Fireworks: Public Sales

Susan Elan Jones Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2018 Westminster Hall

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr McCabe. It is good to see this issue being debated again following another public petition—I think this is the third time it has been debated in one form or another. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North (Helen Jones) on the thoughtful way in which she led the debate. I had the privilege of leading the debate on fireworks in January, when I was a member of the Petitions Committee.

One thing that strikes me, as it did in January, is that no Member who has spoken thinks everything is okay and there should be no change. Although people think that slightly different things should be done, absolutely nobody has backed the status quo. I therefore say to the Minister that, wherever we go next, there must be some sort of Government review of this issue. There is great concern about it in our communities and, clearly, among Members from all political parties.

I was intrigued by the start of the speech by the hon. Member for Henley (John Howell). All of us who spoke in the debate in January declared an undying love for the informal fireworks gatherings of our childhoods, so it was interesting to hear his case. Indeed, we could not have been more 1970s had we come through the door of the Chamber on space hoppers. We heard all about the Catherine wheels, traffic lights, sparklers and rockets, and about the jacket potatoes and soup. Incidentally, we did not always have a guy on the top of our bonfire, although I have seen the burning of the guy.

Those were certainly seen as informal community events. One of the big differences then was that everyone knew when bonfire night was—it happened every year on 5 November. There may have been more such informal displays, but we certainly almost never heard about antisocial behaviour such as arson or attacks on emergency services personnel. That never seemed to happen. It is not surprising that public reaction to this now is different, because I think the nature of the beast at hand is different too.

Many hon. Members today have raised the issue of animal welfare. I am not personally a dog or cat owner, but if I were, I would live in terror, given what it must be like for them every time there is a noise or a bang, or when someone thinks it is funny to have an informal display in the middle of the night. That causes clear distress for animals. I am not surprised that even those who want the most lenient of regulations want a firm commitment on reducing decibel levels. It is not just domestic pets that are affected; in rural areas, it is also livestock. Ten years ago, nobody batted an eyelid if a Chinese lantern went wherever—because it was our inalienable right to send up Chinese lanterns, which seemed to have an inalienable right to burn parts of farms and the like—but then the debate on that changed. In much the same way, what we are seeing with fireworks is a great change.

My hon. Friend the Member for Warrington North mentioned North Wales police and antisocial behaviour, and there have been multiple incidents. Often we see fireworks being used not merely in an obstructive, noisy, unpleasant and badly behaved sort of way, but deliberately against firefighters, the police and ambulance staff, as well as members of the general public. It is simply not acceptable. It is sometimes linked to other forms of violence or arson attacks. Clearly, this is not what informal community displays were supposed to be like.

I agree with my hon. Friend that there are clearly issues around enforcement. Our police and firefighters are dealing with many issues that arise from restricted budgets, and the chances are that dealing with people who are being a nuisance with rockets, noise and a bit of fire somewhere is probably not going to come high up the list of priorities.

One of the interesting issues raised when we discussed this last was the international comparisons. Some Members gave interesting examples. I remember hearing about one state in the United States that had extremely liberal gun laws but had banned all fireworks, including the humble sparkler. There may have been a right to bear arms, but there was not a right to bear sparklers. That may be a fairly extreme example, but it is an interesting case. There are many countries with different views on liberties and all the rest of it, but they recognise fireworks for the danger that they can pose.

I urge the Minister to have a proper review of the issue; it really is time for one. Many Members have had letters and emails, and constituents have raised the issue with us. We have seen debates in local and national newspapers and we have seen the strength of feeling with petitions like this one. I cannot remember anyone saying, “It’s great as it is at the moment. We think it’s absolutely fine. We think the law, as it applies to sales, is absolutely fine.” We all know perfectly well that even though one can make a case that the law as it applies to sales is fairly reasonable, what is not reasonable is that there is no limit whatsoever on the days when fireworks can be used. I know that the Minister will say that there are limits on the times, but then we come back to the issue of enforcement.

I hope that the Minister will take on board all the issues that have been raised in the debate and everything that the petitioners have said, as well as the variation of views. Some people may not agree 100% with the petitioners, but practically everyone wants a change in the law. I really hope that the Government will act.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank the hon. Lady for her thanks for my suggestion that we should have a meeting. However, as I say, I have been in this role since July, and before I commit to anything, I need to be confident of what we would achieve and how we would achieve it. I am sad to say that I will not use today as an opportunity to confirm what the hon. Lady has asked for, but I have open ears and an open mind on what hon. Members might want to highlight.

[Susan Elan Jones]

If I were to attend the meeting with the Minister, I would say to her that for me, the most important item is restricting to certain dates the use of fireworks outside of organised displays. I think that every Member would have a different view on that, but the reason I am going to push the Minister a bit further about a public consultation is that the more views we have, the more informed the Government will be.

[Kelly Tolhurst]

I thank the hon. Lady for her comments, but as I have highlighted, I will not commit to a consultation until I have met hon. Members, spoken with my officials, and worked out with them what the best way forward is. I will be quite frank: I am not for moving on that today. However, as I have highlighted, I have open ears and an open mind, and it is obvious from today’s debate that there is a range of differing views.

To highlight two elements of the debate, I support hon. Members on the question of the problems they have raised, and to pay tribute to our emergency services. We have heard about how our emergency services have been targeted, with people using fireworks in a criminal way against those charged with protecting us. Like anyone listening to the debate and to the stories that hon. Members have recounted, I think it is disgusting that anyone working in the emergency services might be threatened with fireworks, even on a firework night. That is totally disgusting, and I share hon. Members’ concerns about that.

I will also highlight hon. Members’ concerns about animal welfare. We have heard personal stories about hon. Members’ pets and the disastrous things that have happened to horses, and I can recount stories from years ago. I was pleased to hear that the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) did not have a story about a hamster, and it was nice to hear about her father and his desire to have fireworks in their yard. My father would not, because the Catherine wheels that were available in the 1970s, when I was small, were dangerous: half of them did not finish or go off. Product safety has moved on significantly in the past 30 years, and although we are still targeting people who use fireworks incorrectly, the products have improved vastly. We recognise people’s concerns about their pets and animals, but it is a difficult debate.

We have heard that we should move people to public displays, rather than their having fireworks in their garden. However, we have heard complaints about public displays as well as informal ones, so the question of what people want is complex. There are many differing opinions, and we will have to make judgments about how far we need to go and what the right balance is. Legislation and enforcement always involves a balance: ensuring both that people’s rights are protected and consumers are safe, and that people are able to enjoy the things that I am sure everyone loves about fireworks.