Champions League Final: Paris

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Monday 6th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Huddleston]

As the hon. Lady has articulated, and as we are hearing again and again from colleagues in the Chamber today, the specific evidence just does not tally with some of the comments that we heard immediately following or during the match. The overwhelming evidence is of fans behaving incredibly well and in a civilised way. They are therefore blameless, but were treated then with a disproportionately aggressive response. I do not want to pre-empt the conclusions of the investigation, but what I have seen so far raises many questions, and we will be keeping an incredibly close eye on this, as I have said. I appreciate her comments.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

Let us be clear: the events in Paris were utterly appalling, but they are all too emblematic of the complete and utter disdain with which football fans are treated, both at home and, indeed, abroad. Hopefully, this will be a simple question for the Minister. In the discussions that he has had with UEFA since, has it shown any remorse? Does it even care?

Walter Smith OBE: Contribution to Scottish Football

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Wednesday 17th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Brendan O’Hara]

I do think that. There is a phrase that we use in this place an awful lot, which is that there is an awful lot more that unites us than divides us. I think people always look for the divisions rather than the things that unite us.

Walter Smith was born into a football-daft household on 24 February 1948. He grew up in Carmyle in the east end of Glasgow and, from a young age, every other week, his dad took him to see Rangers—Cambuslang Rangers who played just over the other side of the water from where he grew up. Walter never shared his dad’s passion for junior football, and soon it was he and his grandfather who were regular attenders at Ibrox to see his heroes Don Kitchenbrand and Johnny Hubbard turn out for the city’s other Rangers.

The young Smith was not a bad player himself and, after a short spell in junior football with Ashfield, he was signed by Dundee United in the summer of 1966, making 108 appearances in nine years on Tayside.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

I thank my colleague for giving way. My constituents will be wondering why I have jumped up at the mention of Dundee United, and the truth is now out. I am sure that he will go on to mention this, but Walter Smith wrote himself into Dundee United folklore on 14 May 1983 when the ball sailed over Kelly’s head and Dundee United won the League. Walter was, of course, Jim McLean’s assistant at that moment in time, and I am sure that my colleague would like to pay tribute to that wonderful victory.

[Brendan O’Hara]

Yes, I will and then I will come on to how Walter began his managerial career with a remarkable conversation with Jim McLean.

Walter had what one would call a respectable career as a footballer, but I think it would be fair to say that his time at Dundee United provided little clue as to what lay ahead. The arrival of Jim McLean as manager of Dundee United in 1971 was to have a profound effect on his career—initially for the worse—as the new manager decided that he was surplus to requirements and sold him to Dumbarton. Possibly with an eye to the future, Jim McLean brought Walter back to Tannadice two years later, but a bad injury severely limited his United appearances. Walter spent more time working and playing with the reserve team than with the first team. It was his work with the reserve team that caught the attention of Jim McLean and indeed the SFA, which, in 1978, asked Walter to assist in the running of the Scotland under-18 team, which went on to win the European Youth Championship in 1982.

Walter also caught the eye of another young Scottish manager, Alex Ferguson, who on being appointed boss at Aberdeen, phoned Jim McLean to see whether he could approach Walter to be his assistant at Pittodrie. His request was somewhat robustly refused—anyone who knows Jim McLean will understand that. Perhaps it was that realisation that Walter was gaining a reputation that finally persuaded Jim McLean to have that life-changing conversation in 1980—a conversation that Walter often recalled. He described Wee Jim pulling him aside, saying, as only Wee Jim could, “Walter, at some stage in your career, you’ve got to face up to the fact of how good you are, and let’s face it, Walter, you are shite, but I think you’ve got a real talent as a coach, so would you be my coach?” As Walter said himself,

“It was hardly a marriage proposal”,

but it was one that he accepted anyway. It was an offer that took a journeyman footballer on an expedition that would lead to the very top of the managerial profession.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Consideration of Lords amendments
Monday 8th November 2021 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

The key remark that the Minister made there was that it “could be” considered. We have seen the Government’s failures previously in relation to Huawei, so why should we have confidence moving forward that this will be any different?

[Julia Lopez]

I appreciate the hon. Member’s comments. When the Secretary of State is looking to designate a vendor, she will put that to the House to be scrutinised, and we will be scrutinised on this issue through the usual procedures that I have outlined in my previous comments.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Flynn]

I am delighted to follow the hon. Member for Solihull (Julian Knight), although now I am really interested to know whether he prefers a curry or a pizza. When I came into the debate, I did not expect that to be the topic of discussion.

I am very conscious of time, and I know that a number of people on the Back Benches would like to make contributions to this incredibly important debate. However, I will take the opportunity to set out the SNP’s views on Lords amendments 4 and 5 and, importantly, briefly to reflect on why we are in the situation that we are in. Actually, that kind of ties in to Lords amendment 5: it is because of the mess that the Government have created in relation to Huawei.

When I first came into the House—pre-pandemic, of course—one of the biggest issues being discussed was the situation with Huawei and the flip-flopping that the Government were doing. I respectfully suggest that, in relation to Lords amendment 5, it is almost akin to the fact that they have learned nothing. There is an opportunity before them to ensure that they work with key intelligence partners, as the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) said, to ascertain where the biggest threat sits. But rather than take cognisance of what has been said in the other place, they are simply saying that the plan, as they have it at this moment in time, is good enough. That, from my perspective, simply does not cut it, especially, as we have heard, when some £2 billion has already been wasted on this debacle, notwithstanding the economic impact of being so many years behind in the roll-out of 5G itself. That, in many senses, covers Lords amendment 5.

On Lords amendment 4 and diversification, I will not repeat the exact detail of the amendment because that was done so eloquently by the shadow Minister, but I was a little bit surprised at what the Minister said. If I got the scope of it correctly, she was saying that Lords amendment 4 is far too narrow and would make the Government’s life too difficult. However, the amendment did not seem to suggest that when I cast my eyes on it. In fact, if I read it correctly, in the other place the Government’s position was that the framework was already sufficient, so the Government do not even seem to have clarity between the other place and this place on their actual position. I do not think that that is necessarily a surprise, because they are just looking for a reason not to back an incredibly helpful amendment.

Those are the views of the SNP on the two more contentious amendments. I look forward to the Minister perhaps providing the clarity that the Government have not been able to provide so far. I also look forward to hearing what our esteemed Back Benchers have to say on these matters.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow all the Back-Bench speeches so far.

I would like to blaze in capital letters what the Minister said:

“This is, first and foremost, a national security Bill.”

Something very similar was said when the National Security and Investment Bill—now the National Security and Investment Act 2021—was going through this House and the other place earlier this year. The Intelligence and Security Committee is, as it always has been, a non-partisan organisation. I will therefore be saying some things to please and, probably, to annoy both sides.

The Committee considered the five amendments at a recent meeting. We agreed that the entirety of Lords amendments 1 to 3 was broadly beneficial. We looked at Lords amendment 5 and we understood the temptation to flag up the importance of the Five Eyes relationship. We agreed—it is interesting how closely our deliberations, without consultation, conformed to the views of the Chairman of the Digital, Culture, Media and Sport Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Solihull (Julian Knight)—that it was, as he put it, a case of gilding the lily, because whenever a serious objection is raised on security grounds by one of the Five Eyes partners, we take that with the utmost seriousness. That leaves us with Lords amendment 4. For the life of us, we cannot understand why the Government are opposing it. We believe it would strengthen parliamentary scrutiny and provide a valuable annual stocktake on the progress being made on the diversification strategy and how it is helping to improve national security. Therefore, like the Chairman of our parallel Committee, I will not be voting against Lords amendment 4 tonight.

Where does that leave us as a Committee in terms of the two Bills and the amendments thereto? You may recall, Mr Deputy Speaker, that there have been intense arguments both in this place and in the upper House about the failure of the Government to accept amendments that would allow the Intelligence and Security Committee to scrutinise closely the secret aspects that are inevitably involved in those two Bills. I will not digress on this both because I lack time and because you, Mr Deputy Speaker, would instantly call me to order. I will simply say, on ensuring that there is ISC scrutiny of the classified elements that follow from this legislation, that arguments have been advanced by the Government in the other place to say, “Well, the face of the Bill isn’t the place to do it.” We agree with that now; we are taking the Government at their word. Therefore, we have written to the National Security Adviser and asked him to take up the issue with the Prime Minister, so that the memorandum of understanding between the Prime Minister and the ISC can be brought up to date to cater for the provisions of this Bill and the earlier Bill that should be part of our purview. That is what the Government promised in 2013 when the legislation was originally put through, for our Committee’s powers, and it is a promise that we expect them to keep.

Telecommunications (Security) Bill

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Report stage & 3rd reading
Tuesday 25th May 2021 Commons Chamber

The National Security and Investment Act would have been lost entirely at the end of the last Session if the upper House had insisted once again on our amendments providing for proper ISC scrutiny. We were not then, and we are not now, in the business of seeking to scupper legislation that helps to safeguard our national security, but that does not mean that this serious scrutiny gap can be left unresolved. In our forthcoming annual report, we shall therefore ask the Prime Minister to agree an update to the ISC’s memorandum of understanding, in order for it explicitly to include oversight of these matters. I trust that by the time we lay our report before the House, we shall finally be able to announce a positive outcome.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure, once again, to follow the Chair of the ISC, the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), as I did during the passage of the National Security and Investment Bill. He speaks with great wisdom and experience on these matters, and the Minister would do well to heed such advice from his Back Benches. It is also a pleasure to follow the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah), who also speaks with great experience in this field. I have been fortunate enough to sit on a number of Bill Committees with her, and it is clear that telecommunications is very much her forte.

Let us consider the Bill in a wider context, before I drill down on the new clauses. We are essentially looking at foreign investment in our critical, national infrastructure. In real terms this is not a new thing. We are all aware, I hope, of the ISC report from 2013 on that very matter, and Huawei, and its role within our infrastructure, did not necessarily come as a surprise to anyone. I read the Bill’s Second Reading with much interest. The Labour party was trying extremely hard to absolve itself of any blame in that regard, which made for light entertainment over the past evenings. Of course, the Government are just as complicit in that regard, and complicit with a small c, because they were not necessarily looking at things with the view that they have now.

From my experience in this House, the Government have not covered themselves in glory when it comes to this topic. When I came into this place in 2019, one of the first key issues that was talked about—aside from Brexit, of course—was Huawei’s role within the UK, and we have seen the Government flip-flop from one view to another. It is testament to the hard work of many Government Members that they got the Government to realise just how serious this topic is and, indeed, was in years gone by.

Although there are concerns, the only thing that has really changed in the many years since 2013 is the seriousness with which the Government are treating this matter, and that seriousness extends to my colleagues and me. As my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) made clear on Second Reading and in Committee, we are supportive of the Government’s efforts in this regard, as we were with the National Security and Investment Bill, but there are a couple of areas where the Government still need to provide a level of assurance. Notwithstanding the remarks that have rightly been made in relation to scrutiny by the ISC, importantly we need to be clear that the Government are going to pick up the tab in Scotland for all the equipment that will now be made surplus to requirements. We cannot have a situation where that is not the case, because it is their actions that have led to the situation we are in. We also need to ensure that the replacement strategy is both safe and secure, so that we do not find ourselves in a situation such as this ever again.

Notwithstanding the justified security concerns that we all have, perhaps the key thing lies in and around the issue of telecommunications. As was referenced by the shadow Minister, although not in the same detail, there are around 1 million people in rural Scotland who do not even have access to 4G. Of course, telecommunications is reserved to the UK Government—it is the responsibility of the Under-Secretary of State for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Matt Warman), and he will be cognisant of the fact that the 4G roll-out has not been as good as it should be. We all want to see the 5G roll-out, to ensure that we are in as advanced a position as possible, but we must ensure that the same mistakes are not repeated. I would certainly welcome assurances from the Minister in that regard.

That leads me to the SNP’s amendment 1, which seeks to ensure that the Government consult in full with the Governments in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is vital that we have that link and that, while we remain a part of the United Kingdom, the UK Government work in partnership with the Scottish Government on such serious matters.

It will come as no surprise to the Minister that we are supportive of the new clauses tabled by Labour on ensuring that there is diversification, that there is parliamentary oversight and scrutiny, and that the ISC plays a key role. I would like to hear from its Members that they are equally supportive of the view that the devolved Administrations should play a key role in telecommunications.

[Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)]

It is always a pleasure to return to old arguments and ensure that they are still live, and I intend to do just that. From the beginning, I have supported the process and initiative taken by the Government; it was not without struggles early on. I do not intend to go into the details, but I will refer to them. Back in 2019 and early 2020, it became quite a battle over whose advice was better. It seemed to me at the time—and, in a way, I do not blame the Government for this—that the National Cyber Security Centre gave the Government poor advice about the security risk, which was tempered by the Government’s need to go ahead and get 5G moving.

That is always the problem that we face. If organisations are to give Government advice on security risks, it must be completely separated on the basis that that is their advice; they must not temper it to suit the Government. We have seen that happen all the way through—it is not just this particular Government. They have made the right decision, and I will come back to that, but if we go back, this has happened also with Labour Governments and Conservative Governments of the past. Successive Governments have underestimated the growing risk that is coming particularly from China, but also from other countries. They were already aware of the risk from Russia.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Flynn]

I am a strong believer that brevity is a great charm of eloquence, so that is a statement that would be well taken on board by the shadow Minister in future. I was hoping for a power cut in Newcastle—I am being kind.

First, I place on record my thanks to my hon. Friend the Member for Gordon (Richard Thomson) for his partaking in the debate on Second Reading. He did us a great service in that regard. I also thank Josh Simmonds-Upton in our research team, who put a great deal of effort into the Bill.

This is a Bill that we will support. We will give it close scrutiny moving forward, and I hope that the Government will work on good terms with the Scottish Government moving forward in this regard.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read the Third time and passed.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I am going to suggest that as we go through the next motions, the Serjeant at Arms sanitises just the Government Dispatch Box in order for us to save a little time.

Online Harms Consultation

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Tuesday 15th December 2020 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

Yes, my hon. Friend is absolutely right. There seems to be a degree of complacency from some Opposition Members about the scale of the fines we are proposing. We have never before proposed fining tech firms up to 10% of global turnover. That is an enormous sum for them, and it gives real teeth and credibility to what we are doing.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

A constituent of mine in Aberdeen has been in contact to say that in recent months they have had to respond to three instances of children in primary school accessing Pornhub on mobile phones. I am sure the Secretary of State shares my profound concern about that, but we do not want warm words; we want action, so will he confirm if and when online age verification checks will finally be put in place?

[Oliver Dowden]

As a father of primary-age children, I share the hon. Gentleman’s complete outrage that that is possible. This legislation will address exactly that. A site like Pornhub will fall within the scope of this legislation, because it has a large amount of user-generated content, and we will expect it to take appropriate measures to safeguard children from accessing the site. If it fails to do so, it will face severe consequences.

5G Network

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Tuesday 24th November 2020 Westminster Hall

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Eagle. It is important to congratulate the right hon. Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) on bringing forward this debate. It is clearly a matter that he knows a significant amount about, and he spoke incredibly passionately, particularly about what could be achieved in and around Wales and the north-east. In silicon chips and, I think, semiconductors, he used turns of phrase that I had not heard before. He certainly educated me in that regard, which I will definitely take away from this debate, if nothing else. I am sure that my dad, an engineer, will be delighted about that. He spent many years trying to educate me on these things when I was younger, to no success whatsoever. The hon. Member for Wakefield (Imran Ahmad Khan) raised some incredibly important matters, which I will come to in due course.

First, on interconnectivity, we have all been particularly reliant on the ability to contact people virtually during the pandemic, and a great deal of this House at this moment in time operates virtually, albeit not enough. This has shown us the reliance that we now have on technology. We should be willing to embrace the further betterment of technology, be that with 5G or otherwise, to improve all our standards of living.

I was quite surprised by the number of people here to talk about Huawei, because it is usually a matter that garners much attention, particularly in the Chamber, but there we are none the less. The points raised were incredibly important. The best way to sum them up is the fact that it was a particularly sorry episode for the Government. The to-ing and fro-ing that took place was not necessary, particularly when we were all aware that Huawei was deemed to be a high-risk vendor. I am sure that, if the Government had their time back, they would probably do things differently. That is one of the pitfalls of government, I suppose. I see a wry smile on the Minister’s face.

Obviously, the debate relates to the potential of 5G, particularly for business. That potential is enormous, be that for health, transport or climate change. We are not talking only about better connectivity on our mobile phones, as some may believe. I will briefly reflect on climate change. There are two sides to that debate. There are those who believe that 5G working in the manner in which it should will ultimately increase energy usage, because we will do more and see more much more quickly. On the contrary, we can also seek to combat climate change by doing things in a more efficient and effective manner, a goal that we all must aim for, particularly when looking at 5G moving forward and how we can tie that into the climate change challenges that face us in Scotland, the UK or across the globe. That should really be at the heart of most of the things that we seek to do going forward.

Ultimately, when it comes to 5G, telecommunications is a reserved matter. I wish, like all policy matters, that it sat in the remit of the Scottish Parliament. We have not quite reached that stage yet—“yet” being the operative word—but we will get there. [Interruption.] I hear some sniggering at the back, but we will get there. However, until that moment, telecommunications is reserved, and from Scotland’s perspective we are very much at the behest of the UK Government and the avenues that they seek to go down.

As the UK Government progress with this matter, it is incredibly important that we take into account the specific geography of Scotland. As the Minister’s parliamentary private secretary, the hon. Member for Berwickshire, Roxburgh and Selkirk (John Lamont), will be acutely aware, 42% of Scotland does not even have access to 4G. On my way to the Aberdeen airport today, I lost 5G signal on numerous occasions while going round the city—although not when going through the city; I believe that there is some 5G enablement within the city. We need to be mindful of the geographical challenges across the entire UK as we move forward with this matter.

It is important that investment—be it from the Government or the private sector—seeks to benefit everyone and that nobody misses out. Climate change will be key, but those rural communities across Scotland and the rest of the United Kingdom must also get the connectivity that they so badly deserve. Ultimately, while we need to ensure that nobody misses out, we also need to make sure that security and resilience are at the forefront of everything that we do when it comes to 5G and ensuring better interconnectivity within Scotland and the UK.

Sport Sector: Financial Support

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Thursday 19th November 2020 Commons Chamber

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend for those comments. We have talked about football many times, and I appreciate his support. The support announced today is for national league steps 1 to 2 to the tune of up to £11 million and national league steps 3 to 6 of up to £14 million. The more grassroots level is not supported in this package, but, as he mentioned, the route to get support is through Sport England and other packages such as the Football Foundation’s grants, which have helped clubs get back up to speed and ready for reopening. I am happy to continue those conversations with him.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

Football gives hope and joy to millions, just as we saw last week when big Davie Marshall dived to his left-hand side to send Scotland to our first European championships since 1996. For that hope and joy to persist, we need our football clubs in Scotland to exist. Will the Minister explain why £97 million-worth of cultural funding has been made available to Scotland through Barnett consequentials but we have yet to see a single penny of direct funding to support Scottish professional football clubs?

UK Telecommunications

Stephen Flynn Excerpts

Tuesday 14th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[Oliver Dowden]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point. Of course the Chancellor was at the National Security Council when we were discussing this, clearly in order to facilitate the open RAN solution that will require investment from the Government, but that will be a matter for the Chancellor at a future fiscal event.

[Stephen Flynn (Aberdeen South) (SNP)]

The Secretary of State has been particularly clear that Huawei will not be asked to deliver the UK’s 5G network, but he has been conspicuously quiet in relation to when the 5G network will now be complete across the UK. So can he clarify for me and for Members across the Chamber: when will 5G be delivered across the United Kingdom, and at what cost?

[Oliver Dowden]

We set out our position in the manifesto, but as a consequence of these decisions things have changed. I have been very frank and up front with the House about this. The consequence of the decision to stop the flow of Huawei equipment into 5G and to set a very firm date for 2027 and the pathway to that will add two to three years to the delivery time.