. He may well wish to make further submissions on the points he has made for inclusion in that review. A number of issues have already been raised which we think can sensibly be discussed in the course of that review, and I am sure there are some yet to be raised.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Can the Minister explain why being unlicensed was not included in this proposal? If one is unlicensed, one undoubtedly knows one is unlicensed, so why were such people taken out of this?

[Jeremy Wright]

I appreciate that this is a matter of judgment in all cases, but the distinction we have made is between those who have been disqualified by a court—in other words, they are subject to a court order—and have none the less gone on to drive, and those who are driving unlicensed, and, as the hon. Lady says, doing so knowingly, but not as a consequence of a court’s decision. That is the distinction we make, but I know she takes a considerable interest in driving offences and their consequences, and I am sure she will wish to engage with the review we will begin.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Huppert]

The hon. Gentleman is right: I have not been through all the court transcripts in that case. But it is not an isolated case. It is a similar story in literally hundreds of cases—we have heard some today and many others have been collected in various places. I am sure he is not trying to suggest that he would agree with the action taken in every one of those cases.

One problem—and having spoken with many people about this, I cannot see an easy resolution to it—is that juries are often not prepared to convict on offences that perhaps they should be. Prosecutors can have a tendency to low-ball the charge to ensure a conviction. I hope that the review will address that issue, because none of us want to see charges being brought that juries feel are simply too serious to convict.

[Susan Elan Jones]

Does the hon. Gentleman agree that we are also looking for a cultural change here? In the same way that the present generation does not talk about “having a drink for the road” as might have happened 30 or 40 years ago, we seek a cultural change in attitudes to the offences for which people should serve prison terms.

[Dr Huppert]

I think we have seen a cultural change. The sentencing aspect is a very small part of that, as I am sure the hon. Lady would agree. The success of the drink-driving law is not the number of people prosecuted: it is the number of people who do not drink and drive. We need a cultural change that suggests that dangerous behaviour, whether it is driving too fast or cutting people up, is simply not acceptable.

We are seeing other changes that are making driving safer, such as the introduction of 20 mph speed limits. That is happening very successfully in my constituency in Cambridge, where we are seeing some driver behaviour changes, but it is still early days. The changes will start to get across the idea that driving or travelling in any form of transport carries a risk of doing incredibly serious harm to other people.

Rural Crime

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 9th April 2014 Westminster Hall

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

It is a delight to serve under your chairmanship today, Mr Weir, for this important debate.

My constituency has a number of important industries, including paper making, brick making and pharmaceuticals, but it is also semi-rural, with an important farming industry. I want to highlight some of the worries about rural crime that people in my constituency have—in particular, my farming community and those who live in remote areas. First, however, I pay tribute to Kent police in general and my local officers in particular, who, within the constraints of continual pressure on their budgets, do what they can to protect those of us living in rural communities.

Do not get me wrong; I understand the need for the Government to bring down the deficit and know that the police force must do its bit to help. However, I want to see a rebalancing of how the Government grant is allocated, to ensure that rural areas and semi-rural areas such as my own receive a fairer share of the cake. That is the nub of our problem. We worry that, given the increasing pressure on police budgets, rural areas will continue to take second place in the allocation of resources.

The truth is that people in rural areas often feel that they are last in line for services: they sometimes have to put up with inferior roads; they often have no local school; they almost always have a poor internet connection; and they rarely have a police station. In short, they feel isolated, and that isolation increases their fear of crime.

A recent National Farmers Union survey showed that a quarter of rural crimes go unreported. Farmers take the view that reporting a crime is a waste of their time, in particular if that crime is considered by some other people as little more than a minor misdemeanour. The survey also showed that 50% of farmers said that the police failed to devote sufficient resources to tackling rural crime, while a further third felt that insufficient action was taken when crimes were reported. Some 38% of farmers have been victims of crime, including theft, arson, criminal damage, poaching and illegal fly-grazing. If 38% of people living in a city were victims of crime, it would be considered a crime blackspot. Why is such a high level of crime among farmers deemed acceptable in some quarters?

In Kent, it has been recognised that rural crime is a problem. Our police and crime commissioner, Ann Barnes, has pledged to improve rural policing with the use of mobile police stations. We welcome any initiative that highlights the problem of rural crime, but many are sceptical about the worth of mobile police stations and would prefer the money to be spent on boosting the number of police officers dedicated to tackling rural crime.

In Kent, we have only six rural partnership police officers to cover the whole county. Two of those officers cover not only my constituency, but an area that stretches from Thanet in the east of Kent to Dartford in its extreme north-west. Special police constables have been used to support the rural partnership officers, but my understanding is that those specials rarely have access to a police vehicle, so they have no means of patrolling the area in which they are supposed to be helping. Perhaps it would be better to spend the money used for mobile police stations on more rural community officers and the vehicles that they need to get around Kent more quickly.

Rural crime cost the UK an estimated £42.3 million in 2012. Organised gangs are increasingly targeting high-value tractors and other farm vehicles, stealing them to order and shipping them overseas. One of the frustrations felt by farmers is that there appears to be no recognition from the Government or senior police officers that rural crime is often closely linked to serious criminal activity, much of it across international borders.

In isolation, rural crimes appear to be one-off, unrelated events; in fact, they are often interrelated and funded by the activities of criminal gangs and terrorist organisations. For example, despite the best efforts of farmers to store their supplies of ammonium nitrate-based fertilisers in secure facilities, large amounts have been stolen. As hon. Members are probably aware, ammonium nitrate fertilisers are used to make home-made explosives and have been a component of some of the most devastating terrorist bomb blasts in the world.

Criminal gangs will steal anything that they can lay their hands on—from combine harvesters to quad bikes, from animal medicines to agricultural chemicals. One farmer in my constituency, who happens to be a good friend of mine, had a gate stolen from his field. Shortly afterwards, he installed a brand-new gate, which cost him several hundred pounds. The very next day, the second gate was stolen. That is rural crime. My farmer friend was pretty sure he knew who was responsible for stealing his gates, but he did not bother to contact the police, because he has no faith that they—or, more pertinently, the Crown Prosecution Service—would do anything. That, too, is a frustration for farmers.

Last year in my constituency, the police raided a farm that was believed to be owned by criminals—not farmers, I hasten to add. The police found 35 chassis removed from stolen Land Rovers, a stolen tractor unit and a 40-foot stolen trailer containing £50,000-worth of contraband alcohol smuggled in from the continent. They also recovered several thousand pounds in cash, diggers, fork-lifts trucks, quad bikes, car parts and drugs. All the goods were seized, but there were no convictions because the CPS felt it would be too difficult to prove that the occupiers of the farm were handling stolen goods.

Earlier this year, another serious incident in my constituency involved two women driving a Range Rover into another car, which they claimed had cut them up in traffic. The two women used their mobile phones to call their boyfriends, who arrived on the scene and beat up the driver of the car, hospitalising him. The police went to the Traveller site where the attackers lived and arrested two of the three suspects. At the same time, they discovered 200 fighting cocks, nine stolen dogs, a cock-fighting training wheel, drugs, several stolen cars and £50,000 in cash. The third suspect was traced to another Traveller site and was also arrested; at the same time, another £25,000 in cash was recovered.

Where do such large amounts of money come from? They are the proceeds of rural crime, including illegal betting on cock fighting and hare coursing, both of which activities see huge amounts of cash change hands. Hare coursing in particular is becoming an increasing problem. At this point, I will read from a letter that I received from the wife of a farmer in my constituency. It prompted me to apply for the debate. I have amended the letter slightly to protect the identity of the people concerned:

“Dear Sir,

The Isle of Sheppey has a population of over 36,000. During the summer this number is more than doubled. We have read in the local newspaper about yet another reorganisation, but the fact remains that police presence on the Island is inadequate.

On Saturday 2nd November 2013 we had cause to phone 999 as there were four men with dogs coursing hares on our farm. Only one patrol was available. No criticism is intended or implied of the individual officer, but he had no realistic chance of apprehending four experienced criminals who were playing ‘cat and mouse’. With assistance from my husband they were caught, but yet again have got away with it.

This incident was not an isolated one. There have been six incidents here since September 2013. We have witnessed them all and found numerous gates open on all six occasions. This is done deliberately so that the dogs have an unimpeded chase after the hares.

In 2012 we had twenty four incidents of this kind, all of which were reported. Some incidents were attended by the police and some were not. Of the twenty four incidents, arrests were made on only two occasions. In the first case the culprits received £250 fines and we are still waiting for the £15 victim cost.

In the second case the CPS abandoned the case only informing us the day before the hearing. This cost us money as we had already made arrangements for someone to care for our animals during our absence. The CPS claim there was insufficient evidence for the charge that was brought. Our view is that the case was dropped to save money. (It has been reported that the CPS drop 500 cases a week).

All this unsatisfactory state of affairs causes us much distress. We are not young and resilient like we used to be and we fear reprisals. My husband is in his seventies and not in the best of health. He has worked hard for twenty years in a government backed environmental scheme to improve wildlife on the farm. Now we suffer from people coursing hares—something it is illegal for us to do as owners of the property.

We are now in despair and have reached the stage where we may as well let these people have their fun without interruption.”

Let me read that last paragraph again:

“We are now in despair and have reached the stage where we may as well let these people have their fun without interruption.”

That is shocking, and it is why we must do something about spiralling rural crime.

Hares are in serious decline, despite being a key indicator species for conservation efforts funded by the EU through agricultural subsidies. The sad truth is that currently the only beneficiaries of the noble efforts by our farmers to conserve our hares are the criminals who are killing them as part of illegal gambling gangs who view the potential fines as an acceptable occupational hazard. If those who regularly attend hare coursing events attended 10 events and were arrested and caught at just one, resulting in a £250 fine, it would amount to £25 per event. Compared with the thousands of pounds that change hands through illegal gambling, £25 is nothing. If we are to protect people such as my constituents, farmers believe the fine for hare coursing should be increased substantially and I would like the Government to take that message on board. Hare coursing is rural crime.

Poaching is also a crime, yet there is evidence that criminals go out with dogs and snoop round farm buildings and fields in search of something to steal. If challenged, they admit to poaching because they are confident that the police regard poaching as a trivial matter and hardly a crime. We must make police officers who operate in rural locations understand that poaching is as serious as any other crime and often has links to more serious crimes.

In my constituency, three poachers recently killed 150 pheasants in one go. Those poachers ranged in age from 11 to 14 years. They were using an illegal, unregistered section 1 firearm—a .22 rifle. When it was recovered, there was a spent cartridge still in the breech and the individual carrying the rifle was found to have in his possession 200 rounds of illegally held .99 mm pistol ammunition and various other weapons. Those three boys were arrested again three weeks later after stealing a bicycle, and yet again shortly after that for breaking into a shed using tools from a robbery that had gone undetected.

The problem with poaching is that it is too often seen by the public, and sometimes the police, as being almost romantic—“one for the pot”—like boys scrumping. What they do not understand is that many poaching events are sponsored by criminal gangs operating from Traveller sites and pubs in Kent where competitions are held, again involving illegal gambling when the winner is the one with the highest number of dead animal heads.

Mike Bax, chairman of the crime rural advisory group that advises Kent police and the Kent police and crime commissioner on rural crime, gets over far better than I can the way in which poaching has wider implications than “just one for the pot”. He said that

“200 pheasants poached at the game dealers price of”

50p per head

“looks like a loss to the breeder of £100. However, it also probably means that a day’s legal shooting has to be cancelled with a gross loss of £6,000. 15 or 20 beaters lose a day’s work at £20 per head, the local pub loses the meal booking and possible accommodation booking. And other physical damage has probably been caused on the ground.

These multiplier effects on simple incidents illustrate the impact of even day to day rural crime with such events generally affecting the community at large rather than just an individual. Nevertheless, the events are so commonplace that the rural community consistently fails to report the original crime and somehow we have to change that mindset.

The police tackle the problem to the best of their ability, but they are thinly spread and intelligence is the key.”

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

I apologise for being a few minutes late for the hon. Gentleman’s debate. A problem in a rural part of my constituency has been people coming on to land pretending that they have hunting rights when in fact they are just there for criminality. What we found helpful, as the Minister will be aware, was that a group of local residents in Esclusham and Ponciau came together and worked on a digital mapping scheme so that land use was determined and put on that digital map. That is a good idea in such situations.

[Gordon Henderson]

I welcome the hon. Lady’s intervention. I have heard about digital mapping. All the ways of helping to solve crime are about intelligence-led policing, which is what I am talking about at the moment. Mike Bax continued:

“With thousands of people spread across the rural areas people must learn that it is not a failure if the police do not make an arrest. The very fact that the incident has been reported to the police provides them with intelligence.

Perhaps the identity of the vehicle, a description of the clothes the offender was wearing or a boot print in the mud, might well prove vital on another occasion.

Further more regular reporting by the community provides the police with information on crime patterns. Using that they can make predictions and be in the right place at the right time more often, thereby responding more effectively.”

That is intelligence-led policing, which is what we are talking about.

Intelligence gathering and digital mapping are fine, but dedicated rural police officers must act on that intelligence. Rural dwellers are being subjected to increasing levels of intimidation and violence. The National Farmers Union is aware of gamekeepers waking up to find their dustbins and pheasant feeders stuffed with dead birds as a warning. One gamekeeper was shot at with 1.5 ounce lead balls—any shooters here will know that that is pretty hefty shot—while driving. Another narrowly escaped serious injury when bringing his daughter back from school. Two men stepped out into the road in front of him and deliberately shot his windscreen out with similar sized lead balls. The point is that poaching is rural crime.

We then have livestock rustling, which is also becoming an increasing problem. It is estimated that 60,000 sheep were stolen in 2011 alone. The broader implications of livestock theft are very serious, because once animals are stolen, they are no longer tracked by the movement databases in place, increasing the risk of another foot-and-mouth epidemic. In addition, meat entering the food chain through livestock theft cannot be traced from farm to fork and it may be subject to unhygienic slaughterhouse conditions and contamination that risks human health.

Rural Crime (Mapping Scheme)

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 5th March 2014 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Bone.

Those of us who represent rural and semi-rural constituencies face something of a paradox. We rightly want to promote their natural beauty, what seems like a timeless way of life, and the strong sense of community, but we must not shy away from the other side of the coin. What sometimes appears when we flip over to the darker side of the coin is poverty, social deprivation and sometimes isolation, poor transport and, as I will discuss today, rural crime. Rural crime is undoubtedly a very dark side of the coin, and it is made even darker, as the Countryside Alliance rightly pointed out in its manifesto for the police and crime commissioner elections, by the fact that the police face large cuts while being expected to provide the same levels of service.

Rural crime is unquestionably a negative aspect of rural life, but I come to the debate with a sense of optimism born of the story of the Esclusham and Ponciau strategic community-assisted mapping pilot scheme, which for the purposes of the debate I will refer to simply as the mapping scheme. It is the story of how a few communities came together and produced what I believe to be a unique programme to tackle rural crime. I hope that the Minister will allow me and the people involved in the scheme to be even more optimistic, and will agree to investigate the roll-out of the programme in rural communities across England and Wales.

In this country, there are a number of examples of local success stories being transformed into national programmes to tackle the menace of crime, and in the United States, a fledgling community safety scheme of the 1960s called Neighbourhood Watch was adopted nationwide in 1972 by the National Sheriffs Association; it was adopted in our country fairly soon after that. An excellent initiative of my party’s in government was the role of the police community support officer, which was first introduced throughout the country in 2003. That idea came from south-west England, but the value and impact of the programme, which totally revolutionised community policing in this country, is now felt nationwide.

In case the Minister is worried that I have not yet mentioned the coalition parties, a Conservative Home Secretary, albeit one from a little while back, Sir Robert Peel, established the Metropolitan Police Service for London in 1829. That creation proved so successful in cutting crime that in 1857 all cities throughout the country were obliged to have a police force; the idea went from local to national. The Esclusham and Ponciau strategic community-assisted mapping pilot scheme is worthy of being rolled out nationally.

Only a couple of miles from the centre of Wrexham, one is in the heart of the countryside, much of which is beautiful. In addition to the scenery and the fresh air, however, local farmers, residents and the police were finding something else—something that was happening far too often. I am referring to a specific set of unwanted crime-related problems, which included the theft of farm machinery, fly-tipping, illegal hunting or lamping, car crime, including the burning of stolen cars, and thefts from outbuildings, sheds and gardens. The local police realised from the outset that it was vital to have the support of local residents in tackling these and other related crimes. I cannot praise highly enough those residents in Esclusham and Ponciau who battled away and organised with much-needed ferocity to tackle the problems head-on.

How did the project come about? Local residents and the police recognised the police’s lack of rural knowledge. Let me make it clear that I am strongly of the view that our local police officers and PCSOs are outstanding, especially given their financial constraints, but they faced an awareness that not even thousands of rural versions of the characters from “Inspector Morse”, “Bergerac”, “Kojak” and “The Bill” all rolled into one could have possibly dealt with the situation on their own without the collective knowledge of the local communities.

To start with, we are talking about an area too large geographically for visible policing. Then, to take the example of hunting rights on a plot of land, in many cases it is simply unknown whether such rights exist. There were instances of people who claimed to be lampers making bogus claims about a right to hunt. They were not bona fide hunters, because no such rights existed, and in many cases they were not even any sort of hunters at all. They were finding an excuse to be on land, in the dark, that they had absolutely no right to be on so that they could commit theft or other crimes. The situation was made worse by the fact that there were inevitably delays in tracing landowners when there were incidents.

A new programme was needed to deal with the situation. The ideas formulated came from local residents, councillors, PCSOs and the police at monthly community police meetings at the Aberoer Institute. It is fair to say that the mapping scheme was able to develop because the area in question already had a Farmwatch and OWL—Online Watch Link—alert system, through which members can contact police with information or be warned if thieves are about. OWL is used by North Wales police and local co-ordinators to build and communicate with thousands of other watch schemes.

The mapping scheme in my area was developed to support our local policing team in cutting rural crime incidents. It is run by members of the local community, and information about key areas is compiled on one central digital map. The map includes details specific to local areas, such as information about land ownership, permissions for hunting, where household closed circuit television is installed, livestock and public footpaths. Contact is made with residents throughout the area, some of whom live in scattered communities and on farms. Residents are encouraged to complete an information form—in fact, they need to do so in order to participate. They give information about their land, state what they know about other land, say whether they have household CCTV, and give details about hunting rights, land ownership, livestock, public footpaths and more. The information collected is put on a digital map, which is issued to the North Wales policing team on tablet computers. With that equipment, police officers may open the map, which is fully compliant with data protection laws. Details are constantly updated, and that is integral to the success of the project. An updated map is issued monthly on the tablet devices.

I draw the Minister’s attention to the fact that the mapping scheme has resulted in a major resource to assist rural policing teams. The data device at the heart of the project has provided police officers with information on demand—things such as a contact name and telephone number when they are dealing with an incident. This has proved extremely effective when officers need to ascertain local land ownership in order to get in touch with the owners of the land. The scheme has already proved useful when animals have been reported loose on the public highway and the police have needed to ascertain the name and telephone number of the animals’ owner. Details on hunting rights are also provided, so the project has enabled police officers to check up on lampers, real and imagined, and to stop certain individuals who have claimed that they were rabbiting. Officers confirm that no lamping permissions are in place and then move the individuals from an area. That happens quite frequently.

The programme is also able to orientate police officers and give specific geographic details about rural areas. The resource might be used, for example, to locate a reservoir. The project can provide potential back-up intelligence from available CCTV coverage. To clarify, the mapping resource has a number of household cameras highlighted, and officers have used that information to view CCTV data on several occasions.

The mapping resource has proved extremely useful in many incidents, and although, understandably, it is not always possible to link the pilot scheme directly to a successful outcome on a specific crime, it has undoubtedly assisted the policing team, at least indirectly, with rural crime incidents. Indeed, some situations have not involved an actual crime, but have been ones in which reassurance or intelligence gathering has been required. That too is, of course, vital.

Since its inception, two police officers have been piloting the mapping scheme. On average, the resource is referred to two to three times per week. It is highly significant that crime in the rural area implementing the programme is in decline. One sage community member, who has taken a leading role in the project, rightly makes this point:

“Word has got out, and many offenders and potential offenders now get the message that we know more about the area than they do!”

As anyone who has had the misfortune of dealing with any element of the criminal fraternity in rural Britain will know, that in itself is no mean feat.

One local farmer who is very involved in running the programme made this point:

“If there is theft of farm machinery, sheep worrying or a breach in a livestock boundary, it will help the attending police team to have immediate access to know who the field belongs to.”

Another local resident observed:

“The aim is a police officer or PCSO attending a rural crime will have this tablet to hand making it quicker to orientate themselves to the outlying rural areas and giving them immediate access to data.”

Meanwhile, a local PCSO has described how much local PCSOs and the police have welcomed the project and the approach of the local residents who have worked collaboratively with them on it. In the PCSO’s own words,

“They have a ‘can do’ attitude which has led to this great development, and it is important that we have as much information as possible, and as quickly as possible”.

The team that runs the programme continues to develop the scheme by introducing their objectives at monthly community police meetings, and by visits to rural households and farms to promote the system and sign up residents to the pilot scheme.

Although I am delighted to have the opportunity to share the success story of the Esclusham and Ponciau strategic community-assisted mapping pilot scheme with the House and the Minister, my purpose in this debate is not merely to provide a good story. I would like to ask the Minister three specific questions. First, will he agree to meet representatives of the scheme? Secondly, will he investigate the feasibility of rolling out the programme across England and Wales, and then report back to the House? Finally, will he investigate new funding streams within his Department to support community programmes that help to tackle rural crime? I look forward to hearing his response.

[The Minister for Policing, Criminal Justice and Victims (Damian Green)]

It is always a pleasure to serve under you, Mr Bone. I congratulate not only the hon. Member for Clwyd South (Susan Elan Jones) on introducing the House to what she rightly describes as a good news story, but the residents in Esclusham and Ponciau who developed the mapping scheme.

Like the hon. Lady, I represent a semi-rural constituency, so I know all about the tensions between the policing of rural and urban areas; people in each area feel that those in the other area get more than their fair share of the cake. It is always difficult for police forces to decide where to point their efforts. However, it is obvious that in rural areas local information such as land ownership and livestock details can be important to police attending incidents. I pay tribute to the hon. Lady’s constituents for gathering the information to provide the digital map that she described, which will help North Wales police tackle rural crime in the area. The other key element to the scheme is that the information can be accessed via a tablet, helping the police to get the information while they are out on the ground. That keeps police on the street—perhaps in this case, in the field, but certainly out of the station—for longer than would otherwise be the case.

The hon. Lady rightly laid great stress on what wider applicability there can be for this type of local initiative. The answer is, “a great deal.” As I set out in a speech to police and crime commissioners in January, and again at a recent conference we held for digital pathfinder police forces, one of the biggest opportunities for the police to improve the service that they give the public is through embracing new technology. It allows the police to address not only the challenges posed by rural crime, but new emerging threats.

I will talk about the wider national scene first. Clearly, technology of the type the hon. Lady has described is shifting people’s behaviour and expectations of public services. Policing is responding to that, as the example of the mapping scheme shows, but the question that I pose regularly to those running individual forces and to PCCs is whether we are responding fast enough. Technology will be a significant key to the police continuing to cut crime in the future, and the intelligence input from the local community will continue to be vital in ensuring that technology is a success.

The hon. Lady referred to Sir Robert Peel; his famous dictum was:

“The police are the public and the public are the police.”

Part of that is an instinctive daily—hourly, if necessary—information flow between the police and the public. Technology makes that much easier than it ever has been, not just through social media but by various other means. The capacity of an informed, intelligent and helpful citizen to tell the police that something is going on somewhere where we could not remotely expect a police officer to be at that moment is greater than ever before.

The other side to that is that officers should have access to information while out on the streets, so that they can make quick decisions and avoid having to go back to the station to fill in forms or access IT systems. In a world of apps that allow people to book a taxi, find out when the bus is coming and do their banking on a smartphone, online police services and information should become business as usual. All forces now provide information via their website and Twitter; nearly all forces provide information via Facebook, and two thirds do so via YouTube. The public can contact individual officers or specific neighbourhood teams in many forces directly.

It is disappointing, however, that people cannot routinely do relatively basic things, such as reporting individual crimes, online. There are exceptions. Sussex police force allows the public to report crime online, and in Avon and Somerset, victims of reported crimes can track the progress of the police investigation online. I would like to see that spread across all forces.

We want to be ambitious, not simply doing old things with new tools but harnessing the potential of technology to bring about transformational change. That is what digital policing is about. Many forces are serious about digitisation, and I am delighted that 32 forces have signed up to be digital pathfinders. The College of Policing digital pathfinder programme is about bringing together forces that are serious about forging a digital path to share innovative ideas and identify collaboration opportunities. The programme will identify what a fully digital force will look like, highlighting how technology can improve the public experience of dealing with the police, and how officers can be more efficient and effective while out on the beat and can streamline processes to link up with their criminal justice partners. I hope that North Wales police will consider becoming a digital pathfinder, building on the innovation the debate today has highlighted. I am sure that the hon. Lady will want to challenge her local force and PCC on this matter.

One of the hon. Lady’s questions was about funding. She may be aware of the Home Office innovation fund. Recently we allocated over £11 million to IT projects from the 2013-14 precursor police innovation fund. There will be another round of allocations next year, for which the fund will be two and a half times the size. Much of that money is used on precisely the type of development in IT that she has described today.

For example, Avon and Somerset will use the funding to set up a citizen portal, which will allow the public to report and track non-emergency crimes. Cambridgeshire, Bedfordshire and Hertfordshire were successful in their joint bid to support their work to build innovation in IT into their end-to-end business transformation project to make all possible processes digital. South Wales is using global positioning system technology linked to police data to provide officers with relevant information and intelligence about the area they are in, or a person they encounter. Building on that money, the police innovation fund will have £50 million available next year to support further innovation, including digital projects.

The Home Office has recently awarded a contract for the provision of evidence-based decision support, a service that will enable the right team of experts from industry, small and medium-sized enterprises and academia to be assembled to focus on the customer’s specific problems before making critical decisions. It will ensure that transformation programmes are fully sighted on the latest technical innovations. By using the service, forces can be confident that they are investing in the right things and not just the latest gadgets. Those things combine to provide an opportunity for forces to bring about real, transformational change.

The hon. Lady was right to praise the innovative work that the PCSO did in partnership with her local community in developing the system in Esclusham and Ponciau. PCSOs have played a huge part in providing effective neighbourhood policing, and they are a highly visible presence in communities. As that work shows, PCSOs have proved an invaluable link between the police and the communities that they serve by understanding and identifying local priorities, solving local problems and low-level crime, and engaging with the community. That is even more important in rural areas, which, as the hon. Lady knows, can present different challenges because of their size and the remoteness of their communities.

Lasting success in tackling rural crime will lie in local police and communities having a tailored joint response to the problems that they face, as we have seen in the partnership in north Wales. Although crime rates in rural areas tend to be relatively low, it is right that rural communities can know what crime looks like in their area and can hold somebody to account for doing something about it.

We provide the public with local information about crime and what the police have done in response to it. That information is regularly updated, so the public are able to hold local forces to account. Police.uk, the national crime and policing portal, provides rural communities with local information about crime and antisocial behaviour. Police.uk information is presented clearly and concisely, which enables the public to access crime and policing information in a way that is useful to them. The number of hits on police.uk since it was set up is evidence of how useful people find it.

We have shifted power to local communities through locally elected police and crime commissioners, who ensure that the public have a stronger voice in determining local policing priorities. A national rural crime network has been set up to tackle countryside crime, and it has been endorsed by 18 police and crime commissioners. It is good that PCCs in rural areas are coming together to discuss issues of mutual concern, and, as with the system that the hon. Lady spoke about, to spread best practice. As she rightly said, local initiatives can turn into national or international initiatives, which need to start somewhere.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I am grateful to the Minister for much of what he said. May I gently turn him to my question about whether he will meet with my constituents who are involved in the programme?

[Damian Green]

I was saving that for the end. I promise the hon. Lady that I will get there.

The rural crime network includes organisations dedicated to rural communities, which will be able to learn from one another and work collaboratively on new ideas and solutions that will benefit local people. Several PCCs have prioritised rural crime, which shows concretely that rural communities are able to have an effective say. In North Wales, the PCC has put in place a rural crime plan to engage with the rural community and address their concerns, including theft from rural areas of equipment and livestock. The force is providing a presence at farmers’ markets and agricultural events, and a rural crime team, comprising four full-time police constables and a sergeant, has been created.

Such schemes are not restricted to Wales. In Suffolk, the PCC has introduced a dedicated team of special constables to work with safer neighbourhoods teams to tackle offenders who target farms and rural communities, and rural crime police officers who will focus on hare coursing. The PCC in Thames Valley, Anthony Stansfeld, has also prioritised rural crime, and has introduced the “Country Watch” messaging system. So far, more than 7,500 people have signed up to the system to receive crime alerts and witness appeals, to see galleries of wanted criminals or suspects, and to receive information on community groups, events or meetings and details of operational work, by e-mail, text or telephone. Those examples from around the country illustrate that there is welcome new thinking and activity in the hon. Lady’s constituency and other parts of the country to deal with the problems that rural crime creates, and to enable police forces around the country to become more effective in stamping it out.

The hon. Lady asked whether I will meet her constituents. Of course I will; I am happy to do so. As I said, spreading best practice is an effective way of ensuring that good ideas have benefits beyond the local communities in which they were created. I hope that other communities will be inspired by the initiative that she spoke about and some of the others that I have mentioned. Rural crime is one the key examples where the use of new technology can, and will, transform policing, so that we deliver a better, more efficient service to the public. I hope that the good idea in the hon. Lady’s constituency will bring benefits to not only her constituents but many others around the country.

Police

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Commons Chamber

[Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

It is a great pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert). It is fair to say that we do not always see eye to eye on a range of issues, but it is always interesting to listen to his point of view, which is always well backed up by a scientific approach that he embraces—I find it very useful indeed.

I rarely speak in the House at length on policing issues, partly because I spent three years as police Minister and I do not think that reprising my experience is terribly helpful for Members in that same role. Today, however, I have made an exception, because I am becoming increasingly worried about the direction of travel of our police service. Part of my concern is about finance, but many of my concerns are about the stresses and strains on neighbourhood policing. This is not particularly about my introducing neighbourhood policing; this is about neighbourhood policing being such a fundamental change to the way in which we did policing in this country. I say to my right hon. Friend the Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), the Chairman of the Home Affairs Committee that there was reform during our period of government, and neighbourhood policing was the biggest bit of reform that we introduced. It is now established not only in this country—for all time, I hope—but increasingly in other European countries and countries across the world, where it is recognised that sustainable policing must be done with people, not to them. It must be done with consent, gathering the community around who then become the eyes and ears of the police. Much more intelligence is obtained that way, and the police become far more effective in fighting crime.

Convincing the police service that neighbourhood policing was not a fuzzy, warm community development project but a hard-headed reform to make the police service more effective was quite a job in changing culture. I well remember that when I started talking to chief constables about neighbourhood policing and how we needed to build relationships—to get to know the head teacher, the shopkeepers, the children and the people in the community—some of them looked at me as though I was from Relate marriage guidance, talking to them about relationships. When I hear our shadow Minister talking in the House today about the need to have relationships, it shows how far we have moved on police culture—recognising that relationships are often far more useful than the traditional tools of policing.

I am speaking in this debate because I am very concerned about what is happening to our police service. Greater Manchester’s force has had a fantastic record over the past 10 to 15 years, but we are now seeing cuts totalling about £135 million over the five-year period between 2011 to 2015, and already 1,000 police officers have had to go. Sir Peter Fahy, who is a very respected chief constable, just as he was when he was at Cheshire during my time as Minister, and who is scrupulously non-partisan and non-political, has said:

“When I took the post the force had 8,200 officers and it is now just below 7,000. We are now on our way to 6,400—and that’s incredibly painful.”

Sir Peter Fahy is not a man to cry wolf and everyone in the House should take notice when he says that this process is incredibly painful.

It is fair to say that crime, antisocial behaviour, drugs and family breakdown were the scourge of our community of Salford and Eccles 15 years ago. It was incredibly difficult to attract business and investment to the city because of the huge amount of crime that was going on. People did not feel that the police were in control of the neighbourhoods; they felt that the criminal gangs were in control of the neighbourhoods in my city. That caused massive unemployment and a huge amount of family disintegration. Some 15 years ago my city was in a terrible state, but the fact that we have a grip of crime is the most fundamental reason why it has become a much better place to live. It is why we have been able to attract investment, such as the MediaCityUK—home to the BBC and ITV—and the regeneration programmes we have seen happen. It is one of the reasons why we had, until recently, the fastest falling level of youth unemployment in the whole north-west and why we get £200 million from visitors to Salford—who would ever have thought that it would be a tourist destination, with people wanting to come to our city? It is also why we have more people employed in the MediaCityUK area than we had when it was at its height as a docks.

Those are amazing transformations. Probably the single biggest issue was getting a grip of crime, making people feel safe in their homes, and tackling drugs and some of the serious and organised crime gangs that we had in Salford. We have been incredibly successful. Yes, the figures over the past three years have continued to be good on some of those crimes, but they are not as good as they were on burglary—we saw burglary go down by 54%—and some of the other crimes.

I saw a worrying statistic from Greater Manchester police this week which showed that antisocial behaviour has started to creep back up. Antisocial behaviour, before it was even defined by the previous Labour Government, was sometimes dismissed as petty or low-level crime—the sort of crime that we almost have to accept if we live in an inner-city environment. We had a massive drive to tackle antisocial behaviour, with a whole new set of powers and the Respect campaign. We said that we wanted to be on the side of decent people in communities and to drive out the antisocial behaviour that made people’s lives such a misery. There was long-term harassment and really serious crime, which could not be dismissed as low-level incidents.

Huge warning bells ring for me when I see a statistic that shows that that sort of crime is now beginning to break through again. I look at some of the evidence around the statistics, the veracity of which people are beginning to question. Lord Stevens has said that we could be on a tipping point for another rise in crime. If we start to see crime rise again in places such as Salford and Eccles, all of that good work over the past 10 to 15 years will be at risk. The business investment will be at risk. People will feel that it is not the kind of community in which they want to live. I am absolutely determined not to say that we need more money. I have no doubt that the hon. Member for Cambridge (Dr Huppert) will ask me the same question he asked my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey). Yes, money is tight, and that means that hard decisions must be made. I would have supported a 12% cut, not a 20% cut, but we could argue that for the whole afternoon. There were things we could have done through collaboration and better procurement. Those were all on our agenda for making those cuts. In hard times, we have to use creativity, innovation and imagination. I am afraid that I am not seeing enough of that in the present Government’s approach.

When I was Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, I used to say to local government that, in order to face the coming years of austerity, we would have to have community budgets and a Total Place organisation in which all the public sector pooled its budgets, rationalised its inspection regimes, shared the same targets and had a system whereby all that public money, whether it was for policing, regeneration or whatever, was in the same pot. We thought that that was the way to survive these years of austerity without having an absolutely disastrous effect on our public services. We said that to local government, and if I get a chance in the next debate, I will reinforce these matters for the Secretary of State.

Local government has stepped up to the plate. The 10 authorities in the Association of Greater Manchester Authorities have a community budget; they are pooling resources. The police in my area have co-location with the local authority, the health service and mental health. We have a system of sharing information, which is the multi-agency system for data sharing. It is in that way that we have been able to survive some of the tremendous cuts.

The Minister will know about Operation Gulf in Salford, which has been going on for three years. It tackles the serious crime gangs—there are at least 32 of them—and it has had amazing success. It has won the Home Office national award for an operation over the past two years. Much to my delight it has put some serious criminals behind bars for a good number of years, and it has done that because it has used smart policing, imagination and creativity. It has taken the Al Capone approach: if we cannot get the criminals on the particular crime we want them for, we can get them on money laundering, employing illegal immigrants and not having tax on their cars. The police can be in their face every single day of the week, and that is the way we get results. They have been able to do that because they have had co-operation from Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, the local authority, the Department for Work and Pensions, the mental health services and every other bit of the system. That is the kind of creativity that is required now and over the next few years. It would mean central Government saying to local government, “Get your act together. Pool your resources. Get yourself in shape. Line yourself up. Have a strategic objective, and that is how you make an impact.”

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is fascinating to listen to my right hon. Friend speak on this subject. When we talk about how to provide policing at a time of great cuts, we must also consider the creativity that will be necessary in rural areas. Does she agree that rural police forces will need to get together and think creatively?

[Hazel Blears]

I do indeed. Part of the challenge facing police services is the need to deliver in many different environments and circumstances. We must consider sparsity and the difficulty of travel. In more rural areas, for example, the need for technology and communications is perhaps even greater than it is in concentrated inner-city areas. Again, creativity in the use of technology is really important.

In Greater Manchester we now have this top-slice application to the innovation fund. The chief constable is working on redesigning Greater Manchester police to see how we can get through the next few years, and I absolutely support him in that. In the process, he has taken one of my superintendents, Wayne Miller, off my Salford beat. I wish Wayne well in his new role in that change project. I want to place on the record the fact that he has been a tremendous superintendent. He brings with him real hands-on experience of neighbourhood and community policing and will make a great contribution to the plans for the future.

My chief superintendent, Kevin Mulligan, has recently retired. He was the architect of Operation Gulf. He is a fantastic, hands-on police officer who has done a tremendous job. He has made several arrests on his own and goes out policing on new year’s eve and Christmas eve—that is the kind of dedicated officer he is.

I spent a good period of time with our new chief superintendent last Friday. Chief Superintendent Mary Doyle is an incredibly impressive woman in Greater Manchester police. I have no doubt that she is up to the challenge of policing Salford and Eccles, with all the issues we face. She has also been given Trafford, so she now has double the number of people to look after and try to keep safe in our area, double the number of police officers to lead and double the number of police staff. She will be looking after 450,000 people, so her job is actually bigger than that of looking after the centre of Manchester, which has its own chief superintendent. I am worried about that. When we talk about the thin blue line being stretched, we also need to think about leadership capacity, because if we are to be creative and to do innovative things, we need really strong leadership. Chief Superintendent Mary Doyle, impressive though she is, will have her work cut out to try to take policing forward in our city.

What I think really needs to happen is something I raised with the Minister earlier. When we introduced neighbourhood policing, there was extra money available, so in some forces neighbourhood policing was layered on top of the existing response capacity. I hope that the Minister will consider integrating response policing with neighbourhood policing. Yes, we need response policing, because we need to have someone in a vehicle who can go and sort out a particular incident, but the way that they hand over the incident to the neighbourhood team is a misuse of resources. Getting the response police officers to own the neighbourhood as much as the neighbourhood police officers do would enable us to get more for less.

We recently decided to put our criminal investigation department officers out as part of the neighbourhood teams. That was incredibly controversial, because CID officers are not used to that role. However, it has made a really big difference, because our neighbourhood teams now include the people who are good at community and the CID detectives. If we get the response people in there as well, we will have a range of resources that we can draw upon, even when numbers are shrinking, to enable that extra capacity. I ask the Minister to look at some of the things Greater Manchester police have been doing to try to get that capacity to go further.

What I would say to central Government, and I say it to the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government, is that five years ago I said to the then Cabinet Secretary, Gus O’Donnell, that I was amazed that the success of a Cabinet Minister is judged by how big their budget is, how big their legislation is, and how big a beast they are in the Cabinet jungle. The new world requires people to be collaborative. Why do not several Cabinet Ministers have jointly shared budgets? Why are they not incentivised to collaborate? Why are they not judged on their success in terms of their ability to do teamwork? Why do we still have so many silos in central Government? When we said to local government, “You’ve got to break down your silos”, people there stepped up to the plate. It is about time that we changed the way in which national Government works so that my success as, say, Education Secretary is dependent on another Minister’s success as Justice Secretary or Home Secretary.

At the end of the day, the people who use the public services the most are all from the same families. We know this from the troubled families project, which is making a difference but is still primarily run by one Department. Why do we not have joint commissioning of the services we need to be able to deal with all those families? I could tell Members here and now the top 20 or 30 families in Salford and Eccles who use public services disproportionately, whether it be the police, education or the national health service. That is why we need joint commissioning systems, incentives to collaborate, and, I hope, an end to the days of stand-off bilaterals between Cabinet Ministers who simply seek to protect their own empire and their own Department rather than being prepared to collaborate for the greater good.

My final point is about reform. I am never short of ideas about reform and I like to talk about it. I remember that somebody once said that we are at our best when we are at our boldest, and I have never forgotten that. I make this plea to the Minister and to all Ministers involved in public services. If they want to get the best out of people and to get innovation and change, and if they want to get more for less, they have to be prepared to empower the people at the front line—the people in the service—to be able to make that change. There is a culture in Government—I do not make any allegation in respect of any individual Minister—of keeping power at the centre despite fine words about localism. It is about time that central Government acted in a way where they modelled good behaviour, as any good leader is required to do. If we want to survive these next few years, the funds are inevitably going to be less, whichever Government are in power, and therefore central Government must take a lead in being innovative, creative, collaborative and independent, just as on the board of any company where the directors would be collaborating together for the greater good. I urge the Minister to take that message back to the Home Secretary, and perhaps he could be the champion of innovation and change at the centre.

Dangerous Driving

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 27th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a great privilege to take part in this important debate. I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Kingswood (Chris Skidmore) for the thoughtful, comprehensive and moving way in which he opened the debate, which was a great credit to him and to the whole House.

On 8 January, I stood in this Chamber to present a ten-minute rule Bill on driving penalties, with all-party support. I presented that Bill on behalf of the community of Overton and the family of Robert James Gaunt, who was tragically killed in the village in October 2009. Robert Gaunt was a nine-year-old boy who was mowed down by a driver while crossing the road. The driver who hit Robert was unlicensed, uninsured and horribly irresponsible. Young Robert was killed. I want to highlight the case again because it shows clearly how the laws on driving offences are not in proportion to the crime. The driver hit Robert, killed him and drove away. He did not stop, he did not report the incident. Indeed, he returned home and re-sprayed his car. He took a life, he ran away and he tried to hide the evidence. In this case, the driver incurred a pitiful sentence of 22 months, with a four-year driving ban. He served only 10 months in jail.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Dudley North (Ian Austin) said, there are clear discrepancies with what would have happened had the car been a firearm. If the case had involved a gun, a knife or a baseball bat and a life was taken, it is highly likely that the sentence would have been vastly longer. In cases when death is caused by a weapon rather than a vehicle, sentences are much longer even when the act is not premeditated.

I recognise that a car is not a gun or a knife and I am not trying to claim that driving a car and carrying a firearm are the same thing. All I am saying is that although the use of a car is a necessity in our modern lives, especially in rural areas, that makes it all the more important that we review the situation. A car in the hands of someone irresponsible or dangerous can cause the same devastation as a firearm. A driver behind the wheel who is dangerous can cause as much damage as a pedestrian with a baseball bat, if not more. Ten months in jail for ending the life of a young boy is not right. It is not right when the deliberately dangerous actions of an individual are not treated seriously enough by the justice system.

My ten-minute rule Bill called on the Government to consider the maximum penalties for driving offences that lead to death or serious injury. Those who cause death by driving currently face a number of charges and a large range of sentences from mere months to 14 years. No driver has been given a 14-year term since Parliament first lengthened the maximum penalty from 10 years in 2004, and the law is clearly letting families down.

Such tragic cases have taken place all over the country. They do not stop at borders and they are not a rural, suburban or urban problem. This is a truly national problem with tragic consequences in all places. For instance, let us consider a similar incident suffered in the constituency that neighbours mine, Wrexham. My hon. Friend the Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) has kindly allowed me to bring it to the attention of the House on his behalf and I know that he is working diligently for the family.

A young woman lost her life after a driver decided to overtake another car at the end of a 70 mph dual carriageway. The driver in question braked hard when the road suddenly became a single carriageway, lost control of his vehicle and crashed head-on into a Ford that was being responsibly driven at 40 mph, considering the wet conditions that day. The driver of the Ford, Ms Christina Barchetti, suffered terrible injuries as her car was pushed through a wall into woodland. Ms Barchetti lost her life at the local hospital following the incident. She also lost the life of the unborn child that she was carrying at the time.

Such tragic cases happen around the country and I pay tribute to the campaigning organisation Brake, which has done so much to bring the issue to the attention of parliamentarians and Government. These cases speak for themselves, showing the devastation experienced by families when the rules of our roads are not taken seriously enough.

[Rebecca Harris (Castle Point) (Con)]

I support the hon. Lady’s speech, which strikes a chord with me. I have a constituent who lost her niece because someone who was medically unfit to drive, and knew that they were, continued to do so. I am concerned that there are occasions when people who do not consider themselves criminal or dangerous drivers, who have a previously good record and who have been warned that they are unfit continue to drive because they feel all right and cause death and serious injury. Does the hon. Lady agree that we need to review the sentences for those individuals, too, so the message is sent to them that it is a serious matter if one drives after being told that one is unfit to do so?

[Susan Elan Jones]

That is absolutely right. One purpose of today's debate is to ensure that any review of the guidelines is comprehensive and I thank the hon. Lady for raising that point.

Today, we are talking about the devastating results when drivers are dangerous, negligent or careless. When I presented my ten-minute rule Bill on the laws on driving, I was fully aware that no justice or consolation can be given to those families who have lost a loved one. The heartbreak experienced at the loss of a loved one cannot be cured by any debate in this House, but we can ensure that the laws in such cases reflect the crimes that we talk about.

[Rehman Chishti]

I pay tribute to the hon. Lady for the work that she has done on this matter. As regards ensuring that the sentence is commensurate to the injury caused, does she support what I have proposed in my private Member’s Bill on driving while disqualified? At the moment, causing death by driving while disqualified has a two-year maximum sentence, whereas causing death by dangerous driving has a 14-year maximum sentence. Does she agree that the sentence for causing death by driving while disqualified should increase significantly to reflect that for causing death by dangerous driving?

[Susan Elan Jones]

I certainly do, and I hope that the Sentencing Council is listening to the debate.

I urged the Government to review the sentencing guidelines for maximum penalties for driving offences that lead to death or serious injury. Today, Members are urging the Government to consider the laws on dangerous driving. It is clear that the law is not doing what it should be doing as regards driving offences. The rules and guidelines set out by the law mean that drivers who end the lives of innocent people on our roads sometimes have their sentences reduced to mere months.

The guidelines are terribly subjective and open to interpretation, and they hold back judges from making the decisions that, in all justice, need to be made. The average sentence served by drivers who kill or seriously injure another human being—a mother, father or child—while driving is 11 months. For the family of Robert Gaunt in Overton, of Christina Barchetti in Wrexham, or of any of the other people mentioned today, that is clearly not justice.

If we change the law and the sentencing guidelines are reformed properly, my hope is that it will not only bring some comfort to those who have lost treasured family members, but cause people who are uninsured, unlicensed or just frankly irresponsible to pause before they get behind a wheel.

[Bob Stewart]

I am really concerned about people being killed by dangerous driving. I very much support the idea that whatever the custodial sentence handed down to those drivers, if they have robbed someone of their life, through dangerous driving or stupidity, they should never in their life be given a driving licence.

[Susan Elan Jones]

I think the hon. Gentleman speaks for many who believe that there should be a thorough review in this area. When the Minister sums up, I would like clarity on the nature of any review that the Government will undertake. I would also like to know about the timing, because that is important. If there is a need for legislation, I hope that the Government will bring it forward, because, to put it as politely as I can, we do not have the fullest of legislative timetables, and I am sure that there would be co-operation.

Bearing in mind what the hon. Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland) said, we have to be careful not to limit the powers of the courts, and careful to look at maximum penalties, including, as the right hon. Member for Arundel and South Downs (Nick Herbert) said, bail conditions. It is striking that in the Chamber today, there are Members who would probably agree on very little else, politically. Outside the Chamber, too, cross-party, we know that something has to be done on this issue. There is a tremendous amount of evidence on that. The law is not doing enough to hold accountable those who take lives in this way, or to find justice for those let down by the system.

On behalf of families such as the Gaunts and the Barchettis, and countless others across the country, it is vital that we urge the Government to make this logical development to our system, and to consider what sentence is given for what crime. I know that none of this will bring back anybody whose life has been tragically lost in this way, but it is vital that we in Parliament, and the Government, do something to ensure that some measure of justice is done.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jeremy Wright]

We have striven to ensure that disqualifications, wherever they take place, are reflected in the knowledge of the courts here. I am sure that I will be able to give the hon. Gentleman more specific reassurance in writing, but I am confident that what he says is correct. I am sure that those of us on this side of the water would want to know about disqualifications on the other side.

[Susan Elan Jones]

When does the Minister expect the review to be completed? Given what he said earlier, may I ask whether there would be room in the legislative timetable if we needed to reconsider the maximum penalties?

[Jeremy Wright]

As I said earlier, the review of sentencing guidelines that the Sentencing Council has been asked to conduct is not a review of maximum penalties, which it would be for the Government to consider. The Government will certainly consider all that has been said today, including what has been said by Members on both sides of the House about maximum penalties. We would need to ensure that any work done by the Sentencing Council was co-ordinated with what the Government were doing.

We will, of course, make every effort to make legislative time available for measures that we believe are urgent. Having emerged blinking into the daylight from the usual channels into my current job, I know better than to commit parliamentary time for any purpose, but I will make every effort to ensure that when we believe that there is a good case for change, space will be found.

Even in the context of this very worthwhile debate, we should take account of figures released by the Department for Transport. According to those figures, between 2011 and 2012 the number of people killed in road accidents reported to the police fell by 7.7%, to 1,754. That is the lowest figure on record. The number of casualties fell by 4%, and there was also a fall in the number of people who were seriously injured. That does not, of course, mean that there is any room for complacency. Every death and every serious injury is a tragedy, and it remains vital for us to reduce the number of people who are killed and seriously injured on our roads. I agree with the hon. Member for Bolton West (Julie Hilling) that we must think about education as well as enforcement. There is a great deal more to be said about that, but it will not fit neatly within the confines of this debate.

As I have said, we are continuing to look closely at the legislative framework relating to serious driving offences, and we are considering whether the current maximum penalties reflect the seriousness of offending behaviour. I have listened carefully to what has been said this evening, and I will consider it all further. I entirely understand the calls for urgency that we heard from, for example, my hon. Friends the Members for Gloucester (Richard Graham) and for Leeds North West, but I am also conscious of what I consider to be the wise advice of my hon. Friend the Member for Rochford and Southend East. It is important for us to consider these matters in the round, and to do so in a way that does not create discrepancies in the sentencing system. We must ensure that we understand fully how we can adapt our sentencing practice to deal with cases such as the many terrible ones that have been raised this evening, and to deal fairly and sensibly with driving offences such as those that we have discussed.

I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the debate, and even more grateful for the excellent way in which Members have approached the subject. I will consider carefully what they have said.

Oral Answers to Questions

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Tuesday 8th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Policing and Criminal Justice (Damian Green)]

I completely agree with what my hon. Friend says, and it is why my right hon. Friend the Lord Chancellor has announced that simple cautions will no longer be available for those cases that must be heard in a Crown Court and for a range of other offences, such as possession of a knife, supplying class A drugs and a range of sexual offences against children. That is exactly the kind of toughening of the system that the public want to see.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

T6. In light of the announcement of a new prison for male prisoners in north Wales, will the Justice Secretary assure me that he will re-examine the provision for female prisoners, given the inordinate distance to travel to HMP Styal?

[Jeremy Wright]

I am going to sound like a stuck record at this rate, but I am afraid that I must tell the hon. Lady what I have told others earlier. She knows that we are looking at the female custodial estate, and one of the reasons why are doing so is, as she mentioned, the distances travelled by visitors, family and friends to visit people in custody. We will announce—in a relatively short time, I hope—what we intend to do, and she will see how we attempt to address the point she raises.