Youth Programmes and Girlguiding

Stuart Andrew Excerpts

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport (Stuart Andrew)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir George, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Dame Caroline Dinenage) for securing this important debate. I also thank the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) and my right hon. Friends the Members for New Forest East (Sir Julian Lewis) and for Romsey and Southampton North (Caroline Nokes), who have spoken in the debate and collared me on these issues when they can. Others have not been able to contribute but share their passion, including Mr Deputy Speaker, the right hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr Evans), and the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies).

A thriving youth sector is a critical part of so much that my Department and the whole of Government are hoping to achieve for young people. Approximately 85% of a young person’s waking hours are spent outside school, and it is during this time that thousands of youth workers and volunteers make a tremendous difference to young people’s lives, as my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport mentioned. They provide early intervention, help to reduce pressures on other public services and build trusted relationships, enabling young people to achieve their ambitions.

I was recently fortunate enough to visit a National Citizen Service residential in Doncaster and see how transformational youth services can be. The impact that such activities and trusted relationships provide cannot be underestimated. The young people told me at first hand that they felt more confident and had overcome some of their personal fears, developed new skills and made new friends, sometimes with people from backgrounds they had never mixed with before. All this gets amplified around the country, and I thank the volunteers involved.

I know that many right hon. and hon. Members present will have been disappointed to learn that Girlguiding has decided to sell its five activity centres in the UK and cease overseas operations. Having seen at first hand the benefits that young people can gain by participating in programmes hosted by organisations such as Girlguiding, I share that disappointment. However, as Members will know, Girlguiding is an independent organisation and its board of trustees has a fiscal responsibility to take decisions in the organisation’s best interests in order to secure its future and the safety of its members. The board tells us that it has not taken the decision lightly. That said, I understand the disappointment about the lack of consultation, which would enable people to make their views known.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

I fully recognise that this matter falls outside the Minister’s responsibilities, but does he agree that where millions of pounds appear to have been fire-hosed away from the objectives of the organisation, and where there is clearly a lack of internal democratic accountability, we have to look to the Charity Commission as a last resort to see whether the mismanagement can, even now, be limited in its terrible effects?

[Stuart Andrew]

My right hon. Friend raises a very important point. Of course, as a registered charity, Girlguiding is obliged to do the usual reporting. Anybody can raise any case with the Charity Commission, and colleagues may feel that they want to take that step.

I will outline a bit more what we have heard from Girlguiding. I understand that its decision to close the five activity centres is due to the significant capital investment required to ensure that they are fit for purpose, but it also reflects the ongoing running costs in the light of low levels of demand from Girlguiding groups. It is anticipated that funds from the sale of the activity centres, valued collectively at around £10 million, will be invested in a range of activities to support the future of Girlguiding and its members, including adventures away from home.

[Dame Caroline Dinenage]

I am sorry for interrupting the Minister, but does he agree that looking at the use of the sites as we come out of a period of a pandemic, when everything has been locked down, is incredibly short-sighted? Anyone with any modicum of business sense would be looking at how the organisation can attract a new audience. In my constituency, the number of youngsters joining scouting organisations is at a higher level than ever before. There is huge appetite among young people to get out there and join these sorts of activities. Should Girlguiding not be looking forward more broadly and more optimistically, rather than judging things based on what has happened over the last couple of years, which has obviously involved a completely unusual series of events?

[Stuart Andrew]

I will come shortly to what I propose to do after this debate. First, I want to address Girlguiding’s decision to cease overseas operations. Girlguiding says that is due to the complexity of providing Girlguiding’s board of trustees with appropriate reassurances on both the safety of members and the integrity of operations, in line with its legal responsibilities, across 36 countries and territories. Operations in the middle east, Africa, Asia and Europe ended on 1 September, and operations in the British overseas territories will cease at the end of the year.

My officials are in regular contact with Girlguiding, alongside colleagues from the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office and the Ministry of Defence. They have been exploring Girlguiding’s options for units in the British overseas territories and military bases to continue operating. We remain hopeful that a solution can be found to support this work and to ensure that the guiding experience in these locations continues in a way that is consistent with Girlguiding’s decisions about what is appropriate for the organisation.

My Department and I absolutely recognise the benefit that Girlguiding brings to girls and young women. That is why, as part of the national youth guarantee’s uniformed youth fund, we have provided Girlguiding with over £2 million to create more opportunities to take part in Girlguiding. Girlguiding has already created over 1,000 new places, recruited hundreds of new volunteers and opened 40 new units, with more to come.

I know that many hon. Members here today will join me in thanking Girlguiding for what it is doing. My Department and I have been in regular contact with Girlguiding, but I will ensure that I write to Girlguiding to highlight this debate today and the contributions of hon. Members. I will then happily send them a copy of the response that we receive.

My hon. Friend the Member for Gosport also asked me to highlight what we as a Government are doing. It is important to do that, because ensuring that all young people have access to youth services is a top priority for both me and the Secretary of State. In 2021, we undertook the youth review to ensure that our spending and programmes were aligned with the needs of young people. In response, we are investing over £500 million in delivering the national youth guarantee, and our commitment is that by 2025 every young person in England will have access to regular out-of-school activities, adventures away from home—we recognise how important they are—and opportunities to volunteer.

To realise the ambitious aims of the national youth guarantee, we are investing in a few key programmes. We are creating or redeveloping up to 300 youth facilities through the youth investment fund. Over £160 million has already gone out of the door, supporting 87 organisations to give thousands more young people access to opportunities in their community.

We have also reformed the National Citizen Service programme into a year-round offer, so that thousands of young people who have signed up to the new programme will be ready for work and ready for the world. We recognise the benefits of greater join-up between formal education and the youth sector, for example. With the Department for Education, we are expanding the Duke of Edinburgh award scheme, which my hon. Friendó the Member for Gosport mentioned, in schools and communities. Over 400 new organisations have already started delivering the programme, giving more than 70,000 young people the opportunity to challenge themselves, support their communities and learn vital new skills.

We are also supporting uniformed youth organisations to recruit more volunteers, so that they can sustainably increase their capacity. Almost 3,000 young people already have a new place in an existing group or in one of the 144 new groups that have been established. Alongside that, the National Lottery Community Fund is continuing to invest in the #iwill fund, to help thousands of young people to make a difference in their communities through social action.

We recognise that there is a lot of work to do and that there is a tremendous amount—

[Caroline Nokes]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister for giving way. The subject of my intervention is perhaps not entirely relevant to what he has just been saying, but I feared that he was coming to the end of his remarks.

My right hon. Friend the Minister has spoken about his work with the Department for Education. May I ask what connection there has been between his Department and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities? There is a real concern in the New Forest about holiday lets, which my right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East mentioned. With these sites that we have been discussing, I note that at least three of them—Snowdonia, the Peak District and the New Forest—are national parks. There is a real fear that properties in those sites will end up as luxury holiday lodges, thus restricting the ability of young people from disadvantaged communities to get out into our national parks. Has there been any discussion or consultation on issues such as the Caravan Sites Act 1968, which is of particular concern to the New Forest National Park Authority? Is the Minister prepared to discuss with colleagues across Government what can be done specifically to protect those sites from that sort of unwanted development in our national parks?

[Stuart Andrew]

My right hon. Friend will appreciate that I cannot make a commitment to stray into those areas of work, but I will absolutely and happily raise with my colleagues in DLUHC the issue that she brought up. I know that it was a big issue when I held that post for a short time, but I recognise that there will be concerns locally about what will happen to those sites. I will happily address those concerns to my hon. Friends in that Department.

[Sir Julian Lewis]

I will take the opportunity to stress that when Girlguiding UK says that only 10% of the movement uses the five centres, we are still talking about tens of thousands of young people. The response to the situation has been not, “We have to close one centre in order to subsidise the others”, but, “We have to close the whole lot while simultaneously losing millions upon millions of pounds on inappropriate investment in property hotel ventures.” That has to be questioned. The reason for donating Foxlease to Girlguiding 101 years ago was not so that it could be used for commercial development; it was donated to be used by young people.

[Sir George Howarth (in the Chair)]

Order. I need to bring the Minister back in now. We are very short of time.

[Stuart Andrew]

Thank you, Sir George. One of the challenges of trying to answer a debate about a decision made by an independent organisation is that there are limits to what I am able to say. That is why I made a commitment at the beginning to highlight the concerns of hon. Members. My right hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East raises another valid point, and I will ensure that his question is in the letter that I send. As I promised, he will receive a reply.

Youth services and organisations such as Girlguiding provide an essential service for young people and communities. As a Department, we are committed to ensuring that all young people in England have access to regular clubs and activities, to those important adventures away from home and to opportunities to volunteer. To deliver the services that young people want and deserve, a partnership must happen between central and local government, the private sector, young people themselves—crucially—and the great organisations that have provided so much. I recognise the strength of feeling raised in this debate. I have made the commitment to write to the organisation and highlight those issues, because I recognise that this concerns all the Members I mentioned at the beginning of the debate.

Question put and agreed to.