Ukraine

Debate between Stephen Pound and John Whittingdale

Wednesday 20th December 2017 Westminster Hall

[Mr Whittingdale]

That is a very important point and I absolutely agree with my hon. Friend. He is more knowledgeable than I on Russian hybrid warfare, and this is undoubtedly a component. I am sure he will say a little more about that in his contribution.

While there are still big problems, we should recognise that progress has been made. In the last three or four years, the Ukrainian Government have set up three institutions to tackle corruption—the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine, the Specialized Anti-Corruption Prosecutor’s Office and the National Agency for Prevention of Corruption—which have brought something like 319 proceedings.

The Ukrainian Government have also brought in an advanced electronic system for the disclosure of assets, income and expenditure of public officials and politicians, which has led to 910,000 declarations from top officials. I have to say that I have seen the declaration requirements on Ukrainian MPs, and they go considerably further than the declaration requirements on Members of this House. There have also been reforms to public procurement.

However, while progress is being made, there are worrying signs that it is now stalling. While proceedings have been brought against public officials, none have really come to a conclusion; indeed, most are stuck somewhere in the judicial system. An anti-corruption court, which is an essential part of the reform package, has yet to be put in place. We heard on our visit to a non-governmental organisation, Reanimation Package of Reforms, that something like 25% of the recent appointments to the Supreme Court, which has been newly established with a fresh set of judges, failed the integrity test.

There is huge frustration among the people of Ukraine that no one has really been brought to justice, either for the crimes committed during the Maidan or for the massive theft of public assets that has been going on for many years. Most recently, and perhaps most worryingly, Reanimation Package of Reforms has identified the fact that the National Anti-Corruption Bureau has been attacked in Parliament, with attempts to curtail its operation through legislation. Its operations have also been disrupted by the Ukrainian security services, which are probably acting on behalf of the Government.

Those are worrying signs, and we must press the Ukrainian Government to continue with their reform package. That is essential if the Government are to re-establish confidence in Ukraine, which will unlock the investment that will give it an economically viable future.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

I am reluctant to interrupt the right hon. Gentleman’s flow; he speaks with such authority that he commands the respect of the Chamber. In terms of our bilateral relationship on anti-corruption and good governance, does the right hon. Gentleman agree that a great deal of the UK’s credibility at the moment comes from our being a member of the EU? If, possibly, we withdraw from the EU, how will we be able to maintain that relationship? What does he think a post-Brexit bilateral relationship between Ukraine and the UK might look like?

[Mr Whittingdale]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, I do not share his views about our membership of the EU. The requirement is on all the western nations. The truth is that the biggest contributor to the future stability of Ukraine in both military and financial assistance is likely to be the United States of America. Canada, too, is playing an extremely important role. Yes, the EU is involved, but a country does not have to be a member of the EU to want to help Ukraine. I hope we will put together assistance packages in order to do that, and that is almost bound to be led by America. That should apply during our remaining time in the EU and also when we have left.

There is an interesting proposal from the Lithuanian Parliament, and I met Mr Andrius Kubilius, the former Prime Minister of Lithuania, to discuss it. It proposes what is essentially a new Marshall plan—a massive investment package—but it can only be contemplated if it is accompanied by the kind of reforms that I think everybody who looks at Ukraine, and its people, most of all, want to see.

UK Relations with Ukraine

Debate between Stephen Pound and John Whittingdale

Tuesday 10th December 2013 Westminster Hall

[Mr Whittingdale]

I shall return to both issues; I agree with the hon. Lady that those are desirable objectives, but there is a more immediate, pressing concern about how the protesters are treated. Their human rights are important at this time. We must not see a repetition of the kind of violence that has been committed by special forces against people. The scenes of people lying on the ground being beaten with batons by 50 or more riot policemen as they ran past were wholly unacceptable. Concerns have been expressed that provocateurs have been placed among the protesters, and that that may precipitate a decision to declare some kind of state of emergency. All of that would mean that Ukraine would slip backwards. I want to hear from the Minister a strong message from the British Government that human rights and peaceful protest must be respected, and that we cannot see any kind of repetition of the violence that has taken place in the past few days.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

As someone who was with the hon. Gentleman in Yerevan when we heard the news, I know exactly where he is coming from. Does he agree that the UK Government have persistently and consistently supported Ukrainian EU accession, so we have a moral obligation to those suffering in Ukraine at the moment? Just as the sound of the crowds of protesters outside this building can be heard in the Chamber, the sounds arising from Independence square must be heard across the world, especially in Europe.

[Mr Whittingdale]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. It is right that representatives of the EU and the United States Administration are in Kiev and will do what they can to calm the situation and find a way forward.

I understand that through the intervention of former Presidents Kravchuk, Kuchma and Yushchenko, talks are taking place with civil society groups and the opposition. That is certainly a much more promising way forward than the reported decision to use force, but the crisis is by no means past. It is important that clear messages go out from European Governments. In particular, I look to my right hon. Friend the Minister to make it clear that we cannot tolerate any violent activity of that kind.